WWDC - No iMacs, but Yes Displays?

[Porchland]

and more

This curved-bottom design is very promising but doesn't seem to lend itself to wall-mounting. Maybe this style is going to replace the 17/20/23 currently available with a slightly different style for a larger display.

Then again, maybe there's a seam at the bottom of the display where the curved bottom can be removed.

 

[wdlove]

I just checked Best Buy's web site, and they carry a full line of desktops (iMac, PowerMac), notebooks (iBooks, PowerBooks), iPods (15, 20, 40, mini) and displays (17, 20, 23). All for the same prices as listed on apple.com.

I haven't noticed any apple displays in the stores. Anyone know whether most Best Buy stores are stocking the full line? How long has Best Buy had Apple?

I was at my local Best Buy about a month ago, they didn't have any Apple equipment at all. It was mainly window's. They had modems for Mac's and some software.

 

[johnpaul191]

Normally I wouldn't care about an iMac release, but given the pathetic rev.B PowerMac update with a bunch of dead end technology, I am now bummed-out.

If there is no new iMac, I hope we see a G5 cube or something of that ilk because I don't want to spend 5 grand on what Apple is currently offering for the PM line.

Also, I hope to God Apple is smart enough and release matching wireless keyboards and mice with the new displays. It would be even worse than the current mismatching to have white kb/mouse and metal everything else.

I am very disappointed right now, but I suspect we are all going to be blown away. It's been a quiet year, and Apple really need the developer community and wants to build up WWDC attendance, so I suspect they have a ton of great things in store for us.

the RevB G5 is still awesome. Apple didn't punish us, they hit a technological hurdle that also has Intel and AMD spinning their tires. They do not owe us some other special device to make up for the processor issues. The towers are still damn cool.

G5 cube at this point would be either slow, or require a fan.... neither seems like a selling point.

honestly, i don't think i want a wireless keyboard/mouse. i don't drag my G4 tower around, and it's on 24/7. last thing i want to do is pollute the envoiroment with batteries (disposible or rechargable) when a lil cable will give me all the juice i need. that being said, the wireless bluetooth mouse is an amazing idea for powerbooks with BT built in. as someone looking at new towers, i see no need for a wireless keyboard. maybe as a BTO or aftermarket option, but eh.

WWDC attendence is not to see some special device released. the keynote is just that... a keynote. the real fun stuff is the rest of the conference about the inner working of 10.4 and how it works, and how the developers make their software take advantage of what's coming in the fall (or whenever 10.4 is out). the actualy developers are not there to report to the Mac community about the new toys, that's what the press is there for and they only stay for a few hours out of the whole deal.

 

[whooleytoo]

Apple *should* be in a rush to get a 64-bit O/S out to its developers - how can you develop 64-bit applications for the Mac today? I was told by an Apple employee that Apple will announce the 64-bit roadmap for OSX at WWDC. It's about time.

The timing should be very interesting.

Apple have already stated, after Tiger, major OS updates will be less frequent. (/Tangent - I think even the codename suggests that: previous codenames such as Cheetah, Jaguar etc were applied to give an impression of sleekness and speed to a sluggish OS. Tiger implies strength, stability, ruggedness).

Since we're currently on OS updates of roughly 12 to 15 months, we can assume there's not going to be a major release after Tiger for 18 months to 2 years (or more?).

This leaves three possibilites:
1) Tiger is 64bit. - Unlikely, it doesn't give developers enough time to rebuild their apps and test them. Unless, of course, Tiger isn't actually released for many months yet!

2) Apple slip out a 64 bit OS between 10.4 and 10.5 - This might be possible, a sort of 'soft release' of a 64 bit OS, that developers and early adopters (i.e. the lunatic fringe) can use and iron out the bugs before it becomes more mainstream in 10.5.

3) 10.5 Cougar/Tabby is 64 bit - which means we don't see a 64 bit OS for another 2 years?

This post was meant to clarify things, but I've only succeeded in confusing myself. (Wow.. that should be my new sig..)

 

[itsa]

STOOOOPPPP!!!!!

Laptops are NOT on par with desktops PERIOD.

