Why I can never switch from an iPhone

[DodgeV83]

Well I asked countless times what does ios do better than android? And people here are given countless of examples why android is more advanced and more user friendly than ios.

Please read the thread, most of the info is in the first post

There have been a few hundreds posts so far, and no one yet has shown that all of this is possible on a competing device. Some of it? Yes. All of it? No.

Of the "Some of it" category, do many of the competing solutions come with bugs, performance issues, and even some hacking required to get the app installed? Yes.

I dont care what that IT guy thinks about it. Its my phone and I can do whatever I want with it. I dont care even if some chimp had put this together on his commodore 64 in the middle of the jungle while jerking off. If it just makes the phone better then I really dont care about the origins of it. Sometimes I just do it for the fun of it. I can always go back to stock.

Yes, just like Windows you can do what you wish with your phone. If you want to install pirated software, or Trojans, or malware, or viruses, you are free to. But if you enter a discussion about security, and say "I can install software updates, replacing my entire OS, from an unofficial random guy on a message forum." expect people to point out how illogical that is.

Yes, you can always go back to stock, which will revert your software to a known good source, but it will not revert your stolen passwords/credit cards if you happen to download a Trojan in the process.

There are paid professionals, with relevant PHDs at security firms, whose main job is to prevent malware, Trojans and intrusions, yet we still hear about hidden Trojans successfully infecting the computers of security firms, often going undetected for months or even years at a time. Considering this, it is illogical to be 100% confident that you have not downloaded something malicious when you are replacing your entire OS with unverified code found from a random post on the Internet.

 

[lordofthereef]

Please read the thread, most of the info is in the first post

There have been a few hundreds posts so far, and no one yet has shown that all of this is possible on a competing device. Some of it? Yes. All of it? No.

The problem I see with this statement is that you have a very specific set of wants. Just take airplay, for example. There is something like it on HTC (not as good). Regardless of whether an Android phone can do 1 million OTHER things (random number for emphasis) that we cannot do in iOS, the simple fact that we have nothing to match airplay will mean that Android can not do "all of the things you mentioned in your original post". Frankly, I am baffled that this thread has gone on this long. The simple answer is that the specific list you mentioned cannot be duplicated on Android the way you want it. This is fine. That's the beauty of choice. Unfortunately people have turned this into a "which OS is better" thread and all such threads end the same; they go around in endless circles.

 

[DodgeV83]

You base your answer on what you have read on a site. I base my opinion on what I have seen in a lab demonstrated to me. Repeatedly. Repeatedly, so when I have to defend my position I know what I am talking about. You don't. If you want send me your iphone, i will collect all the logs.

1. tell you where you have been?
2. who you have been calling/receiving calls from?
3. sending text messages and what's in them?
4. your icloud password?
5. all the sites you have visited, including passwords?
6. anything you have done with the phone. are you sure you want to risk me exposing you and all your dirty little secrets?

How sure are you?

I don't have time to properly reply to your post right now Toothpaste, but I believe your security argument to be invalid. Even if what you're claiming is 100% correct, I'm not sure what that proves. Are you claiming that 100% of all phones are 100% insecure anyway, and anyone can remotely access our credit card numbers at any time, so Android's security issues with malware and lack of security updates are ok?

Also, to debate your point, it sounds like that requires physical access to the phone. It is well known in the security field that "Physical access = Root access". Even then, it cannot give access to logs that aren't generated. Text messages, phone calls, and saved passwords yes (don't save your passwords), but credit card numbers, unsaved passwords, websites visited while in "Private" mode? No.

The security argument currently being posed against Android is not "Physical access = Root access", but "Remote access can sometimes = Root access".

And Brian, let's be nice to Toothpaste, he's one of the few people (though not the only one) who is actually making a debate, instead of purposely pushing logical fallacies to disrupt the conversation.

