iPhone 11 Pro Why so much vitriol?

[Azathoth123]

I’ve also wondered about the negativity and wondered if it’s simple trolling or the negativity is incentivized by competitors? There’s a lot of money at stake if the needle moves even a tiny amount. To assume that this is not taking place seems naive to me, look at the pieces by FCN etc for more of the same negativity that you see here. If you want a good summary without enduring the BS, go read some of the Macalope’s pieces, lol.

As far as improvements in the 11 Pro, the battery life and camera improvements do it for me. For years, the gold standard for photojournalism, street and documentary photography was a 3-lens Leica M Series. It didn’t zoom, it didn’t have DSLR features, it didn’t have the quality of a large sheet film camera, but it just made some of the world’s most iconic images. So I’m glad to see that Apple has made the telephoto more usable outside portrait mode (it seems) and added the third lens; this was exactly what I was hoping for, a Leica M in my pocket.

It has enough quality for excellent prints to 13x18, quite possibly 16x20. Phones had enough image quality for web use almost from the beginning. Ansel Adams and Edward Weston were famous for their use of 8x10 sheet film cameras (among other things), and many of their prints were 8x10 contact prints. You only need about 8 MP for an 8x10 print, and a rule of thumb is that the MP count is equal to the short side of a good print in inches, so 12 MP ~13x18. Phone cameras have been capable of professional results for several years, though they do lack flexibility as did the iconic Leica M. Phone cameras excel at what the Leica M did (and still does), provide a compact camera with adequate focal length range and good enough quality for a go-everywhere/go-anywhere camera.

 

[russell_314]

You just discovered a key tenent of the forum..

The iPhone section in particular can reliably be counted on to do exactly what you said...work backwards into mental pretzels to justify purchases and make the buyer feel better about it.

Rationalize my purchases to others or themselves? If it's others I say when they start paying my phone bill I'll get right on that. I don't know why any adult would feel the need for approval of others to buy something. As to myself I guess I have to make a rational decision so I know what I do with my phone and what I need. I can say that would be suited with the iPhone 11. Now perhaps I want the 11 Pro Max. If it's something I'll enjoy then why not. Just like people buy expensive cars instead of the cheaper base model. Should I rationalize buying more expensive clothing or should I get it all at Ross or even Goodwill? Do gamers really need a high end graphics card? This can apply to anything where you spend more than the absolute minimum needed.

 

[VanNess]

Terrific read from circa 2004 so need to use the way back machine now to see it. Basically, technology has changed, people come and go, but everything else remains the same...

https://web.archive.org/web/20040805063811/http://www.misterbg.org/AppleProductCycle/

 

[Jack Neill]

Smart phones have become boring af. Theres only so much you can do when you release a new one every year.

 

[Jack Neill]

Terrific read from circa 2004 so need to use the way back machine now to see it. Basically, technology has changed, people come and go, but everything else remains the same...

https://web.archive.org/web/20040805063811/http://www.misterbg.org/AppleProductCycle/

"A minor, rarely occurring flaw in the device begins to be discussed in the Apple support forums. Whiny, artistic types post lengthy diatribes about how this terrible design flaw has made the device unusable and scarred them emotionally. Electronic petitions are created demanding that Apple replace the devices for free, plus pay for counseling to help traumatized users overcome their emotional distress."

I literally LOL at this one.

 

[naturalstar]

Absolutely agree with your comment. I was taken aback by the amount of hate and vitriolic comments here.

I usually lurk and occasionally post in the post-launch months and it’s been nothing but:

1) complaints on price (by far the top complaint)
2) just short of shaming anyone who wants to spend their money on buying/upgrading an iPhone year over year.
3) complaints on lack of exciting rumors
4) complaints on anyone who has issue with the design of the camera, notch, modem, etc.

I’m glad for the not-so-regular crowd making their reappearance to bring a little magic to the forum. I mean, this is supposed to be a place for Apple fans and those with an interest in Apple.

