Whose in....no 2 GB RAM, no 6s?

[C DM]

OK, well it is proven that the iPhone 5S, 6 and 6+ have less RAM than the iPhone 5. How is that progression? How is that in any way acceptable? They all share the same 1GB of RAM but the iPhone 5 is 32Bit and so it uses less RAM, meaning more is available for the apps & browser tabs etc. When you factor in that the 6+ has way more demanding hardware than the iPhone 5 what with the much larger display, plus the ridiculously high non-native resolution which constantly needs downscaling to 1080p, it seems not only insane but unforgivable that the 6+ has *less* available RAM than the iPhone 5.

Oh and why do Android flagships come with 3 and soon to be 4GB of RAM? Please don't say that Android 'needs' three or four times as much RAM in order to simply function. My Android tablet is an absolute champ for not reloading and it only has 1.5GB of RAM.

Does 64-bit really use that much more RAM?

 

[terraphantm]

I don't think you understood what I mean.

1. The iPhone 6+ IS capable of multitasking.

2. I have posted evidence that you can switch between apps and they won't reload.

3. Even IF someone were to refute #1 or #2 there is still #4:

4. Phones aren't meant to be a workhorse in the first place so #1 and #2 are a bonus anyway.

Essentially Im saying even IF they were to win the argument (which they didnt) they would still have lost on the grounds that the phone isn't even meant to do that. So its keeping it in context of how pointless and petty the criticism is on two separate levels.

The iPhone is advertised as being capable of multitasking. That was an explicitly advertised feature since iOS 5 if I'm not mistaken.

Do I expect it to be as capable as a real computer? Of course not. And I don't put my iPhone through anywhere near as much as what I put my MacBook through.

The problem is the iPhone can barely handle very basic multitasking, and it is impossible to know exactly when it will refresh. I can generally predict that loading an image heavy tab will cause everything I had in the background to purge. But it's tough to know when you've hit the threshold when browsing "normal" sites. And the behavior isn't limited to Safari. Sometimes I'll be drafting an email, head to safari to copy a URL, and then find my mail app refreshes when I return. And although mail does auto save drafts, it doesn't do that continuously. So I often lose a lot of text while performing such a simple actio.

It's also very apparent how resource limited the phone is when the music player stutters or crashes while loading an image heavy page on Safari. The iPhone 6 struggles to do very basic tasks.

You can argue "it's just a phone", but if that were truly the case, there would be no reason to have these beautiful high res screens, moderately powerful processors, real graphics capabilities, and large amounts of storage.

 

[sunking101]

Does 64-bit really use that much more RAM?

Well, there's precious-little difference between the iPhone 5 and the 5S other than Touch ID and some incremental improvements, yet the 5S reloads more readily than the i5. Nothing like the 6+ but it's certainly noticeable. The 5S was the first 64Bit iPhone.

A 64Bit device uses more memory for a couple of reasons. Firstly, you can run 32Bit applications on a 64Bit o/s which means a 64Bit o/s has to load some 32Bit libraries into memory in addition to its native 64Bit libraries.

Additionally a 64Bit device uses 64Bit memory addresses instead of 32Bit memory addresses. This means each pointer to memory takes up 8 bytes instead of 4 bytes, causing some additional memory use there as well.

 

[C DM]

Well, there's precious-little difference between the iPhone 5 and the 5S other than Touch ID and some incremental improvements, yet the 5S reloads more readily than the i5. Nothing like the 6+ but it's certainly noticeable. The 5S was the first 64Bit iPhone.

A 64Bit device uses more memory for a couple of reasons. Firstly, you can run 32Bit applications on a 64Bit o/s which means a 64Bit o/s has to load some 32Bit libraries into memory in addition to its native 64Bit libraries.

Additionally a 64Bit device uses 64Bit memory addresses instead of 32Bit memory addresses. This means each pointer to memory takes up 8 bytes instead of 4 bytes, causing some additional memory use there as well.

Sure, there's certainly some more memory usage, but it seems like that increase shouldn't be significant based on a number of sources about 64-bit computing I've come across. So is it simply just that, or is there something else to it.

 

[sunking101]

Sure, there's certainly some more memory usage, but it seems like that increase shouldn't be significant based on a number of sources about 64-bit computing I've come across. So is it simply just that, or is there something else to it.

