Why I'm switching to PC after 17 years of being on a Mac

[thesaint024]

I don't think any $2,500 laptop is priced for the "larger market"

Also... the people complaining about the prices here are MacRumors forum members.

If they are having a problem with prices... lord help everyone else

That is kind of making my point, this is a premium device with a premium price. Those buyers will decide if this is too much to pay or not. "Larger market" refers to the Mac buying market, not the whole PC market.

MacRumors members are vocal subset of Mac buyers. I've been in the Apple/Mac ecosystem for a VERY long time. Just joined MR last month. I've heard a lot of butthurt about pricing from some members, but sales are hardly tanking. There are also MR members who actually purchased a 16 MBP who are talking about their MBP's, not just complaining about the price and not buying one (or not buying for other reasons like their current MBP still serves them).

 

[EndlessBuffoonery]

Yep–it's because of the latest MBP.

A 15-inch laptop has alway fit my workflow. I never needed the power of a MBP, but I did need the screen size. Previously, the MBP had the thinnest body of any 15-inch laptop on the market and also was an all-around good laptop even for the premium price. It made it an attractive buy.

But now Apple's only 15-inch notebook is so overpriced for what you get with it (and that's not including dongles) I can no longer justify the price. Even without the TouchBar the laptop is 2 grand–and that's with only 256GB of storage.

Now if I want an affordable 15-inch laptop that is thin, beautiful and uses the latest component technologies there are plenty of PC laptops that fit the build for half the cost (even three years ago this wasn't true). It's funny, I'd stick with Apple if they had even a 15-inch MacBook for a good price (because, again, I don't need the power of a Pro), but they think only video and photography pros are the ones who want a 15-inch screen so their MacBook line gets relegated to the smallest screen size.

Sigh.

Apple, I loved you and your products. I really did. For years you were awesome. But now you just aren't making the products that people want anymore and charging way too much for the products you are making.

See ya.

I'm sure we'll all miss you sooooo much.
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No one was expecting Apple to drop prices. It is just the hike was a lot more than people expected.

There was no real price hike. They just removed the cheaper (no dGPU) version of the computer.
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What's even better is the people who come to be passive aggressive and act like they don't care they are leaving, yet make a post saying, I don't care, good bye have fun with windows.

Genuinely, nobody cares whether or not you think people who say they don't care actually care.

 

[flyinmac]

I think you'll miss Apple's costumer support, MBP's thermal management and trackpad.

Other companies provide support for their own products.

And personally, my experience is that Apple's support is a pain in the @$$.

I haven't had to try the support options offered by other companies. Simply because I've never had any problems with computers or devices made by any other company.

So while I've had numerous support incidents (exceeding 20 incidents) with Apple over the years, resulting in only one positive customer support agent and one successful problem resolution), I've absolutely never had to attempt to have any other brand of computer repaired.

So, in my experience, the best support, is the device that doesn't fail and require making a support call.

Now I like and use and have owned numerous Apple products. The same can be said of products from other companies. I just wish my experience with Apple's products was as positive as that of other brands.

 

[raqball]

I won't be a rude jack-wagon like some here but will say that you should get what works for you OP, pricing included.. Some take it so personally that I assume they must own millions in Apple stock..

Look... I have the 13" TB base model.. Was this thing worth $1,936.93 after sales tax? No freaking way!

To those defending Apple, let that price sink in for a second...

13" Base with touchbar:

• 2.9GHz dual-core Intel Core i5 processor, Turbo Boost up to 3.3GHz
• 8GB 2133MHz memory
• 256GB PCIe-based SSD
• Intel Iris Graphics 550
• Four Thunderbolt 3 ports

Is that worth $1,936.93? Nope, nada, not even close!

While I am not happy that the Apple tax has gotten out of control, I paid it and have the computer. When I use the computer I am happy for the most part until I think about what it cost.. Realistically this computer should be about $400 less than what it is..

