Windows 11 for Mac in the Works, Says Parallels Desktop

[jlc1978]

I’d believe that if Xbox wasn’t a thing.

Xbox is a different strategy, it's about content and subscription revenue streams. Releasing a Mac OS compatible Windows "app" really doesn't support ongoing subscription sales nor would such a market be larger enough, IMHO, for MS to justify making and supporting it. Windows has a large OEM market base so ongoing development means ongoing sales, and that allows MS to offer free upgrades; plus it means a more up to date OS base for MS' products as well.

Once MS sold into the market for an Mac OS Windows product, the growth would be small, so either they charge regular update fees, like Parallels, or give it away like Fusion, neither of which is worth the trouble for such a small return.

 

[asiga]

While I prefer RISC to CISC, Apple didn't make the M1 move in the right way: they expect that the software industry will follow and port their software, because Apple thinks they still can make the market move at will, like in the Jobs era. That's a big mistake, because iOS is strong, but MacOS isn't anymore: In the field of Architecture and AEC (which is the field I know best), all the users with Macs used Bootcamp or Parallels, as all the applications in the area are Windows only (except AutoCAD, which is used less and less nowadays, and ArchiCAD).

What's going to happen isn't that Revit, SAP2000, or Robot will be ported to ARM. They won't be ported. What will happen is that no Architecture student is going to buy a Mac anymore.

I've seen this move in my Architecture School: Ten years ago, most students had a Mac. Today, all of them have PCs, just because neither Revit nor any other software used at the School runs on MacOS.

Of course there's a second read to this: The main goal of Apple is the iPad. They really want the iPad to be the bestselling "computer" (if you can call that a computer). So, they don't care what software is supported on the Mac, provided that the iPad is cheap and everybody can buy it, so that, a decade from now, all major apps will run on it. That's obviously their strategy. But no, my computer will be a computer, not an iPad.

 

[Menneisyys2]

Name a single case in the last 10 years when a Mac computer could not run the latest osX/MacOS version 5-6 years after release.

Prolly this isn’t the best sign for the future to come?:

Several macOS Monterey Features Unavailable on Intel-Based Macs

While there are many great new features in macOS Monterey, several of them are not available on Intel-based Macs, according to Apple. On the macOS...

www.macrumors.com

And let’s not forget how quickly PowerPC was abandoned after the switch to Intel either…

 

[mikeroySoft]

If you use an OEM copy, yes. There are different licenses than that.

(Also, the OEM limitations are legally void in various countries.)

Yah, that's not how my (VMware...)'s lawyers interpret the EULA.

OEM is only sold to OEMs, obvi, but the Insider Preview EULA states that it can only be installed on devices that already came with Windows on ARM pre-installed (which includes all of 0 Mac devices).

 

[Putzytart]

Can someone please tell me what Intel emulation is like on ARM Windows? I have a particular piece of flight simulator software only available for x86 windows (called RealFlight 9.5) that I really want to run on my Mac, but I've got no idea if it will run on windows for ARM, in parallels, on a Mac.

At least Microsoft is slowly trying to get support for ARM, but geez it's NOTHING like Rosetta. Apart from one or two tiny pieces of software, everything just works on my M1 Mac the day it arrived. Microsoft could learn a lesson here.

Surface: "Runs all windows apps"*
*runs one or two windows apps.

 

[H2SO4]

That's not really true. Any new OS release stops supporting older hardware - Windows 11 is stopping hardware support for a whole load of systems that are only 2-3 years old. Hell, at work, we have a couple of Surface Book 2 laptops that are I believe only a little over 2 years old and they do not support Windows 11. Apple's never released an OS that didn't support their own machines that recent.

Come on. Be honest, you know that in general in the vast majority of cases he is correct.

 

[M3centurion]

Hopefully Windows 11 will be available and compatible with VMWare and Parallels. I imagine that for the vast majority of users of Windows VMs on the Mac are only using it for the odd app here or there and just needs something that works rather than blistering performance. I for one use a Windows only app almost every day but it doesn't require any kind of real power so any reasonable x86 emulation that might be baked into Windows 11 arm will likely be more than sufficient. If I needed more power, I'd use a dedicated physical Windows machine.

I am currently running Windows 11 with Parallels on my M1 Mac Mini and installed without any issue and runs ok bearing in mind it is an early beta.

 

[Yoshimura]

However, running Windows natively through Boot Camp is no longer possible on all Apple silicon Macs, leaving virtualization to be the only option.

