[WW] The MRville Horror, Part 3 GAME OVER - Villagers Win!

[King Mook Mook]

Well I'm about to get off for tonight and may not know when I will be able to get back on. So I making my vote now-King Mook Mook

Umm, okay, any reasons for voting for moi?

I'll admit, it probably looks bad that I voted for willbro, but I must say, and I'm sure you can all agree with me, jav6454 made what could be regarded as none other then a fantastic argument, so kudos to you sir (and your pictures)!

The only reason I did that was because I thought that jav6454's argument held water (and used fantastic rhetoric), while willbro's argument didn't have the same evidence or logic (or, at the risk of sounding rude rhetoric)! I'll say it now, just if there was any doubt, I am most certainty a run-of-the-mill (literally) villager (and I believe that if one was a werewolf, they shouldn't directly lie about it, ruins the game IMO). Now you may not believe me, and I don't blame you, but what I do ask is that you believe in me. Believe that there is no evidence against me, because well, there isn't, and if there is, Mexbearpig was extremely good at concealing it!

I'm sure my detractors will raise the argument that I haven't posted much, and therefore I'm the werewolf. And the former is true. I haven't been posting much. If you find that to be an issue I suggest you take it up with my school! I would love to post more, and look at this thread more often (what the hell is going on with the 'on hold' anyway?), but the fact of the matter is, one, Macrumors is blocked at my school, two, I have more homework and studying then I do time, and hence don't have much time to go on MR, as sad as that is! My only posts have been voting for someone, as that's really all I have time to do (it's a Friday now, and I'll put off the work for the weekend, so I can defend myself here!). If anyone is doubtful about this, I can show you all my (I dare say fantastic) oral on the novel 'Life of Pi' (a ripping yarn if I do say so myself, seriously, if you haven't read it, stop posting on MR and do!) and my essay on 'Looking for Alibrandi' (an Australian cultural novel, not exactly my cup of tea, but this, like Life of Pi, has one fantastic ending, and really makes the book).

Please don't vote for me,
King Mook Mook

P.S. If anyone wants the condensed version of this here you go:

• I'm not a werewolf, I am a villager and I think this game is only fun if you do not lie about that.
• There is no evidence against me (that has been raised at least!)
• I've been having a lot of school work, you can read my work, and that's why I couldn't post much.

 

[iBlue]

^ I'm just a zombie in this game but I believe you. I also totally agree about the lying. I think it's a scummy thing to do. People can simply chose their words carefully rather than outright lying. anjiham managed it brilliantly in one game and nearly won she got so far.

I still wish I knew what the hell went on with those mystery posts. Come on, someone PM me or something.

 

[Mexbearpig]

Defense

Well I withdraw my vote for you. And since things need to get sorted out I will not vote for anyone...

 

[tooz]

Umm, okay, any reasons for voting for moi?

I'll admit, it probably looks bad that I voted for willbro, but I must say, and I'm sure you can all agree with me, jav6454 made what could be regarded as none other then a fantastic argument, so kudos to you sir (and your pictures)!

The only reason I did that was because I thought that jav6454's argument held water (and used fantastic rhetoric), while willbro's argument didn't have the same evidence or logic (or, at the risk of sounding rude rhetoric)! I'll say it now, just if there was any doubt, I am most certainty a run-of-the-mill (literally) villager (and I believe that if one was a werewolf, they shouldn't directly lie about it, ruins the game IMO). Now you may not believe me, and I don't blame you, but what I do ask is that you believe in me. Believe that there is no evidence against me, because well, there isn't, and if there is, Mexbearpig was extremely good at concealing it!

I'm sure my detractors will raise the argument that I haven't posted much, and therefore I'm the werewolf. And the former is true. I haven't been posting much. If you find that to be an issue I suggest you take it up with my school! I would love to post more, and look at this thread more often (what the hell is going on with the 'on hold' anyway?), but the fact of the matter is, one, Macrumors is blocked at my school, two, I have more homework and studying then I do time, and hence don't have much time to go on MR, as sad as that is! My only posts have been voting for someone, as that's really all I have time to do (it's a Friday now, and I'll put off the work for the weekend, so I can defend myself here!). If anyone is doubtful about this, I can show you all my (I dare say fantastic) oral on the novel 'Life of Pi' (a ripping yarn if I do say so myself, seriously, if you haven't read it, stop posting on MR and do!) and my essay on 'Looking for Alibrandi' (an Australian cultural novel, not exactly my cup of tea, but this, like Life of Pi, has one fantastic ending, and really makes the book).