 

[lordofthereef]

Yes, just like Windows you can do what you wish with your phone. If you want to install pirated software, or Trojans, or malware, or viruses, you are free to. But if you enter a discussion about security, and say "I can install software updates, replacing my entire OS, from an unofficial random guy on a message forum." expect people to point out how illogical that is.

Yes, you can always go back to stock, which will revert your software to a known good source, but it will not revert your stolen passwords/credit cards if you happen to download a Trojan in the process.

There are paid professionals, with relevant PHDs at security firms, whose main job is to prevent malware, Trojans and intrusions, yet we still hear about hidden Trojans successfully infecting the computers of security firms, often going undetected for months or even years at a time. Considering this, it is illogical to be 100% confident that you have not downloaded something malicious when you are replacing your entire OS with unverified code found from a random post on the Internet.

The simple fact here is that trojans and malware on Android have been blown out of proportion. Download from trusted and official sources (ir Google Play and OTA updates) and you will be fine. I have yet to read of a trojan or malware that was injected by downloading from a verified official source. If you make stupid decisions, you are likely to get burned. I guess the diference here is that Apple does not allow you to make those decisions without jumping through a bunch of hoops. That's fine and preferred by millions of people. It does not, however, make Android innately less secure IMO.

 

[DodgeV83]

The problem I see with this statement is that you have a very specific set of wants. Just take airplay, for example. There is something like it on HTC (not as good). Regardless of whether an Android phone can do 1 million OTHER things (random number for emphasis) that we cannot do in iOS, the simple fact that we have nothing to match airplay will mean that Android can not do "all of the things you mentioned in your original post". Frankly, I am baffled that this thread has gone on this long. The simple answer is that the specific list you mentioned cannot be duplicated on Android the way you want it. This is fine. That's the beauty of choice. Unfortunately people have turned this into a "which OS is better" thread and all such threads end the same; they go around in endless circles.

I agree. Both platforms have things the other platform cannot do. I also don't understand why people argue the contrary, but that doesn't mean I can't have fun proving them wrong

In any case, I've received many PMs and read many posts here thanking me for the app recommendations. If anything, I'm glad to be helping people out!

 

[-aggie-]

Please read the thread, most of the info is in the first post

There have been a few hundreds posts so far, and no one yet has shown that all of this is possible on a competing device. Some of it? Yes. All of it? No.

Of the "Some of it" category, do many of the competing solutions come with bugs, performance issues, and even some hacking required to get the app installed? Yes.

.

It is all possible on a competing device, but most of us don't want to go to all the trouble of posting all the software (and we're only talking about software here) that is equivalent to what you use in your special circumstances. Just the other day, I was adding a new clock app, so I'd have a better snooze alarm, and I saw some of the same type of waking apps you described in your OP. Would they be equivalent to you? Who knows? They sure looked it, but from what I can tell, you've got your mind made up anyway. For me, I haven't missed the App Store one bit. The amount of apps on the Android Market that are FREE that do things the iPhone can't do without either being JB or paying for it is amazing. However, you can ask another person, and they'd say you're missing the iOS "experience."

I'm glad we have choices.

 

[briantaylor619]

You base your answer on what you have read on a site. I base my opinion on what I have seen in a lab demonstrated to me. Repeatedly. Repeatedly, so when I have to defend my position I know what I am talking about. You don't. If you want send me your iphone, i will collect all the logs.

1. tell you where you have been?
2. who you have been calling/receiving calls from?
3. sending text messages and what's in them?
4. your icloud password?
5. all the sites you have visited, including passwords?
6. anything you have done with the phone. are you sure you want to risk me exposing you and all your dirty little secrets?

How sure are you?

Pretty damn sure as it's a direct quote from Apple that they don't use carrier IQ on iOS 5 devices.

Really a "lab"? Which lab is that where they demonstrated carrier IQ on an iOS 5 device? I'd be really interested to know

Rumors? This is in the news. There is more to the world than Apple. Read some news before you speculate that I am speculating.

telegraph story

google blog

cnn money

san francisco chronicle

bbc story

Do I need to go on?

