Why does Apple hate HDMI?

[DVD9]

http://www.directdial.com/P521-AVT.html


Laptops supporting DisplayPort (chronologically):
Apple MacBook, MacBook Pro and MacBook Air use Mini DisplayPort.
Alienware M11x, M15x and M17x.
Dell Adamo 13, Studio XPS 13 and Studio XPS 16, Latitude E6400, E6410, E6500, E6510, Z600 and Precision M2400, M4400, M4500, M6400, M6500, M6500 Covet.
Lenovo ThinkPad X301, T400s, T410s, T410, R500, T500, T510, W500, W510, W700, W700ds, W701, W701ds. (X200s, X200, X200 Tablet, X201s, X201, X201 Tablet support DisplayPort via the optional X200 Dockingstation.)
HP ProBook 5310m, 5320m, 6440b, 6445b, 6450b, 6455b, 6540b, 6545b, 6550b, 6555b, EliteBook 2540p, 8440p, 8440w, 8540p, 8540w, 8740w and Thin-Client t5740, t5745. HP Envy 14 and Envy 17 have Mini DisplayPort.
Fujitsu LifeBook S710, E780 and Celsius H700.
Toshiba Satellite Pro S500, Tecra M11, A11 and S11 with Mini DisplayPort.
Acer Aspire 8930, 8938, 8940 and 8942.
Asus M60J, B43, B53.


Why dont you go troll on one of the forums pertaining to one of those laptops... "Why does fujitsu hate hdmi????? :'(" The adapter is $5, MDP is smaller than HDMI port, MDP has more options than HDMI...why cant you understand this and stop dragging this thread on. AND im sure if Apple did include HDMI, you wouldnt be paying the $.04...more like $100 extra for it.

Well, apparently Fujitsu does hate HDMI. Not many Fujitsu notebooks being sold here in the states though. I've never seen one in person.

The Asus models you name there have DisplayPorts, but they also have HDMI ports, so Asus does not hate HDMI.

The Acer Aspire models you list have HDMI ports, so Acer does not hate HDMI.

Dell XPS, Studio, Vostro and Inspiron laptops have HDMI ports. Dell Latitudes and the oddball Adamo do not.

HP Envy laptops have HDMI. Elitebooks do not, but they do have USB 3.0.

Thinkpads hate HDMI, but as with Fujitsu like VGA. Very strange.

Toshiba Tecra's hate HDMI, Toshiba Satellite models like HDMI.

eSATA may be faster but it's inferior by many means. It can't carry power which means that you need an external PSU. That sucks when you have 2.5" drive that you could use via bus power if you used USB or FW. Besides, mechanical HDs aren't fast enough to take advantage of the extra bandwidth that eSATA provides thus most people just use USB as it's more common and easier.



Intel ain't adopting USB 3.0 before late 2011. That means it won't become the standard before that as most computer don't have it. When Intel adopts it, Apple must too.

Maybe you should try to get your facts right before you start giving false examples. You just turned a mouse into an elephant with this discussion. Seriously, a 10$ adapter can't be that big issue.

I've seen USB power cords for 2.5" drives. One USB goes into the E-SATA and the other into a neighboring USB port for power.

Intel may not be adapting USB 3.0 now, but they will, and some manufacturers are already including USB 3.0 ports on their laptops. HP Elitebooks and some Asus models that I know of. I've only raised this because of the "future proofing" arguement made in support of DisplayPort as if it were the future, when clearly it is not. HDMI is evolving and will not be going away.
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[Alvi]

They don't hate HDMI, but HDMI is better for HD Video (1920x1080) some displays hit more than that resolution and some HDMI Versions only support that (there are also some that support 2560×1600 though)

 

[Mackilroy]

I've only raised this because of the "future proofing" arguement made in support of DisplayPort as if it were the future, when clearly it is not. HDMI is evolving and will not be going away.
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I don't think anyone has made a 'future proofing' argument in and of itself. DP is a better standard now, not at some nebulous point in the future. Also, if I replace 'HDMI' with 'DP' in your sentences, it would sound almost identical. HDMI does not have enough compelling advantages over DP for me to want to see it replace DP or be the dominant standard. Betamax vs. VHS was a different story.

Personally, I hope HDMI does go away and gets replaced by something better. Whether that's DisplayPort or something else doesn't really matter.

