That's what MPBs were.
They're now sub-premium products at premium prices.
By next Christmas, when Kabylake and Nvidia 1050s are widespread, budget $800 Windows laptops will have more grunt than Apple's $4000 bells-&-whistles offering.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Why I'm switching to PC after 17 years of being on a Mac
- Thread starter 67952
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
That's what MPBs were.
They're now sub-premium products at premium prices.
By next Christmas, when Kabylake and Nvidia 1050s are widespread, budget $800 Windows laptops will have more grunt than Apple's $4000 bells-&-whistles offering.
Apple f's up. They did under Jobs as well. I think Cook gets a bad rap for being the "ops guy" and not a designer or product guy. All the exec team grew up in an Apple under Jobs and for the most part share his vision. If they didn't, they'd be gone. I also don't see any of these decisions as that odd. Killing uprofitable lines is smart, not odd. If you recall, that's exactly what Jobs did when he returned. I'm not taking Cook's side, just saying I think the jury's still out. Even though he's brought Apple to unprecedented profitability, they haven't been making sell out decisions. They're still doing crazy Apple stuff like killing ports and weathering heavy criticism for design choices.
All this Jobs talk about "never would've happened under Jobs" is romantic thinking. It did happen several times. Apple f's up, they course correct, and keep moving forward. Cook has had a couple high profile UI issues under his watch, but it would've happened under Jobs too probably. Maybe a couple times less, but we'd also not get releases either because of his perfectionism. Cook is just finding a different balance than what Jobs had, little more reasonable in my opinion compared to Jobs' neurotic perfectionism. Just an amateur psychologists take on it. I miss Jobs too, but his legacy is hardly dead.
Agreed. For most its about having the latest and greatest.
Just that this time, the price seems high. I remember getting the 2012 max model, from what I remember it was also very expansive, that is what you get when you buy a Rev A apple product with a new design.
Ive been testing a max 2012 v 2015 max v 2016 2.7 460......the 2012 holds its own still for many tasks, the 2015 beats the 2016 in some, there is no reason to jump ship from apple yet....the 2015 is a top machine, even value wise. Don't see any reason to jump ship over the 2016 machine, in many ways its a 2015 performance in a 2016 redesign..... heck for some jumping from a 2012 is not worth it....
When Apple went to Intel cpu's there pricing was similar/competitive. When I bought by 2006 I did comparisons with all the similar pc's and when you optioned them with the same components they were all within $100. Not true anymore.
So we agree on the premium price. It's irrelevant to me if it's $1000 more or $100 more because it's a simple value equation. Is it worth it to me at X price? However, some of us don't agree with the sub premium product part as evidenced by our purchases. I think we all just value different things. If you value straight spec comparisons, there will always be a PC or 5 that on paper blow Macs away. I know it's soft benefit, but we all keep touting user experience and design. Like on the phone side, Samsungs always seem to have these insane features or specs. They just don't put the package together very well. I feel the same way about PC's. They are all so close in features and look now, it just needs to be put together better. That's why the manufacturers of these crazy spec PC's don't destroy everyone on sales. That may not be what everyone is looking for. I use PC's for different reasons. UI and design are not among those reasons. Going back to the phones, my Android friends will always say "but mine has Xghz and this and that". I like that I know what to expect and that my camera loads instantly. Stupid UI things that other manufacturers don't prioritize.
[doublepost=1480885115][/doublepost]
I don't believe anyone (that I know of) is advocating ditching a 2015 for a new 2016, even for what the redesign brings. That kind of move (one year turnaround) is usually hard to get ROI. Most 2016 purchasers come from older machines and generally have seen a huge upgrade. You are doing "testing" and comparing spec to spec, so you're looking for specific uses for the 2016. Your use case may be different. For those coming from 2012, or definitely earlier, it is a big step change on all fronts.
That's a good point about the people who were under Jobs and his legacy.
Steve Jobs was unusual that he was the CEO... and he was also a product guy, user-experience guy, design guy, etc. Not many companies have a CEO like that.
Steve may be gone... but there are still thousands of people contributing to each Apple product. And most of those people worked under Jobs and should still share his vision.
So what's happening today? Are Apple's engineers still dreaming up great products... but Tim Cook is crippling them or killing them?
I don't know.
But it's safe to say that Tim Cook is NOT in the lab designing silicon, camera systems, interface hardware, etc. Those tasks are still being done by the people qualified to do that stuff... as it should be.
I'm sure the people at Apple are still capable of creating great products... but maybe Tim Cook is saying "NO" far too often.
Actually my current machine is a max 2012 model, I bought a 2015 and 2016 machine to see which is the better upgrade. So far the 2015 max is 2300 pounds while the equivalent 2016 is 3300 pounds....part of me is now thinking if there is 2300 pounds worth of upgrade from the 2012 model.....for my needs. The winner seems to be the 2015 model, cause for the extra 1000 pounds makes little sense for a new design.
