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Give him a break. He's obviously just a kid who has lot to learn about how to interact with people, make a convincing argument & clearly convey his point in a manner that other people will actually listen to, and about computers themselves, how people use them and why they make the choices of OS or manufacturer they do.
It seems a reasonable assessment. ;) It might be rather difficult to learn though, if the abrasiveness tone is often prevalent. Members may go for the ignore function, rather than reply with information that could be useful.

BTW, this is the first time I've ever waded in to any sort of ridiculous thread like this. I don't mean the whole thread is ridiculous necessarily, only the appearance of Belleraphone.
There are more weird outbursts and flame wars on mac rumors forums than any other forum I've ever used, which range across many subjects, although this is the only computer forum I've ever used.
MR seems rather tame compared to others out there from what I've stumbled across. :eek: ;)
 
I wonder what Belleraphone's face looks like? I mean, it must be beaten and scared right? Certainly he's the type of bold, truth-telling, righteous individual that would just walk into any room and call almost everyone in it an idiot and a moron. Right? So I assume he gets knocked about a bit. No?

:D

Nothing like the Ugly Truth Stick :D

Felt the need to refute some comments, at anyrate.

Only morons or little kids get viruses on their computer.... Macs are for people who don't know how to use computers well.

True, I never got a virus because I didn't look at pr0n at the age of eight, either. That or the fact that my parents were still using a Commodore; take your pick. At anyrate, I know how to "use" Windows in this correct context; however, I perfer to not muck about with the system registry when it has to happen (certain hotixes for example).

Secondly, Macs are overpriced, period.
Many MacIntoshes agree, but the 2009 8-core 2.93 GHz model may wnt to argue with you.

OS X is for less tech-savvy people.
Not for tech-savvy people? I'll try to inform my mother how to use bash:D
 
What's really funny is that I'm actually a computer specialist, and I know what I'm actually talking about. My only "wrong" point was not knowing what Mac Pros were intended for. Funny how you all say "Hur dur this guy dosen't know what he's talking about" but can't even back it up. Every person I know that's specialized in computer science, tech support, or is a programmer agrees that Linux/Windows is a better OS, and it dosen't take a genius to figure out macs are over priced.

Oh, uhm, yeah, I can find a computer with a processor MORE powerful then a Mac Pro, the Mac OS X isn't revolutionary, like I said, apple computers couldn't even multitask until they had to use the Unix OS, pathetic. Microsoft only has more viruses because hackers target the majority. There are viruses for mac too.

http://www.google.com/search?q=mac+...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
 
Secondly, Macs are overpriced, period.

Look up the definition of that word.

The Mac Pro is also useless

Sure, it is.

because the processor can't be used to play any games,

Sure, it can't.

not to mention the graphics card sucks.

The 9500 is a farce, but

1. You buy it for the processors.
2. Get a 4870.

That's why it's more stable, because it runs slower then Windows.

Sure, it does.

Apple computers couldn't even multitask until they hybrid'd someone else's OS, which is Unix.

Pale-faced lie.

since Windows is better at Work and Play,

Sure, it is.

OS X is also better in security, but only because not as many people are writing viruses for Macs.

Marketshare is a lie. This is an argument from 1995. Get over it.

Vista runs faster then OS X,

Sure, it does.

Windows 7 doesn't crash at all,

Sure, it doesn't.

I've been using the BETA of it for about 6 months,

And I've been running the RC since its release and the beta before that. The RC has crashed multiple times.

I didn't have to restart my computer or anything.

So it didn't crash, then.

OS X is for less tech-savvy people.

Sure, it is.

HP also make thin, powerful laptops. That's all I have to say.

Uh, link? Never seen any from HP.

You know, my comeback to all of this was mainly shrugging off your statements. Do you know why?

No one; I repeat, no one can go onto any website, Mac or Windows, and claim that one is better than the other without actual evidence.

You have given none. Your words are worse than hollow, because none of them are true. Fortunately in this case, you don't need to actually come back and provide any evidence to support your statements, because none of your statements are correct in any way. Don't bother. Thanks for trolling; try again when we've forgotten what you are. :)

Oh, uhm, yeah, I can find a computer with a processor MORE powerful then a Mac Pro

So link to one.

the Mac OS X isn't revolutionary

So prove it.

like I said, apple computers couldn't even multitask until they had to use the Unix OS, pathetic.

