Whose in....no 2 GB RAM, no 6s?

[Serelus]

At this point we seem to be running in kind of pointless circles. If everyone's opinion here is simply part of a "silly community with the expertise of a wet sack of potatoes" then how does what you say somehow is a fact and while what others present are just opinions? And furthermore, if other factors are brought up how would they not similarly fall into the category of simply being part of a "silly community with the expertise of a wet sack of potatoes" which would then also make them similarly meaningless opinions? Not much of a useful/meaningful discussion can really be had once a biased view of it all like that is presented.

Because what I am saying is based on the standards that apple has set for properly managing Memory Allocation within your application. Also there's no other way for safari to handle javascript/interactivity, in mid-code. Android gets around this because they can let the process run in the background, this doesn't happen on apple devices unless you play music or a video of some sort. It's a SOFTWARE issue, not a RAM issue again.

https://developer.apple.com/library...emory/Articles/CachingandPurgeableMemory.html

 

[sunking101]

Rather then thinking from a user perspective, think about it from Apple's perspective. You can't compare storage to RAM, you don't want a regular user spending extra amounts of cash on things they don't need. Also it's not just Apple not offering BTO devices on RAM, no other company I know of within the popular smartphone game is doing this, and there is most likely a very solid reason for it. If this were such an issue Samsung would have already jumped on in and tell us how it's offering 2 or 3GB of ram as opposed to Apple's silly 1GB. But they don't do that because people don't know what RAM is. Our small community does, but apple's not gonna scratch that into a product just to pander to the few thousands of us that want to fully spec out our mobile devices. Your reason is silly because as stated already, there's no issue with RAM, the software is the issue.

The software is the issue? Right, so you at least accept that there *is* an issue.
Now look at it a bit deeper. Since the 64Bit 5S came out approx 18 months ago, this reloading issue has developed into a 'thing'. Only heavy users noticed the 5S reloading much more than the iPhone 5. Then the i6 came out with a more demanding display and operating system. The 6+ is even worse for reloading with its more demanding still display. So in 18 months since the 5S launched, what have Apple done with software in order to fix the reloading issue? That's right, all they have done is made it worse. Now you can wait years for a mythical software fix but I'll take some more RAM thanks. More demanding hardware and more demanding software requires more RAM. It's simple, and cheap as chips to implement. Apple either don't know what they're doing, or the bean counters want to make as much profit per unit as possible. I suspect the latter.

 

[terraphantm]

Rather then thinking from a user perspective, think about it from Apple's perspective. You can't compare storage to RAM, you don't want a regular user spending extra amounts of cash on things they don't need. Also it's not just Apple not offering BTO devices on RAM, no other company I know of within the popular smartphone game is doing this, and there is most likely a very solid reason for it. If this were such an issue Samsung would have already jumped on in and tell us how it's offering 2 or 3GB of ram as opposed to Apple's silly 1GB. But they don't do that because people don't know what RAM is. Our small community does, but apple's not gonna scratch that into a product just to pander to the few thousands of us that want to fully spec out our mobile devices. Your reason is silly because as stated already, there's no issue with RAM, the software is the issue.

No company does it, but it's not really a fair comparison. In the Android world, there's a lot more choices of phone period. I could choose to buy a high-end device that comes with a large amount of RAM, or I could choose to buy a low end device that's just enough to get by for basic tasks. With Apple, I have no such choices.

Logistically, why is offering different RAM capacities any different than offering different storage capacities? In both cases, they have to inventory different logic boards. It's not like adding more NAND is just a matter of swapping out a standard harddrive.

The software being the problem is your opinion. It is fact that iOS runs much smoother on the iPad Air 2, and that has twice as much RAM as the iPhone 6/6+. So as far as I'm concerned, RAM is the primary issue.

 

[sunking101]

Apple love customers who think Apple knows best. Hey my iPhone reloads, that's good right? It means I get the most current version of the webpage. It means that my app is bang up to date. They meant that to happen, they know more than we do. My frustrations with the reloading are wrong, I'm wrong. I'm not using it properly.
Etc.

This is a premium smartphone for goodness sake, and yet my 6+ has felt like a basic smartphone since day one. It simply cannot multitask in a reliable or consistent manner and that's just not good for a £700 device, especially when the older iPhone 5 multitasked WAY better.

 

[terraphantm]

Because what I am saying is based on the standards that apple has set for properly managing Memory Allocation within your application. Also there's no other way for safari to handle javascript/interactivity, in mid-code. Android gets around this because they can let the process run in the background, this doesn't happen on apple devices unless you play music or a video of some sort. It's a SOFTWARE issue, not a RAM issue again.

https://developer.apple.com/library...emory/Articles/CachingandPurgeableMemory.html

Have you actually read your link? That doesn't in any way prove the device has enough RAM. It just gives developers guidelines on how to allocate memory.

