Xbox Series X (coming 10 Nov 2020)

[Macalicious2011]

Xbox series is a great device for people to catch up on last decade of games in a better form than what was before. I can clearly see where xbox excels (rdr1 only 4k in xbox but not on PS, xbox exclusive old titles).

This is good in theory. In practice, the gameplay catalogue is cluttered with too many game. This make it difficult to find great titles.

Nintendo games are more expensive. However you can almost blindly buy any Mario or Zelda game and it will put a smile on your face. Steam has lots of fab games including cute and fun indie or kawaii games. Most of these are not available on the Xbox store.

This is why handhelds by Lenovo with a steam button could be best of both world. Xbox and steam stores on the same device but with dedicated buttons for each launcher.

 

[Zest28]

Xbox series is a great device for people to catch up on last decade of games in a better form than what was before. I can clearly see where xbox excels (rdr1 only 4k in xbox but not on PS, xbox exclusive old titles).

But besides that, nintendos underpowered platform shows that the games sell the system (lm3 and odyssey graphics are top notch for how underpowered the device is, marion wonder game mechanics).

Unfortunately xbox was not able to push out any meaningful exclusives as of the past, thus becoming a cloud platform and 3rd party seller is probably their faith. MS has too much money to actually control how it spends it and use it efficiently. The same amount of waste would have bankrupt sony and nintendo.

The thing is, Microsoft will get sued to hell if they push for exclusive titles because “Microsoft is evil!!!!”. It’s also why Microsoft decided to also put all the Blizzard Entertainment games on Steam to avoid getting lawsuits of being a monopolist.

Sony is in an extremely lucky position of being the market leader, yet the government somehow thinks Microsoft is the “monopolist”.

 

[Macalicious2011]

This video covers what I've previously mentioned that xbox will likely become: A line of xbox branded PCs that are bundled with a controller, gamepass trial and that boot with a controller friendly skin of windows.

 

[diamond.g]

This video covers what I've previously mentioned that xbox will likely become: A line of xbox branded PCs that are bundled with a controller, gamepass trial and that boot with a controller friendly skin of windows.

So xbox would just be another PC where games are not optimized for the hardware because vendors could come out with different hardware even if MS has a baseline. And the expectation is that prices for this more powerful hardware would be higher than competition bringing pricing down?

For a handheld, this could maybe work since it would just be running Windows. The only "cool" thing I could think of would be getting Xbox store games to install on SteamOS (which would imply de-coupling the store from Windows).

I dunno maybe I am being too pessimistic. The last time we had a "console" where other vendors could make the hardware was when Atari was a hardware maker and we saw how that turned out.

 

[Macalicious2011]

So xbox would just be another PC where games are not optimized for the hardware because vendors could come out with different hardware even if MS has a baseline. And the expectation is that prices for this more powerful hardware would be higher than competition bringing pricing down?

For a handheld, this could maybe work since it would just be running Windows. The only "cool" thing I could think of would be getting Xbox store games to install on SteamOS (which would imply de-coupling the store from Windows).

I dunno maybe I am being too pessimistic. The last time we had a "console" where other vendors could make the hardware was when Atari was a hardware maker and we saw how that turned out.

The annoyance with PC is managing launchers + Nvidia app. To reduce friction, MS would need to allow third party stores to exist inside the Xbox app and copy Nvidia's optimised setting feature so that when users launch a game, it's already been optimised to their hardware at a console standard.

 

[diamond.g]

The annoyance with PC is managing launchers + Nvidia app. To reduce friction, MS would need to allow third party stores to exist inside the Xbox app and copy Nvidia's optimised setting feature so that when users launch a game, it's already been optimised to their hardware at a console standard.

PC's problem is probably going to be drivers. New PC games require driver updates because developers on PC don't optimize games for specific hardware (can't cause too diverse) and performance suffers.

Steam Deck masks this with proton updates (and precompiled shaders).

