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[WW] MRville VI: GAME OVER - VILLAGERS WIN

iBlue said:
^

I thought he meant it the way you've put it, which is what I'd prefer. Actions and who they were taken against but not the originator of the actions.
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Still not what I'm suggesting. I'm saying that the person shouldn't even know the context of the action. (eat, infect, suck blood, protect, scan etc.). They only know the target of the actions. I think if they knew the type of action and the target, they'd figure it all out way too quickly.

For instance, seer scans Sally, vamp scans Billy, goth scans Rufus, hunter protects Gertrude, hunter protects Bertha, undertaker scans Beatrice, wolves eat Remus.

The spy gets this list at the end of the night:
Sally
Billy
Rufus
Gertrude
Bertha
Beatrice
Remus

Come morning, he'd know Remus was the ww action since he's dead. However, if there's a failed attack the night prior, he can possibly know whether it was protection (name appears twice) or immunity. There's still a pitfall because a name appearing twice doesn't necessarily imply he's the person being protected.

ravenvii would have to take care to make the list random (or he could just assemble his list as he received the PMs), else the spy could glean the type of action based on the order that actions occur at night.
 
iBlue said:
^

I thought he meant it the way you've put it, which is what I'd prefer. Actions and who they were taken against but not the originator of the actions.
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I'd actually think that that would be too powerful. Just getting a list of names who the actions are against would be a bit better because even getting the actions would give them a lot of power. It would be more fun with just getting the names.
 
chrmjenkins said:
Still not what I'm suggesting. I'm saying that the person shouldn't even know the context of the action. (eat, infect, suck blood, protect, scan etc.). They only know the target of the actions. I think if they knew the type of action and the target, they'd figure it all out way too quickly.
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Ooooh. :eek: Hmm, good point. Giving away the action of infecting a certain player or so and so turning into a vampire, etc would be a pretty bad idea.
 
-aggie- said:
I'd like a "Can't eat or vote off -aggie- on the first day" rule. All in favor? The ayes have it. Make it so ravenvii.
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Oh shut up, you crybaby. Everyone knows Rodimus hates my guts more then everyone hates yours. :p
 
iBlue said:
Now, like a broken record I want to bring up maybe two Seers. Even if they are not aware of the other, reducing their scan efficiency.
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Actually I'm thinking either allowing the undertaker and seer PM each other, or simply eliminating the undertaker and replacing him with another seer.

I'm not sure.
 
ravenvii said:
Actually I'm thinking either allowing the undertaker and seer PM each other, or simply eliminating the undertaker and replacing him with another seer.

I'm not sure.
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I like the first of the two better. As Chris did an excellent job when he was the undertaker and really used the role to his advantage.
 
Rodimus Prime said:
I would say not to have a vote on the first day. I hate it and we never get any were on it.
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As we have discussed before, this proves nothing. You are just prolonging the inevitable. The first round of voting is always going to suck. Always. Regardless of whether you start at day or night, or whether or not you vote the first day. You don't and can't have enough information at the beginning to vote effectively. All you can do is guess and hope you get lucky or someone says something stupid.

ravenvii said:
Actually I'm thinking either allowing the undertaker and seer PM each other, or simply eliminating the undertaker and replacing him with another seer.

I'm not sure.
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I like the first option.
 
jav6454 said:
Then we might as well start in the Night.
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The first werewolf game started out in the night and the consensus was that was a bad idea because then you lose a villager and they don't get to do anything. At least with a vote you can provide a defense for yourself and participate.
 
one way to keep people more involved, is to make them feel 'special' ;)
so here are three possible additional roles that could add to the game:

the Alderman: elective position. gets vote count double at lynching.
s/he is elected by relative majority of the living and remains in charge until a new one is elected (or s/he dies). the open votes can be changed at any time, but are re-counted only at the end of each day (per lynching narration). next day the new Alderman gets double votes. you can't vote for yourself and the tie breaker is the first to get the tied votes.

the Magistrate: one-shot chance to 'talk the mob' out of lynching someone, including him/herself.
This is done openly during the day and can still be done after the majority is reached. Once the defense is declared, the votes for the defended are canceled (the rest of the votes remain valid) and the day proceeds, so after the action the Magistrate is automatically outed as a villager.
An alternative for the same role, is that the Magistrate declares today a "no-lynching day", and the day end instantly with no lynchings, no matter what the vote status was.

the Night Guardian: full protection from any night activity, including any kind of scan, good or bad. can't be used twice on same person, or on self.
 
abijnk said:
As we have discussed before, this proves nothing. You are just prolonging the inevitable. The first round of voting is always going to suck. Always. Regardless of whether you start at day or night, or whether or not you vote the first day. You don't and can't have enough information at the beginning to vote effectively. All you can do is guess and hope you get lucky or someone says something stupid.

