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WWDC - No iMacs, but Yes Displays?
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mac128k said:France. Not Hilton. G5 iMac's announced in gay Pa-REE!!! here's how it'll go down...
Stevie is introduced as "STEPHAN" as he takes the stage in Paris Aug 31st. Clad in trademark black shirt (but with thick ribbed turtleneck that the Parisians go ga-ga over) and Jeans. A look that Derrick Zoolander would call "Derelicte".
Lights dim...
He launches into 20 minutes of boring rehash of progress we all already know the company has made (OS X adoption, iPod's installed base and last quarter's sales, yada, yada, yada)...
Get's heckled in French ("TROIS point OHH", "TROIS point OHH", "TROIS point OHH") when he comments on recent PowerMac upgrades...plus heckling in English by a few "Freedom Fry" loving "stinking Amehri-cahns" i.e. "Yanks".
And then he pops the question...
"What do Quentin Taratino, France, and McDonald's have in common?"
"Answer: Le Royale with Cheese"
"Now after today, what does APPLE, France, and the rest of the world have in common?"
"No it's not the iTumes Music Store. It's...
LeMac Royale. But there's no cheese here!" (cue sly Jobsian grin)
(Cue the music "Stuck in the middle with you". Out pops a LeMac Royale (redesigned G5 iMac replacement) from a rising pedestal in the floor as Ive and the design team come on stage and dance to the music (all of them still having both ears however)).
Ive presents the new LeMac Royale design, explaining that the previous iMac Sunflower design, while good looking, was "gimpy" due to the now woefully underpowered G4 and the lack of expansion. And he explained how he motivated his design team, suggesting that if they didn't come up with something "insanely great" that he'd "get medieval on their a%%es."
After some Ivesian spieling, Jobs takes over again, thanking Ives for his "bloody good" work while secretly fantasizing again about Sheryl Crow. (didn't anybody think there was something going on there?)
Jobs goes on to introduce some new, cool, yet underwhleming peripheral products all priced from $79-99. And he introduces Michael Moore as the next board member of Apple Computer, replacing Al Gore -- whose 15 minutes have already expired. (Justification: all of Farenheit 9/11 was produced on Mac hardware and software. Go FCP!!!)
And then as Jobs heads out and the lights dim, a larger than life face-shot of Samuel L Jackson fills the screen behind him. Jobs strikes his "Magnum" pose and begins to quote Ezekiel 25:17 ..."The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. (cough--Bill Gates--cough) Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of the darkness. (Meeeee!) For he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers."
...and for those who stay for the credits, a special clip of "The Invicibles" plays for those still in their seat/logged on - featuring Bill Gates as the evil villain, taking a licking from...you guessed it...Samuel L Jackson's "Frozone".
And GOODNIGHT from Paris!
Are you the guy who did polycon for nova?
I think we will see new macs but maybe a name change.
developers-professionals?
While I'm not going to get directly involved in the argument by stating what Apple will do, as some here are doing, There is a point to be made.
Does anyone here think that if Jobs announced at the convention that Apple has new G5 iMacs with flat screens attached to the box with wireless mice and keyboards, that the audience would stand up and go "Boooo... this isn't a pro product, what do you think you are doing, Boooo... Stop insulting us!".
Or maybe instead "Right on! A new product we can write new software for and get more paying customers! More sales! More work! More money! Hail to the chief!"
I think the latter is more likely. I think that even Jobs knows that things are changing, and that he can't have everything his own way. If new machines are ready, he will probably announce them if the channel is getting tight, something people here seem to disagree on.
Market share is continuing to slip, and the comparison with BMW is absurd. Less share equals less developers, which equals less share, etc. Even Jobs must know that by now. Remember, he promised us 10% last year, and now we're below 3%. This has to stop! Getting new products out as fast as possible is imperative.
In the Pc world there are new products every three months or so. Every time a new development or advance comes out you see it reflected in new mobo's the next week. Apple's staid intro's are thought over for too long. there are now over a dozen Express mobo's out there.
Intel's will be there soon, and estimates are that by January, at least 50% of new Pc will have Express. Where are we? I hope Apple says something about this. I bought two G5's for my place, but I won't buy one for myself until Express is in it. I'm far from being the only one either.
