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Why does Apple hate HDMI?
- Thread starter DVD9
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Excellent (and might I add intelligent......your version of
) way to insult me, and you wonder why people are on the defense "circling the wagons, locking and loading their guns and begin firing at your head" ?Just the fact that you mentioned "Some People" certainly shows that I'm not the only one with a problem with your posts. We all have a right to a discussion and from the title of your thread, I decided to post hoping to have a civil discussion. This is an open discussion and the forum rules are set by MR, not you. You've been either avoiding people's suggestions because it's makes your rant and point moot and/or ignoring the Dell article or giving a rebuttal against it so it works out in your favor.
Absolutely ridiculous for you to say that HDMI is "TODAY" and Apple should just focus on that. Many reasons why people love and stay with Apple's computers is because Apple prepares for tomorrow and doesn't focus on stuff that doesn't make sense. They DON'T make average run of the mill PC's for you to choose off a shelf at your local office store, Walmart or the Home Shopping Network. They make an alternative computer. If you can't handle that then sell yours, which has been a suggestion from a few people here and I've noticed you keep ignoring that.
Do you even OWN a recently made Apple Macintosh? I'm beginning to see that you really don't. Anybody this passionate about a HDMI port wouldn't do something stupid and buy a computer without checking it out, so I'm saying, at this point you don't even own a Mac.
THIS ☝☝☝☝☝
If I want to listen to mp3s should I buy an iPod? If I want to watch a movie on the go should I buy a portable DVD player? If I need to perform some mathematical calculations should I buy a calculator?
Should I be restricted to a certain number of functions such as web browsing/web page creation and photo/video editing?
I think you are on to something with the Apple TV though, and the Apple display panels. That's really the best response I've seen in this thread.
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Then Apple should include a tested dongle for HDMI and rewrite the software connection portion of the OS to make it simpler to use. That would eliminate a lot of confusion that can be read at the link to Amazon that I originally posted.
Some laptops have optical audio outs... The majority of live sound consoles are still analog, however, with few exceptions ours are all digital. Still, if the laptop is onstage, I might need a 200' optical cable to get to the sound console... now I could convert to coaxial, and run over copper (of which there is plenty), but i would still have to install a digital card in the console, and then patch that digital line where ever i needed it... Lots of sound processing is digital, but with few exceptions, the interconnections are still analog. Most devices use really high resolution, high quality DAs so there is not noticable noise injected to the signal (keep in mind i am contending with HVAC noise, audience noise, fans on intelligent (motorized) lighting equipment... the noise floor in a theater or presentation venue is pretty high.
All that said we use what is called a direct box. It has 1/8" stereo and RCA inputs, and uses transformers to create 2 balanced mic level outputs, that can plug into any input on any sound console.... This is a little off topic, so forgive the departure from the subject at hand...
I'm not going to disagree that an apple branded adapter would be great for a good many people, however let me also say that having used a number of off brand mini-display port to hdmi adapters, most often the issue is not the adapter, it is a failure of the hdmi handshake to tell the computer what it needs. Hdmi is really finnicky, for example, a great many people use their AV reciever (AVR) to switch the video sent to their tv, and taking the digital audio stream and driving the speakers. Often times, people have trouble with their gear if they power on the devices in the wrong order - that is not a feature of a user friendly interface. Also, hdmi allows control signals, as now, with the new version, high speed data to be sent bi-directionally on the same cable. Sometimes, individual users don't disable the hdmi control, and so their panasonic tv sends erroneous signals to the denon AVR that it doesn't understand but may or may not send to the cable box or dvd player.... I'm not saying the ideal that hdmi tries to create is a bad idea, but it creates problems. A common data channel that may be carrying multiple proprietary manufacture specific protocols is just asking for trouble.
That said, I highly recomend you look at the following two devices, both of which I have used.
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10428&cs_id=1042802&p_id=6331&seq=1&format=2
This product is the best, still won't fix the reliability issues inherent to hdmi but might be your best shot.
If you don't require audio on your hdmi, check this out:
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10428&cs_id=1042802&p_id=5311&seq=1&format=2
It is a whole lot cheaper!
Either way, read the reviews of the above items, I think you will find that a good many people are satisfied, or if they have issues, the company has good support to try to help.
This thread is so full of lawls its actually sad. Let me throw my 5 cents into the mix:
So for those crying for DisplayPort to be replaced by HDMI, please realize that people out there need to use VGA for projectors and DVI for monitors and thus DisplayPort is a valuable plug.
