Why is it so hard to get excited for the new iPhone?

[BenTrovato]

Ticking people off? How do you know how many people are ticked off? I'm not.
[doublepost=1471356932][/doublepost]
my iPad 2 is quite usable on 9.3.4. And for an almost 6 year old device has current functionality and a patched operating system.

Definitely not everyone is ticked off. If you've been around long enough you remember how excited everyone was for every single upgrade. Now people cling to their devices hoping to get the most out of them. It's too expensive to upgrade all the time (for most people).

 

[I7guy]

Definitely not everyone is ticked off. If you've been around long enough you remember how excited everyone was for every single upgrade. Now people cling to their devices hoping to get the most out of them. It's too expensive to upgrade all the time (for most people).

Cell phones were always expensive. It's just that the cost was buried in your cell phone plan. Now that the subsidies are gone and plans are (supposedly) cheaper you can finance a phone theoretically working out the same.

 

[Radon87000]

Well, like I said: deflected, spun, and ignored as usual. Seems like my point still stands, also as usual.

Not at all.Do you think Steve didnt know increasing the size would increase sales?Of course he did.He ,unlike Tim,isn a sell out though.He maintained Apple's core philosphy.Tim is destroying it .We have 3 goddamn iPhones and 5 IPADS (Seriously?) and if that wasnt enough dont even get me started on how fragmented the Mac lineup is

 

[comptr]

I would never consider an Android so what the other manufacturers have done is of no interest to me.

Where I used to be able to purchase the iPhone 6 via AT&T for $299 and then sell the phone 2 years later for the same $299 I will now have to spend $700 with no hope of recouping that all. And I have a family of 6 with 4 iPhone's in use, that's $2,800 I'll spend and perhaps only get back $1,000 years down the road. There is nothing incremental enough in the 7 to make me want to lose that much money on the 6's I already have, and they will cost me $0 over the next two years instead of $2,800.

BJ

Sorry but carriers like Verizon still offer 2 year contracts for current customers. Also I still do what you just said where you sell off your phone for the 2 year price, I just did it on my 6 Plus. Also on larger data package plans Verizon gives 24.99 towards device payments if you have the older plan. So now it's even easier to make the money back.

 

[paul_ryp]

Ive just ordered a samsung Edge S7. Comes tomorrow got it for free and reduced my monthly by £20. After 3 years of stagnation i feel like I'm getting a new phone. Might be back in 2 years if Apple starts to innovate again.

 

[I7guy]

Not at all.Do you think Steve didnt know increasing the size would increase sales?Of course he did.He ,unlike Tim,isn a sell out though.He maintained Apple's core philosphy.Tim is destroying it .We have 3 goddamn iPhones and 5 IPADS (Seriously?) and if that wasnt enough dont even get me started on how fragmented the Mac lineup is

It sounds like Tim gave his customers what they want and YOU don't like that. SJ is dead, he could have sunk the company in 2016. Apples core philosophy has changed, and for the better. You can get used to it or love to Samsung.

 

[boltjames]

Cell phones were always expensive. It's just that the cost was buried in your cell phone plan. Now that the subsidies are gone and plans are (supposedly) cheaper you can finance a phone theoretically working out the same.

That's completely incorrect, at least for those of us using AT&T.

The largest capacity iPhone was always around $800 to purchase and $399 subsidized on a 2 year contract. At the end of the 2 year contract the phone was yours, you could sell it for $399 on Craigslist, and in effect the iPhone was free.

Today's AT&T NEXT program replaces the old 2 year contract model. Today you don't have to put down $399 but over the course of the 24 months you pay the full unsubsidized price of $800. ATT hides this in the fact that most people are happy they don't have to fork over $399 and ignore the fact that they're paying 2x for the iPhone because it's in small monthly installments, no different than credit cards for people who can't afford a vacation.