Your rumors that Google will work with 5 carriers for 5 nexus devices is pure speculation by the rumor sites.

As for your claim that Google buying Motorola will fix things... how about a direct quote from Andy Rubin who says “I don’t think you should consider Google’s acquisition of Motorola as Google entering the hardware business,” Rubin said. “This is going to be an arm’s-length thing … Motorola isn’t going to get any special treatment.”

http://allthingsd.com/20111019/google-will-operate-motorola-at-arms-length/

Again, I am getting direct quotes while you keep speculating rumors. If you can get me a direct quote from the company saying they will make 5 nexus devices or that Motorola will get special treatment then I'm all ears though

Usually I don't respond to people that clearly want to show me how superior they are, but as the OP stated "do some research first". I am having a debate with the OP so I am addressing his points thus stating that if I don't use a particular category of apps as he does it does not mean that Android is lacking in that area. I just don't use them.

I'm not showing how superior I am. Just that there's no point in trying to respond to a post about being able to use a certain category of apps with an answer like "I don't have time for those."

Not once during my involvement in this thread have I used an analogy about iOS like you have about Android in the below;

Debating is about exposing a weakness in your opponents argument, not attacking your opponent personally. That shows you have no valid point of rebuttal, your emotions have clouded your judgement and have negated any concrete points you might have had.

Are you somehow saying that Android manufacturers DONT put on carrier bloatware and fold to the carrier demands?

Apple doesn't do this for the benefit of the customer, I don't see Android manufacturers doing the same.

No need to be nasty brian....and no I don't get your point.

We agree to disagree. Leave it at that.

I'm not being nasty, simply debating iOS vs Android with you

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[DodgeV83]

The simple fact here is that trojans and malware on Android have been blown out of proportion. Download from trusted and official sources (ir Google Play and OTA updates) and you will be fine. I have yet to read of a trojan or malware that was injected by downloading from a verified official source. If you make stupid decisions, you are likely to get burned. I guess the diference here is that Apple does not allow you to make those decisions without jumping through a bunch of hoops. That's fine and preferred by millions of people. It does not, however, make Android innately less secure IMO.

There have been many malware and virus apps posted to those official Google Play store. This is a byproduct of them not reviewing apps before publishing. One such app from a few years ago gave the attacker root access to the phone. I don't have the links handy, but can provide them later. Just google for "Google Market viruses".

OTA updates that don't come, either because the manufacturer is slow to provide them, or has stopped supporting the device shortly after release, is a big problem.

I would argue that the combination of malware apps in the official store, plus the lack of proper OTA updates, do make Android inherently less secure.

 

[briantaylor619]

Download from trusted and official sources (ir Google Play and OTA updates) and you will be fine. I have yet to read of a trojan or malware that was injected by downloading from a verified official source.

Really?

http://blog.trendmicro.com/17-bad-mobile-apps-still-up-700000-downloads-so-far/ - March 2012 - 17 Malware apps removed from play store with 700,000 downloads already

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2381252,00.asp - March 2011 - 21 Malware apps removed from play store with 50,000 downloads already

http://venturebeat.com/2011/06/13/g...ted-android-apps-targeting-angry-birds-users/ - June 2011 10 malware apps removed from play store

 

[Death-T]

I had an Android Samsung Epic Galaxy S for about a year and for the last 6 months I've had an iPhone 4S. I loved using my Android phone and switched to the iPhone more to try something new than because I was disappointed with my previous platform.