- HDMI is basically a TV-only connection
- Because HDMI is basically TV only it is not a good replacement for DisplayPort. Thus a MacBook Pro would require BOTH HDMI and DisplayPort
- Why can't DisplayPort go away? Because people everywhere use VGA to output to projectors, and HDMI to VGA adapters are few and far between
- The flexibility of a single port and a series of $5 dongles is far better than a multitude of plugs built into the laptop that take up space and add bulk
So for those crying for DisplayPort to be replaced by HDMI, please realize that people out there need to use VGA for projectors and DVI for monitors and thus DisplayPort is a valuable plug.
I got the feeling from reading those posts at Amazon that there might be an issue with some TVs working with the adapter ($7 model) and some not. It's not possible to tell though.
Then there is the two different ways that are given that someone can make the adapter work. Some claim they went through all the steps and failed. Others claim what should be seen does not show up in the settings. Reading further they may be in error.
It's just one big mess. The whole process seems stuck in between Apple and Ubuntu.
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I don't know where you got this "HDMI is for TV only", certainly not from reading this thread. Someone else already pointed out that more monitors have HDMI ports than DisplayPorts.
I went over to Amazon and there are several HDMI-to-VGA adapters available. I saw one 6ft cord with a one star rating. So I read the reviews and comments. Every bad review and comment was from someone who bought the wrong cord. They all needed the opposite connection type, a VGA-to-HDMI adapter. They were all trying to hook up their laptop to their HDTV.
I was reading last evening that Intel may not support USB 3.0 and that Apple is not either. Apple may go straight to Lightpeak to replace DisplayPort, HDMI and USB. So the next redesign of the MBP line may have three Lightpeak ports and nothing else to connect video, audio and external hard drives.
Is Apple going to give their customers dongle madness, or provide a bag of tested dongles (Lightpeak-to-HDMI, Lightpeak-to-USB etc.)?
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DisplayPort is more flexible than HDMI. If you have a system with a DisplayPort you can output to DVI, VGA, and HDMI monitors instead of just HDMI.
So in your mind a 6ft cable is better than a small dongle? Ok, lets convince the business people to start hauling around an additional 6 foot cable for all their presentations, great idea.
Dongle madness? I haven't once ran into anyone in real life who complained about needing a dongle. It isn't madness. A single flexible port is better than a single HDMI port.
quote that. dongle madness is having 100 different ports around your computer you wont ever use.
kill the thread... please?
Again, this is a rhetorical question to which no one can reply with any certainty... so it all seems like a futile exercise. (Even if you asked Apple they probably wouldn't answer... but go ahead and email Steve Jobs if you like).
Just stay tuned to the MacRumors front page and the answer may come along some day.
'kay?
Nighty night now. Last one out turn off the lights.
Apple needs to stop trying to think ahead with display ports.
They included DVI ports before they were common, so most needed a DVI to VGA adapter, just when they started getting common they moved to mini-DVI, which nothing had native so again.. adapter. Then Mini-Display ports, and adapters again.
I feel like I missed a port, but I think you get the picture. I have a bin of display adapters at work because you never know what make will be trying to connect to what projector or display and not be able to. Guess how many PC adapters I have in bins... NONE. Hell I needed to get adapters just so that I could get the Mac Pros to work with my current Cina Displays that were only 6months old.
They included DVI ports before they were common, so most needed a DVI to VGA adapter, just when they started getting common they moved to mini-DVI, which nothing had native so again.. adapter. Then Mini-Display ports, and adapters again.
I feel like I missed a port, but I think you get the picture. I have a bin of display adapters at work because you never know what make will be trying to connect to what projector or display and not be able to. Guess how many PC adapters I have in bins... NONE. Hell I needed to get adapters just so that I could get the Mac Pros to work with my current Cina Displays that were only 6months old.
Well since you and I both live in the real world let me leave you with this: if the person trying to hook up their MacBook Pro to a projector doesn't bring their own dongle they are an idiot and not prepared to present. Thats the real world. Personally, I would MUCH rather have the thin profile and long battery life that my 15" i7 MBP has and need a VGA dongle vs. Apple trying to cram every different output port on this device and increasing thickness and decreasing battery life.
I mean seriously, how freaking hard is it to carry a VGA dongle in your backpack/briefcase? Higher end systems have DisplayPort (look at the Envy), having a laptop with VGA, SVIDEO, and HDMI is a thing of the past and is now only found on low end crap. Its a $5 dongle for christ sake, if you can spend $1300+ on a system but can't spend $5 on a dongle and remember to bring it with you then I think you have bigger problems.