Well, 1GB was fairly minimal even with the i5. It was sufficient, nothing more. The 5S should have got more but the 6+ with all those pixels to push? All the graphical power needed saps what precious little RAM there is to start with.
I'm still annoyed that Apple stiffed this phone when a few more dollars' worth of RAM would have made the device perfectly fine to hold onto until the iPhone 7 arrives. This thing has felt underspecced and underpowered from day one and can you imagine it running iOS10?

 

[C DM]

Well, 1GB was fairly minimal even with the i5. It was sufficient, nothing more. The 5S should have got more but the 6+ with all those pixels to push? All the graphical power needed saps what precious little RAM there is to start with.
I'm still annoyed that Apple stiffed this phone when a few more dollars' worth of RAM would have made the device perfectly fine to hold onto until the iPhone 7 arrives. This thing has felt underspecced and underpowered from day one and can you imagine it running iOS10?

I definitely agree that we are overdue for a bump in RAM for various reasons even in existing devices, let alone new ones, as various posts that I've made before show. I was just wondering how much of an impact the 64-bit architecture had/has on RAM.

 

[sunking101]

I definitely agree that we are overdue for a bump in RAM for various reasons even in existing devices, let alone new ones, as various posts that I've made before show. I was just wondering how much of an impact the 64-bit architecture had/has on RAM.

Not a huge one, but when there is so little RAM to play with it makes all the difference. Having said that, I have seen figures stating that 64Bit apps use 20-30% more RAM than their 32Bit counterparts. I don't know if those figures are correct or not but I wouldn't be surprised. I maintain that the iPhone 5 had 'sufficient' RAM and nothing more. There certainly wasn't sufficient when Apple went to 64Bit devices and then the super-high resolution display of the 6+ which uses much more graphical power than any other iPhone to date. With no onboard graphics memory, this is again borrowed from the main system's 1GB allowance. Talk about an Achilles Heel!

What you might find interesting is that the iPhone 4S running iOS 7.1.2 actually reloads less than the 6+. The 4S has half the RAM, but it's a 32Bit phone pushing a tiny much lower resolution screen. Did Apple really leave this RAM situation up to the beancounters, or have they no idea? Tim Cook did say that the i6 & 6+ would be "the mother of all upgrades" so they knew that the bigger screens were going to shift a ton of product. Just those extra few dollars per unit they saved by skimping on RAM will have amounted to a pretty penny. I really can't think that nobody on the engineering side considered the need for more RAM.

 

[terraphantm]

I definitely agree that we are overdue for a bump in RAM for various reasons even in existing devices, let alone new ones, as various posts that I've made before show. I was just wondering how much of an impact the 64-bit architecture had/has on RAM.

It's generally not a problem on a device that has an adequate amount of RAM, but for something that's already resource limited, 64-bit hurts.

 

[eoblaed]

Of course more of anything is better, including RAM. I have zero complaints with the way my 6 Plus runs, though. If they don't bump the ram on the 6S Plus (or however they're going to order that terminology) I won't care that deeply.

 

[Narcaz]

Not a huge one, but when there is so little RAM to play with it makes all the difference. Having said that, I have seen figures stating that 64Bit apps use 20-30% more RAM than their 32Bit counterparts. I don't know if those figures are correct or not but I wouldn't be surprised. I maintain that the iPhone 5 had 'sufficient' RAM and nothing more. There certainly wasn't sufficient when Apple went to 64Bit devices and then the super-high resolution display of the 6+ which uses much more graphical power than any other iPhone to date. With no onboard graphics memory, this is again borrowed from the main system's 1GB allowance. Talk about an Achilles Heel!

What you might find interesting is that the iPhone 4S running iOS 7.1.2 actually reloads less than the 6+. The 4S has half the RAM, but it's a 32Bit phone pushing a tiny much lower resolution screen. Did Apple really leave this RAM situation up to the beancounters, or have they no idea? Tim Cook did say that the i6 & 6+ would be "the mother of all upgrades" so they knew that the bigger screens were going to shift a ton of product. Just those extra few dollars per unit they saved by skimping on RAM will have amounted to a pretty penny. I really can't think that nobody on the engineering side considered the need for more RAM.