Please don't vote for me,
King Mook Mook

P.S. If anyone wants the condensed version of this here you go:

• I'm not a werewolf, I am a villager and I think this game is only fun if you do not lie about that.
• There is no evidence against me (that has been raised at least!)
• I've been having a lot of school work, you can read my work, and that's why I couldn't post much.

I'm doing life of Pi too! (just reading it though). I did an essay on Looking for Alibrandi for year 10 last year, (all about boundaries) I can PM you a copy if you want...

Oh and I feel pretty safe about you

 

[Tomorrow]

I will be leaving town for the weekend. I know how people loooove to use that a hard and fast proof of wolfism (?), but know that in this case it isn't true.

I still don't have any inkling as to who is a werewolf or vampire right now, though. I'll hold my vote for just a bit, and hope I can get off a vote later today.

 

[King Mook Mook]

I'm doing life of Pi too! (just reading it though). I did an essay on Looking for Alibrandi for year 10 last year, (all about boundaries) I can PM you a copy if you want...

Oh and I feel pretty safe about you

Gee, thanks, I feel safe about you too! And I wish I had spoken to you earlier; I had to hand in my 'Looking for Alibrandi' essay yesterday! In any event, I was pretty happy with it, but needless to say, Looking for Alibrandi is not going to rank up with my favourite books.

Seriously though, how good is Life of Pi? It has to be one of my favourite books I've ever read! I love how the novel features what I believe to be perfectly executed prose with masterful technique and a refreshing style. It is, for all intents and purposes, a true modern day fable, and no doubt, a classic! And I find Martel's point about the better story so very poignant. A little excerpt from my speech:

"The “better story” is the one that keeps you going. It’s the one that gives you courage to survive in a world that can be callous and inexplicable. The better story is the one that celebrates the wonders of the world, instead of lamenting its shortcomings."

And it's so very true! I also love his points about agnostics, and how they choose to feel doubt and uncertainty in their lives, and that they lack the capability to believe (just as Atheists believe in science, and Theists believe in God, etc.) and therefore will miss the better story and have a life as unappetising as "yeastless bread".

 

[abijnk]

^ I'm just a zombie in this game but I believe you. I also totally agree about the lying. I think it's a scummy thing to do. People can simply chose their words carefully rather than outright lying. anjiham managed it brilliantly in one game and nearly won she got so far.

I still wish I knew what the hell went on with those mystery posts. Come on, someone PM me or something.

You guys do understand that the whole point of the game is deception, right?

You are correct that anjij nearly won without it. Key word in italics.

 

[philbeeney]

Ok, I come back after a good night sleep in the land of the dead and I find posts rescinded / redacted / modified, etc. I assume somebody let slip with some vital information that has a major impact on the game, hence being on hold whilst ravenvii works out what to do next.

Apart from that, I'm enjoying all the commentary from everyone trying to justify not being killed by the werewolves or vampires.

 

[King Mook Mook]

You guys do understand that the whole point of the game is deception, right?

You are correct that anjij nearly won without it. Key word in italics.

Deception isn't just lying though, I mean anjij almost won, and she did use deception. But she did not lie. A lie is a falsehood straight out, but deception may have the observer in fooling himself - by lies, perhaps, but also tricks of misdirection, as so effectively used by anjij.

So lie ≠ deception. And I would hazard that one is no more effective then the other.

And really, what's the point in flat out lying in this game when you can't do the normal lie detections as you can in real Mafia or Werewolf games? It just hollow, it adds nothing, you're just cheating yourself. Come on if anjij can do it, and almost win without lying, I'm sure everyone else can do it too!

 

[anjinha]

Awwwww, you guys are making me blush.

 

[jav6454]

Umm, okay, any reasons for voting for moi?

I'll admit, it probably looks bad that I voted for willbro, but I must say, and I'm sure you can all agree with me, jav6454 made what could be regarded as none other then a fantastic argument, so kudos to you sir (and your pictures)!