The Android definitely has more in the way of flexibility and customization. This does not necessarily mean downloading pirated software off the Internet--it's just the way the OS is. All your apps are nicely tucked away in a folder, and you choose which ones you want to place on your desktop. This is the same way OS X allows you to minimize desktop clutter with the dock while using Finder or Launchpad to quickly locate other apps you use from time to time. Widgets are also a huge plus. They're rather like what you see in Dashboard on OS X, but instead they blend in nicely on the desktop interface with everything else. The Market has more free apps and allows you to easily download free MP3 clients, video game emulators, and other apps which you will be hard pressed to find on the iPhone's App Store. The best feature of the Market is that it lets you refund purchases a short amount of time after the download if you're dissatisfied with your app. If you spend a couple bucks on an iPhone app that you don't like, then you're SOL. The Android is one of the most flexible, powerful, and user-friendly mobile operating systems ever made.

iOS makes up for its lack of flexibility with its quality and design. Folders provide much in the way of easy organization for your apps, and you can be more certain that the app you downloaded from the App Store isn't complete trash that shouldn't have seen the light of day in the first place. The Android Market has tons of free apps, but you'll often find yourself wading through all the crap to find something decent. Free MP3 clients will help you in the Music department on an Android but it doesn't have a video store that compares to iTunes. Even if it did, you would be stuck watching it on your small screen whereas an iPhone is compatible with an entire ecosystem of products whose hardware and software are both developed by the same company. I can transfer my iTunes purchase to an iPad, my iMac, or instantly stream it on my Apple TV. Though my Galaxy S had a beautiful screen, it can't compete with the retina display.

It's also much easier to jailbreak an iPhone than it is to root an Android. There are only a few different iPhones and one iOS. Firmware upgrades follow an easily understood linear development: 5.0, 5.1, 5.2, etc. You can easily find out how to jailbreak your device if you're interested in the extra features it has to offer, and it's as easy as hooking up your iPhone to the computer and running a program which automatically does everything for you. If you want to root an Android, you have to find just the right fix for the right Android phone for the right model with the right firmware and then deal with a more complicated and drawn out modding process to get the end result. After that, you still might not like what you find. I followed the instructions word per word and my rooted Android simply stopped working a week afterwards. I jailbroke my iPhone in minutes and it's still running strong. If I want to restore it to its previous condition, I can also do that very easily. If you want help with your rooted Android, you will need to find a tech forum very specific to your phone--there are dozens of different Androids like there are dozens of different Windows PCs. There's really only one type of iPhone just like there's really only one type of Mac, and this helps significantly with problem solving.

 

[rever3nce]

STOP feeding this "toothpaste" troll. We all know IOS is better.

people are just hard headed sometimes

 

[DodgeV83]

It is all possible on a competing device

You see what I'm talking about Lordofthereef?

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STOP feeding this "toothpaste" troll. We all know IOS is better.

people are just hard headed sometimes

I don't think he/she is trolling. While many of the points are incorrect, he/she seems to be genuinely making an argument he/she believes to be true.

 

[matttye]

The simple fact here is that trojans and malware on Android have been blown out of proportion. Download from trusted and official sources (ir Google Play and OTA updates) and you will be fine. I have yet to read of a trojan or malware that was injected by downloading from a verified official source. If you make stupid decisions, you are likely to get burned. I guess the diference here is that Apple does not allow you to make those decisions without jumping through a bunch of hoops. That's fine and preferred by millions of people. It does not, however, make Android innately less secure IMO.

Malware can and does exist on the google play store, but Google is pretty good at removing it.

Malware is usually quite hard to find on the store, as most people download from the top free/paid or trending apps, rather than new apps with hardly any downloads. Some malware tries to masquerade as popular apps, but a little common sense goes a long way; if you see something purporting to be the official Facebook app but it only has 1,000 downloads, there's something fishy

I developed a simple test Android app and it is published immediately (as in as soon I fill in all the info and click publish, it's live). My app could easily have been malware.

 

[b24pgg]

We all know IOS is better.

According to whom?

 

[DodgeV83]

According to whom?

Image

That data alone, does not disprove his statement that people think iOS is better, because it does not account for the people who think iOS is better, but cannot afford it.

 

[b24pgg]

That data alone, does not disprove his statement that people think iOS is better, because it does not account for the people who think iOS is better, but cannot afford it.