.
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While that is true the problem with the first day voting is the wolves have a huge advantage to keep themselves from being voted on. They can all vote for one person to start something or to keep one of them from getting voted off. Villagers have nothing to go on.

Now if we start at night the Seer at least gets to scan someone and chances are will at least know who one of the villagers are.
 
Don't panic said:
one way to keep people more involved, is to make them feel 'special' ;)
so here are three possible additional roles that could add to the game:

the Alderman: elective position. gets vote count double at lynching.
s/he is elected by relative majority of the living and remains in charge until a new one is elected (or s/he dies). the open votes can be changed at any time, but are re-counted only at the end of each day (per lynching narration). next day the new Alderman gets double votes. you can't vote for yourself and the tie breaker is the first to get the tied votes.

the Magistrate: one-shot chance to 'talk the mob' out of lynching someone, including him/herself.
This is done openly during the day and can still be done after the majority is reached. Once the defense is declared, the votes for the defended are canceled (the rest of the votes remain valid) and the day proceeds, so after the action the Magistrate is automatically outed as a villager.
An alternative for the same role, is that the Magistrate declares today a "no-lynching day", and the day end instantly with no lynchings, no matter what the vote status was.

the Night Guardian: full protection from any night activity, including any kind of scan, good or bad. can't be used twice on same person, or on self.
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Not a fan of any of those personally.
 
Rodimus Prime said:
While that is true the problem with the first day voting is the wolves have a huge advantage to keep themselves from being voted on. They can all vote for one person to start something or to keep one of them from getting voted off. Villagers have nothing to go on.

Now if we start at night the Seer at least gets to scan someone and chances are will at least know who one of the villagers are.
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'
This gets discussed everytime and we don't seem to reach a consensus, so i don't think we will now, but in my opinion the wolves don't get any advantage by starting at day, especially in a large village: 2 out of 20 is hardly enough to drive the vote, and unlikely the wolves are going to cluster their votes on day one.

The seer can only scan one person and s/he is not going to share that information right away anyways (we saw how bad an idea is for the seer to come out immediately in the last game), so how is this going to help the village?

The first votes are pretty much random, whether they are based on random.org or any stated reason. if you have them in the second day, they are still equally random.
 
This prayer thing is an interesting idea. It would be neat if it could be used for other things.
"I pray to the Gods to give xxx immunity"
Maybe it could be based on a point system. Every night the village gains a point. And prayers could use a certain number of points based on their potency.
1 point for an identity reveal
2 points for immunity
4 points for an insta-kill.

I also think that the vampire hunter shouldn't be chosen until the Vampires are activated. It's pretty dumb to have a hunter for something that doesn't exist.
 
appleguy123 said:
This prayer thing is an interesting idea. It would be neat if it could be used for other things.
"I pray to the Gods to give xxx immunity"
Maybe it could be based on a point system. Every night the village gains a point. And prayers could use a certain number of points based on their potency.
1 point for an identity reveal
2 points for immunity
4 points for an insta-kill.

I also think that the vampire hunter shouldn't be chosen until the Vampires are activated. It's pretty dumb to have a hunter for something that doesn't exist.
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They can use their insta-kill at any time during the game. It's possible they could guess a goth/vamp before they are activated and use it.
 
appleguy123 said:
I also think that the vampire hunter shouldn't be chosen until the Vampires are activated. It's pretty dumb to have a hunter for something that doesn't exist.
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Really? I was the vampire hunter last game and used my insta-kill and revealed a werewolf before the vampires "existed" so I don't think it is dumb at all...
 