The problem is that some apps by their nature are going to be memory intensive, and iOS has such a small amount of RAM, that simply running one such app will force the OS to purge anything that is purgeable in order to stay running. Increasing the amount of RAM would allow the OS to delay this. With sufficient RAM, the purging should be so infrequent that the user never notices.

 

[sunking101]

Have you actually read your link? That doesn't in any way prove the device has enough RAM. It just gives developers guidelines on how to allocate memory.

The problem is that some apps by their nature are going to be memory intensive, and iOS has such a small amount of RAM, that simply running one such app will force the OS to purge anything that is purgeable in order to stay running. Increasing the amount of RAM would allow the OS to delay this. With sufficient RAM, the purging should be so infrequent that the user never notices.

Exactly. I don't mind an app purging that I used hours ago. It's when the browser tab I'm currently using refreshes, and the app I was in five minutes ago reloads. Basically the very last app I used should not reload. Ever.

 

[Serelus]

No company does it, but it's not really a fair comparison. In the Android world, there's a lot more choices of phone period. I could choose to buy a high-end device that comes with a large amount of RAM, or I could choose to buy a low end device that's just enough to get by for basic tasks. With Apple, I have no such choices.

Logistically, why is offering different RAM capacities any different than offering different storage capacities? In both cases, they have to inventory different logic boards. It's not like adding more NAND is just a matter of swapping out a standard harddrive.

The software being the problem is your opinion. It is fact that iOS runs much smoother on the iPad Air 2, and that has twice as much RAM as the iPhone 6/6+. So as far as I'm concerned, RAM is the primary issue.

While I can agree with your first point, let me make it very clear that the software issue is in no way an opinion. It's simply the way iOS manages it's resources, again when it comes to how iOS handles this in combination with how the developer has setup it's purging memory policies, you can get very unsatisfying results. But that doesn't mean by default you have an insufficient amount of RAM.

 

[sunking101]

While I can agree with your first point, let me make it very clear that the software issue is in no way an opinion. It's simply the way iOS manages it's resources, again when it comes to how iOS handles this in combination with how the developer has setup it's purging memory policies, you can get very unsatisfying results. But that doesn't mean by default you have an insufficient amount of RAM.

The two generations older iPhone 5 had, in effect, more RAM than the current iPhone 6+. Are you saying that with the more demanding iOS8 and much more demanding HD screen & downscaling that this is acceptable? How does less RAM for the 6+ fit into your 'Apple knows best' mantra? Are you saying that this backs up your call for a software fix, because Apple have decided that we actually need *less* RAM and better coding? If this laughable idea were actually true, then why haven't they released this incredible software fix yet? Are we to pay £700 for a 64GB 6+ and have it run like a dog for the full 12 months, then sell it and buy the next iPhone hoping that the software fix is in place by that time? Is it right to cripple a phone for the entire duration of its lifecycle whilst Apple work on a software fix??

 

[Serelus]

Have you actually read your link? That doesn't in any way prove the device has enough RAM. It just gives developers guidelines on how to allocate memory.

The problem is that some apps by their nature are going to be memory intensive, and iOS has such a small amount of RAM, that simply running one such app will force the OS to purge anything that is purgeable in order to stay running. Increasing the amount of RAM would allow the OS to delay this. With sufficient RAM, the purging should be so infrequent that the user never notices.

Okay I addressed this earlier, this is something all systems with RAM go through. but at what point do we say it's enough then? we can put 8GB of ram in there and I can guarantee we can fill it up. I can also guarantee you that once apple upgrades to 2GB, people will moan about the fact that these issues are still there, and that they want 4GB. As benchmark right now I have a solid 20 to 30 apps "opened in the background." with none of the issues occurring i'd say we can staple this as a none RAM issue, but rather a software issue right?

Edit: instead of saying well, it's software related we can fix it with hardware. Shouldn't we be fixing the software instead?

 

[sunking101]

Okay I addressed this earlier, this is something all systems with RAM go through. but at what point do we say it's enough then? we can put 8GB of ram in there and I can guarantee we can fill it up. I can also guarantee you that once apple upgrades to 2GB, people will moan about the fact that these issues are still there, and that they want 4GB. As benchmark right now I have a solid 20 to 30 apps "opened in the background." with none of the issues occurring i'd say we can staple this as a none RAM issue, but rather a software issue right?