The iPhone on AT&T is not cheaper and the plans are not cheaper. In the end consumers are paying full retail for their phones, not Apple, not the carrier. If I went with the iPhone 7 on ATT NEXT I'd have a phone worth $399 at the end of the two year term but I will have paid $800 for it. We have 4 iPhone's in the family. It's gone from an easy decision to an opt-out. Between the loss of the headphone jack, a boring iPhone 7 release, the 2x price increase, and an iPhone 6 that is still a fantastic product, Apple is set up for a troublesome iPhone 7 launch. I'm selling my stock positions, in fact.

BJ

 

[Radon87000]

It sounds like Tim gave his customers what they want and YOU don't like that. SJ is dead, he could have sunk the company in 2016. Apples core philosophy has changed, and for the better. You can get used to it or love to Samsung.

lol.He rescued the company from bankruptcy and is responsible for inventing all 4 of its star products.Just because YOU think Tim is better doesnt mean he is.He will always be second best to Jobs

 

[I7guy]

lol.He rescued the company from bankruptcy and is responsible for inventing all 4 of its star products.Just because YOU think Tim is better doesnt mean he is.He will always be second best to Jobs

By that reasoning just because you think jobs is better doesn't mean he really was. Tim took the company to a lofty status that Steve couldnt.
[doublepost=1471367769][/doublepost]

That's completely incorrect, at least for those of us using AT&T.

The largest capacity iPhone was always around $800 to purchase and $399 subsidized on a 2 year contract. At the end of the 2 year contract the phone was yours, you could sell it for $399 on Craigslist, and in effect the iPhone was free.

Today's AT&T NEXT program replaces the old 2 year contract model. Today you don't have to put down $399 but over the course of the 24 months you pay the full unsubsidized price of $800. ATT hides this in the fact that most people are happy they don't have to fork over $399 and ignore the fact that they're paying 2x for the iPhone because it's in small monthly installments, no different than credit cards for people who can't afford a vacation.

The iPhone on AT&T is not cheaper and the plans are not cheaper. In the end consumers are paying full retail for their phones, not Apple, not the carrier. If I went with the iPhone 7 on ATT NEXT I'd have a phone worth $399 at the end of the two year term but I will have paid $800 for it. We have 4 iPhone's in the family. It's gone from an easy decision to an opt-out. Between the loss of the headphone jack, a boring iPhone 7 release, the 2x price increase, and an iPhone 6 that is still a fantastic product, Apple is set up for a troublesome iPhone 7 launch. I'm selling my stock positions, in fact.

BJ

Right, the cost was buried in your plan and commitment for a 2year stay. Now you pay full price, except vzw customers still can purchase a subsidized phone.

I'm holding on to my stock, which I've had for a while.

 

[comptr]

That's completely incorrect, at least for those of us using AT&T.

The largest capacity iPhone was always around $800 to purchase and $399 subsidized on a 2 year contract. At the end of the 2 year contract the phone was yours, you could sell it for $399 on Craigslist, and in effect the iPhone was free.

Today's AT&T NEXT program replaces the old 2 year contract model. Today you don't have to put down $399 but over the course of the 24 months you pay the full unsubsidized price of $800. ATT hides this in the fact that most people are happy they don't have to fork over $399 and ignore the fact that they're paying 2x for the iPhone because it's in small monthly installments, no different than credit cards for people who can't afford a vacation.

The iPhone on AT&T is not cheaper and the plans are not cheaper. In the end consumers are paying full retail for their phones, not Apple, not the carrier. If I went with the iPhone 7 on ATT NEXT I'd have a phone worth $399 at the end of the two year term but I will have paid $800 for it. We have 4 iPhone's in the family. It's gone from an easy decision to an opt-out. Between the loss of the headphone jack, a boring iPhone 7 release, the 2x price increase, and an iPhone 6 that is still a fantastic product, Apple is set up for a troublesome iPhone 7 launch. I'm selling my stock positions, in fact.