Priest: Can pray to the Gods for answers to any question. Requires 3 villagers to agree to participate in the ritual. Can ask the gods any yes/no question. One-time ability. This is all done in the open (not via PM).
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this could be interesting.
Spy: Privy to all the actions of all specials. Will be updated every night. Neutral affiliation (double-agent)
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it's overpowered as stated, and it seems overcomplicated in chrmjenkins version, except towards the end of the game. and what does it mean he is neutral? how does that part play out? In Chrmjenkins variant should be a psychic more than a spy.

T
he Brotherhood: Villagers who can PM each other. Starts with 3 villagers. Can recruit up to 2 more.
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this i like (but 5 total is too much). i would start with 2, plus one recruit

Timewarden: Has one-time ability to turn back time. Can turn time backwards up to one day. Undoes any infections, killings or lynchings.
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don't like


Parliamentary procedure: Every few days (or perhaps the entire game?), the villagers vote for a Judge. After that, the Judge dictates the vote. This follows proper procedure (Someone brings up a name, and there must be a "second", then everyone votes yes/no and if there is a majority of yay, the person is lynched). The Judge can dictate a time limit, as well, or even to modify voting rules (1/3 majority, 2/3 majority, etc) within boundaries.
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too compicated, would slow down proceedings even more
Instant ability is only usable during the daytime (insta-kill and infections)
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agree, it solves possible problem of time priorities at night

Additional Information to be given during the game:

Inform Hunters of attempted attack/infection on him/her
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No, and i don't think the vamp hunter should be informed that the vamps get activated either. s/he should just protect from the beginning, even if it's not necessary yet.
Inform wolves/vampires of reason of failure
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No let them work it out
Inform goths of counterpart's scans (but not the Vampire).
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No, with two goths it's already good probability, they just got unlucky last game
Hunters will be revealed upon use of insta-kill
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No, not necessary

Other:

Deterrence to betrayal to player's affiliation. Suggestions?
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you could not let automatically know the recruited/infected of the identity of the others. they would only know that they are, for example, infected, and then the wolfes decide if and when to discloe their identity (or they might just disclose one)
We need to make the vampires more powerful. Suggestions?
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i am not sure they are underpowered. they got unlucky last game because one goth was discovered immediately. If anything you can have that all 3 start as inactive vampire and any combo is good for activity. so they all have immunity from wolves and they are not gone if the by chance the head-vamp is killed right away.
it would also reduce the 'alignment' issues.

i think stonyc's blood-tasting idea is neat but way overpowered. the king vamp basically would be an evil seer with superpowers and some immunity, or did i get it wrong?

Game pace - time limit issues
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IMO the most important question to address.
i agree with abijnk, a longish day time limit at which relative majority is counted. if an absolute majority is reached before deadline, then current rules apply.
 
jav6454 said:
Something funny, renewed and I debated whether to kill you just to be funny or make Rodimus not leave unhappy.

In the end, we decided for -aggie-
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and I thought renweed was my pal. :(

I think we should add a special role called "Tommy Gun" it's assigned randomly to any villager, and he has one chance during the game to shoot everyone else and be left standing by himself. Kills everyone, including wolves and vampires. The good thing is he can only use it once! What say? Good idear?

Or what about the "Mantle Trophy"? Assigned to the first person who votes for a someone who turns out to be a werewolf! The Mantle Trophy gives him double votes in the next lynching - eg, his vote counts twice, unless he happens to vote twice for the same person, then his vote counts four times! The great thing is he can use this over and over again.

Or what d'you think about the "Humvee" - where one villager is assigned the role (randomly, of course!) and has the option to run over any other player, and then if they turn out to be a werewolf or vampire he can present the trophy to the player assigned the "Mantle Trophy" role, and they BOTH get double votes!

Also, consider the "Holy Hand Grenade" - assigned by popular vote to one villager, who then has the one-time ability to say the holy chant - after which the Holy Hand Grenade detonates around a single post he names and both the villager who posted it and the ones who posted immediately before and after that post are blown up!

I also like the "Genuine Hillary Rodham Clinton Red Telephone™" role - assigned to one player, he has the ability to (during the night only) PM the President, eg Ravenvii, and get some up and close and personal info on player roles he can then try to convince the village of believing!

PS: I am being facetious, just in case you might be tempted to take me seriously... :D
 
I vote for Holy Hand Grenade. We should also have a Holy Hand Grenade 2.0 which would detonate with an even bigger explosion.
 
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