 

[seb-opp]

Wow, just read through this thread. OP clearly doesn't get it, despite people explaining it perfectly well so many times.

Bottom line is the industry as a whole agrees HDMI is for the living room, DisplayPort is for the office. Apple clearly doesn't hate HDMI, as its two products which are designed for the living room, AppleTV and Mac Mini (as using it with a hdtv is not uncommon) use - wait for it - HDMI!

All the other macs use Mini Display Port because generally if people want to connect them to screens - its usually at a desk! And of cause Cinema Displays use MDP!

So there's the answer to the original question! case closed.

 

[HLdan]

Well, apparently Fujitsu does hate HDMI. Not many Fujitsu notebooks being sold here in the states though. I've never seen one in person.

The Asus models you name there have DisplayPorts, but they also have HDMI ports, so Asus does not hate HDMI.

The Acer Aspire models you list have HDMI ports, so Acer does not hate HDMI.

Dell XPS, Studio, Vostro and Inspiron laptops have HDMI ports. Dell Latitudes and the oddball Adamo do not.

HP Envy laptops have HDMI. Elitebooks do not, but they do have USB 3.0.

Thinkpads hate HDMI, but as with Fujitsu like VGA. Very strange.

Toshiba Tecra's hate HDMI, Toshiba Satellite models like HDMI.

Who cares about who hates what? Why don't you just man up and admit that you screwed up and didn't check out what you were buying instead of coming here and putting everyone else on the defense and making it everyone else's fault that your Mac doesn't have HDMI. Can't deal with it? Sell it and move on. I'm sure many will agree that we're getting tired of it.

 

[ramzhh]

Wow, just read through this thread. OP clearly doesn't get it, despite people explaining it perfectly well so many times.

Bottom line is the industry as a whole agrees HDMI is for the living room, DisplayPort is for the office. Apple clearly doesn't hate HDMI, as its two products which are designed for the living room, AppleTV and Mac Mini (as using it with a hdtv is not uncommon) use - wait for it - HDMI!

All the other macs use Mini Display Port because generally if people want to connect them to screens - its usually at a desk! And of cause Cinema Displays use MDP!

So there's the answer to the original question! case closed.

I'm sorry, but could you point me out to ONE popular desktop monitor that uses DP?

 

[Hal Itosis]

I'm sorry, but could you point me out to ONE popular desktop monitor that uses DP?

"Popular"?

[hint: the name of this website is MacRumors]

 

[ramzhh]

"Popular"?

[hint: the name of this website is MacRumors]

I used the wrong word, I'm sorry. I meant normal monitors that don't cost 1000$, other than those made by apple.

It's all either VGA, DVI or HDMI.

 

[bigjobby]

I see. One feature exchanged for another. Design and portability for more ports. I get ya. Sorry for the mis-understanding

Cheers

No problem dude.

Well, apparently Fujitsu does hate HDMI. Not many Fujitsu notebooks being sold here in the states though. I've never seen one in person.

The Asus models you name there have DisplayPorts, but they also have HDMI ports, so Asus does not hate HDMI.

The Acer Aspire models you list have HDMI ports, so Acer does not hate HDMI.

Dell XPS, Studio, Vostro and Inspiron laptops have HDMI ports. Dell Latitudes and the oddball Adamo do not.

HP Envy laptops have HDMI. Elitebooks do not, but they do have USB 3.0.

Thinkpads hate HDMI, but as with Fujitsu like VGA. Very strange.

Toshiba Tecra's hate HDMI, Toshiba Satellite models like HDMI.
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The main reason for some expensive laptops to not have HDMI but have VGA is because some of them are designed more for the business market. eg. Thinkpads, (some) Fujitsus, Latitudes etc., where VGA is more useful than HDMI in the business world. I'll let you figure that one out for yourself.

Just because a unit doesn't have a port, does not mean the manufacturer has a 'hate' for its protocol or implementation?

And again from my previous post:

the thread title is nonsense because if Apple hated HDMI, they wouldn't have bothered to modify the displayport to accommodate it.

Case closed.

 

[ramzhh]

The main reason for some expensive laptops to not have HDMI but have VGA is because some of them are designed more for the business market. eg. Thinkpads, (some) Fujitsus, Latitudes etc., where VGA is more useful than HDMI in the business world. I'll let you figure that one out for yourself.