Apple's engineering team probably considered it. But as others pointed out, it is possible that 2GB RAM would have needed more logic board space and consumed slightly more battery life. This is not compatible with the need for thinner devices. So besides beancounting, Apple's thinness paradigm could have contributed to the decision to stick with 1GB RAM. From my perspective this is another major design flaw like the protruding camera, the big display bezels and the loss of structural rigidity.

The decrease of multitasking performance you mentioned earlier is especially bad on the iPad Air/mini 2/3. I recently updated the iPads of a my relatives to 8.3 and i could make a side by side comparison between an iPad 2, iPad 3 and mini 2. In my opinion the iPad 3 managed it best not the reload tabs or apps. The iPad 2 was nearly on par. The mini 2 can be forced to reload with just 2-3 open tabs. The result is somehow ironic, because the iPad 3 definitely feels like the slowest device due to the lack of processor/gpu power for the retina screen. But the faster A7 processor of the mini 2 can't really hide the problem.

Even more problematic: the old iPad 2 seems to handle the iOS 7/8 animations better than my mini 2. I am sensible to lag and stuttering and these problems aren't as bad on the old device. (Of course for many tasks you will notice the slower processor, but that's not my point).

I really don't know and (actually don't care anymore) if this issue is a hardware or a software problem or a combination of both. If it is a software problem then Apple led quality control really slip for a very long time. They couldn't find a solution after all these iterations of iOS 7/8?! Apple somehow minimized the issue with the Air 2 by giving it "overpowered" specs. So a 6S/Plus needs at least 2GB RAM for me. Otherwise i won't consider a purchase. And the argument about not using an appropriate device for the given task is really weak. Apple even advertised iPhones and iPads as multitasking tools and showed the use of multiple apps. This regression is just plain bad and doesn't play well with the premium image and price tag.

 

[ABC5S]

Apple's engineering team probably considered it. But as others pointed out, it is possible that 2GB RAM would have needed more logic board space and consumed slightly more battery life. This is not compatible with the need for thinner devices. So besides beancounting, Apple's thinness paradigm could have contributed to the decision to stick with 1GB RAM. From my perspective this is another major design flaw like the protruding camera, the big display bezels and the loss of structural rigidity.

How do you account for the Galaxy s6 with 3 gb of ram than, and a thin phone to boot ?

 

[bhayes444]

How do you account for the Galaxy s6 with 3 gb of ram than, and a thin phone to boot ?

Well, he did throw in the all important word "could" in his argument. He didn't say that thinness was the reason, just that it could have contributed. I think it was just a way to squeeze a few extra dollars out of the device. Extra RAM should not have a noticeable effect on battery life. However, I seriously hope it wasn't a logic board space issue as that would make it a very real possibility that the 6S won't have 2GB of RAM; as the only logic board redesign Apple will do is to fit the new processor on. If it did take a complete redesign to accommodate the A9 with 2GB of RAM then it would be entirely possible to have an updated case design. Although, I feel that is unlikely.

 

[Narcaz]

How do you account for the Galaxy s6 with 3 gb of ram than, and a thin phone to boot ?

It was just a guess that there could be other factors involved besides production costs. Smartphones are always compromises. You can't have everything unless there is major technological progress. I didn't say that it is impossible to built a thin smartphone with 3GB RAM. But it is a different compromise. In contrast to the Galaxy 5 Samsung uses a smaller battery (S6 9.82 Wh / S5 10.78 Wh). I looked up the Galaxy S6 Teardown from ifixit and in fact the logicboard seems a bit larger than the one from the 6Plus. The Air 2 needs also a little bit more space for the second RAM chip. I don't know if this is still necessary, but back in the days there was probably no affordable alternative.

According to this example Apple would have lost space for the battery if they added 2GB for 6Plus while maintaining the same aluminium "unibody". So they could have lived with a smaller battery or added a bit more thickness, but that wouldn't be in line with their thinness marketing. They choose the 6 Plus compromise, which is also highly beneficial to their desire to keep profit margins up. Hopefully they make other technical improvements or give up this (in my opinion useless) thinness to add at least 2GB RAM this year. I wouldn't mind a slightly thicker case (without the protruding camera, more structural rigidity) if i get more RAM with the 6S.