The only reason I did that was because I thought that jav6454's argument held water (and used fantastic rhetoric), while willbro's argument didn't have the same evidence or logic (or, at the risk of sounding rude rhetoric)! I'll say it now, just if there was any doubt, I am most certainty a run-of-the-mill (literally) villager (and I believe that if one was a werewolf, they shouldn't directly lie about it, ruins the game IMO).

Why thank you good sir! I tried to set up a strong defense. I know I did good because I got Master Debater Gelfin to become indecisive and confused to the point were he had to coin toss his vote. Now, that was a victory for me, even though he voted against me. You see, I knew there some votes that I couldn't change at all. Like the first 3 votes. Those were under the mob mentality and lanslide. It's *very* tough to convince otherwise.

However, I feel I did good job convincing the few people that voted against willbro.

^ Oh okay, thanks. (just realized it's in the rules, duh.)

So, did you get your chance to spread the wolfism, jav? (or do you not want to say?)

I hope your werewolf hunter isn't dead. I'll love to see who they choose to instantly kill.

</post from zombieland>

Did I get the chance? Man, I wish I could answer that... but the official statement from Teh Wolf Pack, is that, there are no wolves here. It's just highly carnivore people who just happen to be moderately hairy. It's politics working and descrimination against hairy people, surely you understand?

You guys do understand that the whole point of the game is deception, right?

You are correct that anjij nearly won without it. Key word in italics.

I also tried to do it without right out lying. That is why I always used the words if I were the wolf and I am a villager (in retrospect, we are all villagers, but someone of us are 'special' villagers.

 

[abijnk]

Deception isn't just lying though, I mean anjij almost won, and she did use deception. But she did not lie. A lie is a falsehood straight out, but deception may have the observer in fooling himself - by lies, perhaps, but also tricks of misdirection, as so effectively used by anjij.

So lie ≠ deception. And I would hazard that one is no more effective then the other.

And really, what's the point in flat out lying in this game when you can't do the normal lie detections as you can in real Mafia or Werewolf games? It just hollow, it adds nothing, you're just cheating yourself. Come on if anjij can do it, and almost win without lying, I'm sure everyone else can do it too!

But lying is perfectly permissible by the rules, so calling Jav scummy or hollow or any other derogatory adjective for employing a strategy that you wouldn't personally use is downright low.

I think it was awesome that anjinhamarota was able to finess her way so close to the finish line, but that doesn't mean that we should expect everyone to play the same way. That would get boring fast.

I don't think it's right to insult players for playing styles that are clearly 100% within the rules.

 

[Mexbearpig]

That would get boring fast.

I agree.
And I think lying and decieving are practically the same thing. Lying is telling someone false info to mislead them. Decieving is just making someone believe something else.

 

[anjinha]

I also tried to do it without right out lying. That is why I always used the words if I were the wolf and I am a villager (in retrospect, we are all villagers, but someone of us are 'special' villagers.

That's lying too, you were saying "if i were the werewolf", which you were, "i wouldnt do this" but you were in fact doing that. That's what tipped me against you though (even though I'm not playing). You kept saying "if I were the werewolf I wouldn't do this" but that means you knew what people expected the werewolf to do so you can, in fact, do the opposite.

 

[iBlue]

But lying is perfectly permissible by the rules, so calling Jav scummy or hollow or any other derogatory adjective for employing a strategy that you wouldn't personally use is downright low.

I think it was awesome that anjinhamarota was able to finess her way so close to the finish line, but that doesn't mean that we should expect everyone to play the same way. That would get boring fast.

I don't think it's right to insult players for playing styles that are clearly 100% within the rules.

I hadn't really thought of it like that. It was just my opinion that outright lying is a scummy thing to do but I didn't mean to hurt any feelings over it.

 

[Gelfin]

Yeah, I have to say I'm on the liars' side here. Jav's performance (kudos, sir) notwithstanding, many of us seem to be doing a good job of picking out suspicious statements even over text. Actually, I think it makes for an interesting challenge specifically because in a real life game most people just are not effective liars. Should we intentionally go down to that level?

Once we decide lying is not kosher but obfuscation is, I see the tense stand-offs like we had yesterday getting reduced to:

MOB: PlayerA, are you a werewolf?
A: Nope.
MOB: PlayerB, same question.
B: Well, it depends on your definition of...
MOB: To the gallows!