BJ

Sorry but is not apples fault that your carrier dropped 2 year contracts. Also it seems your on a older plan, the newer shared data plans come with $$ towards the device payments.

 

[Zaft]

Unlike Tim,Jobs didn't focus on getting profit no matter what.Increasing screen size to boost sales by copying what the competition does using your own strengths to magnify it was a short term manoeuver and it fizzled out shortly after iPhone 6 launched.Now key revenue indicators are dropping.If Steve were alive he would be focused on redefining other product categories(Hint-Its not audio innovation or removing antenna bands or birthday emojis)

I think Steve would of waited another year to make a bigger screen. BUT he would of been livid with the antenna bands.

 

[boltjames]

Right, the cost was buried in your plan and commitment for a 2year stay. Now you pay full price, except vzw customers still can purchase a subsidized phone.

I'm holding on to my stock, which I've had for a while.

Listen to me again:

The monthly cost of my phone plan with AT&T does not go down with AT&T NEXT. It goes up by the cost of the phone ($800) divided by the number of months (24).

The original outlay of an iPhone 7 goes from $399 to $0 which helps people who don't have $399 lying around but instead of paying $399 on Month 1 you wind up paying $800 by Month 24. That's $400 more expensive to own an iPhone 7 vs. an iPhone 6 over the two year commitment.

There is nothing "buried" in my existing plan to account for this $400 variance. Apple and AT&T were subsidizing that expense to attract me as a customer, build market share, build loyalty, build their stock price. They are not funding that anymore. This now means that Apple has to make their releases very compelling or customers are going to take a hard look at the cost, something many of us never thought of before because the phones were essentially free since we could sell them unlocked for what we paid for them two years prior.

BJ

 

[I7guy]

Listen to me again:

The monthly cost of my phone plan with AT&T does not go down with AT&T NEXT. It goes up by the cost of the phone ($800) divided by the number of months (24).

The original outlay of an iPhone 7 goes from $399 to $0 which helps people who don't have $399 lying around but instead of paying $399 on Month 1 you wind up paying $800 by Month 24. That's $400 more expensive to own an iPhone 7 vs. an iPhone 6 over the two year commitment.

There is nothing "buried" in my existing plan to account for this $400 variance. Apple and AT&T were subsidizing that expense to attract me as a customer, build market share, build loyalty, build their stock price. They are not funding that anymore. This now means that Apple has to make their releases very compelling or customers are going to take a hard look at the cost, something many of us never thought of before because the phones were essentially free since we could sell them unlocked for what we paid for them two years prior.

BJ

Let's try it again.

Att is screwing their customers. Remove the subsidies and don't lower the cost of the plan but now add the cost of financing. I do not beleive Apple had anything to do with the subsidies they get paid the price of the phone. If you do I would like to see how.

But as I said this affects the entire mobile market. So every manufacturer should feel the pinch.

 

[9646829]

Ive just ordered a samsung Edge S7. Comes tomorrow got it for free and reduced my monthly by £20. After 3 years of stagnation i feel like I'm getting a new phone. Might be back in 2 years if Apple starts to innovate again.

Welcome to the club, you're gonna love it.

 

[C DM]

Listen to me again:

The monthly cost of my phone plan with AT&T does not go down with AT&T NEXT. It goes up by the cost of the phone ($800) divided by the number of months (24).

The original outlay of an iPhone 7 goes from $399 to $0 which helps people who don't have $399 lying around but instead of paying $399 on Month 1 you wind up paying $800 by Month 24. That's $400 more expensive to own an iPhone 7 vs. an iPhone 6 over the two year commitment.

There is nothing "buried" in my existing plan to account for this $400 variance. Apple and AT&T were subsidizing that expense to attract me as a customer, build market share, build loyalty, build their stock price. They are not funding that anymore. This now means that Apple has to make their releases very compelling or customers are going to take a hard look at the cost, something many of us never thought of before because the phones were essentially free since we could sell them unlocked for what we paid for them two years prior.