 

[ABC5S]

Apple can do this, but they just don't want to for some other reason other than thinness. Though I have the iPhone 5s, which I'm happy with the solid thickness, the Samsung Galaxy s6 is even better this time around, and nice looking devise. I hope Apple will pay attention with all future iPhones. However, my bet is they will not.

 

[sunking101]

It was just a guess that there could be other factors involved besides production costs. Smartphones are always compromises. You can't have everything unless there is major technological progress. I didn't say that it is impossible to built a thin smartphone with 3GB RAM. But it is a different compromise. In contrast to the Galaxy 5 Samsung uses a smaller battery (S6 9.82 Wh / S5 10.78 Wh). I looked up the Galaxy S6 Teardown from ifixit and in fact the logicboard seems a bit larger than the one from the 6Plus. The Air 2 needs also a little bit more space for the second RAM chip. I don't know if this is still necessary, but back in the days there was probably no affordable alternative.

According to this example Apple would have lost space for the battery if they added 2GB for 6Plus while maintaining the same aluminium "unibody". So they could have lived with a smaller battery or added a bit more thickness, but that wouldn't be in line with their thinness marketing. They choose the 6 Plus compromise, which is also highly beneficial to their desire to keep profit margins up. Hopefully they make other technical improvements or give up this (in my opinion useless) thinness to add at least 2GB RAM this year. I wouldn't mind a slightly thicker case (without the protruding camera, more structural rigidity) if i get more RAM with the 6S.

Agreed. A protruding camera is never good in my book and those extra millimeters could provide the room for more RAM and a bigger battery. The one upgrade the 6S needs is more RAM, above all else ie before camera upgrades and a faster processor etc.

Apple's engineering team probably considered it. But as others pointed out, it is possible that 2GB RAM would have needed more logic board space and consumed slightly more battery life. This is not compatible with the need for thinner devices. So besides beancounting, Apple's thinness paradigm could have contributed to the decision to stick with 1GB RAM. From my perspective this is another major design flaw like the protruding camera, the big display bezels and the loss of structural rigidity.

The decrease of multitasking performance you mentioned earlier is especially bad on the iPad Air/mini 2/3. I recently updated the iPads of a my relatives to 8.3 and i could make a side by side comparison between an iPad 2, iPad 3 and mini 2. In my opinion the iPad 3 managed it best not the reload tabs or apps. The iPad 2 was nearly on par. The mini 2 can be forced to reload with just 2-3 open tabs. The result is somehow ironic, because the iPad 3 definitely feels like the slowest device due to the lack of processor/gpu power for the retina screen. But the faster A7 processor of the mini 2 can't really hide the problem.

Even more problematic: the old iPad 2 seems to handle the iOS 7/8 animations better than my mini 2. I am sensible to lag and stuttering and these problems aren't as bad on the old device. (Of course for many tasks you will notice the slower processor, but that's not my point).

I really don't know and (actually don't care anymore) if this issue is a hardware or a software problem or a combination of both. If it is a software problem then Apple led quality control really slip for a very long time. They couldn't find a solution after all these iterations of iOS 7/8?! Apple somehow minimized the issue with the Air 2 by giving it "overpowered" specs. So a 6S/Plus needs at least 2GB RAM for me. Otherwise i won't consider a purchase. And the argument about not using an appropriate device for the given task is really weak. Apple even advertised iPhones and iPads as multitasking tools and showed the use of multiple apps. This regression is just plain bad and doesn't play well with the premium image and price tag.

I liked your post and agree with it in the main but whenever a lack of RAM is mentioned, people state how many browser tabs they can keep open. My issue with the 6+ is that I cannot keep one data-heavy website such as a newspaper open, spend a bit of time in it (as you do) and then go back to the last app I used without it reloading. Then if I spend some time in this app and then go back to the newspaper, it will reload. So in my experience the 6+ cannot keep one browser tab and one app in memory. Sure some people show videos where they quickly flick between some light browser tabs and a couple of light apps and this somehow proves to them that the 6+ has sufficient RAM. Quickly flicking between apps and browsers without spending time in them and actually using them is not real world use.

