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WWDC: Safari For Windows

dswoodley said:
Firefox better? Certainly not for everyone. Seriously do you think that 5% of web users are morons or something? Firefox ad ons are mostly crapware. Safari's RSS reader is infinitely better. Interface and commands are more mac-like (obviously) which means less commands to remember. It is faster in most installations I've seen. For that 5% it's obviously a good choice for them.
Click to expand...

I don't care about the majority of the 'toys' that get passed off as addons. The only two addons I *cannot* live without (ignoring all the development ones) are:
  • Adblock - which gives me back my browser from those damn marketing Muppets who design moving adverts
  • Mouse Gestures - click on a link, find I want to go back, so click-wipe to left and back I go. No hunting for the back button or pressing backspace.

For development there's a ton of addons which makes Firefox THE BEST BROWSER FOR WEB DEVELOPMENT BAR NONE.
  • Web Developer Toolbar - where would we be without it?
  • Tamper Data - examine headers and change postback parameters
  • FireBug - for debugging JavaScript and so much more
  • ColorZilla - simple colour dropper to determine the colour of something under the cursor
  • MeasureIt - a simple measuring tool for widths and heights
  • HTML Tidy - check your code for bugs

I could go on. Honestly, anyone who does serious web development cannot not afford to not use Firefox.
 
Glenny2lappies said:
If nobody can use these (CSS 3 features) then why bother adding them to your web pages?
Click to expand...

Errrr... Safari users can.

I was merely pointing out that Safari isn't as backward as you make it, it does support some things that no other browsers do right now.
 
riddick021 said:
I understand why they are doing this. Websites generally cater to the browser who has the most users before getting to lesser used browsers. Safari has suffered from this. Google documents didn't work with safari for a long time and now it finally does. I think support will only increase with more market share and to get more market share you have to go after windows users.

After using Safari 3.0 I think it better handles RAM than Safari 2.0. With 2.0 as long as safari was open its RAM usage would increase the longer it stayed open. This problem seems to be fixed and it hovers around 110MB if its still running with no windows open. This seems to be a big improvement. Can anyone else confirm this?
Click to expand...

I'd argue that Safari 3 is finally getting around to fixing some of the bugs in Safari 2 that made most developers ignore it (including many Mac-based web developers).

I'm astounded that anyone would stick with Safari as its browsing experience is so bad. There's just so many sites that don't work with Safari that it reflects badly on the Safari user's lack of skills or discretion - and given that 'creatives' should be sensitive to layout problems it never ceases to amaze me that they put up with it!
 
elppa said:
Errrr... Safari users can.

I was merely pointing out that Safari isn't as backward as you make it, it does support some things that no other browsers do right now.
Click to expand...

I get your point. It's definitely not backward and does have some neat features. Trouble is it's such a small minority interest browser that it's barely worth developing for - I guess with the exception of installing help documentation on a Mac:)

My point is that Apple are *really* slow to fix problems on their browser which means that the vast majority of web developers just give up.

I'm sure the Safari developers are well aware of the can of worms Steve's opened up here. Hey, maybe that's why he's released it on Windows; to get the developers to fix it!
 
Better on XP than OS X!

Installed fast and works great on XP. Installed slowly and has been buggy on my home computer. Some sites refuse to load at all (www.visitsouthglenn.com opens fine in Firefox today as well as with my old Safari, but just get a grey screen with Safari 3).

Seems fast on XP, not particularly different on OS X.

Oh well, I guess that's why they call it beta.
 
Aargh.

How do I get Safari 2 back?

Safari 3 beta is nice, but: crashes a bit too frequently for comfort (no kidding, it's a beta); and, more significantly, text rendering in Geneva has gone really, really horrid. I can barely bear to look at my webmail now.

I wasn't really expecting it to install a beta over a stable version and delete the original. Guess I should have checked. :(
 
El Capitano said:
Aargh.

How do I get Safari 2 back?

Safari 3 beta is nice, but: crashes a bit too frequently for comfort (no kidding, it's a beta); and, more significantly, text rendering in Geneva has gone really, really horrid. I can barely bear to look at my webmail now.

I wasn't really expecting it to install a beta over a stable version and delete the original. Guess I should have checked. :(
Click to expand...

Run the uninstaller that is inside the disk image for safari 3 beta.
 
rolfdenver said:
Installed fast and works great on XP. Installed slowly and has been buggy on my home computer. Some sites refuse to load at all (www.visitsouthglenn.com opens fine in Firefox today as well as with my old Safari, but just get a grey screen with Safari 3).

Seems fast on XP, not particularly different on OS X.

Oh well, I guess that's why they call it beta.
Click to expand...

Get serious. Look at the address provided for Safari 3 and the address provides for Camino, for example. Can you say browser redirect. And if that wasn't sufficient enough, look at the html source--the bloody body content itself is commented out.
 
elppa said:
Errrr... Safari users can.

I was merely pointing out that Safari isn't as backward as you make it, it does support some things that no other browsers do right now.
Click to expand...