The number #1 priority for a portable is to be portable.
Power is second. You cannot look at desktops and laptops
being in the same categories. PowerBooks are NOT PowerMacs.
The only similarity is some marketing ( ie: Power) to streamline
the products, that's it.

If people want a G5 right now than they should just get a desktop.

If power was second to portable, they would call them portablebooks, not POWERbooks.
For you it may be just a portable thing... if so, get a old 3400 and be happy.
For the rest of the world... we want POWER on the go!

 

[johnpaul191]

OK, just a short observation...

We all know about two new machine codes in 10.3.4 - the first was 7,3 (Dual G5/2.5) and the other is 8,1. So if there are no new iMacs at WWDC what is this code for? Just a new G4 iMac "silent" update in a few weeks or something completly new?

well say they released a new G5 tower today.... it might say 10.3.4 or 10.3.5 but it would not be the same 10.3.5 that you and i download in a few days. Apple has shipped machines with an OS number that is not our for the public, and it's a special build to enable that piece of hardware. when there are unidentified machines in the OS codes..... it could be a sign or not.

could that code have been the Xserve? what about the other G5s? did all 3 new ones use the same ID code?

 

[AidenShaw]

so you're writing 128-bit code today, right?

I can develop 64-bit applications today... however, I am still limited by a 32-bit application memory space (4GB), and 32-bit addressing with the OS. But that doesn't stop me from using all 64 bits in my calculation-heavy code... or altivec (depending on the data being grinded).

So, just because the OS is 32-bit (and imposes SOME limitations in the process), doesn't mean I can't develop apps that take advantage of 64-bit integer math.

It is the prevailing view in computer science that a "64-bit operating system" is one that presents a 64-bit virtual address space to the application. (That is, the value of sizeof(void *) is 8.

All common compilers (gcc, vc++, ...) provide 64-bit integers as a native (to the programmer) data type. You don't need 64-bit integer hardware to easily program 64-bit integer operations.

To point out a couple of other absurdities in your argument:

o VMX registers are 128-bit, but you don't claim that OS X on a G4 or G5 is a 128-bit system

o The OS X on a G4 has 32-bit integers, 32-bit pointers, 64-bit floats and 128-bit AltiVec - but you call this 32-bits

o The OS X on a G5 has (optional) 64-bit integers, 32-bit pointers, 64-bit floats and 128-bit AltiVec - but you claim that this is 64-bit


When pointers are 64-bits, it's a 64-bit operating system. The size of data is not used to describe the "bitness" of the O/S, it's the size of the pointers that is important.

 

[johnpaul191]

I was at my local Best Buy about a month ago, they didn't have any Apple equipment at all. It was mainly window's. They had modems for Mac's and some software.

Apple was trying out "store in a store" kinda thing for Best Buys in select areas. the testing period is over (predetermined test timeline, not like something went really wrong). i never really heard if there were any public conclusions to how it worked out. i guess Apple and Best Buy went over the data to determine if it's worth partnering up. It's possible the test stores kept the Apple gear at least till they figure out what's happening.

i know a few years back some Best Buys sold CRT iMacs and maybe more. i never saw them in a store near me (Philly PA area), so i guess that was limited too.

 

[iMeowbot]

ThinkSecret doesn't discount an iMac update this year, they just claim it won't be announced at WWDC. I tend to agree, do you push a new iMac at a DEVELOPER's conference? Don't be silly, you want your developers to buy shiny G5s and Powerbooks. This conference is for the developers, and so any announcements would be geared towards that crowd's demographic (i.e, no iMac/iBook/iPod announcements).

Really, it's reasonable to push the entire product line at a developer event, because what the whole spectrum customers will be buying dictates the type of software it will be profitable to develop.

 

[iMeowbot]

If power was second to portable, they would call them portablebooks, not POWERbooks.
For you it may be just a portable thing... if so, get a old 3400 and be happy.
For the rest of the world... we want POWER on the go!

Except for that first clunky portable attempt, they've always been called PowerBooks.

For comparison, the original high-end PowerBook, the 170, had a 25 MHz '030, while the top-end Quadra 900 released at the same time used an '040 at 25. An '040-based PB (the 520) didn't appear until almost 2 years later.

The unusually low power requirements of the G4 allowed notebook customers to get a bit of a free ride for a while, but no way could that have lasted forever.