 

[Technarchy]

It was just a guess that there could be other factors involved besides production costs. Smartphones are always compromises. You can't have everything unless there is major technological progress. I didn't say that it is impossible to built a thin smartphone with 3GB RAM. But it is a different compromise. In contrast to the Galaxy 5 Samsung uses a smaller battery (S6 9.82 Wh / S5 10.78 Wh). I looked up the Galaxy S6 Teardown from ifixit and in fact the logicboard seems a bit larger than the one from the 6Plus. The Air 2 needs also a little bit more space for the second RAM chip. I don't know if this is still necessary, but back in the days there was probably no affordable alternative.

According to this example Apple would have lost space for the battery if they added 2GB for 6Plus while maintaining the same aluminium "unibody". So they could have lived with a smaller battery or added a bit more thickness, but that wouldn't be in line with their thinness marketing. They choose the 6 Plus compromise, which is also highly beneficial to their desire to keep profit margins up. Hopefully they make other technical improvements or give up this (in my opinion useless) thinness to add at least 2GB RAM this year. I wouldn't mind a slightly thicker case (without the protruding camera, more structural rigidity) if i get more RAM with the 6S.

What you're suggesting is Apple is choosing form and profits, over function and user experience. I agree, this is the reason why I've gotten cold on Apple iOS products. While I am okay with some features lagging behind the S6, which I currently own, the lack of RAM is a real deal breaker for me.

 

[Serelus]

Does 64-bit really use that much more RAM?

It doesn't, he's exaggerating excessively with regards to it's use. Especially when it comes to languages used for iOS and Mac OS, including C, C++, Objective-C and Swift. Any of these languages makes it a breeze for you to manage RAM to the point where there's no difference between a 64-bit and a 32-bit applications. It's crucial here that I mention that even though it's a breeze, alot of developers just neglect to do so. I've found myself in that situation a few times, and you're either to lazy or to busy to keep the app updated.

 

[sunking101]

It doesn't, he's exaggerating excessively with regards to it's use. Especially when it comes to languages used for iOS and Mac OS, including C, C++, Objective-C and Swift. Any of these languages makes it a breeze for you to manage RAM to the point where there's no difference between a 64-bit and a 32-bit applications. It's crucial here that I mention that even though it's a breeze, alot of developers just neglect to do so. I've found myself in that situation a few times, and you're either to lazy or to busy to keep the app updated.

So how come the iPhone 4S, a 32Bit device with half the RAM of the iPhone 6+ actually reloads slightly less readily than the 6+? Surely it should be much worse as it has half the RAM? Or is the fact that it's a 32Bit device actually playing a significant hand here? The iPhone 5, the last 32Bit iPhone and with 1GB of RAM is the best multitasking iPhone Apple have yet released. Significantly it is much better than the 4S as it has twice the RAM.

It's funny how RAM didn't appear to be an issue until the 64Bit iPhones turned up.

 

[Narcaz]

It doesn't, he's exaggerating excessively with regards to it's use. Especially when it comes to languages used for iOS and Mac OS, including C, C++, Objective-C and Swift. Any of these languages makes it a breeze for you to manage RAM to the point where there's no difference between a 64-bit and a 32-bit applications. It's crucial here that I mention that even though it's a breeze, alot of developers just neglect to do so. I've found myself in that situation a few times, and you're either to lazy or to busy to keep the app updated.

I tend to contradict, but i am neither a developer nor an expert. Has anything changed since the introduction of the 5S? There were a lot of articles from different sites about the 64Bit pros/cons, but most sounded like this:

"Thanks in part to this, but mainly to its increased core count, higher clock speed, and improved GPU, the new iPhone 5s will likely fly through iOS apps with an aplomb never seen before. The only negatives to the switch are that 64-bit applications are almost always larger than their 32-bit cousins, and in most cases will use slightly more memory." http://www.theverge.com/2013/9/12/4722470/iphone-5s-64-bit-processor-is-a-bigger-deal-than-you-think

"The other problem I see is that although Cyclone is incredibly forward looking, it launched in devices with only 1GB of RAM. It's very likely that you'll run into memory limits before you hit CPU performance limits if you plan on keeping your device for a long time." http://www.anandtech.com/show/7910/apples-cyclone-microarchitecture-detailed

Maybe the upcoming app thinning and the ability to exclude support for 32 Bit devices will help 64 Bit devices with 1GB RAM. But Apple should at least move to 2GB RAM for the 6S to be safe. The 5S review article from anandtech speculated even that the 6 will have 2GB RAM and the 6S 4GB (someone made his prediction without Cook lol).