I thought that Virtualization of Windows on a Apple silicon Macs was not possible either.

 

[Realityck]

No specifics were given, but Parallels did say that it "will surely do everything that's possible to make it happen." On Intel-based Mac computers, users can natively run Windows using Boot Camp, as well as through virtualization. However, running Windows natively through Boot Camp is no longer possible on all Apple silicon Macs, leaving virtualization to be the only option.

I hope this ends up working great on M1 Macs.

 

[sparkinstx]

Windows 11?!? We're still waiting on the release version of Windows 10 for ARM, that will run in Parallels on the M1 Macs. Come on, Microsoft.

 

[sparkinstx]

That won't be the case with Windows 11 - it'll only run on somewhat modern processors (not the 13-yo ones I can still run Windows 10 on) and TPM 2.0. They're going to be driving a lot of new PC sales. Windows 10 is supposed to be supported until October 14, 2015, but it's still unclear if there's going to be new semi-annual channel releases for Home and Pro until then.

 

[sparkinstx]

The difference is Windows can run on some pretty old hardware. Apple, on the other hand, gives users of older Apple stuff the big middle finger and says "F you" after 5-6 years.

That won't be the case with Windows 11 - it'll only run on somewhat modern processors (not the 13-yo ones I can still run Windows 10 on) and TPM 2.0. They're going to be driving a lot of new PC sales. Windows 10 is supposed to be supported until October 14, 2015, but it's still unclear if there's going to be new semi-annual channel releases for Home and Pro until then.

 

[Mick-Mac]

Could you please elaborate? I've been a paying Parallels customer since v5 (current is v16.5) and although the actual price can be debated, I've had nothing but good things come from being able to run Windows on my Macs.

Aside from their price (which effectively just became a yearly subscription) they suddenly changed their license so that it was machine based, not user based. I had it on my machine at work and at home. I was never in both places at the same time, but they forced me into buying another copy. I found out the hard way during a crunch time and the only way out was to whip out my credit card and buy it again. Last dollar they ever got out of me...

 

[Stromos]

Although MS is not officially supporting old hardware (...which is bonkers if you ask me...), the Insider Preview version of Windows 11 has been shown to work just fine on basically anything that runs Windows 10, including some old Athlon 64 X2 and Core 2 Duo systems, once you bypass the install-time compatibility checks. So it seems that this is a business restriction and not a technical restriction.

Works is relative here how many years have we been complaining about the security of Windows. Okay Windows 11 is doing things similar to Mac leveraging a “secure enclave” and other things like processor containerization of processes etc.

Those things have only been officially implemented on Intel 8th Gen and above it was partially in 7th Gen after the fact etc.

So stop complaining they try to make a stand and do better and people want it to work on things that don’t handle the new features.

Yes it might work on older stuff but you aren’t getting all of the new security stuff so Microsoft isn’t going to “bless” it.

Mac does this too and at this point you should know that. How often does a new OS have a list of these things only work on Macs with Secure Enclave or iPhone 11 and above. You can still upgrade but you’re not getting the same experience.

Microsoft hasn’t handled the verbiage as well as Apple does and they are trying to advertise a more secure OS. They can’t do that if half the security features are disabled due to hardware limitations.

 

[Shirasaki]

Yah, that's not how my (VMware...)'s lawyers interpret the EULA.

OEM is only sold to OEMs, obvi, but the Insider Preview EULA states that it can only be installed on devices that already came with Windows on ARM pre-installed (which includes all of 0 Mac devices).

They can change EULA to fit new business model. And do you believe Microsoft would send out lawyers shutting down parallel windows support? And ARM insider build isn’t something that is unavailable or whatever. Heck, one random dude can play around ARM Windows if he is willing to emulate it on an X86 machine using special tools.

 

[mikeroySoft]

They can change EULA to fit new business model. And do you believe Microsoft would send out lawyers shutting down parallel windows support? And ARM insider build isn’t something that is unavailable or whatever. Heck, one random dude can play around ARM Windows if he is willing to emulate it on an X86 machine using special tools.

Of course, and if they do change their EULA we (VMware Fusion) will be ready almost immediately.
But just because it's technically possible doesn't mean it isn't still going against the license agreement.

 

[rpmurray]

Windows 10 is supposed to be supported until October 14, 2015

It's already no longer supported? I didn't know that!