Well, not too much longer. I hope my stock holds up.
While I'm not going to get directly involved in the argument by stating what Apple will do, as some here are doing, There is a point to be made.
Does anyone here think that if Jobs announced at the convention that Apple has new G5 iMacs with flat screens attached to the box with wireless mice and keyboards, that the audience would stand up and go "Boooo... this isn't a pro product, what do you think you are doing, Boooo... Stop insulting us!".
Or maybe instead "Right on! A new product we can write new software for and get more paying customers! More sales! More work! More money! Hail to the chief!"
I think the latter is more likely. I think that even Jobs knows that things are changing, and that he can't have everything his own way. If new machines are ready, he will probably announce them if the channel is getting tight, something people here seem to disagree on.
Market share is continuing to slip, and the comparison with BMW is absurd. Less share equals less developers, which equals less share, etc. Even Jobs must know that by now. Remember, he promised us 10% last year, and now we're below 3%. This has to stop! Getting new products out as fast as possible is imperative.
In the Pc world there are new products every three months or so. Every time a new development or advance comes out you see it reflected in new mobo's the next week. Apple's staid intro's are thought over for too long. there are now over a dozen Express mobo's out there.
Intel's will be there soon, and estimates are that by January, at least 50% of new Pc will have Express. Where are we? I hope Apple says something about this. I bought two G5's for my place, but I won't buy one for myself until Express is in it. I'm far from being the only one either.
Well, not too much longer. I hope my stock holds up.
broken_keyboard said:
I completely agree. And at the moment, I don't know why anyone would choose a 15" iMac over a 12" iBook, unless they absolutely needed a larger hard drive or had difficulty seeing the smaller display. The iBook has 512K L2 cache, for crying out loud. The iMac has none at all.
iBook 12" ($1099):
1GHz PowerPC G4; 512K L2 cache @ 1GHz; 12-inch TFT Display; 1024x768 resolution; 256MB DDR266 SDRAM; 30GB Ultra ATA drive; Combo Drive; ATI Mobility Radeon 9200 32MB DDR video memory AirPort Extreme ready
$1099.
iMac 15" ($1299):
15-inch LCD; 1GHz PowerPC G4; NVIDIA GeForce4 MX with 32MB DDR video memory; 256MB DDR333 SDRAM; 80GB Ultra ATA hard drive; Combo Drive; Apple Pro Speakers; AirPort Extreme Ready; Bluetooth Option
The 14" iBook would give the 17" iMac a real run for its money were it not for its low-resolution display. So, yeah, we're already at the point where a mid-range consumer desktop (at least one that has a fixed display and limited expandability) is actually more expensive than a comparable destkop.
melgross said:
very well said mel.... i think your spot on,,,, but buy some of the decisions apple make... it somtimes makes me wonder if they really care about market share.... if they do it is imperitive that they release new flashy imac soon....
Hector said:
You're right; I forgot that the iMac has 256K L2 cache on-chip with that particular G4. I guess it should also be stated that the iMac has 167MHz bus versus the iBook's 133MHz, but that's really splitting hairs. They're pretty much the same speed, and yet the laptop costs less than the desktop. That's an odd reversal.
Where's all this going? and a touch on the current displays.
Let's look at this logistically, we all know Jobs is pissed about the promise he was unable to keep, but it was completely out of his hands. When you go to a whole new architecture you expect things to run more smoothly through development, and that WOULD have been true had it not been for them trying to rework the architecture with 90nm technology right after releasing the new G5 tech. Normally you stick with a new tech and once it's established, THEN try to improve upon it. I am glad however they got the 90nm thing down now, that means they can develope the current G5 technology faster because they're not trying to rework something new into it yet, like 65nm technology.
Because of this we are just now seeing 2.5Ghz machines and no other line has been updated as of yet. Though if they use the same formula they did for the G4's, the Powerbooks SHOULD get the G5 update first, then the iMacs, then iBooks. Because of the 90nm tech they can focus more on G5 Powerbooks and more efficiant cooling for the G5's themselves.