Like I said, this is a lie.

Microsoft only has more viruses because hackers target the majority.

The Marketshare Myth is just that. Update your sources from 1995.

There are viruses for mac too.

Link me to one. ONE. (you'll link to a trojan, I guarantee it.)
 
]Look up the definition of that word.

to price excessively high; set too high a price on.

Sure, it is.

Thanks for agreeing.

Sure, it can't.

Thanks for agreeing.
The 9500 is a farce, but

1. You buy it for the processors.
2. Get a 4870.
Why should I have to pay even more?


Sure, it does.

Pale-faced lie.
Go and download an Apple OS before 1998.


Sure, it is.
Thanks for agreeing.


Marketshare is a lie. This is an argument from 1995. Get over it.
An argumetn is still an argument, and you have failed to rebut it.

Sure, it does.
Thanks for agreeing.


Sure, it doesn't.
Thanks for agreeing.

And I've been running the RC since its release and the beta before that. The RC has crashed multiple times.
Specs on your computer, please? Also, since you conceeded on the fact that Vista and Windows 7 can run faster then OS, Windows would get more accomplished in one day, even with its crashes, because it's faster.

So it didn't crash, then.
No, it did. When I tried to code a program and screwed up.

Sure, it is.
Thanks for agreeing with me.

Uh, link? Never seen any from HP.
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/Jun/10/h-p-targets-mac-thin-laptop/

You know, my comeback to all of this was mainly shrugging off your statements. Do you know why?
Nope.

No one; I repeat, no one can go onto any website, Mac or Windows, and claim that one is better than the other without actual evidence.
Okay.

You have given none. Your words are worse than hollow, because none of them are true. Fortunately in this case, you don't need to actually come back and provide any evidence to support your statements, because none of your statements are correct in any way. Don't bother. Thanks for trolling; try again when we've forgotten what you are. :)
Just gave you evidence.


So link to one.



So prove it.



Like I said, this is a lie.
Link to one what?

The Marketshare Myth is just that. Update your sources from 1995.
http://www.computerhope.com/issues/ch000737.htm While reason number 1 agrees with you, it's heavily outweighed by the others, so, sorry.



Link me to one. ONE. (you'll link to a trojan, I guarantee it.)
TO a virus? I'll link you to an article about macs getting viruses.
http://forums.dealmac.com/read.php?4,2533895
 
to price excessively high; set too high a price on.

And people are buying them, meaning they're not too expensive.

Why should I have to pay even more?

Because you're not buying for the graphics, you're buying for the processors.

Go and download an Apple OS before 1998.

I've been using Apple's OS' since 1994. All the way back to System 7, multitasking has always been possible.

Specs on your computer, please?

2.93GHz Gainestown Mac Pro, 6GB RAM, Radeon 4870 + GT 120.

Also, since you conceeded on the fact that Vista and Windows 7 can run faster then OS, Windows would get more accomplished in one day, even with its crashes, because it's faster.

Also, since you're being pathetic and thinking that I'm agreeing with you, it isn't. Guess what notebook ran Windows Vista the fastest in 2007? A MACBOOK PRO.

No, it did. When I tried to code a program and screwed up.

So a program crashed, but not the OS.

http://www.computerhope.com/issues/ch000737.htm While reason number 1 agrees with you, it's heavily outweighed by the others, so, sorry.

Prove to me that a piece of software can download itself onto my Mac and run, doing damage without me putting in my password.

That's what a virus is. I didn't think I'd need to stoop to definitions.

TO a virus? I'll link you to an article about macs getting viruses.
http://forums.dealmac.com/read.php?4,2533895

Not a virus.
 
And people are buying them, meaning they're not too expensive.
yet more people are buying PC's. .
Go and download an Apple OS before 1998.
I've been using Apple's OS' since 1994. All the way back to System 7, multitasking has always been possible.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_computer#The_Home_Computer_.22Revolution.22
Quote "The home computers of the early 1980s could not multitask. Even if they could, memory capacities were too small to hold entire databases or financial records"
Nope, sorry, you're wrong there.


Also, since you're being pathetic and thinking that I'm agreeing with you, it isn't. Guess what notebook ran Windows Vista the fastest in 2007? A MACBOOK PRO.
Source, please. Rofl. Pathetic.