 

[mattspace]

Or, Microsoft could just keep selling the Xbox as they are, as they have always been; as a loss-leader which creates a performance / price floor to keep PC vendors in line on price & performance, while providing a fixed target for developers to multiply the value of their Windows game development investment, and vice-versa.

 

[Imhotep397]

xbox will likely become: A line of xbox branded PCs

Even though Colt Eastwood is a grifter I can see this as a plausible next step. I doubt it improves Xbox's hardware future since it creates problems for development/compatibility with very likely multiple disparate configs like the X/S strategy did. The existing catalogue of PC games might be enticing for prospective PC users, but the continued race to the bottom for a console-ish PC is probably not going lure many gamers from just getting a gaming PC.

Basically another Steambox scenario without a very streamlined OS. Even worse, Playstation is already probably on the cusp of halting PC porting of single player games due mediocre sales. MS showing up with a console-ish Windowsbox would sure have them kill their PC porting initiative which would kill any oppurtununity to grab Playstation Players, which would be the main reason for branching out of a console paradigm to begin with.

 

[Richdmoore]

My initial reaction to making the next Xbox a pc is confusion.

I have the means to buy a gaming pc, but I chose an Xbox console instead. I like the fact I don't need to worry about drivers, ram specs, a massive amount of graphic choices in game option menus, and all the rest of the stuff that just gets in the way of playing a video game.

I pair the Xbox with a Mac mini because there is still not the games I want available natively for macOS.

I have explored a little bit of gaming on a Mac, but it has most of the same problems as a pc, you need to choose a pro or max M chip, the option menus are full of settings like fsaa and v-sync that requires a google search of the term to even know what they are, and then multiple experiments in settings just to see how the help or hinder the overall game performance.

I also sometimes have to use crossover or other translation layers for non-Mac games, which is a mess all on it’s own.

Maybe Microsoft can come up with a way to simplify pc gaming to the level of a console, but I doubt it. If the steam console rumors are true (and I think they are) it will be a good test case to see if valve can produce a console (steam os) with multiple hardware levels, but not get bogged down in compatibility and other pc problems. (If valve can’t get it to work, there is no chance for Microsoft to get their version to work.)

I really do hope I have to eat crow in a few years, and the next Xbox actually delivers a pc with the ease of use of a console. I am just not sure how feasible it is.

 

[Macalicious2011]

My initial reaction to making the next Xbox a pc is confusion.

I have the means to buy a gaming pc, but I chose an Xbox console instead. I like the fact I don't need to worry about drivers, ram specs, a massive amount of graphic choices in game option menus, and all the rest of the stuff that just gets in the way of playing a video game.

I pair the Xbox with a Mac mini because there is still not the games I want available natively for macOS.

I have explored a little bit of gaming on a Mac, but it has most of the same problems as a pc, you need to choose a pro or max M chip, the option menus are full of settings like fsaa and v-sync that requires a google search of the term to even know what they are, and then multiple experiments in settings just to see how the help or hinder the overall game performance.

I also sometimes have to use crossover or other translation layers for non-Mac games, which is a mess all on it’s own.

Maybe Microsoft can come up with a way to simplify pc gaming to the level of a console, but I doubt it. If the steam console rumors are true (and I think they are) it will be a good test case to see if valve can produce a console (steam os) with multiple hardware levels, but not get bogged down in compatibility and other pc problems. (If valve can’t get it to work, there is no chance for Microsoft to get their version to work.)

I really do hope I have to eat crow in a few years, and the next Xbox actually delivers a pc with the ease of use of a console. I am just not sure how feasible it is.

A console is godsend for convinience.

PC gaming is increasingly complex and alienating even to those who are geeky. Choice anxiety is real. In the past you only had to look at clock speeds when choosing cpu and gpu. Today you have to consider vram, upscaling, frame gen, frame rate, quality setting, ray tracing and path tracing.

It's easier if consumers have two versions of a console to choose between rather than a range of different vendors.

 

[diamond.g]

A console is godsend for convinience.