Ever since the iPhone 8 vs iPhone X year, it’s only been downhill.

 

[Nacho98]

It's not only that the three year design cycle is long and boring, it's the fact they made possibly the ugliest (or second ugliest behind the 3G/3Gs) phone ever, continued yet again with insulting base storage of 64 GB, and had to drop a planned feature last minute (bilateral wireless charging) with no other concession in terms of price or base storage bump to make up for it.

Then, they went ahead and removed 3D Touch, which rubs me the wrong way. I honestly feel like the 11 Pro is a lateral sidestep from the Xs. Gained some minor improvements, but much uglier, and having lost a useful feature (3D Touch).

 

[loybond]

You know, I was just thinking about this today. I like a 2, 3 or 4 lens mirrorless full frame kit depending on where I'm going (15mm, 24/1.4, 55/1.8 and maybe an 85/1.8 or 135/1.8) and slowly but surely, the iPhone is becoming a decent option for more and more use case scenarios. It's pretty crazy that you have 13mm, 26mm and 52mm (equivalent) options with you, in your pocket.

Large sensors (I use full frame) offer a few benefits, the keys one to me being shallower depth of field, excellent dynamic range, and excellent colour. The tiny sensors on phones like the iPhone can't compete on a 1:1 basis, but computational photography is changing everything.

Shallow depth of field? Apple pioneered this, and while its not perfect yet, keeps improving the bokeh, now almost resembling the swirly bokeh of Zeiss lenses.

Dynamic range? Smart HDR is amazing at this. And the extended dynamic range in video is very impressive too.

Colour? This is still one area that small sensors lag behind in, but it seems like that new photo mode they teased at the end (to be released with a software update) might stack images and improve this as well.

Low light performance... this has been a sore point for small sensors, but Google has really done some amazing things here. If you look at the 100% crops from the Pixel, they're actually better than 1" sensor cameras - just astounding. The night mode pics they showed yesterday didn't look that good to me, but we'll have to wait and see actual samples to make a determination.

Either way, it's amazing how software is trumping camera hardware in so many areas.

For years, the gold standard for photojournalism, street and documentary photography was a 3-lens Leica M Series. It didn’t zoom, it didn’t have DSLR features, it didn’t have the quality of a large sheet film camera, but it just made some of the world’s most iconic images. So I’m glad to see that Apple has made the telephoto more usable outside portrait mode (it seems) and added the third lens; this was exactly what I was hoping for, a Leica M in my pocket.

 

[1rottenapple]

Well I think when someone is charging $1300-1400 for a phone the phone better be damn good. The current iPhones are more eh and don’t get me wrong I’m kinda burnt by my xs max. It’s a good phone but looking back I don’t think it’s worth $1350 that I paid. I definitely learned my lesson about iPhones. Maybe that’s where my saltiness comes from.

 

[twennywonn]

I come to the forums usually once a year at this time to read the discussions and get an idea of what is going on in the cell phone world before I make my yearly pilgrimage to the Apple store to trade my money for their newest offering.

This year I’m a little blown away by the negativity expressed on MR. I’m growing old, aren’t we all, but I sure miss the days of excitement and whatnot surrounding the new lineup. This year is nothing terribly new with Apple and their devices - The same thing has happened over the years, incremental updates with some years better than others. Yet I sense a trend online with way too much cynical bomb chucking at each other. It’s too bad. It seems to happen all over the place as we try to out gripe and out complain each other.

I’m always impressed at Apple’s ability to make this many devices, with incredible precision, delivery times, stellar customer support, all with such tightly integrated hardware/software. This kind of product, produced at this level of sophistication is nothing short of amazing.

Anyway, from one fan to the next, I wish you all a fun fall season. Enjoy the phone you have With anticipation for 2020, or upgrade to the new one if you want, enjoy the process. It’s a great time to be alive, and we are all incredibly blessed beyond measure. While not life changing technology, I like the new offerings. The new cameras are a great feature, as are the improvements in battery life, screen brightness, and Face ID speed/length/angle. These will solve my biggest wishes with the current X/XS platform.