BJ

Let's try it again.

Att is screwing their customers. Remove the subsidies and don't lower the cost of the plan but now add the cost of financing. I do not beleive Apple had anything to do with the subsidies they get paid the price of the phone. If you do I would like to see how.

But as I said this affects the entire mobile market. So every manufacturer should feel the pinch.

The issue at hand is really with the plan more than anything else--the older plans (and this applies to Verizon and AT&T) don't provide a discount for financing, and just include the subsidy in them essentially, so doing anything other than a subsidized contract phone doesn't really make sense on those plans as far as not having to pay more. On the current and recent plans there's a discount that comes into play that goes to offset at least some of the financing monthly charge, which is similar to basically having a subsidy in a sense, just done in a different form.

 

[comptr]

Listen to me again:

The monthly cost of my phone plan with AT&T does not go down with AT&T NEXT. It goes up by the cost of the phone ($800) divided by the number of months (24).

The original outlay of an iPhone 7 goes from $399 to $0 which helps people who don't have $399 lying around but instead of paying $399 on Month 1 you wind up paying $800 by Month 24. That's $400 more expensive to own an iPhone 7 vs. an iPhone 6 over the two year commitment.

There is nothing "buried" in my existing plan to account for this $400 variance. Apple and AT&T were subsidizing that expense to attract me as a customer, build market share, build loyalty, build their stock price. They are not funding that anymore. This now means that Apple has to make their releases very compelling or customers are going to take a hard look at the cost, something many of us never thought of before because the phones were essentially free since we could sell them unlocked for what we paid for them two years prior.

BJ

Time for you to call At&t and Move to a New Plan.

 

[boltjames]

Let's try it again.

Att is screwing their customers. Remove the subsidies and don't lower the cost of the plan but now add the cost of financing. I do not beleive Apple had anything to do with the subsidies they get paid the price of the phone. If you do I would like to see how.

But as I said this affects the entire mobile market. So every manufacturer should feel the pinch.

Aricle from 2012 explains how the subsidies were negotiated with Apple and how the carriers margins eroded. The carriers pushed back and Apple supported their efforts to regain profitability. In the end Apple decided what consumers should pay more than the carriers, they are both in cahoots to control retail pricing and profitability. The screwing is from both parties.

http://money.cnn.com/2012/02/08/technology/iphone_carrier_subsidy/

BJ

 

[I7guy]

Aricle from 2012 explains how the subsidies were negotiated with Apple and how the carriers margins eroded. The carriers pushed back and Apple supported their efforts to regain profitability. In the end Apple decided what consumers should pay more than the carriers, they are both in cahoots to control retail pricing and profitability. The screwing is from both parties.

http://money.cnn.com/2012/02/08/technology/iphone_carrier_subsidy/

BJ

The article doesn't really say anything except a manufacturer discounts products for large customers. Pretty standard stuff. I know organizations that get volume discounts on iproducts.

 

[boltjames]

Time for you to call At&t and Move to a New Plan.

Unlimited Data Plan grandfathered from 2012 for $35 is worth its weight in gold, not going to touch that.

BJ
[doublepost=1471409412][/doublepost]

The article doesn't really say anything except a manufacturer discounts products for large customers. Pretty standard stuff. I know organizations that get volume discounts on iproducts.

These are the key passages:

Nomura's McCormack said carriers feel the need to have the iPhone to maintain their market share. But to make money on the devices, he thinks they will have to raise rates or get tough with Apple on reducing the subsidy. The latter is practically impossible. So carriers have been gradually hiking prices.

...and...