Projectors for presentations!

Did I get it right?

 

[cjdontthink]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLgPwdb4BTM

Best and cheapest way to get connected to a TV through HDMI
Stupid new software update elimintaed undescan though and I cant see my whole screen on the TV

 

[ecschwarz]

I used the wrong word, I'm sorry. I meant normal monitors that don't cost 1000$, other than those made by apple.

It's all either VGA, DVI or HDMI.

Asus, Dell, HP, Lenovo all seem to be embracing it on their newest displays...

 

[ramzhh]

Asus, Dell, HP, Lenovo all seem to be embracing it on their newest displays...

I mean only DisplayPort.

 

[mulo]

Asus, Dell, HP, Lenovo all seem to be embracing it on their newest displays...

any displays out there with dual display port for daisy chaining?
and anything like a mini displayport to displayport?..

 

[tjb1]

I mean only DisplayPort.

Why would they manufacture a display with one input type...so it can be used with one product? Oh and I bet your next response is going to be about the apple displays...

 

[ramzhh]

Why would they manufacture a display with one input type...so it can be used with one product? Oh and I bet your next response is going to be about the apple displays...

That's exactly what I mean. It's not being done and it's not gonna be done in a few years probably.

The Dell displays with a DP input, along with HDMI and VGA, for example. Why the hell did they put a DP in there?

There's no advantage at the moment in having either DP inputs/outputs.

I quote from seb-opp:

All the other macs use Mini Display Port because generally if people want to connect them to screens - its usually at a desk! And of cause Cinema Displays use MDP!

It makes no sense for DP to be available in monitors that also have HDMI inputs, unless their resolution is really really high.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

eSATA may be faster but it's inferior by many means. It can't carry power which means that you need an external PSU. That sucks when you have 2.5" drive that you could use via bus power if you used USB or FW. Besides, mechanical HDs aren't fast enough to take advantage of the extra bandwidth that eSATA provides thus most people just use USB as it's more common and easier.

They already solved that issue by making E-Sata/USB ports. It lets hard drives plug into the E-Sata/USB port and use the data transfer speed of E-Sata and pull power from the USB. Best of both worlds.

now when USB3.0 takes off it will be pushed even father. part of the problem with with USB 2.0 and down is it only stream data up or down. It can not do them both at the same time. USB 3.0 allows simultaneous up and down data transfers.

On USB 2.0 if you are trying to pull data and upload data at the same time it is flipping back and forth between the 2 of them. It really cuts into the speed.

As for HDMI. I feel laptops are the ones that really need HDMI ports on them since people like to hook them up to TV and it makes it really easy for both sound and monitor to be hook up.

 

[Reapur]

I did read the Dell quote and I don't see the guy's point at all.

As for the Precision line, that is marketed toward business, not the general public. Same thing with HP's Elitebook line which also has DisplayPort and not HDMI. I think Dell and HP are both wrong on that given the price they charge. HP has a VGA jack. Clearly that should be an HDMI.

Even so, are you claiming that Apple manufactures the white, childlike in appearance Macbook for the general public, and the MBP line is for business?

Now what would I plug in a DisplayPort cable to other than a dongle?

Panasonic 58" Viera Plasma: HDMI jacks: Three. DisplayPorts: Zero
Sharp - Quattron / 60" LED-LCD HDTV: HDMI jacks: Four. DisplayPorts: Zero

And on it goes with flat panel TVs.

I just bought a Canon Rebel T2i DSLR. It has a mini-HDMI port, it has no DisplayPort. Is my camera too cheap for a DisplayPort? Well, the Canon EOS 5D Mark II, which has been used to make at least two feature films that I know of, has an HDMI port, but no DisplayPort.

Perhaps Canon does not "Think different?"

Nikon D3s ($5,199) has HDMI port, but no DisplayPort.

Pioneer - 770W 7.1-Ch. 3D Pass Through A/V Home Theater Receiver. I see six HDMI ports, no DisplayPort.

So I know what to do with an HDMI port. Now, besides dongles, what would I connect a DisplayPort to?