 

[3.1416]

1) Tiger is 64bit. - Unlikely, it doesn't give developers enough time to rebuild their apps and test them. Unless, of course, Tiger isn't actually released for many months yet!

I agree that Tiger is unlikely to be 64-bit, but when Apple does release a 64-bit OS X, it will almost certainly run 32-bit apps transparently. There's no way they'd break binary compatibility with the G4 and with every prior OS version.

 

[jocknerd]

I would think G5 imac is not up coming before a G5 powerbook.
It just does not add up. That would all but kill apple. You just can't have your low end, out working your pro line.
I'm sure they have them made, but just can not send it to the line yet.

Wrong, having nothing to sell to consumers would harm Apple more than having a consumer level desktop outperform a business laptop.

Apple needs a consumer presence. The current iMacs and eMacs don't cut it. Drop the screen Steve! Give the consumers something for around $1000. Something that is a little expandable like being able to swap video cards, add memory. Trust me, your professionals aren't going to drop the PowerMac for it.

My neighbor wants a new computer. I'm trying to get her to go to Apple. But you don't have a lot for me to show her. Make a consumer line that isn't expensive to build (i.e. current iMac) so you can sell it at a price that is within range of competing PC's.

 

[whooleytoo]

I agree that Tiger is unlikely to be 64-bit, but when Apple does release a 64-bit OS X, it will almost certainly run 32-bit apps transparently. There's no way they'd break binary compatibility with the G4 and with every prior OS version.

Heh, if there's one thing Apple should be good at at this stage, it's handling transitions (such as 68K -> PPC with 68K emulation, OS 9 -> OSX with Classic)!

 

[iDave]

I haven't noticed any Apple displays in the stores. Anyone know whether most Best Buy stores are stocking the full line? How long has Best Buy had Apple?

I was in Best Buy in Asheville, NC in May. I couldn't find any Apple computers or displays. They had iPods though.

 

[paulypants]

If power was second to portable, they would call them portablebooks, not POWERbooks.
For you it may be just a portable thing... if so, get a old 3400 and be happy.
For the rest of the world... we want POWER on the go!

Nope. It's only marketing to denote that it is the most
powerful portable they offer -- NOT the most powerful system.
Desktops have ALWAYS been more powerful than portables...
and should be. Problem is people are caught up in the "coolness"
of portables and have the unrealistic expectation that they will
be as powerful or more powerful than the top desktop systems.

 

[BakedBeans]

what is everyone harping on about???

imac cant have higher specs than laptops???

well until the newly released rev c powerbooks were released the imacs where at 1.25 and the powerbooks were at 1ghz

um.... yeah i agree here is no way apple would have higher speecs in the imac than the powerbooks

 

[Mord]

put the crack pipe down the rev. b powerbooks were at 1GHz 12" 1.25GHz 15" and 1.33GHz 17"

 

[Coca-Cola]

Switchers Mac

I believe a new iMac is coming. Steve would be smart to notice concerns with the G4 iMac's price, non-removable lcd, and lack of G5. Apple needs a better low end line up. A 500 dollar iMac. The display needs to be seperate so people can upgrade and take their monitor with them. Apple could also increase sales of displays by not using the superior ADC connector. I have witnessed PC users purchasing the big apple displays. They really knock your socks off. An upgraded display that PC users can adopt more easily should be in the works. Apple also needs to start moving more G5 chips. Single g5 iMacs are a possiblitly and won't compete with the dual G5 Powermacs. The best part about a low end G5 iMac is the attraction to switchers. They may have a display already. Who wouldn't want to dish out 500 bucks for a fast computer with system software as good as iTunes?