Anyway, that is where I am
[doublepost=1480885790][/doublepost]
I wish Apple had gone with Nvidia, though like they had much of a choice given they the thinness of the new machine. Id happy to go back to the same thickness as the old machine with Nvidia graphics.
You did your value equation and the 2015 is the one, maybe even the 2012. You won't get many people criticizing your decision or those MBP's because we are all Apple fans. Everyone has venerable respect for past MBP's. The 2016 bashing is just stupid and misguided. That's all.
When I come to my car retailer and say " I want the new 2017 Audi, will all security and driving help improvements, at the price of last year's car, even though the price has increased of 5%... " he will say "go the the bargain car office, next door, please"
Why should Apple behave differently than car manufacturer. When there is a technological gap...you pay more for R&D ROI
You clearly missed the point that, back then, he/she didn't find an alternative thin laptop so decided to go with it.Cool story Bro. I guess you forgot about the old days when the 15" MacBook Pros cost over $2K.
Also, the ew 15" aren't even 2 grand, they are more!
He was also a guy who liked to take the limelight for things he had little to do with. Even Ive has said that he took too much credit for things.
No, the fanbois took offense to criticism, and someone trying to share why they feel abandoned by Apple.
The title told you what the topic was going to be about, yet you still came in to berate others for THEIR opinions.
Perhaps you can avoid these threads in the future, and save us all a lot of grief.
[doublepost=1480894443][/doublepost]
You just know the comparison threads will be filling up this forum. Some folks here are going to have to take a break, or they will lose their minds.
$1k vs $4k comparisons as far as the eye can see.
I REALLY wish it wasn't needed, but with the Apple of today, it is needed. As someone said prior, just a couple years ago, you could price out the components, and the MBP was about $100-$200 more, now its many times that.
OP - I went to look for a 2015 MBP in the refurb store, to recommend to you, but it seems that soooooo many people are less than thrilled with the 2016 MBP, that they bought out the entire stock of refurbed 13" and 15" MBPs. I can't remember the last time I saw both the 13" and 15" completely sold out on the refurb site.
Last edited:
Against my better judgment, I felt like addressing a couple things in your post. Full disclosure, I own a 16 MBP and love it. So by your definition, I'm a fanboy.
Some are annoyed at this post and similar ones because it is received as unnecessary and dramatic. Apple "abandoned me" or "lost touch with the Pro base" or some other poetic way to avoid saying "I can't/won't pay Apple tax any longer". That d-bag photographer article that was linked here is case in point. It's not really about losing an SD slot or reason x. Call it what it is, don't say that the '16 MBP sucks because that's just horses**t. Underwhelming compared to the '15? I can accept that as a debatable argument.
To be clear, I am not making some elitist statement about the affordability. This has nothing to do with how much money anyone has, just about whether or not one is willing to part with money for this iteration of the MBP to meet their needs.
Sorry, but I just think this whole hater approach is rather stupid. I would have thought "haters" would love all these "fanboys" beta testing at these "unreasonable" prices for when the prices drop in the next revision. Are haters doing this so that they throw in a dongle? If the objective is to actually get Apple to lower their prices NOW, history (and supply/demand) says it won't happen. And you don't actually want Apple to roll back these advancements do you? If it's trying to feel better about "only" having a pre-'16 MBP, then it can be solved by getting a '16, which may be about the ability/willingness to pay the Apple tax again. People have a right to express shock or dismay about pricing. I just don't understand beating it death, as if it were for a purpose, especially if you don't have a '16 MBP.
Also, a couple points I couldn't let go:
"comparison threads will be filling up this forum" - This really is what the "haters" do wouldn't you say? They like to compare how you can get an i7 for half the price of an MBP and how this benchmark shows Macs are slower in this or that. Most happy owners of MBP's, or "fanboys", don't seem to care as much about specs, just the cliche'd "it just works" thing. But people will always want to justify their purchase or non-purchase with rationale.
"soooooo many people are less than thrilled with the 2016 MBP" - Is hyperbole because I'm pretty sure you don't know this for a fact, and I'm pretty sure it's wrong. Record sales, pent up demand, and holiday season probably have a little to do with this.
Your argument would make sense if there had actually been a technology upgrade. But what Apple is delivering is not an upgrade - for most customers it's likely a downgrade. I bought one, but mainly because I'm probably more of a fanboi than I'd like to admit. And I'm almost willing to bet that most people who pre-ordered and bought one now before Christmas are like me. At this price point, I predict a sharp crash in sales after the holiday season.
History will tell us about future sales...