PC gaming is increasingly complex and alienating even to those who are geeky. Choice anxiety is real. In the past you only had to look at clock speeds when choosing cpu and gpu. Today you have to consider vram, upscaling, frame gen, frame rate, quality setting, ray tracing and path tracing.

It's easier if consumers have two versions of a console to choose between rather than a range of different vendors.

Only if the choices are with disc drive and without disc drive.

 

[Richdmoore]

A console is godsend for convinience.

PC gaming is increasingly complex and alienating even to those who are geeky. Choice anxiety is real. In the past you only had to look at clock speeds when choosing cpu and gpu. Today you have to consider vram, upscaling, frame gen, frame rate, quality setting, ray tracing and path tracing.

It's easier if consumers have two versions of a console to choose between rather than a range of different vendors.

It's basically the apple strategy. Good (Series S) or Best (Series X). It's slightly more complicated on the best (Series X) console, disc drive or no disc drive, and a storage bump with drive on a special edition console.

 

[Imhotep397]

Microsoft will get sued to hell if they push for exclusive titles because “Microsoft is evil!!!!”

This is dishonest, it's intended to deliberately misinform people that don't know the whole story. The only thing I can compare to Microsoft acquiring multiple whole ass game publishers and then making claims against other companies (like Apple) for potentially monopolist behavior is if say Toyota were were to successfully acquire a 3rd of all gas stations in the US and then complain about Honda being evil and posturing to acquire a single electric car charging station.

Sony is in an extremely lucky position of being the market leader, yet the government somehow thinks Microsoft is the “monopolist”.

Nonsense...Sony just builds compelling games and libraries of third party games....no luck involved.

After MS had the nerve to try to acquire the entire game publishing industry, "monopolist" is the nicest label they could receive. The only reason they don't get the scarlett letter from every gamer and games media person is because most of the IP they acquired are at best not system sellers at worst on the downward spiral.

 

[mattspace]

Having a monopoly is not illegal.
Obtaining a monopoly is not illegal.
Using a monopoly to defend a monopoly is illegal.
Using a monopoly in one industry, to establish a monopoly in another industry is illegal.

Microsoft were busted for using their monopoly on PC operating systems, to establish and defend a monopoly in Web Browsers and Web Servers - IE / IIS.

Apple are being busted for using their monopoly on distributing applications on iOS, to establish or defend a monopoly on payment services for applications on iOS.

None of Microsoft's actions in buying studios have been used to deny games availability to other platforms in favour of Xbox (even Halo, originally started as a Mac-only game came to the Mac eventually), they haven't used Windows to prevent Sony from establishing cross-play with PC / Playstation titles, they haven't retaliated against studios who make PC / Playstation only titles.

There's no monopoly case to be made against them in Gaming.

 

[Macalicious2011]

It's basically the apple strategy. Good (Series S) or Best (Series X). It's slightly more complicated on the best (Series X) console, disc drive or no disc drive, and a storage bump with drive on a special edition console.

Handheld PCs are tempting but comparing them is not easy.

Xbox has a new "VP of next-gen" and they'll be at CES alongside Lenovo ... but what could it mean for Xbox's future?

Lenovo's gaming handheld presentation is being held at CES 2025 on January 7, and Xbox's Jason Ronald will be in attendance.

www.windowscentral.com

 

[Imhotep397]

None of Microsoft's actions in buying studios have been used to deny games availability to other platforms

Microsoft already has a long history of violating anti-trust laws. Having them acquire large swaths of any industry and hoping they don't eventually violate anti-trust laws is like putting a giant chocolate cake in front of a sugar addict and expecting them to just sit and watch it.

 

[mattspace]

Microsoft already has a long history of violating anti-trust laws. Having them acquire large swaths of any industry and hoping they don't eventually violate anti-trust laws is like putting a giant chocolate cake in front of a sugar addict and expecting them to just sit and watch it.

Like Apple, Microsoft is a convicted antitrust violator. Which is why antitrust authorities world-wide have been watching so closely, and there were so many conditions placed on the Activision purchase. But that doesn't mean what they are doing currently in gaming is inherently anticompetitive.