Lol, 20-30 apps open with no reloading?
You're right on one thing though, we will be calling for 4GB because right now 2GB is the absolute bare minimum requirement. The 5S and i6/6+ should have had 2GB, with the iPhone 7 coming out with more.

 

[Serelus]

The two generations older iPhone 5 had, in effect, more RAM than the current iPhone 6+. Are you saying that with the more demanding iOS8 and much more demanding HD screen & downscaling that this is acceptable? How does less RAM for the 6+ fit into your 'Apple knows best' mantra? Are you saying that this backs up your call for a software fix, because Apple have decided that we actually need *less* RAM and better coding? If this laughable idea were actually true, then why haven't they released this incredible software fix yet? Are we to pay £700 for a 64GB 6+ and have it run like a dog for the full 12 months, then sell it and buy the next iPhone hoping that the software fix is in place by that time? Is it right to cripple a phone for the entire duration of its lifecycle whilst Apple work on a software fix??

Just because you pay a lot of money and coding is being done badly on apple's behalf doesn't make the actual problem any less true, do you think I don't want an extra batch of RAM in my device? companies aren't perfect as you mentioned earlier, sadly this is the crux of the issue, and like I said in the post before this one. These issues will stay even if 2GB were to be added to the device.

 

[sunking101]

Just because you pay a lot of money and coding is being done badly on apple's behalf doesn't make the actual problem any less true, do you think I don't want an extra batch of RAM in my device? companies aren't perfect as you mentioned earlier, sadly this is the crux of the issue, and like I said in the post before this one. These issues will stay even if 2GB were to be added to the device.

Can I ask why you want more RAM when in your opinion you don't need it? What would you do with it?

 

[terraphantm]

Honestly, if Apple had stuck to its pattern of doubling memory with every major generation, there'd probably be far less RAM complaints. They broke that pattern with the 6/6+, and it's showing.

Okay I addressed this earlier, this is something all systems with RAM go through. but at what point do we say it's enough then? we can put 8GB of ram in there and I can guarantee we can fill it up. I can also guarantee you that once apple upgrades to 2GB, people will moan about the fact that these issues are still there, and that they want 4GB. As benchmark right now I have a solid 20 to 30 apps "opened in the background." with none of the issues occurring i'd say we can staple this as a none RAM issue, but rather a software issue right?

Edit: instead of saying well, it's software related we can fix it with hardware. Shouldn't we be fixing the software instead?

I really don't think it's software related. At least not in the sense that it's necessarily fixable. Apple deliberately designed its memory management the way it is. Sure they could implement things like caching to the storage, but that brings other problems with it (namely premature NAND wear). They can't simply have everything marked as non-purgeable and have no caching. If they did, we'd be back to the iOS 3 days where there was no multitasking or backgrounded processes.

The obvious and cheapest fix is adding more RAM. When is it enough? When there's enough to not impact the user experience when running multiple apps that should be backgroundable. I think most people accept and understand that you have to free up resources when running something intensive like a game. People do that on real PCs too. But right now I can't even copy and paste something from one tab to another without seeing a tab refresh and losing everything.

Like I said above, if Apple stuck to its pattern, there wouldn't be much of an issue.

 

[Serelus]

Can I ask why you want more RAM when in your opinion you don't need it? What would you do with it?

Honestly? as a technology enthusiast I like to spec out my equipment in general. When I bought my retina macbook pro at first, I went with the 16GB even though I wasn't planning on using it for VM/programming.

But it turned out to be a nice buy, when I did started using it for those purposes. So yeah IF I had a choice I would probably go for a phone with more ram, just to have it their when apps truly become as demanding as you claim. Or to future proof obviously. Please don't try to turn this around on me, I think I am making it quite obvious here that at the moment I just don't need the extra RAM.

 

[C DM]

The basic simple reality is that it's time for a RAM increase. Things have progressed to necessitate a bump to 512 MB, and then to 1 GB, and they have certainly progressed since then enough that going to 2 GB would follow. Trying to nitpick on why certain specific aspects of this or that might not be something RAM related or mostly RAM related doesn't somehow undermine that at this point in time an increase in RAM is due with everything else that has progressed since the last RAM increase.

 

[Serelus]

The basic simple reality is that it's time for a RAM increase. Things have progressed to necessitate a bump to 512 MB, and then to 1 GB, and they have certainly progressed since then enough that going to 2 GB would follow. Trying to nitpick on why certain specific aspects of this or that might not be something RAM related or mostly RAM related doesn't somehow undermine that at this point in time an increase in RAM is due with everything else that has progressed since the last RAM increase.