But the subsidies on the iPhone -- roughly $450 per device -- are the highest in the industry. Sprint revealed in October just how onerous those subsidies can be: The company said it has committed to paying Apple roughly $15.5 billion in up front costs over the next four years, and the carrier does not expect to make money on the deal until 2015 (this article is from 2012)

Again, the cost of the subsidy was not buried in the cost of my old AT&T bill, it was absorbed by the carriers as a way to grow market share and their own stock prices and the subsidy was controlled by Apple because they can sell a boatload more iPhone's if the carriers are giving them away at 50% off. Now that those days are over this has a dramatic impact on consumer behavior. I'm the perfect example. I'm always in the newest iPhone on Day 1 like its a badge of honor in my workplace. Not this time.

BJ

 

[aces99]

Unlimited Data Plan grandfathered from 2012 for $35 is worth its weight in gold, not going to touch that.

BJ
[doublepost=1471409412][/doublepost]

These are the key passages:

Nomura's McCormack said carriers feel the need to have the iPhone to maintain their market share. But to make money on the devices, he thinks they will have to raise rates or get tough with Apple on reducing the subsidy. The latter is practically impossible. So carriers have been gradually hiking prices.

...and...

But the subsidies on the iPhone -- roughly $450 per device -- are the highest in the industry. Sprint revealed in October just how onerous those subsidies can be: The company said it has committed to paying Apple roughly $15.5 billion in up front costs over the next four years, and the carrier does not expect to make money on the deal until 2015 (this article is from 2012)

Again, the cost of the subsidy was not buried in the cost of my old AT&T bill, it was absorbed by the carriers as a way to grow market share and their own stock prices and the subsidy was controlled by Apple because they can sell a boatload more iPhone's if the carriers are giving them away at 50% off. Now that those days are over this has a dramatic impact on consumer behavior. I'm the perfect example. I'm always in the newest iPhone on Day 1 like its a badge of honor in my workplace. Not this time.

BJ

Ya the change in the carrier subsidies had a major impact on smartphone sales, especially for Apple. That is a major reason why people are not upgrading their phones every year like they used to. Apple needs to start innovating again if they want to move a lot more smartphones.

 

[Radon87000]

By that reasoning just because you think jobs is better doesn't mean he really was. Tim took the company to a lofty status that Steve couldnt.
[doublepost=1471367769][/doublepost]
Right, the cost was buried in your plan and commitment for a 2year stay. Now you pay full price, except vzw customers still can purchase a subsidized phone.

I'm holding on to my stock, which I've had for a while.

He took the company to that lofty status on the strength of Jobs products which were wrecking the competition even before Tim took over.How is that Apple Watch doing again?

Call me when Timmy actually creates or redefines a product category

 

[comptr]

Unlimited Data Plan grandfathered from 2012 for $35 is worth its weight in gold, not going to touch that.

BJ
[doublepost=1471409412][/doublepost]

I would still move to a new plan you are paying way too much just for unlimited data since you can't even get 2 year contract phones on at&t and since your plan is old you can't get a discount towards the device payments. T-Mobile would be a better carrier for you then.

 

[C DM]

Unlimited Data Plan grandfathered from 2012 for $35 is worth its weight in gold, not going to touch that.

BJ
[doublepost=1471409412][/doublepost]

These are the key passages:

Nomura's McCormack said carriers feel the need to have the iPhone to maintain their market share. But to make money on the devices, he thinks they will have to raise rates or get tough with Apple on reducing the subsidy. The latter is practically impossible. So carriers have been gradually hiking prices.

...and...

But the subsidies on the iPhone -- roughly $450 per device -- are the highest in the industry. Sprint revealed in October just how onerous those subsidies can be: The company said it has committed to paying Apple roughly $15.5 billion in up front costs over the next four years, and the carrier does not expect to make money on the deal until 2015 (this article is from 2012)

Again, the cost of the subsidy was not buried in the cost of my old AT&T bill, it was absorbed by the carriers as a way to grow market share and their own stock prices and the subsidy was controlled by Apple because they can sell a boatload more iPhone's if the carriers are giving them away at 50% off. Now that those days are over this has a dramatic impact on consumer behavior. I'm the perfect example. I'm always in the newest iPhone on Day 1 like its a badge of honor in my workplace. Not this time.