 

[bevsb2]

One of the main reasons I like Apple computers is because of the support which has always been great for me. I live close to an Apple store and have been able to set up appointments easily and have had problems resolved to my satisfaction quickly. I also use chat on occasion for problems and that has worked quite well too. In the past when I used various PCs, the only support available was by phone with long waits on hold and and not always helpful. That may have improved but I'm happy to stay with Apple's great customer service.

 

[skids929]

Not trying to talk you out of it AT ALL. But you WILL be quickly reminded once you go PC why you went with a Mac in the first place years back. You're buying the OS, so you need to figure out a way to overlook the upfront sticker shock and buy the machine and hang on to it for a while so it becomes a better value for you. With a 15 inch machine that should NOT be an issue since they're about as a future proof as it gets.

Windows is not going to be some paradise awaiting to accept you back in asking you for forgiveness. It sucks, I have on in my home, even though I am DEEP into the Apple ecosystem. Why? Because my kids needed a laptop for homework and it was CHEAP!. They don't deserve and Apple machine yet, they won't appreciate it, although I wish I had money to burn because I'd get them one.. Don't get me wrong there is some seducing Windows hardware out there (Lenovo, Surface etc) that can lure you back. But the OS is the OS. This is a software thing, and you get what you pay for in life, remember it, live by it and you will not be as disappointed as you seem to be with the new MBP.

 

[Pootmatoot]

No need to be so melodramatic.

And what is the fascination with announcing to the forum, that one is leaving Mac or Windows? In reality, no one really cares whether you stay with Mac, Windows, or use both.

The issue is this is clearly a wider shift, rather than one individual.

Apple's made a bunch of... odd... choices, and this is the consequence.

 

[rocknblogger]

In large part because the old version was so mature that Apple had already dropped prices, and was offering a version without discrete graphics. How many of you complaining about the price would have chosen that model?

Okay let's put it in perspective. In 2013 I bought a 15" rMBP with 512GB SSD, 16GB RAM AND 2.7 processor. Total was $2799. Due to every part that goes into these should be quite a bit less expensive on the wholesale market I would had expected that same configuration to be around $2200. But today I'd be buying the same configuration I bought for the same exact price. I had expected to get another BTO with 1TB SSD and a 2.9 processor for about $2700.

Apple is very smart as to how they increase prices without most people even realizing they're doing it.

At this point my 2013 runs just fine. I plan on upgrading to a 1TB SSD and keep it for at least two more years and maybe three. If I don't see Apple treating their customers a little better regarding value per dollar spent. I will or sure go with a Windows based laptop and keep building my own PCs. And to be honest since Windows 10 came out I've begun to realize I reach for my PC more and more instead of my MacBook Pro even though I have thousands invested in software.

Apple is not the same Apple that I bought into in the early 00's. yes while they have financially prospered under Tim Cook they have changed their philosophy. They want the MacBooks to be like iPhones. Non-reparable, non-upgradable and replaced in the shortest time possible. They obviously want to appeal to the billions of iOS users and by making the MacBooks as close as possible to the same experiences as iOS gives you, they hope to pull more of those users in. Eventually I believe we'll lose MacBooks in favor of iPads once they figure out how to make them functional enough in comparison to macOS. I feel there are sad times coming in the future. Unless we can replace Mr. Cook with a more product oriented CEO.

 

[thesaint024]

Apple is not the same Apple that I bought into in the early 00's. yes while they have financially prospered under Tim Cook they have changed their philosophy. They want the MacBooks to be like iPhones. Non-reparable, non-upgradable and replaced in the shortest time possible. They obviously want to appeal to the billions of iOS users and by making the MacBooks as close as possible to the same experiences as iOS gives you, they hope to pull more of those users in. Eventually I believe we'll lose MacBooks in favor of iPads once they figure out how to make them functional enough in comparison to macOS. I feel there are sad times coming in the future. Unless we can replace Mr. Cook with a more product oriented CEO.