Okay to sum things up.

My original point was that, with the issues stated within this very thread --Which are unequivocally software related.-- You do not need more RAM.

As for whether it's that time in the device's life to have it's RAM upgraded, I guess that's something I can agree with.

However, let's talk again when we finally get that 2GB upgrade and the issues persist. I am going to bed gentlemen, I enjoy a good discussion once in a while

 

[AustinIllini]

I don't know enough about the software of the iPhone in terms of what happens under the hood, however I am tired of the number of app and browser refreshes forced. If that's RAM related, I'm on board the 2 GB of RAM train.

 

[rockitdog]

What will people complain about next? There will never be a perfect device, ever! So you'll get your 2 GB or RAM... then onto the next gripe.

 

[C DM]

What will people complain about next? There will never be a perfect device, ever! So you'll get your 2 GB or RAM... then onto the next gripe.

And that's how life goes and has been going since the beginning really.

 

[nitromaxx]

I'm much more concerned about the terrible grammar in this thread. My iPhone 6 Plus works just fine.

 

[sunking101]

I'm much more concerned about the terrible grammar in this thread. My iPhone 6 Plus works just fine.

*For your requirements. I'm sure that those of us complaining about insufficient RAM would find your 6+ to be a portable reloading device, just like ours are.

 

[Ev0d3vil]

I'm on the air 2 and its performance should be what the air 1 should be imo. Less reloading and its satisfying, so 2gb ram makes a whole lot of difference.

 

[Razeus]

If it doesn't come with 2GB of RAM, I'm holding off. I'm convinced this is the reason I have some usability issues on my 6 Plus. I've had it up to here with all the freaking reloading. Those same issues don't appear on my iPad Air 2. For example, VSCOCam likes to crash on my 6 Plus when import/export jpegs from my X-T1 camera. Soon as it imports, it crashes. If I export more than 5-6 photos at a time, it crashes. This doesn't happen on my Air 2. Works like a charm.

Also, if it DOES finally come with 2GB of RAM (or more), I can say I'll probably be upgrading every OTHER year instead of annually. I'm finding for what I do, I don't need a new iPhone every year anymore. I think we are approaching the thinnest/fastest limit. I'll also look forward to OS updates, and I'm hoping iOS 9 fixes the buginess of iOS 7 and 8.

 

[terraphantm]

I think

If it doesn't come with 2GB of RAM, I'm holding off. I'm convinced this is the reason I have some usability issues on my 6 Plus. I've had it up to here with all the freaking reloading. Those same issues don't appear on my iPad Air 2. For example, VSCOCam likes to crash on my 6 Plus when import/export jpegs from my X-T1 camera. Soon as it imports, it crashes. If I export more than 5-6 photos at a time, it crashes. This doesn't happen on my Air 2. Works like a charm.

Also, if it DOES finally come with 2GB of RAM (or more), I can say I'll probably be upgrading every OTHER year instead of annually. I'm finding for what I do, I don't need a new iPhone every year anymore. I think we are approaching the thinnest/fastest limit. I'll also look forward to OS updates, and I'm hoping iOS 9 fixes the buginess of iOS 7 and 8.

I think I'll end up going the same way. And probably will try to stick to the S-cyle. I've generally been happier with all the various S versions

 

[cynics]

Okay I addressed this earlier, this is something all systems with RAM go through. but at what point do we say it's enough then? we can put 8GB of ram in there and I can guarantee we can fill it up. I can also guarantee you that once apple upgrades to 2GB, people will moan about the fact that these issues are still there, and that they want 4GB. As benchmark right now I have a solid 20 to 30 apps "opened in the background." with none of the issues occurring i'd say we can staple this as a none RAM issue, but rather a software issue right?

Edit: instead of saying well, it's software related we can fix it with hardware. Shouldn't we be fixing the software instead?

You don't have the fundamental understanding of how individual OS's utilize RAM to the point you are beginning to make up stuff.

A desktop OS will utilize physical hard drive space when it runs out of RAM. iOS will not, it will close apps. The only way to fix this with software then would be to use storage. NAND is too limited and too slow to be utilized like this. Point is hardware is required no matter which way you look it, its a problem that can not be fixed with software alone short of dumbing down apps to their most primitive early 2000's state.

So you can only have 20-30 apps open and maintaining a standby state if the sum of the apps are less then the physical amount of RAM. Those apps would need to be small trivial things (calculator apps, note apps, etc).

And why do you mention "Once apple upgrades to 2gb" as if they didnt already with the iPad? The difference is quite remarkable too which kind of makes any counter argument a moot point.