All the best,

Roxysdad

Personally I think the leaks ruin it. Im not a hater as I am happily ordering the 11 Pro Max and it will be the best phone sold. However, we have been hearing about these leaks for months so no one is surprised.

 

[44267547]

Personally I think the leaks ruin it. Im not a hater as I am happily ordering the 11 Pro Max and it will be the best phone sold. However, we have been hearing about these leaks for months so no one is surprised.

But how is that Apples fault about the leaks? You’re paying attention to a rumored website, I guarantee you if you blocked all those types of websites and/or didn’t click on certain links, you wouldn’t know about what the iPhone must expect this year. Average consumers don’t even pay attention to sites like this, unless you follow Apple closely. But you’re right, the iPhone 11 will deliver the best user experience.

 

[DDustiNN]

I come to the forums usually once a year at this time to read the discussions and get an idea of what is going on in the cell phone world before I make my yearly pilgrimage to the Apple store to trade my money for their newest offering.

This year I’m a little blown away by the negativity expressed on MR. I’m growing old, aren’t we all, but I sure miss the days of excitement and whatnot surrounding the new lineup. This year is nothing terribly new with Apple and their devices - The same thing has happened over the years, incremental updates with some years better than others. Yet I sense a trend online with way too much cynical bomb chucking at each other. It’s too bad. It seems to happen all over the place as we try to out gripe and out complain each other.

I’m always impressed at Apple’s ability to make this many devices, with incredible precision, delivery times, stellar customer support, all with such tightly integrated hardware/software. This kind of product, produced at this level of sophistication is nothing short of amazing.

Anyway, from one fan to the next, I wish you all a fun fall season. Enjoy the phone you have With anticipation for 2020, or upgrade to the new one if you want, enjoy the process. It’s a great time to be alive, and we are all incredibly blessed beyond measure. While not life changing technology, I like the new offerings. The new cameras are a great feature, as are the improvements in battery life, screen brightness, and Face ID speed/length/angle. These will solve my biggest wishes with the current X/XS platform.

All the best,

Roxysdad

Yep... that’s basically the internet nowadays. It’s an awful cesspool of negativity. Forums, comment sections, anywhere you look, really. People are just miserable and feel the need to project it onto others.
[doublepost=1568259602][/doublepost]

I think it is pretty telling that you are more blown away by the reaction of the keynote than the keynote itself.

Not really. I watched the keynote and thought it was perfectly fine. Then come here to find that everyone is crying up a storm and threatening to not buy a new phone.

Just like every year.

This place is just awful nowadays. Feels like it’s filled with more complaints and haters than people who actually want to discuss the products.

 

[digthewell]

I usually lurk and occasionally post in the post-launch months and it’s been nothing but:

1) complaints on price (by far the top complaint)
2) just short of shaming anyone who wants to spend their money on buying/upgrading an iPhone year over year.
3) complaints on lack of exciting rumors
4) complaints on anyone who has issue with the design of the camera, notch, modem, etc.

I’m glad for the not-so-regular crowd making their reappearance to bring a little magic to the forum. I mean, this is supposed to be a place for Apple fans and those with an interest in Apple.

Ever since the iPhone 8 vs iPhone X year, it’s only been downhill.

Interesting observations. You've summed up the comments quite well. And you're right when you said this was supposed to be a place for Apple fans but it seems to be flooded with people who want to use Apple products but also bash it on every opportunity.

 

[bribri99]

Most of the complainers view the keynote as they only excitement in their life so a lot is riding on it.

 

[animalx]

My thoughts are above - if you don’t like the phone then it’s not for you but I think there is a lot of criticism towards Apple just because of who they are versus real issues with the product.

They make great stuff.

If by great, you mean stuff that's already been done and has been done for quite a while, then yes they make great stuff...