Best CSS support is from opera, pass acid2 does not mean it support CSS3 much better than firefox.

again, as an app, page render sure is an important thing, which safari apparently not doing well , at least for now, but also, the application is horrible, resource hog, does apple really think this kind of bloatware can survive?
Look I am not trying to pick a fight. I am stating facts. There are lots of reasons why Safari users deliberately use Safari over other options.
Click to expand...
your word WILL be tested since now safari is out in the wild of windows, lets see how many of them will use it by option, LOL,
and as a welcome for safari to windows:
http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/technol..._writers_delighted_by_safari_for_windows.html
0-day exploit security problem in 2 hours after release, so much for apple's security capability, apple think windows is easy, lets wait and see.
Dude, as beta software it's meant to be buggy...if not it wouldn't be Beta it would be final release, right?
And when he says it's the best browser, well, that's what he believes (Steve) and wants other people to believe, but you don't actually have to believe him.
Click to expand...
u don't understand the difference between beta and final unstable apps. goto wikipedia check KHTML, its just not ready, even if u put a final version out, its core is not ready, and apple can do nothing about its core. Not to mention apple's way of thinking what windows user should do is killing the app.
 
icec0ld said:
safari 3 beta still doesn't deal with links in gmail properly... can't open them in a damn tab... I DONT WANT TO OPEN IT IN A NEW WINDOW APPLE!
Click to expand...


Speak of the devil, holy eff does Gmail load fast in 3.0! Sure the UI could look better, but damn this app kicks ass...even in beta form!
 
It works amazingly well on Vista. There was no need to reboot after the installation. The first run was quite slow, but after reopening the application, it speeds along faster than most things I've seen.
 
Safari 3.No

Here's how a typical Mac user will try Safari 3:

Install
Restart
Open
Stall on open
Mess up the settings off something (my dock, using transparent dock)
Stall to open a web page
Uninstall
Load Safari 2
Open
Go on Mac Rumors and write about Safari 3 not being ready yet
Go back to work

Cheers.
 
Not sure if anyone noticed.

I didn't read through the 400 some replies, but Safari 3 works fine for me. The other thing I noticed is that it went through all my book marks, found certain websites that had AIM bots attached to them, and automatically added them to my iChat.

Now I have this Prof Gilzot (??), WSJ (Wall street), ShareThisDotCom (Whatever that is), Spleak (??), Moviefone, and that's it.
 
rolfdenver said:
I got a headache trying to parse that triple negative. Upshot is that serious developers shouldn't use Firefox - I think. :D
Click to expand...

You are correct. (most) Serious (should say "Professional") web developers attempt to make sites that work with all the popular browsers, with the default usually being IE, not Firefox (sigh).

_bnkr612 said:
Here's how a typical Mac user will try Safari 3:

Install
Restart
Open
Stall on open
Mess up the settings off something (my dock, using transparent dock)
Stall to open a web page
Uninstall
Load Safari 2
Open
Go on Mac Rumors and write about Safari 3 not being ready yet
Go back to work

Cheers.
Click to expand...


Works fine on my systems so far.

clevin said:
your word WILL be tested since now safari is out in the wild of windows, lets see how many of them will use it by option, LOL,
and as a welcome for safari to windows:
http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/technolo...r_windows.html
0-day exploit security problem in 2 hours after release, so much for apple's security capability, apple think windows is easy, lets wait and
Click to expand...

I seem to remember exploits for IE7 being found immediatly after it's release too. Also, your last comment sounds a bit ignorant, this isn't even close to Apple's first foray into writing software for Windows. Perhaps you were talking about something else though.
 
Safari 3 has a lot of problems on non-English Windows systems. I think they did not perform a lot of tests before releasing it into the wild. To me, it feels more like an alpha version... You can read about my experiences in my blog. Contrary to what I wrote there, I've had another really nasty crash right now when trying to open the "Submit bug report" window.
 
_bnkr612 said:
Here's how a typical Mac user will try Safari 3:

Install
Restart
Open
Stall on open
Mess up the settings off something (my dock, using transparent dock)
Stall to open a web page
Uninstall
Load Safari 2
Open
Go on Mac Rumors and write about Safari 3 not being ready yet
Go back to work
Click to expand...

Well, I hadn't done the MacRumors part of it yet, and I had nothing "funky" running before (with the possible exception of the Tidy thingie), but otherwise you've nailed it for me. And I'm in the USA, so it's not a non-US users problem. However, my only complaint with the Windows version, OTOH, is a color scheme that's too dark a gray for the tabs' readability; otherwise, it's not bad at all.
 
_bnkr612 said:
Here's how a typical Mac user will try Safari 3:

Install
Restart
Open
Stall on open
Mess up the settings off something (my dock, using transparent dock)
Stall to open a web page
Uninstall
Load Safari 2
Open
Go on Mac Rumors and write about Safari 3 not being ready yet
Go back to work

Cheers.
Click to expand...

Guess i'm not typical then

Install
Force Quit installer so don't have to restart
Use Safari, only one problem but can work around it.
 
works as well or better on my PPC machine. very fast-roughly 60% of the time FF requires to load my gmail, and it is improved in some areas. rich text now works in gmail :)

The two features I would like to see work (gmail chat and Yahoo Mails new interface) aren't there...but is this a result of capability or browser blocking?

The stock performance graphs work in google (also in FF), which will NOT work in IE7...go figure.
 
Glenny2lappies said:
Oops!

I'll re-word it: All serious web developers will use Firefox as their main development tool.
Click to expand...

Wrong. I'm a serious/professional web developer. I use Safari.

And then Firefox. Which usually (but not always) works identically to Safari.

And then, finally, IE (during which I hold my head and repeat "Woe is me" over and over.)


As for the web development tools: the only tool I tend to use is Webkit's Inspect Element tool, and the Javascript console for finding where bugs happen in javascript.


(Then again, I've always been weird, so I suppose if you changed it to "most serious web developers" might be correct. And, by not using Firefox, I may not know what I am missing.)
 
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