I've been reading some posts on renaming the iMac line......ahem.......NO! from a business standpoint that would be STUPID, the "iMac" name isn't just a product line, it is something that represents Apple's come back from the terrible position they were in back in 1997. They wouldn't drop a household name like that considering all of the other product lines "i"Pod, "i"Tunes, "i"DVD "i"blah blah you get the picture. It's part of what Apple is about now, you don't drop something that arguably saved you from possiblly being out of business by this time.
Anyways my prediction for the next year January Powerbook G5's, then iMac's possibly by June. As for WWDC, Displays (duh), iMac Speed bumps, and Suprises (Maybe a G5 Cube? Sounds rediculous but hey, stranger things have happened)
Oh and about the Displays, I mentioned that the 20" had a higher "contrast ratio" I meant "Brightness" the 17" and 23" now have a 200 while the 20" has a 230 making it a much more vibrant LCD than even the flagship at the moment.
Let's look at this logistically, we all know Jobs is pissed about the promise he was unable to keep, but it was completely out of his hands. When you go to a whole new architecture you expect things to run more smoothly through development, and that WOULD have been true had it not been for them trying to rework the architecture with 90nm technology right after releasing the new G5 tech. Normally you stick with a new tech and once it's established, THEN try to improve upon it. I am glad however they got the 90nm thing down now, that means they can develope the current G5 technology faster because they're not trying to rework something new into it yet, like 65nm technology.
Because of this we are just now seeing 2.5Ghz machines and no other line has been updated as of yet. Though if they use the same formula they did for the G4's, the Powerbooks SHOULD get the G5 update first, then the iMacs, then iBooks. Because of the 90nm tech they can focus more on G5 Powerbooks and more efficiant cooling for the G5's themselves.
I've been reading some posts on renaming the iMac line......ahem.......NO! from a business standpoint that would be STUPID, the "iMac" name isn't just a product line, it is something that represents Apple's come back from the terrible position they were in back in 1997. They wouldn't drop a household name like that considering all of the other product lines "i"Pod, "i"Tunes, "i"DVD "i"blah blah you get the picture. It's part of what Apple is about now, you don't drop something that arguably saved you from possiblly being out of business by this time.
Anyways my prediction for the next year January Powerbook G5's, then iMac's possibly by June. As for WWDC, Displays (duh), iMac Speed bumps, and Suprises (Maybe a G5 Cube? Sounds rediculous but hey, stranger things have happened)
Oh and about the Displays, I mentioned that the 20" had a higher "contrast ratio" I meant "Brightness" the 17" and 23" now have a 200 while the 20" has a 230 making it a much more vibrant LCD than even the flagship at the moment.
nexusfx said:
"...and not to expect a G5 anytime soon in a PowerBook -- certainly not before the end of the year," said Boger."
So let me get this right...we DEFINITELY shouldn't expect a G5 Powerbook by the end of the year, but a few weeks after that it'll magically appear at Macworld?
At this point Apple would be lucky to get a G5 in anything it can - so please, no more posts about Apple's upgrade "formulas" (ie Powerbook MUST come before iMac, etc.) and how it would be complete and utter suicide for Apple to release a G5 iMac before a G5 Powerbook.
iMeowbot said:
This is true to some extent. But for the most part, I don't expect anything new in a G5 iMac that would be relevant to most developers. Certainly to application software developers, a G5 iMac looks and acts just like a G5 Power Mac. There really aren't many (if any?) 3rd party hardware add-ons that would be specific to the iMac - everything is standard, plugged into one of the usual ports. I don't see anything developers might need to know about a new iMac design.
The G5 Power Mac last year was a huge update to the Mac product line. There were a lot of things specific to the G5 chip (and Panther, in its support of the G5) that was very relevant to most developers. It made sense for Apple to make a big deal about that at the Developers Conference. A G5 iMac, whether one exists or not, is irrelevant to developers, and as such should debut at a consumer oriented event.
At least that's my line of reasoning. I'm not in the market for a new machine so I don't care one way or the other (other than it'll be neat to see it when it does eventually happen), but I never thought the iMac would be featured at any WWDC. It doesn't make any sense. But it'll be interesting to see what new things do get unveiled next week...
The news advisories against using Internet Explorer has made me think... could it be possible that Apple might introduce a new version of Safari at WWDC? For Mac and PC?
And what about a new version of Quicktime? Could that be on the cards?