What source are you using to determine that the average cost to own an iPhone is more than the average cost to own an Android device? Or is that an assumption?

 

[matttye]

That data alone, does not disprove his statement that people think iOS is better, because it does not account for the people who think iOS is better, but cannot afford it.

iPhone 3GS is £319.00 (rip off!!) sim-free these days. That's about the cost of a mid-range Android phone, so I'm sure most could afford it.

 

[briantaylor619]

iPhone 3GS is £319.00 (rip off!!) sim-free these days. That's about the cost of a mid-range Android phone, so I'm sure most could afford it.

http://iphone.appleinsider.com/arti...ples_legacy_models_show_strong_sales_too.html - Article from Oct 2011 detailing how the old iPhone 4 / 3Gs were still the top selling phones even over newer generation Android models.

The findings by Walkley are consistent with his past findings that previous-generation Apple iOS devices often outsell newer Android products. For example, in May he reported that the iPhone 3GS was outselling newer phones like the HTC Inspire and Motorola Atrix at AT&T stores.

 

[matttye]

http://iphone.appleinsider.com/arti...ples_legacy_models_show_strong_sales_too.html - Article from Oct 2011 detailing how the old iPhone 4 / 3Gs were still the top selling phones even over newer generation Android models.

Not sure why you posted that - I was simply refuting DodgeV83's claim that iPhones are unaffordable.

 

[DodgeV83]

What source are you using to determine that the average cost to own an iPhone is more than the average cost to own an Android device? Or is that an assumption?

The average cost is irrelevant. I can walk into Walmart right now and buy a $69.88 Android phone off-contract and get unlimited text and data for $29.99 a month.

When the two items you're comparing have a highly variable cost, you cannot use sales numbers to prove which item people consider to be of highest quality.

 

[briantaylor619]

Not sure why you posted that - I was simply refuting DodgeV83's claim that iPhones are unaffordable.

Guess I missed your point sorry

Thought you we're meaning that iPhones were affordable so they should be more sold... which is why I posted the article showing how they old iphone models were still the top selling phones for AT&T.

 

[cynics]

That data alone, does not disprove his statement that people think iOS is better, because it does not account for the people who think iOS is better, but cannot afford it.

Cost doesn't equal better. I had a house for sale in South Carolina for 6 months. I increased the cost and near instantly got two bids. In the end I settled at 5k above my initial value. This is a real estate technique to make people interested, then make them think they got a good deal. It was a nice place on the beach and in the end was still a good price, however it wasn't better due to the cost.

Apple will sell iPhones for as high as they can as long as people are willing to pay for it.

Besides, with contracts the 3GS is nearly free and the 4 is less then 100 bucks? I highly doubt too many people are overly worried about the cost of a phone nearly every high schooler owns.

And before you say, well the non subsidized price.....think of the people that would be buying them? Financially smart people ie people that can afford that.

 

[saberz]

Just want to say the OP's post is informative and helpful. Its sad to see how this thread degenerated into a tit for tat. OP explained his reasoning for liking the ecosystem, no need to intervene and ruin it by saying Android this or Android that. Its a preference, don't push your opinion on others.

Now back on Topic, a few other apps I came across and really love are Wunderlist(very polished), Waze(per recommendation here, fantastic app), Bill Tracker, Google Search(yes I know, didnt think it would be that great but it is), and Wikipanion.

Waze and Bill Tracker are tops, Wunderlist is up there too! Never would have found em without this thread and members suggestions in other posts.

 

[saberz]

According to whom?

Image

Number of devices versus number of devices. This is moot, and similar to a Mac vs Windows debate. Lets not go there, and stop trying to derail this train.

 

[b24pgg]

When the two items you're comparing have a highly variable cost, you cannot use sales numbers to prove which item people consider to be of highest quality.

By the same token, it's presumptuous to claim that iOS is of higher quality than Android.