That's what a virus is. I didn't think I'd need to stoop to definitions.
I've given you proof that it exists, I'm not going to LINK you to a virus.


Not a virus.
I don't think I should have to link you to a Mac virus, especially because I wouldn't know I'd be getting a virus because it runs on a Unix system, and therefore my system wouldn't detect it because it dosen't affect me, go find it yourself. I've given you proof that a virus for the OS X exists.


Also, since you're being pathetic and thinking that I'm agreeing with you, it isn't. Guess what notebook ran Windows Vista the fastest in 2007? A MACBOOK PRO.
[/QUOTE]
Update your sources, please.
 
And people are buying them, meaning they're not too expensive.

People fall for Ponzi and pyramid schemes and give huge amounts of money to complete strangers, and people buy premium brand names instead of No Name brands that are exactly the same, and made with the same ingredients. Does that mean they're smart?

Because you're not buying for the graphics, you're buying for the processors.

I can get better CPUs on a PC. The Mac Pro's Xeon is crap for anything but server work, and I would NOT trust my server to run on the sluggish and unreliable Mac OS X. After all, for a while even Apple ran some of their servers on Red Hat Linux.

I've been using Apple's OS' since 1994. All the way back to System 7, multitasking has always been possible.

Plug and Play was possible in Windows 95. Does that mean it was useable?

2.93GHz Gainestown Mac Pro, 6GB RAM, Radeon 4870 + GT 120.

Thats not really spectacular, considering your CPU sucks hardcore at anything but basic server work and the Mac cant run games to make full use of the 4870.

Also, since you're being pathetic and thinking that I'm agreeing with you, it isn't. Guess what notebook ran Windows Vista the fastest in 2007? A MACBOOK PRO.

What did they compare the Macbook with, an EEE PC? Also, link.

So a program crashed, but not the OS.

Dont tell me that doesnt happen in Mac OS X.

Prove to me that a piece of software can download itself onto my Mac and run, doing damage without me putting in my password.

That's what a virus is. I didn't think I'd need to stoop to definitions.

If thats your definition of a virus, then Windows doesnt have any either.

Not a virus.

As I said, if you think that a virus needs no human interaction to be a virus, then Windows doesn't have any either.
 
Reasons to Buy Mac:

-You Cannot get a virus
-Mac OSX
-You can run 2 operating systems at the same time
-Backlight keyboard
-"It just works"
-Simple setup out the box
-When you get a mac all your friends want one aswell
-It looks sexy
-You are born into the apple family
-You will get apple's first class customer service

Cant think of anymore you can add stuff !

Jonathan
 
Reasons to Buy Mac:

-You Cannot get a virus
-Mac OSX
-You can run 2 operating systems at the same time
-Backlight keyboard
-"It just works"
-Simple setup out the box
-When you get a mac all your friends want one aswell
-It looks sexy
-You are born into the apple family
-You will get apple's first class customer service

Cant think of anymore you can add stuff !

Jonathan

Wow, you just walked yourself into the middle of a large pissing match.

yet more people are buying PC's. .
While that statement is factually correct, but not telling the whole story. The Marketshare of Apple has dramatically increased. People are always buying more, the only real way to judge is marketshare. People are buying more iPods, but the Zune put a dent in the marketshare, grant it, not a large one.

Since Wikipedia is the most qualified source on earth. Seriously stop using it, both of you.
 
Wow, you just walked yourself into the middle of a large pissing match.


While that statement is factually correct, but not telling the whole story. The Marketshare of Apple has dramatically increased. People are always buying more, the only real way to judge is marketshare. People are buying more iPods, but the Zune put a dent in the marketshare, grant it, not a large one.

Since Wikipedia is the most qualified source on earth. Seriously stop using it, both of you.
Wikipedia cited their sources, so how about you check them?
 
Quote "The home computers of the early 1980s could not multitask. Even if they could, memory capacities were too small to hold entire databases or financial records"
Nope, sorry, you're wrong there.

Did you miss where I said 1994? That's the decade called the nineties. Not the eighties.

Source, please. Rofl. Pathetic.

PC World.

I've given you proof that it exists, I'm not going to LINK you to a virus.