Not going to speak to Cook not being a "product oriented CEO", jury's still out for me. But I don't think you are being fair about Cook changing the philosophy. This was always Jobs' philosophy. He never wanted any consumer interference in his products. Customers should just accept them as they were because Apple (Jobs) new what was best for them. The recent MBP's not being very modular or internally upgradeable could have been his call, more likely a design choice to save space, but this is not Cook changing any philosophy. I think we were all lucky to have upgradeable Macs previously, because that actually went against what they have been about.

 

[rocknblogger]

Not going to speak to Cook not being a "product oriented CEO", jury's still out for me. But I don't think you are being fair about Cook changing the philosophy. This was always Jobs' philosophy. He never wanted any consumer interference in his products. Customers should just accept them as they were because Apple (Jobs) new what was best for them. The recent MBP's not being very modular or internally upgradeable could have been his call, more likely a design choice to save space, but this is not Cook changing any philosophy. I think we were all lucky to have upgradeable Macs previously, because that actually went against what they have been about.

It's not so much that the MacBooks are not upgradable. It's that under Mr. Cook Apple has been making some odd desissions the latest of which is dropping their routers, getting out of the display business, not releasing timely updates to the entire Mac line of computers, getting into content creation, and the latest increase in prices. Not to mention that nearly everything is glued or soldered making the MacBooks either very hard or in some cases impossible to repair.

I'll grant you that maybe some of the processors weren't ready but there's more to a computer than just a processor. Even smaller incremental updates in dGPU, storage, RAM, increasing clock speed, battery, screen and other things would at least show they care and are continually looking to make the user experience better and the dollar proposition worthwhile. Would they get some heat because no new processor? Probably. But most users around here would understand and appreciate the updates a lot more.

I don't dislike Mr. Cook but his background in operations dictates that Apple's focus will almost certainly change. His entire outlook on things will be different than someone who comes from a products background. It's simply not possible for him to understand user experience the same way a products guy would. This is why the philosophy is changing. One from making the best most user friendly products to great products as long as there's a healthy profit margin. And that unfortunately is becoming the prevalent phylosophy at Apple.

If there's one thing that Steve Jobs understood better than anyone is that user experience is the most important aspect to any product and that the profit will follow if you get it right.

And please don't misunderstand me, I don't think Apple is doomed. They have a nice financial cushion to get past bad times but I do believe that unless Apple gets a CEO who's focus is the product and the user then we could be seeing an Apple that becomes a lot less relevant. Of course they might surprise with some new killer product but I'm skeptical. At this point.

 

[67952]

Fantastic article: "Why I’m Leaving Apple for Microsoft: Switching as a Photographer" http://petapixel.com/2016/12/03/im-leaving-apple-microsoft-switching-photographer/

Some highlights:

[The new MBP] was the turning point. It was at this moment that I looked at Microsoft products objectively.

I didn’t look at it and think, “Hmm, it doesn’t have a slider bar at the bottom for me to adjust critical hue on a photo,” because I know that in no universe would I ever do that. I started a checklist of things I wanted in a computer and was finding that they existed in both platforms. To my surprise, I even found things like a built-in SD card reader to be on some of the Windows laptops whereas Apple has removed them and almost every other port from their newest line (not to mention taking away MagSafe!).​

––––––

By now you are starting to see that my “needs” versus the what I “should have” from Apple’s marketing are in significant contradiction. On one hand, I had a company (Apple) that was “for creatives,” and on the other a company (Microsoft) for the accountants… and then I saw the Surface Studio.​

Whole thing is worth the read though.

 

[ixxx69]

Fantastic article: "Why I’m Leaving Apple for Microsoft: Switching as a Photographer" http://petapixel.com/2016/12/03/im-leaving-apple-microsoft-switching-photographer/

Some highlights:

[The new MBP] was the turning point. It was at this moment that I looked at Microsoft products objectively.