BJ

The subsidy is built into the price of the older plans, while with the newer plans discounts are given to offset financed (or owned) equipment, which in many ways is fairly similar to how the subsidy pricing worked, just accounted for in a different manner.

 

[Savor]

Software - Apple beats Samsung
Hardware - Samsung beats Apple

SOFTware is correctable. HARDware is more permanent but is easier to get excited about because software doesn't change in UI all that much while hardware can.

This Microsoft video still amazes me five years later...

^ Probably won't see that in 15-20 years. Transparent, thin credit card smartphones. Hard to be excited with iPhones when so much cool technology could be coming out next year.

2017
+ Foldable displays (wait CES or MWC)
+ Project Ara / modular designs
+ Improvements to VR and AR
+ Nokia Android flagship
+ Google-made phone and Fuchsia OS
+ Nintendo NX, PS4 Neo
+ Star Wars 8

It is why I can't get too excited with a Note7 for too long when I know foldable displays will change the game for tablets. Browse through YouTube and check out foldable displays that can be unfurled, holographic, Project Ara, HoloLens, and so on. Our smartphones with the slab form factor won't look like that forever.

Apple lost its touch with marketing. It lost touch with any hardware innovation. This is basically what happened to Nokia and Sony. All I see with Apple and their rich deep pockets is copying other companies. Where is the modular design? 4K display? VR? Foldable display? Revamp iOS or make a completely different new OS but still compatible to iOS apps now.

Apple is always 2-3+ years behind Samsung and Android. It was Samsung that pioneered the phablet industry back in 2011. It was Sony who brought water-resistance to flagships in early-2013. Fast charging or wireless charging, Androids had those years ago. All I see customers want is NEW DESIGN when they should be asking for a NEW FORM FACTOR!

New design to iPhone users really means make the front iPhone look nearly the same but change the rear back. LOL! That's exciting enough to iOS users. Or recycle the iPhone 5s, and folks blow their load. Too slow, iOS fanatics/Android haters. Always years behind in your thought process. Think Different.

 

[Radon87000]

Software - Apple beats Samsung
Hardware - Samsung beats Apple

SOFTware is correctable. HARDware is more permanent but is easier to get excited about because software doesn't change in UI all that much while hardware can.

This Microsoft video still amazes me five years later...

^ Probably won't see that in 15-20 years. Transparent, thin credit card smartphones. Hard to be excited with iPhones when so much cool technology could be coming out next year.

2017
+ Foldable displays (wait CES or MWC)
+ Project Ara / modular designs
+ Improvements to VR and AR
+ Nokia Android flagship
+ Google-made phone and Fuchsia OS
+ Nintendo NX, PS4 Neo
+ Star Wars 8

It is why I can't get too excited with a Note7 for too long when I know foldable displays will change the game for tablets. Browse through YouTube and check out foldable displays that can be unfurled, holographic, Project Ara, HoloLens, and so on. Our smartphones with the slab form factor won't look like that forever.

Apple lost its touch with marketing. It lost touch with any hardware innovation. This is basically what happened to Nokia and Sony. All I see with Apple and their rich deep pockets is copying other companies. Where is the modular design? 4K display? VR? Foldable display? Revamp iOS or make a completely different new OS but still compatible to iOS apps now.

Apple is always 2-3+ years behind Samsung and Android. It was Samsung that pioneered the phablet industry back in 2011. It was Sony who brought water-resistance to flagships in early-2013. Fast charging or wireless charging, Androids had those years ago. All I see customers want is NEW DESIGN when they should be asking for a NEW FORM FACTOR!

New design to iPhone users really means make the front iPhone look nearly the same but change the rear back. LOL! That's exciting enough to iOS users. Or recycle the iPhone 5s, and folks blow their load. Too slow, iOS fanatics/Android haters. Always years behind in your thought process. Think Different.

Shh.Its not innovation until Apple does it