 

[bobcomer]

How do you know Parallels doesn't have an agreement with MS? They could have an OEM or development agreement with MS. Or are upgrading non-OEM licenses?

They would tell us if they did. (on their website -- it would be a marketing point!)

 

[Cayenne1]

And what exactly does Win11, or for that matter Monterey, bring to the table that you desperately need?

I'd venture to say - nothing - unless/maybe to support yet to be released hardware.

Win11/Monterey are not APPS that do productive work. They only host them.

 

[Shirasaki]

Of course, and if they do change their EULA we (VMware Fusion) will be ready almost immediately.
But just because it's technically possible doesn't mean it isn't still going against the license agreement.

So, according to that, Windows on ARM outside of ARM computer is illegal, then parallel and VMware would’ve just announced the end of Windows support on all future Macs, effectively killing half of their business. But they still proceed to support it. Wonder how this would play out.

 

[mdriftmeyer]

While I prefer RISC to CISC, Apple didn't make the M1 move in the right way: they expect that the software industry will follow and port their software, because Apple thinks they still can make the market move at will, like in the Jobs era. That's a big mistake, because iOS is strong, but MacOS isn't anymore: In the field of Architecture and AEC (which is the field I know best), all the users with Macs used Bootcamp or Parallels, as all the applications in the area are Windows only (except AutoCAD, which is used less and less nowadays, and ArchiCAD).

What's going to happen isn't that Revit, SAP2000, or Robot will be ported to ARM. They won't be ported. What will happen is that no Architecture student is going to buy a Mac anymore.

I've seen this move in my Architecture School: Ten years ago, most students had a Mac. Today, all of them have PCs, just because neither Revit nor any other software used at the School runs on MacOS.

Of course there's a second read to this: The main goal of Apple is the iPad. They really want the iPad to be the bestselling "computer" (if you can call that a computer). So, they don't care what software is supported on the Mac, provided that the iPad is cheap and everybody can buy it, so that, a decade from now, all major apps will run on it. That's obviously their strategy. But no, my computer will be a computer, not an iPad.

I would add, the reason AutoCAD isn't used as much is because Autodesk's successor to AutoCAD is Revit, and they won't port it to OS X because that would mean two branches of base code, x86_64/arm64. AutoCAD's bread and butter is on Windows, not MacOS.

 

[4jasontv]

Xbox is a different strategy, it's about content and subscription revenue streams. Releasing a Mac OS compatible Windows "app" really doesn't support ongoing subscription sales nor would such a market be larger enough, IMHO, for MS to justify making and supporting it. Windows has a large OEM market base so ongoing development means ongoing sales, and that allows MS to offer free upgrades; plus it means a more up to date OS base for MS' products as well.

Once MS sold into the market for an Mac OS Windows product, the growth would be small, so either they charge regular update fees, like Parallels, or give it away like Fusion, neither of which is worth the trouble for such a small return.

But Xbox doesn’t make any money. The consoles are sold at a loss, game pass is sold at a loss, and royalties don’t make up that difference. Xbox exists solely because Microsoft wants to be in the video game market.

All Microsoft would need to make a Mac version of windows is the desire to be on the Mac.

 

[M3centurion]

Windows 11?!? We're still waiting on the release version of Windows 10 for ARM, that will run in Parallels on the M1 Macs. Come on, Microsoft.

I have just upgraded from Windows 10 for ARM to Windows 11 in Parallels on my M1 Mac Mini

 

[rgbrock1]

The difference is Windows can run on some pretty old hardware. Apple, on the other hand, gives users of older Apple stuff the big middle finger and says "F you" after 5-6 years.

Oh? From a previous column on this site describing the hardware requirements for macOS Monterey:

• ‌iMac‌ - Late 2015 and later
• ‌iMac‌ Pro - 2017 and later
• ‌MacBook Air‌ - Early 2015 and later
• MacBook Pro - Early 2015 and later
• Mac Pro - Late 2013 and later
• Mac mini - Late 2014 and later
• MacBook - Early 2016 and later

Last time I looked the year 2013 was 8 years ago. Not 5-6 years.

 

[bobcomer]

So, according to that, Windows on ARM outside of ARM computer is illegal, then parallel and VMware would’ve just announced the end of Windows support on all future Macs, effectively killing half of their business. But they still proceed to support it. Wonder how this would play out.

VMWare very definitely doesn't support it. They're only working on Linux support for Fusion on M1. (and why I wont be buying the new version!) Their reasoning is the EULA for WoA.