I didn’t look at it and think, “Hmm, it doesn’t have a slider bar at the bottom for me to adjust critical hue on a photo,” because I know that in no universe would I ever do that. I started a checklist of things I wanted in a computer and was finding that they existed in both platforms. To my surprise, I even found things like a built-in SD card reader to be on some of the Windows laptops whereas Apple has removed them and almost every other port from their newest line (not to mention taking away MagSafe!).​

––––––

By now you are starting to see that my “needs” versus the what I “should have” from Apple’s marketing are in significant contradiction. On one hand, I had a company (Apple) that was “for creatives,” and on the other a company (Microsoft) for the accountants… and then I saw the Surface Studio.​

Whole thing is worth the read though.

IMO, another completely sensationalistic and idiotic blog post that uses tons of words to say Apple doesn't cater to "artistic" professionals anymore without being specific - another guy whose main complaint seems to be with Apple marketing.

What are his main gripes? Hard to tell since a lot of it is so intangible, but I think this is a pretty fair summary of what he wrote:

His first Apple computer was a used MBA which he loved, then he eventually got a new MBP, which seemed bigger than necessary for him and he started pining for his old MBA.

He finds laptops are useless as photo processors on studio sets because they need desktops workstation power for that, and that he may as well get a cheap Windows laptop to replace his MBP since Apple laptops don't offer any additional value to him because any computer can do email and web browsing and so what's the point.

He gripes that new versions of macOS have slowed down his old computers.

Typical gripes about how all the ports are gone on the new MBP without ever saying how he would be inconvenienced by that or what it would take to fix it (i.e. buy a $10 new cable/dongle).

That he's realized the whole Apple ecosystem doesn't have value to him and he's ditched the iPhone and Apple Watch.

He thinks Microsoft is more about "creatives" than Apple now with the Surface Studio.​

That's literally about it... go ahead and waste your time reading the linked blog post like I did...

 

[Rafterman]

Wow, the Apple fanboy-ism is strong is this thread. The person gives their opinion (a good bit of it you can't really argue with) and yet all the snide "cool story bro" remarks.

 

[Altis]

Wow, the Apple fanboy-ism is strong is this thread. The person gives their opinion (a good bit of it you can't really argue with) and yet all the snide "cool story bro" remarks.

Yeah, they take it personally. It's not like the thread name doesn't very clearly describe the content.

 

[ixxx69]

Wow, the Apple fanboy-ism is strong is this thread. The person gives their opinion (a good bit of it you can't really argue with) and yet all the snide "cool story bro" remarks.

Re-read the first post. It's summarized as "I'm leaving Apple for Microsoft because I think Apple computers are too expensive".

That is it. Now, I hadn't commented on it myself, but it's hardly "fanboy-ism" for other forum members to call that out for what it is...

 

[Altis]

One of the main reasons I like Apple computers is because of the support which has always been great for me. I live close to an Apple store and have been able to set up appointments easily and have had problems resolved to my satisfaction quickly. I also use chat on occasion for problems and that has worked quite well too. In the past when I used various PCs, the only support available was by phone with long waits on hold and and not always helpful. That may have improved but I'm happy to stay with Apple's great customer service.

The irony is that if you have to make such frequent use of assistance, maybe the products aren't quite as flawless as many like to claim.

 

[ixxx69]

The irony is that if you have to make such frequent use of assistance, maybe the products aren't quite as flawless as many like to claim.

Can you point out where that poster claimed Apple products are "flawless"? Do you know how "frequent" the use of assistance was or what it was for?

 

[Rafterman]

Re-read the first post. It's summarized as "I'm leaving Apple for Microsoft because I think Apple computers are too expensive".

That is it. Now, I hadn't commented on it myself, but it's hardly "fanboy-ism" for other forum members to call that out for what it is...

The 2016 maxed out Macbook Pro is $1000 more than the 2015 version, despite modest improvements. His comment was fair.

 

[Altis]

Can you point out where that poster claimed Apple products are "flawless"? Do you know how "frequent" the use of assistance was or what it was for?