Actually, Apple only had the DVI ports on the PowerBook / MacBook Pro, Mac mini, and Power Macs / Mac Pros. The mini-DVI ports were primarily on consumer machines, like the regular MacBook, 12" PowerBook, iMac, and later generation Mac minis. This was mostly to save space and not use a port that required a huge connector. During that run, almost all machines came with some sort of adapter in the box to use at least a VGA adapter. I have about 4 or 5 DVI to VGA adapters from the Macs we've owned over the years.
I have a non-unibody MacBook Pro and I'd much rather have a smaller USB-sized connector with an adapter, rather than the rather large DVI connector - it just seems bulky for connecting/disconnecting.
If may, I just want to point out something. If Apple replaces the Mini-DP with HDMI, then we are no longer able to connect our MBPs to anything good (monitors with >1920x1200), and I wouldn't like that. Then they would have to put two different outputs on them, and... why?
Granted, they should include dongles for HDMI and DVI (no one uses VGA anymore), but I still think the Mini-DP is good.
Granted, they should include dongles for HDMI and DVI (no one uses VGA anymore), but I still think the Mini-DP is good.
For starters DVD9 get a life and for everyone else, the future is light peak.
http://www.intel.com/go/lightpeak/
A technology that will replace all cables (got a new monitor connect it to lightpeak, a new TV connect with lightpeak, new hard why not connect it via lightpeak, a new network why not lightpeak)????
http://www.intel.com/go/lightpeak/
A technology that will replace all cables (got a new monitor connect it to lightpeak, a new TV connect with lightpeak, new hard why not connect it via lightpeak, a new network why not lightpeak)????
The future is totally open, nobody knows what computers will have in lets say 5 years. LightPeak has potential but it doesn't mean anything. If industries don't want to adopt it, it will die relatively soon. That means it has to be cheap and easy.
Your statement is as valid as saying that it will rain in New York on 25th of May 2016.
Why would you write such a thing about the Envy? That clearly reads as HP not including an HDMI on the Envy, which is incorrect. This thread was never meant to attack the DisplayPort technology, and no one has ever said that it has any shortcomings other than it not being in wide use.
However, being in wide use is important. HDMI and USB are both in wide use. Both are evolving and will not be going away. Not even five percent of computer users know what a DispalyPort is and the number of those who have heard of Lightpeak is a fraction of one percent. That is why you will not likely see Lightpeak or DisplayPort replacing HDMI or USB at any point in the future that I can foresee. Any manufacturer of TVs, audio/video receivers and cameras that eliminated USB and HDMI in favor of Lightpeak would have to quadruple the number of service operators to deal with the deluge of rage from irate customers who could not plug in any of their devices that they had previously hooked up.
It just is not going to happen.
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So millions upon millions of devices is not wide use?
Sources for that assertion?
That can be said about anything inside a computer. People may know what HDMI and USB is used for but that means nothing. DisplayPort's name already hints that it must have something to do with displays.
How many people had heard about USB in late 90s? How about HDMI in early 2000s? I bet not many. People used something SCART to connect stuff to their TVs. Your statement has no point, it basically states that people hate improvement. If people didn't like new interfaces, we would STILL be using SCART and component to connect devices to TVs. Consumers only care about that it works and if the new thing can do it better, it's always a plus. Wether it's LightPeak, USB or HDMI, it doesn't matter, as long as it does its job.
LP won't just replace everything in one night, it'll take time. HDMI didn't conquer the markets overnight, it took time. If LP can really do what Intel has said, it will be even EASIER than what we've seen before as it can be used in everything. You can use it to connect to a TV or ext monitor, you can connect your iPhone, ext HD etc.... I bet consumers think it's easier to have just one interface that works with all devices rather than some having several different interfaces.
DP has supported 4kx2k resolution at 60hz since at least 1.2 (maybe earlier im not familiar) Not that the resolution is even utilized haha. Just a fun fact
I'll go along with that. We still use VGA on alot of our KVM switching at work, for numerous server bays and workstations.
Well in the "real world" many forget it, and the fact you just used putting form over function makes your comment useless. And long battery life has NOTHING to do with the included ports. They can put on a damn SCSI port, and it won't effect battery unless it's being used.
Want to hook up to a non-Apple monitor? Oh thats $27, AND you want to use a projector? Thats another $27, want to maybe hook up to your TV? That will be $27 more please. My god, even netbooks have HDMI and VGA.
Yup. Lets fill the laptop with every port possible. VGA, DVI, HDMI, hell lets even through in an e-SATA. Why not? People can't be bothered to purchase accessories. Can't forget about expresscard either.
Now imagine what your MBP would look like and the added price.