 

[Mord]

I believe a new iMac is coming. Steve would be smart to notice concerns with the G4 iMac's price, non-removable lcd, and lack of G5. Apple needs a better low end line up. A 500 dollar iMac. The display needs to be seperate so people can upgrade and take their monitor with them. Apple could also increase sales of displays by not using the superior ADC connector. I have witnessed PC users purchasing the big apple displays. They really knock your socks off. An upgraded display that PC users can adopt more easily should be in the works. Apple also needs to start moving more G5 chips. Single g5 iMacs are a possiblitly and won't compete with the dual G5 Powermacs. The best part about a low end G5 iMac is the attraction to switchers. They may have a display already. Who wouldn't want to dish out 500 bucks for a fast computer with system software as good as iTunes?

again put the crack pipe down there will never be a $500 mac ever not in a million years not unless there is some serious deflation of the dollar

the point of the imac is it is all in one. what i would like is the moniter to be detachable from the current imac so you could buy a stand that has a dvi adc or vga connector on it so you can reuse it.

but that will never happen

i would like a cpu daughter card so that powerlogix or sonnet can step in in a few years time.

but that will never happen

I would like the pc industry to adopt adc (and that nearly happened) i like the simplicity of having one cable.

but that will never happen

come on people no more crack pipe posts

 

[BakedBeans]

put the crack pipe down the rev. b powerbooks were at 1GHz 12" 1.25GHz 15" and 1.33GHz 17"

yeah thats almost what i said....
bloody crack messin with my head...

but you get my point is it that unrealistic to have the imac at a better spec than the powerbook

 

[broken_keyboard]

I don't know why Apple even bothers with a consumer desktop any more. Laptops have enough power and will soon be no more expensive. Will the next iMac be the last?

I don't see Pros using exclusively laptops though.

I want a computer that is like a rug and you unfold it and hang it on the wall. Not a rug as is a wig, that would be just gross. Because if computers are like rugs then in 3rd world bizarres they can carry computers on their shoulders.

 

[paulypants]

yeah thats almost what i said....
bloody crack messin with my head...

but you get my point is it that unrealistic to have the imac at a better spec than the powerbook

Sooooo Apple should continue to use a G4 chip in the iMac until
the powerbooks go G5, then put a G5 in the iMac, but only if
it's a slower speed than the chips in the powerbooks? So the
iMacs may get another G4 speedbump sometime this year?

Powerbooks aren't going G5 for awhile.

Gimme some of that crack you're smokin cause I can't see it your
way unless i'm high...

 

[3.1416]

yeah thats almost what i said....
but you get my point is it that unrealistic to have the imac at a better spec than the powerbook

No, I don't. Assume for the moment that Apple can ship a G5 iMac this month, but can't ship a G5 Powerbook until the end of the year. Are you really saying that it would make sense for them to sit on the iMac for 6 months and suffer awful sales, just to maintain an artificial market segmentation?

 

[BakedBeans]

No, I don't. Assume for the moment that Apple can ship a G5 iMac this month, but can't ship a G5 Powerbook until the end of the year. Are you really saying that it would make sense for them to sit on the iMac for 6 months and suffer awful sales, just to maintain an artificial market segmentation?

guys thats not what im saying.... im saying that the imacs have been better speced (or the same) than laptops before .... so why not again...
dont get me wrong...i think they should release the imacs.... sorry for any confusion but if you re read my post i said is it unrealistic to have better imacs not it is unrealistic...... crack smokers lol

 

[mambodancer]

Nope. It's only marketing to denote that it is the most
powerful portable they offer -- NOT the most powerful system.
Desktops have ALWAYS been more powerful than portables...
and should be. Problem is people are caught up in the "coolness"
of portables and have the unrealistic expectation that they will
be as powerful or more powerful than the top desktop systems.

Exactly.

Power also refers to expandibility: Monitor spanning, gigabit ethernet, PCMCIA, firewire 800, DVI and S-video support, superdrive, built-in blue tooth and airport extreme.

Within the Macintosh product family there are three lines: laptops (iBook/Powerbook), all-in-one desktops (eMac/iMac), and PowerMacs. Powerbook helps distinguish the difference between the consumer level laptop and the professional level laptop.

Finally, the 17" and 20" iMacs have always surpassed the high end Powerbooks in terms of processor performance but not in expandibility. That's why I think apple is saving the introduction of the iMac for WWDC-that and the fact that eMac availability is constrained through the next several weeks, Apple has told us that iMacs are no longer available for reorder (I work at an Apple authorized dealer), and if Apple were going to just speed bump the iMac (to 1.5GHZ G4) I would have thought they would have introduced it shortly after the latest eMac update. I personally think "Think Secret" is wrong on no iMac intros.

That's my two cents worth. We'll all know on Monday.