The poster described it as many uses of assistance... enough so to be the primary reason given for staying with Apple.

My point wasn't specific to that poster, only to say that it's ironic to choose to stay with something that requires enough trips to get serviced that the service becomes a primary deciding factor.

I had a Ford recently that had amazing customer service whenever it went wrong. I could come in anytime, leave it and get a free service loaner with free gas -- best service I've ever had from any dealer on any car... but it went wrong a lot.

Now I have a car that hasn't gone in beyond regular maintenance. Sure, I won't get a service loaner if it needs warranty work, but it's still more convenient that it doesn't need to go in to begin with (touch wood!).

 

[ixxx69]

The 2016 maxed out Macbook Pro is $1000 more than the 2015 version, despite modest improvements. His comment was fair.

Whether it's a "fair" assertion or not is a matter of opinion, but it's the kind of opinion that the vast, vast majority of forum finds unnecessary to be shared, and the forum was expressing that. The OP had a right to express it (as long as the Mods don't care) and the rest of the forum has a right to tell him what they think of him sharing it.

But a large part of the pushback is because people like you, who make these ridiculously disingenuous comparisons about price... i.e. comparing MAXED OUT prices of one model versus another, instead of comparing base prices between like-configured models... Apple now offers additional options that didn't exist before, that cost more money, i.e. a 2TB SSD that wasn't available on previous MBP's.

And before you comment further on the price to me, I literally couldn't care less. You either can afford their products or you can't. If a few hundred bucks difference is a deal-breaker for a MBP, then you can't afford it. That sucks for you (and I've been there myself), but if you think that's worth announcing to the world in a forum post, you're going to get ridiculed.
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The poster described it as many uses of assistance... enough so to be the primary reason given for staying with Apple.

My point wasn't specific to that poster, only to say that it's ironic to choose to stay with something that requires enough trips to get serviced that the service becomes a primary deciding factor.

I had a Ford recently that had amazing customer service whenever it went wrong. I could come in anytime, leave it and get a free service loaner with free gas -- best service I've ever had from any dealer on any car... but it went wrong a lot.

Now I have a car that hasn't gone in beyond regular maintenance. Sure, I won't get a service loaner if it needs warranty work, but it's still more convenient that it doesn't need to go in to begin with (touch wood!).

That's a fine example, and it's a good point in an appropriate context. But I hope you don't pull it out every time someone says they appreciate that Apple offers some of the best customer support in the business (especially for a HUGE tech company).

Apple's customer support actually has tremendous value to a lot of Apple's customers. It is one of the primary differentiators between Apple and their competitors, and it's something that's often lost amongst the tech enthusiasts here who are used to (and capable of) figuring things out on their own.

 

[bevsb2]

The irony is that if you have to make such frequent use of assistance, maybe the products aren't quite as flawless as many like to claim.

Actually over the past 7 or so years that I have been using Apple products my need for support has been infrequent and the problems have not been significant. Most problems have been software related. It is nice however to be able to get prompt service from courteous and qualified technicians.

 

[thesaint024]

Fantastic article: "Why I’m Leaving Apple for Microsoft: Switching as a Photographer" http://petapixel.com/2016/12/03/im-leaving-apple-microsoft-switching-photographer/
Whole thing is worth the read though.

We were just talking about this in another thread. No opinion on his choice but his reasoning is simply attention grabbing stupidity.

To paraphrase: I have no heavy technical needs. I can work on any computer. Apple doesn't cater to "creatives" any more, even though I don't have any specific creative needs. I will consider a Surface now because MS acts like they care about creatives, no specifics. Macs are the creative's preferred solution. I am so cutting edge I will go against the grain and get a PC.

Even more succinctly: MBP's are douchey laptop of choice, and I'm going to out-douche them by getting a PC.

Read "article" at your own risk. You will kill brain cells and end up shopping at CB2 this afternoon.

Disclaimer- I use PC's. they are the appropriate tool in many cases. No problem with choice to use one.