I have no idea what's happening with the iMacs... but I work for an Australian reseller and we're not getting any more shipments of current models, so something must be going down very soon.
Wish it was being broadcast though... has it in fact been confirmed that it's not?
And what about a new version of Quicktime? Could that be on the cards?
I have no idea what's happening with the iMacs... but I work for an Australian reseller and we're not getting any more shipments of current models, so something must be going down very soon.
Wish it was being broadcast though... has it in fact been confirmed that it's not?
bankshot said:
Oh, but it does make a difference. Does a smaller development house bother to do the extra work of tuning for G5 if that seems like too small a segment of the market to care about? When push comes to shove, it might be iffy. If suddenly there's a volume unit with those capabilities, making the extra effort becomes more attractive, and it would be worth Apple's while to make a big splash.
Microsoft did something along those lines years ago when not enough programmers were writing 32-bit stuff for NT. They released a library for Windows 3.x (Win32s) to expand the market size and make the porting work more attractive. It worked out really well for them.
More food for speculation...
The online Apple Store has the following estimated ship dates for iMacs:
15'' 7-10 days
17'' same day
20" same day
Perhaps when the G5 iMac is released the 17'' & 20" G4 models will stick around for a while (at reduced prices). Similar thing happened with the G3 iMacs after the G4's came out.
The online Apple Store has the following estimated ship dates for iMacs:
15'' 7-10 days
17'' same day
20" same day
Perhaps when the G5 iMac is released the 17'' & 20" G4 models will stick around for a while (at reduced prices). Similar thing happened with the G3 iMacs after the G4's came out.
I dont know what the situation in the US is, but here in the UK, our refurb store has been open all week (tues-sat) and it's been full of iMacs, iPods and studio displays.
Less of the iBooks and PBs tho..
Less of the iBooks and PBs tho..
Hi,
Well here is my Opinion.
Before we see a iMac G5, there will be a Powerbook G5.
We might see a Higher update or even a Dual G4 iMac (Why does everybody think it will be G5 what about G4.5?).
But that won't happen.
Unless they upgrade the Powerbook to G5 (won't happen soon) or maybe a Dual CPU Book (Lets make them Hotter), Just don't think there will be better iMac that will play there Power Apps better then the Powerbook.
I also think Apple is going to Milk the Music biz for a bit or even go deeper in to Home Entertainment.
But hey I can be Wrong right!
P.S. I still think Apple is ripping off Mac users that buy G5's Powermacs
512MB for over $2900,-!!! Come on Apple be real!!!
Shaggy
Well here is my Opinion.
Before we see a iMac G5, there will be a Powerbook G5.
We might see a Higher update or even a Dual G4 iMac (Why does everybody think it will be G5 what about G4.5?).
But that won't happen.
Unless they upgrade the Powerbook to G5 (won't happen soon) or maybe a Dual CPU Book (Lets make them Hotter), Just don't think there will be better iMac that will play there Power Apps better then the Powerbook.
I also think Apple is going to Milk the Music biz for a bit or even go deeper in to Home Entertainment.
But hey I can be Wrong right!
P.S. I still think Apple is ripping off Mac users that buy G5's Powermacs
512MB for over $2900,-!!! Come on Apple be real!!!
Shaggy
My opinion is that we will never see a G5, as we know it, in a PowerBook. It's far too hot and draws too much power to put it into a laptop sized enclosure and still have acceptable size and heat and battery life.
TS reports that the new iMac is already in production, just not ready to be released, so the whole "the technical problems of getting a G5 into an iMac is why it isn't going to be released at WWDC!" argument, is moot.
I don't see why people are so blown away and up in arms about the fact that, oh my god, apple may put the G5 into another desktop before it goes into the PowerBook! Why would apple keep from spreading the G5 throughout their line of desktops just because they can't, at the moment, put it into their laptops? thats just obsurd.
TS reports that the new iMac is already in production, just not ready to be released, so the whole "the technical problems of getting a G5 into an iMac is why it isn't going to be released at WWDC!" argument, is moot.
I don't see why people are so blown away and up in arms about the fact that, oh my god, apple may put the G5 into another desktop before it goes into the PowerBook! Why would apple keep from spreading the G5 throughout their line of desktops just because they can't, at the moment, put it into their laptops? thats just obsurd.