No auto-executable code exists for OS X that doesn't require a password.

I've given you proof that a virus for the OS X exists.

No, you haven't.

Update your sources, please.

So you don't trust PC World?

Thats not really spectacular, considering your CPU sucks hardcore at anything but basic server work and the Mac cant run games to make full use of the 4870.

I don't really think that you have any way to say that my processor is unusable for anything, seeing as you don't have my processor or use it. Do you even know what "server work" is?

What did they compare the Macbook with, an EEE PC? Also, link.

Did it.

Dont tell me that doesnt happen in Mac OS X.

Please stop trying to cover up the fact that you can't tell the difference between an OS crash and a program crash.

As I said, if you think that a virus needs no human interaction to be a virus, then Windows doesn't have any either.

Human interaction = trojan or other malware.
 
-You Cannot get a virus

Yes you can. Also, unless you're a complete dumbass (oh, wait, you're a Mac user...) then you cant get a virus.


I thought this was reasons to BUY a Mac, not reasons to STAY THE **** AWAY from a Mac...

-You can run 2 operating systems at the same time

That is completely unspectacular. I can run multiple flavors of Linux, several versions of Windows, AND your precious Mac OS X

-Backlight keyboard

Are you serious? Okay...
saitek_led_keyboard.jpg


-"It just works"

I overestimated your intelligence. Guess what, PCs just work too.

-Simple setup out the box

Only a Mac user would need this. With a PC they might jab themselves on one of the sharp edges.

-When you get a mac all your friends want one aswell

One of my friends once got a Mac. I stopped being his friend after that.

-It looks sexy

No, it looks plain. Plus, I dont want to be ugly and have a sexy computer. The girls need to keep their attention on me, not my laptop.

-You are born into the apple family

Do you get a second brain? Cause maybe then your IQ might be closer to average...

-You will get apple's first class customer service

What makes it so first class? I called them once as a prank and they couldnt even hear me.
 
OS9 and older had cooperative multitasking and not preemptive so it was up to the applications and developer to determine if it was to allow multitasking, and for that reason, many applications did not multitask.

The Mac Pro is not overpriced for what it is, but some people would like a tower style computer which will hold add on cards and multiple internal drives, and for those people, the Mac Pro is an expensive solution. If apple had a Core2 or quad core based non xeon tower that could hold a couple drives and a PCI-E card for like 1/2 the price of a Mac Pro, then I think many would be happy.

In the test you're speaking of, Vista just barely ran faster on the Mac Pro than the next closes laptop which was a Dell I believe. Funny thing was that the Dell was clocked lower and it was like 99.5% the speed. If it was clocked the same, it would have suprassed the Macbook Pro in that test. Anyway not sure what this was supposed to prove. 1 week later the same test could have gone the other way because Dell could have sent a different notebook for testing... A good test would be to use a Macbook Pro and run some intesive app like Cinebench and see if it runs faster on Vista or OSX. IIRC, someone did this and Cinebench was a tad faster in Windows but that could just be a difference in compilers.

Also about stability, windows itself is not unstable. Windows server for example is not much different than the desktop in terms of kernel and stuff like that. If you google server uptime you will see that OSX is far below windows as far as server uptimes. That may not prove much but it does show that windows boxes can have very long uptimes.

I can place a windows box right out in the open with no router to protect it and it will not just magically get a virus. Yes years back (pre XP SP2 which was around 2004) it was a prob but not anymore). Even with windows, someone HAS to do SOMETHING to make a virus get onto it. You have to one way or other install something or allow something to be installed by clicking OK, go ahead and install (like an activeX object). It cant just get infected without some user intervention so in the end, the user is to blame.

Sure, OSX might be less dangerous in the hands of novice since there is less malware and viruses for it, but if someone uses windows and has a bit of a clue, then they dont have to worry. I've been running no AV since 2003 on any of my boxes except for my server because it has an FTP open which I allow my friends to use and god knows if they use any common sense or not.

Anyway it boils down to this. The greatest bottleneck in stability and performance and reliability is the user. If a user knows their OS and system fine, it will be stable for them.

And people are buying them, meaning they're not too expensive.



Because you're not buying for the graphics, you're buying for the processors.



I've been using Apple's OS' since 1994. All the way back to System 7, multitasking has always been possible.