 

[67952]

Ugh. Okay, I've just read a bunch of these comments (I'm the OP).

I want to state two things regarding assumptions and assertations fanboys (of any brand) usually lob at you when you criticise a product made by, or the direction of, the company they love:

The first is they assume that because you say something has gotten too expensive they think you can't afford it. In this case I was talking about Apple's only 15-inch laptop. Can I afford a $2200 base MBP? Yes. Can I afford the maxed out $3-4,000 MBP? Yes. Being able to afford something and finding it worth the cost are two completely different things.

I can afford the $90,000 car, but I chose to by my cheaper $65,000 car because I couldn't justify the premium price for the other car with any of the supposed benefits it had to offer. Would spending an extra $25,000 on the "best" car had brought me any benefits? No–so I choose to be rational and go with the lower price "better" (as in good, better, best) option. Again, this is a personal choice and reflects my unique needs.

Apple used to have more affordable 15-inch laptops than they do today. Also, even though Apple's 15-inch offerings were always more expensive than PC offerings, it used to be that other 15-inch PC laptops could not compete with the sleek design of the MBP, so the premium Mac price was worth paying for the MBP even if it was more power than you needed. That is no longer the case. Now PC laptops can compete on design–and they now certainly compete on components and ports–and they do so for half the price. That makes what Apple is currently offering inferior to what other PC manufacturers are currently offering for my unique needs.

The second observation I want to make is about the rabid attacks fanboys make when you dare to say you are switching to another brand. And please don't think this is specific to Mac fanboys (and I was one–I worked for the company for the better part of the last decade and still own a lot of their stock––soI hope they have continued success).

Back in 2013 there was an article (maybe on Engadget or another similar tech site) about research psychologists did into the nature of "fanboyism". They specifically looked at iPhone versus Android fanboys. They found that the reason "fanboys" react so strongly to criticisms of their brands and label other people "too dumb" or "too poor" or "too whatever" to use their product comes down to the fact that they are afraid the other person's opinion might mean that they are actually wrong about their beliefs in their favorite brand. And they can't tolerate the fact that they may actually be wrong, so they lash out at others who use different products or who say they are going to switch away from their brand.

In other words, someone else's opinions made them doubt themselves and their intelligence, so they lashed out in defense to protect their ego.

It was an exceptionally interesting study and if anyone can remember it, please post the link here. It's that study that I thought of after reading many of the harsh comments to my original post here.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[xraydoc]

I'm very happy with the performance and design of the new machines, particularly the 15" (which I've exchanged my 2016 13" for), and have no issue with the ports or perceived lack there of. The prices, however, should start at $1299 for the 13" and should be $500 less for the 15" models.

 

[Mr. Dee]

I purchased my first Mac last year; I also picked up an iPhone 6s with it. Initially, I wanted to get the 15 inch model. Later I decided on getting the 13 inch model instead; since the 15 was a generation behind in CPU and I was spending so much already with the iPhone. I could not be more happy with my 13 in Broadwell. Its fast, it does all I need in terms of running a couple Windows VMs, Office, iTunes, multiple browsers with lots of tabs.

Users need to evaluate purchasing a computer based on their needs, not necessarily getting the very best. Of course, my decision was a mixture of bang for buck and technology. A lot of the complaints about the 2016 MacBook Pro I believe centers around, I can't afford the latest, so I am going to knock it in anyway I can; whether that be ports, performance or technology. Remember, this is a Rev A of a new generation. As a business, I am sure Apple wants to upsell you to a higher end model, but it is ultimately up to you the consumer to determine what you really need. I am also sure, Apple will drop the price on all entry level models next years revision and maybe reintroduce a 15 inch model Iris graphics only at an attractive price point.

Where we have arrived with technology, doesn't mean bankrupting yourself. At the end of the day, the crown jewel of owning a Mac is the operating system. I am able to run it without hindrance and enjoy all its benefits on certified hardware.