All I'm saying.....
The entire line will eventually go G5 like Apple's done in the past with the G3. I based my Powerbook before iMac G5 update based soley on the history of releases, that tends to be the pattern, plus I'm sure that Apple would outfit the Pro-Line with G5's before they put them in the consumer line unless they had no alternative.
Can't wait for the conference, quite frankly the suspense is killin' me, and so is the speculation leading up to it.
Just wish I could afford the Dual 2.5 with the potential 30" display oh that would be sweet.
The entire line will eventually go G5 like Apple's done in the past with the G3. I based my Powerbook before iMac G5 update based soley on the history of releases, that tends to be the pattern, plus I'm sure that Apple would outfit the Pro-Line with G5's before they put them in the consumer line unless they had no alternative.
Can't wait for the conference, quite frankly the suspense is killin' me, and so is the speculation leading up to it.
Just wish I could afford the Dual 2.5 with the potential 30" display oh that would be sweet.
why would apple CARE about what the developers think? wouldn't they just release the imac if it was ready to be released? what's the point? also, do you guys REALLY think that because the powerbook for sure can't have a next generation chip inside till next year, that we are going to have a G4 in an imac for arguably a year? in a year, NOBODY will buy a 1.5ghz imac.
sorry i just think it is so weird to be having these weird rules. the point is to make money. if you have a better option and its ready, you don't stop stocking imacs, and then hold off until next year sometime hoping an entirely different product gets the chip first. i just don't get it. if apple releases a g4 1.5ghz imac, why don't they just do it? why wait and wait and wait? the emac looks amazing compared to it, and so does the ibook as peole have mentioned. is there any evidence that the g4 will scale within the next year past 1.5ghz? maybe there is. but my asking this question is for one reason: if apple updates the imac to a 1.5ghz G4, and they have to wait till apple releases a g5 powerbook, we are looking at this next update as being a LONG update indeed, which would, in my opinion, totally kill the imac.
sorry i just think it is so weird to be having these weird rules. the point is to make money. if you have a better option and its ready, you don't stop stocking imacs, and then hold off until next year sometime hoping an entirely different product gets the chip first. i just don't get it. if apple releases a g4 1.5ghz imac, why don't they just do it? why wait and wait and wait? the emac looks amazing compared to it, and so does the ibook as peole have mentioned. is there any evidence that the g4 will scale within the next year past 1.5ghz? maybe there is. but my asking this question is for one reason: if apple updates the imac to a 1.5ghz G4, and they have to wait till apple releases a g5 powerbook, we are looking at this next update as being a LONG update indeed, which would, in my opinion, totally kill the imac.
I think everyone can agree that we are tired of hearing powerbook before imac. Apple will release a G5 computer when it is ready not due to patterns. According to this article posted here G5 Powerbooks end of 2004.
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1617070,00.asp
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1617070,00.asp
Enough already!
Oh the pain! Please PLEASE stop repeating that nonsensical argument of Apple holding off on G5s for the imac, just because we cant POSSIBLY have a consumer desktop more powerful than a laptop now can we?. That argument has NO logical foundation. So stop it stop it stop it. Ok?
Oh, and stop it! (just to be sure)
By the way, as of today 15" imacs have been put on discount by many resellers here in Portugal. This seems to fit with the theory of a new high-end model about to be introduced, while the current 20" and 17" remain in the product line.
PS: STOP IT!
Shaggy_Alien said:
Oh the pain! Please PLEASE stop repeating that nonsensical argument of Apple holding off on G5s for the imac, just because we cant POSSIBLY have a consumer desktop more powerful than a laptop now can we?. That argument has NO logical foundation. So stop it stop it stop it. Ok?
Oh, and stop it! (just to be sure)
By the way, as of today 15" imacs have been put on discount by many resellers here in Portugal. This seems to fit with the theory of a new high-end model about to be introduced, while the current 20" and 17" remain in the product line.