 

[Macalicious2011]

Microsoft already has a long history of violating anti-trust laws. Having them acquire large swaths of any industry and hoping they don't eventually violate anti-trust laws is like putting a giant chocolate cake in front of a sugar addict and expecting them to just sit and watch it.

Their excuse is always: "We are tiny. A distant 3rd in gaming after Nintendo and Sony. In entertainment, we are even tinier. Please let us spend $68b."

 

[Pezimak]

This Xbox future is not for me. I'd rather just build a proper PC myself. Or stick with PlayStation, Nintendo and Steam Deck. And play all the Xbox games anyway.

 

[Pezimak]

Like Apple, Microsoft is a convicted antitrust violator. Which is why antitrust authorities world-wide have been watching so closely, and there were so many conditions placed on the Activision purchase. But that doesn't mean what they are doing currently in gaming is inherently anticompetitive.

Yet… you wait for those deals to expire they have set with Sony and Nintendo. They do now own the biggest studios in gaming. And the best selling game year in year out. Don’t forget they own Zenimax and all its studios as well as Acrivision / King and Blizzard. MS didn’t spend 80 billion in acquisitions to play nice.

 

[Pezimak]

This video covers what I've previously mentioned that xbox will likely become: A line of xbox branded PCs that are bundled with a controller, gamepass trial and that boot with a controller friendly skin of windows.

The issue I have is the industry believing that inflated production costs are the problem, they need that return on investment. Well I also think it’s the dull products they produce and the heavy inclusion of DEI in come games. Look at Ubisoft, it set a Assassins Creed (a game series in which Ubisoft prides itself on the historical accuracy of), game in Japanese ancient times and they selected a black gay man as the main samurai character, and even the Japanese government has stated its offensive and totally inaccurate for the historical figure they are portraying in the story, look at PS5’s best selling game, a 3D platformer with a little robot figure and no DEI. Look at what Nintendo games are consistently in the top ten selling games.

But I digress as that is only one problem, stories can be just as bad too, I hated TLOU2, being forced to play you know who after she did you know what only for said person to be forgiven at the end, after the murderous blood fuelled vengeance trip Elly took to get to the ending, GTFO with that crap Druckmann.

Anyway I’ve been playing Indiana Jones on my Mac using Game Pass cloud streaming, it works great and it’s a fantastic game, and it proves to Sony you do NOT need yet another over the shoulder third person viewpoint to make a story driven action adventure game! MS does have some good games it could make Game Pass exclusive for a bit, but I’m not sure turning consoles into a PC market is a solution, it’ll just confuse consumers I think.

 

[mattspace]

Yet… you wait for those deals to expire they have set with Sony and Nintendo. They do now own the biggest studios in gaming. And the best selling game year in year out. Don’t forget they own Zenimax and all its studios as well as Acrivision / King and Blizzard. MS didn’t spend 80 billion in acquisitions to play nice.

And then the authorities in jurisdictions world-wide will act, if at that time MS is using its market strength illegally.

 

[diamond.g]

And then the authorities in jurisdictions world-wide will act, if at that time MS is using its market strength illegally.

I am really curious to see if Sony actually gives MS a PS6 dev kit prior to the console release basically giving their direct competitor access to system knowledge they otherwise wouldn't have.

I also wonder if Sony could be forced to give them one.

MS owning all those studios would do them no good if MS has no where to put the games. So I am not sure what market strength they could use illegally in this instance.

 

[salamanderjuice]

I am really curious to see if Sony actually gives MS a PS6 dev kit prior to the console release basically giving their direct competitor access to system knowledge they otherwise wouldn't have.

I also wonder if Sony could be forced to give them one.

MS owning all those studios would do them no good if MS has no where to put the games. So I am not sure what market strength they could use illegally in this instance.

Didn't they already do that with the PS5 Pro?

 

[diamond.g]

Didn't they already do that with the PS5 Pro?

Good question.