 

[animalx]

Besides the fact that Apple probably could've give you more storage for the $, made the switch to USB C & have a better flush camera lens design. The rest of the list doesn't seem relevant to me, for the trade-offs and/or hype.

1) You can't really expect to have a new phone design every year or 2 and expect massive changes? Cars don't even do this many changes and cars generally take 5-7 years to develop a new generation with a new design.

2) Refresh rate... well. If you want to conserve power and maintain a slimmer battery capacity then you'll have to choose a lower rate. Because... higher refresh rate => more power => bigger battery (to maintain usage times) => need faster charging (to maintain charge times/have reasonable charge times) => need bigger wattage charger etc. etc. Never ending cycle.

3) 5G well... whoever makes the modem or whichever doesn't matter. Apple recently bought Intel's modem business so they're probably working on it. 5G is still in it's infancy, so there's no real use for 5G until a nationwide-roll out is going to be happening very fast (which it isn't, only select cities has it). By then, that'll be time for the next iPhone release.

4) Reverse charging
Utterly pointless & inefficient. It's for those people who can't seem to charge their other devices but the phone. Fix: how about you charge your devices.

5) Improved repairability... uhh how is this a disappointment when every other phone manufacture is literally following what Apple is doing? You really think Apple will reverse course, downgrade the materials to plastic, just to put a removable cover on the phone to allow you to change the battery? lol

Other things that are utterly pointless:
Foldable display - Ask Samsung how that worked out, plus foldable... for what? Make a bigger flat display if you want that big of a display.
In screen fingerprint reader - we have Face ID, who cares about your fingerprint? Yeah I get it, some people might prefer using their fingerprint instead of their face, but hey trade-offs taken into consideration, only a small percentage of people will want that, at the cost of an entire redesign.

What I DO care about is, Apple making the platform as best as possible. Get more performance out of the SoC. Reduce power consumption across the board. Optimize the OS. Remove features not used by many to reduce software bloat. Improve the core features of the phone - cameras, communication, and processing power. The rest of the features are very minor in comparison (i.e. USB-C).

You make a lot of excuses for the phone lacking...

-Can't expect new designs? Other OEM's somehow manage to do it, but you make excuses for Apple.

-Reverse charging is pointless? When I go out of town, I have my phone stuff already packed. All I need is one cable, and I can charge my phone with that while I'm sleep, and simultaneously charge my earbuds via reverse wireless charging. Being able to charge two devices with one cable, is far from useless, and has been quite handy for me.

-Who cares about fingerprint? Only a small percentage of people will want that? Where did you come up with that? When you have your phone on the desk or table, that Face ID doesn't do you much good. Who wants to keep having to type in a code, when they could just touch the screen? Of course if they had a smart lock capability like Galaxy phones have, you could tell your phone when to be unlocked...But I'm sure that's one of the many things you mean when you say "optimize the OS".

-Communication? Let's start with that archaic phone app that is incapable of smart dialing features. I know I know...let me guess... you don't need a smart dialer, and you love looking up every contact you want to dial... -_-

Your reply was the typical (and played out) iPhone apologist position of saying "I don't need that" for every single thing you don't have. Then of course, 5 years later when Apple finally adds it (like Face unlock), suddenly it's so wonderful. -_-

 

[StarShot]

Absolutely agree with your comment. I was taken aback by the amount of hate and vitriolic comments here.

Separate from the political areas???

 

[1rottenapple]

I heard reverse charging is pretty hard on the battery. I honestly wouldn’t want to compromise on that part. I can bring a cable for my AirPods.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Most of the complainers view the keynote as they only excitement in their life so a lot is riding on it.

How can you possibly know that if you don’t mind me asking?

 

[throAU]

but I sure miss the days of excitement and whatnot surrounding the new lineup.

Maybe apple should put out something that is new and exciting then....

The new phones are just an iteration of what we already had at the high end with 1-2 more cameras. They've either conceded the entry market entirely by not having an SE replacement or they're beyond late with it.

I don't personally know ANYONE who wants to pay more for a higher end phone, which is the way apple have been headed for years now. Every single Apple user i know wants a less expensive iPhone model.

 

[MisterSavage]

Rationalize my purchases to others or themselves? If it's others I say when they start paying my phone bill I'll get right on that. I don't know why any adult would feel the need for approval of others to buy something. As to myself I guess I have to make a rational decision so I know what I do with my phone and what I need. I can say that would be suited with the iPhone 11. Now perhaps I want the 11 Pro Max. If it's something I'll enjoy then why not. Just like people buy expensive cars instead of the cheaper base model. Should I rationalize buying more expensive clothing or should I get it all at Ross or even Goodwill? Do gamers really need a high end graphics card? This can apply to anything where you spend more than the absolute minimum needed.

I've definitely gotten some snide comments on here because I'm on the iPhone upgrade program and trade in my phone each year. If I enjoy it and can afford it how is that even an issue?

 

[Maven1975]

It’s not ALL on Apple that current tech has plateaued.

I agree that software can be improved, services can be improved but their are limits of what these devices can accomplish. (Physically/Thermally/Technically)

The iPhone was a leader in the mobile tech revolution. One of the biggest in our times along with the computer, planes, trades and automobiles. (Pun intended)

There are other areas that Apple could focus on/or address. Health/Gaming/Education/Infrastructure

It’s time for Apple to let things catch up.

Focus heavily on custom silicon, commence their ARM transition and implement it across the board.

Every device in the ecosystem will benefit once this is complete.

 

[adrianlondon]

One bunch of people: ooo, new phone. I might replace my 6S this year - it looks ok.

Another bunch of people: $1000 for this? That's it? Why should I upgrade from the $1000 phone I bought last year? *buys new phone anyway*

I'm in the former bunch; the vitriol comes from the second.

 

[Stratus Fear]

Terrific read from circa 2004 so need to use the way back machine now to see it. Basically, technology has changed, people come and go, but everything else remains the same...

https://web.archive.org/web/20040805063811/http://www.misterbg.org/AppleProductCycle/

Dear lord, I remember reading this when it was newly posted. Some things really don’t ever change.

 

[naturalstar]

Interesting observations. You've summed up the comments quite well. And you're right when you said this was supposed to be a place for Apple fans but it seems to be flooded with people who want to use Apple products but also bash it on every opportunity.

Or people who think they can speak for every other user, forum and non-forum alike.

I believe anyone should be able to openly discuss their opinions on Apple, their business direction, their products, the rumors, and so forth. It’s an open forum after all and everyone’s concerns/needs/wants relative to Apple differ.

What’s very disturbing is:
- the lack of courtesy (snark-level 1000)
- the arrogant, high-handed, way in which some will speak for ‘everyone’ in giving their opinions as if they are far more than a poster with far too much time on their hands (“no one..., “the average consumer...”)
- the quick cuts to flat out deny someone’s differing opinion (“there’s nothing wrong with the notch/camera/color”)
- the phone measuring and phone judging (this has calmed down a bit from the all-out iPhone 8 vs iPhone X war, but the SE crowd gets little sympathy in these parts still)
- the lack of helpfulness towards those seeking real help
- the denigration of those who don’t have the same level of angst/anger over some perceived wrong direction of Apple (ex. Price — but fun fact: price is a concern to any consumer, however, the degree of that concern does vary. There are options to get an iPhone and it’s okay to utilize any one of them. If one finances a phone for $500-$600 a year vs paying full price year over year, What. Is. The. Big. Deal? So what if they are living in a tent in SFO, with an iPhone XS Max getting ready to upgrade again this Friday at 5am. Are they hurting you or a loved one???) The armchair financiers on this forum... wow.

Anyway, enough of that. Just use a different lens when viewing here, don’t take it personally, and you’ll be fine. Personal opinions and concerns aside, this is a fun time of year for iPhone upgraders!