PS: STOP IT!
nexusfx said:
i don't really see the whole thing with "consumer lineup vs. pro-line" does apple really think that it is only photoshop users who purchase powermodels, and webserfers who buy i/e lineup. i am 17, do not do any photoshop, only imovie video editing, lots of web reading, email, chat, word etc. and a tiny bit of gaming, yet i had (before canceling and gettting at 15 inch AL|PB when they came out) ordered a dual 2ghz radeon 9800 1 gig of ram G5. just because we do less doesn't mean we deserve less or want less power. also before getting the powerbook i never did video editing or anything.
my point is, if the "consumer" has money they'll go power line up. if the "pro user" doesn't have money, he'll be going imac/emac. there's no "berlin wall" seperating us into two hords of people.
point being: apple shouldn't bother waitng on the pb to put the g5 in the imac. if it improves sales, why not.\
aethier
Not so consumer any more
Many are forgetting that the iMac is not the low-end all in one consumer system that it originally was. First, the eMac is now a better fit for that segment of the market. Second, look at the price. The iMac DV Special Edition I bought in November of 1999 was the high end consumer machine at $1399. That's $800 less than the 20" iMac today. The only thing consumer about the iMac line right now is the performance. Yet now that the G5's speed has created some breathing room in the line-up, the iMac can better fill the roll of high-end consumer/low-end professional machine. Think of it as the original role the G4 Cube was supposed to play. If you look at it that way, it makes sense to put a G5 in an iMac before a powerbook.
Or consider this. Was the G4 put into a powerbook first simply because the powerbook is for professionals?? No way. First, we were lucky that the G4 ran cool enough to be put in a notebook. Second, the G3 was clocking just as fast in the iMac as the G4 was when first intoduced in the powerbook. There just was not enough megahertz in the G4 to spread around between the "i" line and the "power" line. So the iMac remained a G3 because there really was no other way to differentiate between the model lines. Third, the original design for the G4 iMac was scrapped when Jobs saw the "magic sunflower" and the design team had to start from scratch. This delayed the new iMac and kept it with old design a bit longer that originally planned. I'm starting to ramble, but if I've prevented just one "The iMac CAN'T have a G5 before the Powerbook post!" it was worth it.
Many are forgetting that the iMac is not the low-end all in one consumer system that it originally was. First, the eMac is now a better fit for that segment of the market. Second, look at the price. The iMac DV Special Edition I bought in November of 1999 was the high end consumer machine at $1399. That's $800 less than the 20" iMac today. The only thing consumer about the iMac line right now is the performance. Yet now that the G5's speed has created some breathing room in the line-up, the iMac can better fill the roll of high-end consumer/low-end professional machine. Think of it as the original role the G4 Cube was supposed to play. If you look at it that way, it makes sense to put a G5 in an iMac before a powerbook.
Or consider this. Was the G4 put into a powerbook first simply because the powerbook is for professionals?? No way. First, we were lucky that the G4 ran cool enough to be put in a notebook. Second, the G3 was clocking just as fast in the iMac as the G4 was when first intoduced in the powerbook. There just was not enough megahertz in the G4 to spread around between the "i" line and the "power" line. So the iMac remained a G3 because there really was no other way to differentiate between the model lines. Third, the original design for the G4 iMac was scrapped when Jobs saw the "magic sunflower" and the design team had to start from scratch. This delayed the new iMac and kept it with old design a bit longer that originally planned. I'm starting to ramble, but if I've prevented just one "The iMac CAN'T have a G5 before the Powerbook post!" it was worth it.
aethier said:
That garbage goes back to the late 1990s when Apple was in terrible condition and took some drastic measures to get a messy product line under control. The lineup was chopped down to four basic models, PowerMac, iMac, PowerBook and iBook. People seem to have got the impression that bailout mode would last forever, unalterably, but that was never the case.
As soon as the four boxes were filled in, the Cube appeared (and went away), then came xServe a bit later. Oh yeah, and then that pesky eMac thingy showed up. Meanwhile, the product mix stretched into all sorts of other directions with networking equipment, storage arrays, the music stuff, iSight, several major software acquisitions and so on.
Heck, the TV ad for the G5 tower depicted the thing in a home setting, and most of the recent product placements in office settings that I've noticed have been PowerBooks or iMacs (with the plain iBook getting little exposure at all).
So, um, what was my point? Oh yeah, that the four-part matrix is ancient history, may it rest in peace.