 

[Louter]

Hello peeps, I have been myself testing these iphone 6's in various display stores, and I do agree that a minimum 2gb ram is needed, but that alone wont future proof newer ios releases. The thing is with much more functionality packed in, for sure these processes would require even more memory. Now, especially with iphone 6 plus, it ended up being the design flaw on the hardware side due to insufficient memory. I opened only 4 tabs in safari, and toggle between these websites, within minutes they are quickly refreshing. This was never the case with my iphone 5. Iphone 6 wise is still doing alright and fluid.

In fact this is one reason why I've decided to stick with my ip5 and wait for a newer launch. Hopefully things will iron out smoothly between this display transition and insufficient memory problems. Really can't wait for the 6s or 7. Do you guys think ip7 would sport a 3gb ram instead?

 

[Hot12345]

Hello peeps, I have been myself testing these iphone 6's in various display stores, and I do agree that a minimum 2gb ram is needed, but that alone wont future proof newer ios releases. The thing is with much more functionality packed in, for sure these processes would require even more memory. Now, especially with iphone 6 plus, it ended up being the design flaw on the hardware side due to insufficient memory. I opened only 4 tabs in safari, and toggle between these websites, within minutes they are quickly refreshing. This was never the case with my iphone 5. Iphone 6 wise is still doing alright and fluid.

In fact this is one reason why I've decided to stick with my ip5 and wait for a newer launch. Hopefully things will iron out smoothly between this display transition and insufficient memory problems. Really can't wait for the 6s or 7. Do you guys think ip7 would sport a 3gb ram instead?

In fact, i don't believe that 2gb RAM will be enough, because with the larger screen you need more RAM. 2gb will be enough for some apps, but if you have alot open apps jn the background 2gb will not be enough. Trust me. At least need to be 3gb RAM.

 

[Louter]

That is *such* rubbish. I spent 18 months with my iPhone 5 and it multitasked fine. Sure it reloaded more than I would have liked but it could keep two apps and two browser tabs open without any refreshing. I was expecting the same with my 6+ (knowing it only had 1GB of RAM) but sadly it cannot keep one app and one browser tab in memory for very long. The multitasking capabilities have gone from ok to disastrous over two generations of iPhone. Things should be getting better, not MUCH worse. Sadly people like you defend this nonsense. The 6+ is a potentially great phone ruined, yes RUINED by insufficient RAM.

You know sunking, when ip6+ was first out, I was just so tempted to get it. Everyone in my office got one and they kept tempting me. It was hard to resist, but right until now I'm still waiting for newer iteation. I thought ok maybe ios8 is buggy and by the time ios8.3 is out and I kept testing the display units with newest ios, it is still as bugged up with this refresh problem and lagness/stutterings which most users would not notice, cause probably they can't notice frame drops. Its kinda sad seeing this, as when I got my ip5 in ios 6, I really feel that it was one of the most fluid phone that I've ever used and owned. And I really wish to relive with that experience once more when I purchase newer generations...

 

[Louter]

In fact, i don't believe that 2gb RAM will be enough, because with the larger screen you need more RAM. 2gb will be enough for some apps, but if you have alot open apps jn the background 2gb will not be enough. Trust me. At least need to be 3gb RAM.

I have a nagging voice in my head that 3gb as well will be the minimum standard to future proof newer ios iterations... But seeing the current situation, 1gb in these 2 phones aren't enough :s

 

[Hot12345]

I have a nagging voice in my head that 3gb as well will be the minimum standard to future proof newer ios iterations... But seeing the current situation, 1gb in these 2 phones aren't enough :s

Yes exactly, 3gb minimum at least,

 

[cynics]

In fact, i don't believe that 2gb RAM will be enough, because with the larger screen you need more RAM. 2gb will be enough for some apps, but if you have alot open apps jn the background 2gb will not be enough. Trust me. At least need to be 3gb RAM.

I find the iPad Air 2 with 2gb of RAM to be a satisfactory experience and it's moving over a million more pixels vs the iPhone 6+.