Regarding 2016 MBP, what look like some gimmicks is in important change, I.e. The new form factor t new fram, new mother bord architecture , new cooling , improve display, MagSafe removing (hah, joke) etc etc. This has a cost. High cost means high price. What I (edit) DON'T admit and blame is the curious behaviour of Apple regarding the exchange rate between Euro /chf and dollar. .. this is another story
Last edited:
Your fingers "hurt"??? Seriously???
We've been working on these machines for days and after as brief adjustment, we all agree (at our office) that the new keyboard is not only better feeling, but actually makes for faster typing due to no wobble.
But I really want to know how you hurt your fingers! I'm sorry, but that's just ridiculous, unless you have some sort of fingertip condition.
Oh, and I have a nice 15" MacBook Pro sitting right next to my new 13" and they handle RAW and TIFF files equally well, so clearly the new 13" is faster than the previous. Speed of these machines is very dependent of what you're doing and the software being used. Lightroom is wicked fast on my new MBP for example.
Battery life is stellar. I only plugged in at 10:00 tonight after a whole day of usage, easily 9-10 hours with the screen two clicks below full brightness. Perhaps you had a lemon, but tests already show great battery life.
If the new machine doesn't meet your needs, get something else. I don't see another computer with this screen and overall quality out there. I do like the top level Surface Book, but that's 2800 bucks and still has its own issues.
R.
Right, because comparing existing hardware to non-existing hardware makes so much sense.
Well...for some, their fingers may hurt when using the new keyboard. Not really ridiculous. It is no secret we are all wired a bit differently...and have ever so slightly different ways of doing the same things. For example...typing. I used the new MBP for 4 days and I sent it back. To be honest, I was not really leaning on keeping it cause of the cost but as with all my Apple purchases, I eventually digest the cost and justify it somehow to purchase it. Not with the 2016 though. The keyboard is atrocious IMHO...or a better way to put it....it does not work for me. It is like typing on a flat surface. For small periods of time, this maybe ok but not for extended durations....say 10 hours per day (I am a programer)
On another note, here is a little something about photoshop performance
I can't blame the OP for wanting to switch, here's my thoughts though I'm sure some of them have been repeated by others.
Overall, this is the first laptop from Apple that seems less then the sum of its parts and inferior to the prior generation. Adding insult to injury, Apple raised the price.
- The MBP is very expensive, MPBs were always pricey but having Apple raise the price seems like a bad move.
- The battery is smaller and many people are reporting less battery life then the prior model.
- The CPU (the GPU too?) is performing slower then the prior generation
- Removing components that people rely on, this includes the SD card slot, magsafe and HDMI
- The keyboard is a point of contention, some people love it, others do not.
- The track pad, seems too big and some folks don't like the force touch
- Touch bar - seems more gimmicky, and less efficient then using keyboard shortcuts.
Overall, this is the first laptop from Apple that seems less then the sum of its parts and inferior to the prior generation. Adding insult to injury, Apple raised the price.
Congratulations to OP, I wish I was as brave as you are but OS X is very dear to me.
I am going to buy the '13 2015 model, when I realized I will be paying $1800 for a computer that is 2 years old (early 2015 model). Can you imagine this? $1800 for 2 year old technology? The funny part its actually cheaper and better than the 2016 model if you consider its just as fast, has ports (win convenience and save $ on dongles), longer battery life, and has none of the issue with the new MBP like graphics fail, blowing speakers, and the butterfly keyboard.
Tim Cook thinks he is building computers for Victoria Secret models and not real computer users.
I am going to buy the '13 2015 model, when I realized I will be paying $1800 for a computer that is 2 years old (early 2015 model). Can you imagine this? $1800 for 2 year old technology? The funny part its actually cheaper and better than the 2016 model if you consider its just as fast, has ports (win convenience and save $ on dongles), longer battery life, and has none of the issue with the new MBP like graphics fail, blowing speakers, and the butterfly keyboard.
Tim Cook thinks he is building computers for Victoria Secret models and not real computer users.
Your argument would make sense if it were factually correct. Let's see what's upgraded in the 2016 Pros -- fastest available Intel mobile processor, better screen will larger color gamut, new keyboard with better feel, TouchID, fastest SSDs on the market up to 2TB, faster RAM, Touch bar, four of the newest ports with universal support for power, the fastest USB, the fastest Thunderbolt, support for legacy HDMI and DisplayPort, ethernet, Firewire. I'd say that's quite an upgrade. People are griping about the 16GB RAM limitation and I can give them that, but even that is not a downgrade, as it's the same as the 2015 model.
but it's not really over priced, it's right in the price range. It's in the price range of all previous 15 macbook pros.
What exactly is a "necessary" post? Most message boards are "unnecessary". But people come here to eek help, expres opinions and talk.
Last edited: