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I have bad news for you. I'm running the latest El Cap beta and I can promise you unless there are some dramatic changes between now and RTM, Windows 10 is still way faster. El Cap is maybe 5-10% faster than Yosemite at best.


I find El Capitan finally solved performance issues. However, Windows 10 is still faster on this macbook pro. Windows 10 on my ancient laptop that came with Vista is faster than this 2013 mbp.


I like macs better but this is just making the purchase of a new one really difficult to justify.
 
I'm not citing any kind of scientific evidence, but I use both everyday. Windows 10 even in a virtual overall feels much snappier. It boots faster, windows open in an instant, applications open nearly instantaneous. I'm not necessarily saying El Cap is a slouch, but in terms of perceived performance it's immediately noticable.

I feel that way even about Yosemite 10.10.5 on the MacPro5,1 (6-core@3.66 GHz) I have running of a Samsung 850 Pro SSD. Windows 10 on the same computer running of a Samsung 850 EVO might be a little faster, but not by much. Maximum 5-10% faster. ;)

Anyway, I'll think I will try to compare the two properly (more ”scientific”) when El Capitan is released.
 
Could well be the size of SSD. It would explain it not compressing on the clean install - perhaps it only compresses if there is a small amount of free space. I only have 120GB SSD with 66 assigned to Windows 10 and 55 to El Cap. It isn't really enough for either but the compression certainly helps.

If you are interested in other compression tips there is an interesting thread here: http://forums.mydigitallife.info/threads/60744-Windows-10-Compression

The most useful except for compact compactos:always is
cd "c:\Program Files"&compact /s /c /f /exe:xpress16k changing the directory to what you want. I compressed "Program Files" 97% using that from 2.2GB to 69MB for example. Really quite astonishing.


It compressed 2.2 GB to 69MB....?
 
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I have bad news for you. I'm running the latest El Cap beta and I can promise you unless there are some dramatic changes between now and RTM, Windows 10 is still way faster. El Cap is maybe 5-10% faster than Yosemite at best.

Sadly I agree, but with some conditions. I run two machines here at work, a 6 core nMP with El Cap and a Windows 10 machine with a 6 core 4930K so they are almost identically specced.

One of the best things about Windows is you can turn all of the animations and font smoothing off, and after doing so it certainly seems to be much faster and indeed the UI just screams. What I am not sure about is how much of it is really faster or just appears to be because you can turn off all of the time wasting eye candy. I really hope Apple gives us the ability to disable a lot of the fluff.

Another thing, and it's maybe just a matter of preference but I am finding even the flattened UI in El Cap to look quite antique and stale. Elements like the HUGE drop shadows around windows in OS X look ridiculous next to the cleanliness of elements in Win 10.

It's unfortunate to say this already, but I am finding El Cap to not be innovative enough in any way.
 
Sadly I agree, but with some conditions. I run two machines here at work, a 6 core nMP with El Cap and a Windows 10 machine with a 6 core 4930K so they are almost identically specced.

One of the best things about Windows is you can turn all of the animations and font smoothing off, and after doing so it certainly seems to be much faster and indeed the UI just screams. What I am not sure about is how much of it is really faster or just appears to be because you can turn off all of the time wasting eye candy. I really hope Apple gives us the ability to disable a lot of the fluff.

Another thing, and it's maybe just a matter of preference but I am finding even the flattened UI in El Cap to look quite antique and stale. Elements like the HUGE drop shadows around windows in OS X look ridiculous next to the cleanliness of elements in Win 10.

It's unfortunate to say this already, but I am finding El Cap to not be innovative enough in any way.


You have been able to turn off animations in OS X for awhile now. El Capitan has only just fixed the frame rate drop OS X has had for a few years. Windows 10 is still faster
 
The speed you perceive of anything before your eyes is often based on your beliefs, reactions, expectations, training, etc. One person may say Windows is super fast compared to Yosemite and another person may notice no difference at all.

Back when OSX 10.1 and XP came out these debates were settled objectively with evidence instead of subjective perceptions which can easily deceive you as an OS user. For example, we had an app that would create 1000 empty Windows and then close them. We used that to benchmark how fast each OS could draw window elements. It's one test, more could be created for testing window switching, virtual desktop switching, etc.

With Windows 10 Microsoft animates its Windows very differently to OSX. The former fades windows in and out. The latter performs a full animated scale (or genie if you wish). These animations could have no significant speed difference in real world terms, but Windows' method could trick you to believe it is much faster.

Without imperical evidence like that you're all debating which falls to the ground faster - a ball of paper or a cannonball? How the mind perceives things is highly deceptive. In the words of Richard Feynman 'The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.'
 
Another thing, and it's maybe just a matter of preference but I am finding even the flattened UI in El Cap to look quite antique and stale. Elements like the HUGE drop shadows around windows in OS X look ridiculous next to the cleanliness of elements in Win 10.

That I can't agree with. I think the drop shadow makes it easier/quicker to see which window is on top.
I also have a problem with the mixed look of the GUI in Windows 10. Sure the new web browser Edge look good, but there's a mix of older GUI designs that still there and some icons even date back to the Windows 95 era, especially if you throw third party Windows applications into the mix. The looks of Windows 10 isn't unified at all. Much better in OS X.

It's unfortunate to say this already, but I am finding El Cap to not be innovative enough in any way.

May I ask in which way you find Windows 10 innovative? I guess there are two things compared to earlier Windows version that is good, i.e. the task overview (a bit like Mission Control in OS X) and the virtual desktops (that has also been around in OS X for some time). Otherwise I don't really know. But it's true that El Capitan does't bring much new user interface wise. And I say that Windows 10 handles the ”windows side-by-side” function better than El Capitan which requires that one ”click and hold down” on the the zoom button for the windows to be draggable and snap to 50% of the screen. In Windows 10 it's just to grab the window title bar and move it to right of left for it to snap – no need to hold anything down and wait.
 
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That I can't agree with. I think the drop shadow makes it easier/quicker to see which window is on top.
I also have a problem with the mixed look of the GUI in Windows 10. Sure the new web browser Edge look good, but there's a mix of older GUI designs that still there and some icons even date back to the Windows 95 era, especially if you throw third party Windows applications into the mix. The looks of Windows 10 isn't unified at all. Much better in OS X.

There's a new Insider Build with a note saying they are working on unifying the interface. It already includes a new contextual menu for the Explorer shell.
 
There's a new Insider Build with a note saying they are working on unifying the interface. It already includes a new contextual menu for the Explorer shell.

Sounds good. I wonder if/when third party developers will join. :)
Many (most) Windows applications still has a Windows 95:ish GUI/look.
 
The win10 interface is just years ahead of OS X, its just too tired now and the fact MS tried something new i like, ok 8 didn't work, but we've had 10years of OS X tweaks on windows 95 and its going nowhere fast..
 
Sounds good. I wonder if/when third party developers will join. :)
Many (most) Windows applications still has a Windows 95:ish GUI/look.

Remember that the reason for this is because many business use legacy apps for many years before they upgrade them. Microsoft has been good to allow this. Apple updates an OS a few times and breaks old apps almost completely, sometimes that works out for good reasons but it also means people have to purchase more software upgrades.
 
The win10 interface is just years ahead of OS X, its just too tired now and the fact MS tried something new i like, ok 8 didn't work, but we've had 10years of OS X tweaks on windows 95 and its going nowhere fast..

In what way is the interface in Windows 10 years ahead? Because I seriously don't get it. I still think the app switcher in OS X is much faster to navigate (i.e. find what I want) when having a lot of apps and windows open. Almost always having the preferences for an app in the app's menu (cmd ,) is convenient and makes the GUI feel unified across different apps. Being able to have a folder in the Dock an quick browse it from there is good too. Hot corners for Misson Control is handy. Plus there are other things, like that MacUpdate Desktop service which for a small yearly cost saves me a lot of time keeping non-App Store apps upp to date on several computers (although it hasn't been hassle free is has still saved me time overall).

I think both the task overview and virtual desktops in Windows 10 is a good addition (which OS X already had for years) but other than that, what else is new and usable with Windows 10 (side-by-side feature is better implemented than in OS X – I must admit that too)?

Remember that the reason for this is because many business use legacy apps for many years before they upgrade them. Microsoft has been good to allow this. Apple updates an OS a few times and breaks old apps almost completely, sometimes that works out for good reasons but it also means people have to purchase more software upgrades.

I doubt that is the only reason. It's not only about business apps – it is rare that I find a Windows application that look graphically good and feels intuitive to use. I think it's simply that there are less people who develop apps for Windows that are into graphic design.

Besides – I don't see why legacy API support in Windows (that I agree has ben good for some apps) has to keep your app looking ” graphically legacy” as well. OS X has been moving ahead dropping support for older APIs, that true. But I can also understand it in some ways. Apple wants to move ahead which I overall think is a good thing. If the developers hasn't totally stopped developing their app I feel there usually support coming when a new OS X version is released (should any problems arise).
 
In what way is the interface in Windows 10 years ahead? Because I seriously don't get it. I still think the app switcher in OS X is much faster to navigate (i.e. find what I want) when having a lot of apps and windows open. Almost always having the preferences for an app in the app's menu (cmd ,) is convenient and makes the GUI feel unified across different apps. Being able to have a folder in the Dock an quick browse it from there is good too.

I think both the task overview and virtual desktops in Windows 10 is a good addition (which OS X already had for years) but other than that, what else is new and usable with Windows 10?



I doubt that is the only reason. It's not only about business apps – it is rare that I find a Windows application that look graphically good and feels intuitive to use. I think it's simply that there are less people who develop apps for Windows that are into graphic design.

Besides – I don't see why legacy API support in Windows (that I agree has ben good for some apps) has to keep your app looking ” graphically legacy” as well. OS X has been moving ahead dropping support for older APIs, that true. But I can also understand it in some ways. Apple wants to move ahead which I overall think is a good thing. If the developers hasn't totally stopped developing their app I feel there usually support coming when a new OS X version is released (should any problems arise).