And while we're on the subject of practicality and the meaning of "Think different", why does Apple still use the obsolete Firewire 800 when the rest of the world has moved on to E-SATA, which is faster. I own an external 1TB drive that has ports for USB 2.0, Firewire 400, and E-SATA (this being best in class until USB 3.0). I have no need for Firewire 800, which is quite scarce and virtually extinct.

Ditch the Firewire 800 port and make one USB into a USB/E-SATA combo and there's room for the HDMI.
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I think you dont even have a Macbook Pro and you're a PC user just here to Troll. And if you have a Mac, then no one forced you to buy it, you obviously knew what you were buying and made the decision to do so. All you are doing is bitching and complaining endlessly. IFFFF you own a Mac and dont like the hardware config, sell it, smash it, burn it, blend it, smash your face with it, I dont care. Just stop your damn whining.

 

[DVD9]

Personally, I hope HDMI does go away and gets replaced by something better. Whether that's DisplayPort or something else doesn't really matter.

Why? How does HDMI not meet your needs?

I believe we have hit the wall when it comes to higher video resolution or better audio. Unless medical science can greatly improve what mother nature provided for us to see and hear with then it's time to move on to something else.
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Who cares about who hates what? Why don't you just man up and admit that you screwed up and didn't check out what you were buying instead of coming here and putting everyone else on the defense and making it everyone else's fault that your Mac doesn't have HDMI. Can't deal with it? Sell it and move on. I'm sure many will agree that we're getting tired of it.

How am I "putting everyone else on the defense"? I just posed a question as to why Apple does not use HDMI on their laptops. Why do some people here feel the need to circle the wagons, lock and load all their rifles, and then begin firing at my head?

If you don't like the discussion then don't click on the thread. That's what I do. The majority of the threads in any forum I participate in do not interest me. Certainly when I recognize one that is annoying to me I avoid it. No one deceived you into returning to this thread. You continue to do that yourself. If you and the others telling me to "shut up" have no self control then you need help. You may be suffering from Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, or something related to that condition.
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[Reapur]

You are a career troll, go back under your bridge. Be gone with your complaining.

 

[Hellhammer]

now when USB3.0 takes off it will be pushed even father.

LightPeak is just around the corner and it's developed by Intel which is the leader in both, CPU and chipset market. If Intel wants to kill USB 3.0, they can do that very quickly. Don't include USB 3.0 in their chipset and include LightPeak in every chipset. It looks like Intel isn't adopting USB 3.0 to their mainstream chipsets before 2012, so USB's future is uncertain. The fate of USB is lying on Intel's hands.

As for HDMI. I feel laptops are the ones that really need HDMI ports on them since people like to hook them up to TV and it makes it really easy for both sound and monitor to be hook up.

True. It just looks like Apple ain't into the idea of adding additional ports and HDMI as only video output would be a downgrade as I've said before.

 

[killmoms]

How am I "putting everyone else on the defense"? I just posed a question as to why Apple does not use HDMI on their laptops. Why do some people here feel the need to circle the wagons, lock and load all their rifles, and then begin firing at my head?

Here’s why: Apple believes computers are computers, and have a different set of uses and design considerations from consumer electronics devices designed to work on TVs. I guarantee you Steve Jobs sees connecting a traditional computer to a TV as a compromise. If you want to do it, fine, here’s an adapter, but there’s no need to have a dedicated port on a space-limited machine like the unibody MBP for connecting the computer to a TV.

If you want a device to sling your media to the TV, get an Apple TV.

Not saying that’s my perspective (necessarily), but I’d imagine that’s the feeling inside Apple. Include HDMI capability on the DisplayPort for people who want it, but stick with DisplayPort for connecting displays (especially since they’d like you to buy Apple’s display to go with your machine).

 

[Mackilroy]

Why? How does HDMI not meet your needs?

Bulkier connectors, more proprietary and expensive, lower maximum resolution, I don't hook up my computers to the TV very often and I already have a simple solution that lets me do so when I need to – need I go on?

 

[cwaddell2002]

Well what would you suggest then?

Why? How does HDMI not meet your needs?
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I have been watching this thread, thought I would chime in...