I think it played out better the way we did it, and I am really hoping this game hasn't been permanently borked through operator error here.

(And "master debater," thanks, jav. I may have missed the final vote because I was off master debating, in fact.)

 

[abijnk]

I hadn't really thought of it like that. It was just my opinion that outright lying is a scummy thing to do but I didn't mean to hurt any feelings over it.

I undertand your aversion completely. In everyday society lying is scummy. But that's what makes this game fun, isn't it? That we get to break outside of those types of norms and try to manipulate people.

Or at least, I think that part is fun. I'm the peon in most of my real life situations so having an equal chance as everyone around me to play the bad guy or get the bad guy is pretty cool.

 

[jav6454]

Yeah, I have to say I'm on the liars' side here. Jav's performance (kudos, sir) notwithstanding, many of us seem to be doing a good job of picking out suspicious statements even over text. Actually, I think it makes for an interesting challenge specifically because in a real life game most people just are not effective liars. Should we intentionally go down to that level?

Once we decide lying is not kosher but obfuscation is, I see the tense stand-offs like we had yesterday getting reduced to:

MOB: PlayerA, are you a werewolf?
A: Nope.
MOB: PlayerB, same question.
B: Well, it depends on your definition of...
MOB: To the gallows!

I think it played out better the way we did it, and I am really hoping this game hasn't been permanently borked through operator error here.

(And "master debater," thanks, jav. I may have missed the final vote because I was off master debating, in fact.)

Agreed.

 

[anjinha]

To be fair I think people are giving me too much credit about the lying thing. I was lucky that most people in the game liked me, so they weren't likely to vote for me for no reason. Add to that the fact that I'm naturally a pretty discreet person and most people saw no reason to suspect me until the very end. It is true that I avoided lying but it was only a small part of it.

 

[mscriv]

OK, so does anyone have any idea as to what is going on with the game? Ravenvii was pretty clear from the beginning of the first game that there was not to be any editing of posts so people should choose their words wisely. Besides, as you all have been discussing, the name of the game is deception and so even if someone laid out some "behind the scenes" information no one would know if it was truth, wild speculation, or purposeful misdirection.

The only thing I can think of is that ravenvii either mixed up his games, since he's running two of them now, and posted narration in the wrong thread or he mixed up the thread and private PM stuff and accidentally posted what was supposed to be a PM into the actual thread. I could see this happening if you've got multiple tabs open and were juggling all the info from both games.

Hmm.... Hopefully we'll all find out soon what's going on and the game can resume.

 

[anjinha]

OK, so does anyone have any idea as to what is going on with the game? Ravenvii was pretty clear from the beginning of the first game that there was not to be any editing of posts so people should choose their words wisely. Besides, as you all have been discussing, the name of the game is deception and so even if someone laid out some "behind the scenes" information no one would know if it was truth, wild speculation, or purposeful misdirection.

The only thing I can think of is that ravenvii either mixed up his games, since he's running two of them now, and posted narration in the wrong thread or he mixed up the thread and private PM stuff and accidentally posted what was supposed to be a PM into the actual thread. I could see this happening if you've got multiple tabs open and were juggling all the info from both games.

Hmm.... Hopefully we'll all find out soon what's going on and the game can resume.

Even if the game is deception Ravenvii isn't really part of that, so if he indeed posted behind the scenes stuff I'm sure whatever it was it was true.

 

[iBlue]

I'd just like to know, even in very general terms, what actually happened with those posts. I know some of you have to know.

 

[ravenvii]

Okay, I think you guys deserve an explanation. However, I can't reveal much, not yet anyway. It isn't an "operator error." There was some disagreements between a couple of players here. I gave them a day to figure it out. The game will proceed tonight, with or without them.

 

[jav6454]

I'd just like to know, even in very general terms, what actually happened with those posts. I know some of you have to know.

By today at 9PM EST you'll find out.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

Okay, I think you guys deserve an explanation. However, I can't reveal much, not yet anyway. It isn't an "operator error." There was some disagreements between a couple of players here. I gave them a day to figure it out. The game will proceed tonight, with or without them.

Thank you for telling us as much as you can. We can stop trying to spin our wheels trying to figure out what it was.