That's just the way the Win32 SDK worked before. An app's GUI would be fixed to whatever version SDK it was built with.
 
That's just the way the Win32 SDK worked before. An app's GUI would be fixed to whatever version SDK it was built with.

Okay, if that's true we shall perhaps see some changes to the look of Windows apps the coming years. Let's see if they manage to get Windows apps to feel as unified as OS X apps do. If/when that happens I might consider switching. :)
 
The speed you perceive of anything before your eyes is often based on your beliefs, reactions, expectations, training, etc. One person may say Windows is super fast compared to Yosemite and another person may notice no difference at all.

Back when OSX 10.1 and XP came out these debates were settled objectively with evidence instead of subjective perceptions which can easily deceive you as an OS user. For example, we had an app that would create 1000 empty Windows and then close them. We used that to benchmark how fast each OS could draw window elements. It's one test, more could be created for testing window switching, virtual desktop switching, etc.

With Windows 10 Microsoft animates its Windows very differently to OSX. The former fades windows in and out. The latter performs a full animated scale (or genie if you wish). These animations could have no significant speed difference in real world terms, but Windows' method could trick you to believe it is much faster.

Without imperical evidence like that you're all debating which falls to the ground faster - a ball of paper or a cannonball? How the mind perceives things is highly deceptive. In the words of Richard Feynman 'The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.'


I've heard many say "why is or "why does my frame rate drop to 2 fps when using mission control." A quick search of "why is Mavericks/Yosemite/os x so laggy"


Wow!
 
I've heard many say "why is or "why does my frame rate drop to 2 fps when using mission control." A quick search of "why is Mavericks/Yosemite/os x so laggy"



Wow!

This is the kind of subjective reasoning I pointed out.

Some people badly maintain their systems. Some use old ones. For every person who 'claims' they measured their multitasking crawl to 2FPS (?) there are thousands of people who are not experiencing this. And people who don't know how to maintain a computer will also see Windows crawl. Go to tenforums.com, eightforums.com or sevenforums.com to read hundreds of various types of complaints.
 
I got a 2010 15" MBP (with an SSD) with almost nothing installed except browsers, virtualbox and libreoffice. It is as clean as it gets.
With an external screen 1080p attached it crawls to a halt when you try mission control.
It is running Yosemite but is clearly overtaxed.
Exposé and Spaces used to run perfectly fine in Snow Leopard. The animation is not that different.
OSX runs fine on my late 2013 15". I think it shows though that Windows caters to lots of low end hardware, while OSX is only targeting its own current rather expensive hardware.

There really should not be anything to maintain besides not installing all sorts of crap.
 
With an external screen 1080p attached it crawls to a halt when you try mission control.

I bet that depends on how many windows you have open. Anyway, I have the same computer (MBP Mid 2010) at home connected to a TV with 1920 x 1080 resolution. Not using Mission Control on that very often, but I'll give it a go.

This animation thing is something it seems Apple tries to adress with El Capitan. My impression is that even older graphics cards (that doesn't support the Metal graphics API) performs better in OS X 10.11. Let's so how our Mid 2010 machines fares with El Cap.
 
You have been able to turn off animations in OS X for awhile now. El Capitan has only just fixed the frame rate drop OS X has had for a few years. Windows 10 is still faster

In my case on our Mac Pro I have set everything I can manage off, using this page as a guidline (http://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/14001/how-to-turn-off-all-animations-on-os-x).

However I still see drop shadows and the font smoothing is never really off even if set to zero. I feel this is one of the reasons why Win 10 always seems to have an advantage with UI speed. It certainly seems faster.
 
In my case on our Mac Pro I have set everything I can manage off, using this page as a guidline (http://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/14001/how-to-turn-off-all-animations-on-os-x).

However I still see drop shadows and the font smoothing is never really off even if set to zero. I feel this is one of the reasons why Win 10 always seems to have an advantage with UI speed. It certainly seems faster.


It is faster. When you can see the the stutter in OS X you don't need to record the FPS - you can easily see it. It's self evident.

However, El Capitan has substantially improved the smoothness. It still stutters occasionally

When you click an app in the Windows 10 start menu it is opened instantly. When you click an app on OS X you're waiting two seconds on an SSD
 
Someone's happy with El Capitan GM in this other thread: #104

”Running the OS X El Capitan GM now on my mid-2011 iMac.

Performance has never been so good.:)

Snow Yosemite????

OS X El Capitan is undoubtably Yosemite done right:)

The best OS X release since Snow Leopard by a country mile:):):)


But I guess Windows 10 is still ”WAAAAY faster”. o_O
 
Someone's happy with El Capitan GM in this other thread: #104

”Running the OS X El Capitan GM now on my mid-2011 iMac.

Performance has never been so good.:)

Snow Yosemite????

OS X El Capitan is undoubtably Yosemite done right:)

The best OS X release since Snow Leopard by a country mile:):):)


But I guess Windows 10 is still ”WAAAAY faster”. o_O
As long as all users are happy with their good and fast OS, does it matter what it is ? ;)
 
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