2.93GHz Gainestown Mac Pro, 6GB RAM, Radeon 4870 + GT 120.



Also, since you're being pathetic and thinking that I'm agreeing with you, it isn't. Guess what notebook ran Windows Vista the fastest in 2007? A MACBOOK PRO.



So a program crashed, but not the OS.



Prove to me that a piece of software can download itself onto my Mac and run, doing damage without me putting in my password.

That's what a virus is. I didn't think I'd need to stoop to definitions.



Not a virus.
 
Wtf this guy has a problem oh one question if u have a problem with macs and apple in general why are u on a forum about apple & mac's and u insult my intelligence and I am an intelligent man.
 
I meant that article was old, outdated. My alienware computer can run Vista faster then that. Sorry. I trust PC world.

It dosen't matter what decade it was in, they had to switch to UNIX to multitask. Pathetic, really.

Yes, I've given you proof that a comptuer virus for the mac exists, and like oops said, a virus that requires NO human interaction doesn't exist for windows either.
 
The Mac Pro is not overpriced for what it is, but some people would like a tower style computer which will hold add on cards and multiple internal drives, and for those people, the Mac Pro is an expensive solution. If apple had a Core2 or quad core based non xeon tower that could hold a couple drives and a PCI-E card for like 1/2 the price of a Mac Pro, then I think many would be happy.

Ah, the old xMac argument. Yep, this is exactly what is keeping Apple from gaining another 20% marketshare. The rest would be perfectly happy with their current offerings, but the hardcore crowd NEEDS upgradability, and Apple just doesn't offer it in the mainstream.

Also about stability, windows itself is not unstable.

This is correct. The Seven RC is by far the best thing to ever come out of Redmond.

Even with windows, someone HAS to do SOMETHING to make a virus get onto it. You have to one way or other install something or allow something to be installed by clicking OK, go ahead and install (like an activeX object). It cant just get infected without some user intervention so in the end, the user is to blame.

I'm a little fuzzy on this. So, since Windows refuses to tell the user that something is happening, susceptibility is higher, yes? I mean to say, you can't have anything malicious happen to OS X without inputting your password, but Windows never requires a password for anything, so malware can, mmm... "get away" with more, yes?

Anyway it boils down to this. The greatest bottleneck in stability and performance and reliability is the user. If a user knows their OS and system fine, it will be stable for them.

Applause.
 

It is faster than the Gateway's E-265M by a SINGLE benchmark point, but costs about $400 more? No thanks.

No auto-executable code exists for OS X that doesn't require a password.

And the exact same is true for Windows.

I don't really think that you have any way to say that my processor is unusable for anything, seeing as you don't have my processor or use it. Do you even know what "server work" is?

Yes, I do. In fact I own a server. And I didnt get that from myself, but I DID get it from Intel, the people who made it: http://www.intel.com/p/en_US/products/server/processor

Please stop trying to cover up the fact that you can't tell the difference between an OS crash and a program crash.

I can, my friend here cant. I wrote a program that had an infinite loop with a memory leak. Within seconds it raped my computer's RAM, slowed it to a crawl, and eventually crashed it. The same would have happened just as easily on a Mac.

Human interaction = trojan or other malware.

That narrows it down by a lot. Trojan and other malware can be just as bad or worse than a virus, thats like saying people who died by accident shouldn't be counted in the country's death rate.

I'm a little fuzzy on this. So, since Windows refuses to tell the user that something is happening, susceptibility is higher, yes? I mean to say, you can't have anything malicious happen to OS X without inputting your password, but Windows never requires a password for anything, so malware can, mmm... "get away" with more, yes?

Lets stop pretending we're using Windows 98: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_Account_Control
 
Looks like tallest skil is getting owned.

No, not really. Other than my misunderstanding of the ramifications of viruses, not a single point of mine has been refuted, and some cannot be, as you don't own my hardware and cannot make judgements about it.

At any rate, this isn't the point of the thread, so continue your harassment of me in PMs and not this thread, thanks.
 
, not a single point of mine has been refuted, and some cannot be,
Look at the User Account Control, don't try to weasel your way out of this one, you know you have a crappy computer, and now you're just trying to not humiliate yourself. And BTW, my alienware notebook, one that was made AFTER 2007, runs vista faster then macbook pro.
 
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