I run a multiple venue college performing arts center as well as support a number of conference type presentations in other venues on campus. Every Data projector on campus has a VGA interface with some also having DVI. Why not HDMI? (even though the student laptops have an HDMI interface?). HDMI is fussy, it doesn't always work, especially when I need to make a 50' 75', or 100' plus run to the projectors in some of our venues. We have seamless switchers that transition between sources for complex presentations, the HDMI standard and the copy protection scheme would prohibit this. Audio over HDMI? Pain my ass, at some point I need analog signals to send to the sound consoles, we just take right out of the headphone jack, through some audio stuff i won't explain here and send it to our console. Everyone has a headphone jack. Our larger venues all use active baluns to pass VGA signals over CAT 5 to the switching equipment and the projector, if we needed to upgrade we could replace our baluns instead of replacing our infrastructure, but we haven't, and here is why - every laptop (mac and pc) and ipads for that matter, can output a VGA signal. Some need a dongle (and if you saw our dongle storage drawers you would be impressed...), but everything can do VGA, everything can't do HDMI, and even if it could we wouldn't want it to.


Now at about this point, DVD9, I suppose you are saying - well thats a corporate application which doesn't apply to me, i just want to hook up to my tv... and I hear you - my whole home theater is HDMI, and I use HDMI switchers and splitters (from monoprice) to keep it all going. I have dongles to get HDMI out of my HTPC (man Mini 2.26), as well as my MBP. HDMI is a home entertainment display standard. Apple has included the ability to make that work on their laptops, but it isn't a corporate standard, and you would be surprised the number of people who at some point in their lives (or college careers) will have to go in to a classroom or boardroom and make a presentation. Much better for apple to give people the choice with a MiniDisplay Port to adapt to the technology that suits them. I suppose you could say they should have both, but I think thats silly. By that logic they should also include a VGA port for people who present in corporate settings a lot, now we have a laptop with a whole metric ***** ton of connectors on the side. They have chosen the technology that gives the consumer and prosumer the most options, all in one port - it apparently is not ideal for you, but I would argue that a MDP is much more useful for you than VGA, mini VGA, DVI, mini DVI, etc...

 

[ramzhh]

I have been watching this thread, thought I would chime in...

I run a multiple venue college performing arts center as well as support a number of conference type presentations in other venues on campus. Every Data projector on campus has a VGA interface with some also having DVI. Why not HDMI? (even though the student laptops have an HDMI interface?). HDMI is fussy, it doesn't always work, especially when I need to make a 50' 75', or 100' plus run to the projectors in some of our venues. We have seamless switchers that transition between sources for complex presentations, the HDMI standard and the copy protection scheme would prohibit this. Audio over HDMI? Pain my ass, at some point I need analog signals to send to the sound consoles, we just take right out of the headphone jack, through some audio stuff i won't explain here and send it to our console. Everyone has a headphone jack. Our larger venues all use active baluns to pass VGA signals over CAT 5 to the switching equipment and the projector, if we needed to upgrade we could replace our baluns instead of replacing our infrastructure, but we haven't, and here is why - every laptop (mac and pc) and ipads for that matter, can output a VGA signal. Some need a dongle (and if you saw our dongle storage drawers you would be impressed...), but everything can do VGA, everything can't do HDMI, and even if it could we wouldn't want it to.


Now at about this point, DVD9, I suppose you are saying - well thats a corporate application which doesn't apply to me, i just want to hook up to my tv... and I hear you - my whole home theater is HDMI, and I use HDMI switchers and splitters (from monoprice) to keep it all going. I have dongles to get HDMI out of my HTPC (man Mini 2.26), as well as my MBP. HDMI is a home entertainment display standard. Apple has included the ability to make that work on their laptops, but it isn't a corporate standard, and you would be surprised the number of people who at some point in their lives (or college careers) will have to go in to a classroom or boardroom and make a presentation. Much better for apple to give people the choice with a MiniDisplay Port to adapt to the technology that suits them. I suppose you could say they should have both, but I think thats silly. By that logic they should also include a VGA port for people who present in corporate settings a lot, now we have a laptop with a whole metric ***** ton of connectors on the side. They have chosen the technology that gives the consumer and prosumer the most options, all in one port - it apparently is not ideal for you, but I would argue that a MDP is much more useful for you than VGA, mini VGA, DVI, mini DVI, etc...

What you just said here... very intelligent. I wonder what DVD9 has to say now...

By the way, I didn't fully understand what you meant when you mentioned you needed analog audio out. Why analog? Why not digital?