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This is a pity, might have already been posted but one of my preferred youtube tech channels, zollotech just posted a review of the new MacBook Pro.


This fellow is one of the most objective tech reviewers, uses and reviews Apple but also Android, MS products and a few others. Praises where due and criticizes where due.

His review here is quite fair, praising certain aspects of the design but also exposing a huge flaw.

Suffice it to say if I were looking for a MacBook I wouldn't get this one, even with the improved keyboard.
 
I’m all for choice and I commend Apple for offering top of the line processors, however, it’s baffling that it was still implemented knowing that other manufacturers were having problems with thermal management. It feels like an afterthought to be honest.
 
It isn't the software's job. The fact that FCP might have slapped a bandaid on doesn't obviate Apple from their responsibility in this clusterf**k.

Disagreed. It is the software developer's job to find out their market and tune their apps appropriately.

Also, XPS 15 with i9 chip has the same issue. Same goes for the Alienware 15 R4 (even when running a CPU only test and not using the giant GPU, the thermals in that huge laptop doesn't prevent the CPU from throttling)
 
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I'm getting similar results as reddit post just by disabling Turbo Boost with Turbo Boost Switcher..., that's insane..., better performance with turbo boost disabled than enabled. Clearly Apple didn't test the machine properly.
 
Disagreed. It is the software developer's job to find out their market and tune their apps appropriately.

Nope. It is the hardware vendor's job to create a machine that actually works.

Also, XPS 15 with i9 chip has the same issue. Same goes for the Alienware 15 R4 (even when running a CPU only test and not using the giant GPU, the thermals in that huge laptop doesn't prevent the CPU from throttling)

Certainly not nearly to the extent as is being seen with the MBP.
 
I'm getting similar results as reddit post just by disabling Turbo Boost with Turbo Boost Switcher..., that's insane..., better performance with turbo boost disabled than enabled. Clearly Apple didn't test the machine properly.

I wonder if that would work on all the cpus and 2016/2017 models....
 
Disagreed. It is the software developer's job to find out their market and tune their apps appropriately.

Also, XPS 15 with i9 chip has the same issue. Same goes for the Alienware 15 R4 (even when running a CPU only test and not using the giant GPU, the thermals in that huge laptop doesn't prevent the CPU from throttling)

Look at it this way... The gas your car uses drives the design of the car? So Texaco is better than Gulf for your Ford? Sorry guy it doesn't quite work that way. While crappy gas can play havoc of your cars fuel tank & engine it could have come from any gas station.

So what does that have to do with Hardware vs Software?

It's basically the same! Your Mac is like your car and the software is like the gas. Yes, poor software will mess you up but thats not happening here! There are too many people running different software seeing this failure. So everyone is running crappy software NOPE!

A firmware fix is all thats needed - NOPE! Not really, it can mask some of the issue by altering the fans engagement slop (running it sooner or higher RPM). But just like someone bailing out a sinking boat if the water is coming in faster than you are getting it out, you're with the fishes! The slope change only starts the bailing a bit sooner thats it!

Messing with the voltage can buy some improvement but again you need to have cherrypicked the best CPU's so you don't encounter a crash (frozen process). Apple didn't do that did they ;-}

Change the thermal paste to something better - Not really an option here as you would void your Apple warranty!

That leaves us with only one thing left! Increase the heatsink mass (I would double it) and I would also triple the fin surfaces and add additional heat pipes. The air flow its self will need to be improved as well.

Thats the rub theres no room to do this in this system frame Apple (and the other thin systems) failed to address the needed cooling of this chip.
[doublepost=1532044916][/doublepost]
I’m all for choice and I commend Apple for offering top of the line processors, however, it’s baffling that it was still implemented knowing that other manufacturers were having problems with thermal management. It feels like an afterthought to be honest.

The person(s) holding the trigger for shipping the system was not paying attention to what was happening. And/or the engineering group was not forceful enough to stop it if they had misgivings! There was time (granted very little) but they could have stopped it. Now they need to put the product on hold, get the systems back that were shipped and very quickly redesign the upper case with the needed thickness to add the needed heatsink subsystem and the needed venting and fans. If they work real hard breaking the task down into different groups it could be spun in about 4 to 6 months of very hard work. Then there is the safety and emissions testing that would need to be done with the new design and putting it into production. One big mess!!

The last part is recovering the parts from the older systems! Sadly, they can't sell these as new, they will need a fire sale or lease them out.

If they trash them I would have a big problem with that, as we are talking millions of dollars of systems going into a shredder! Thats not ecology minded!
 
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This is a pity, might have already been posted but one of my preferred youtube tech channels, zollotech just posted a review of the new MacBook Pro.


This fellow is one of the most objective tech reviewers, uses and reviews Apple but also Android, MS products and a few others. Praises where due and criticizes where due.

His review here is quite fair, praising certain aspects of the design but also exposing a huge flaw.

Suffice it to say if I were looking for a MacBook I wouldn't get this one, even with the improved keyboard.
I like that guys video. Very honest and not bashing. Apple does need to get over this obsession with thinness BS. Who wants to start a petition LOL?
 
I have purchased an i9, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD MacBook Pro, but it's only arriving on Monday.

Having read some of the issues with the benchmarks etc. I'm honestly not that surprised - it's kind of expected with these types of tests and Apple computers. It's kinda obvious that laptops (MacBooks in particular) are going to throttle when put through these kinds of tests and performance is going to drop. I saw that video of the guy who did comparisons in FCPX between last year's model, 2018 and the 18 core iMac Pro, and performance looked great overall.

Honestly, it may not hit the turbo boost speeds, but it's still six cores vs 4 and the i9 still looks to beat the i7 in most circumstances, and so I'm quite happy with my purchase still. I know it's a lot of money, but this is for work on the move. When I'm at home, I'm editing on the 10 core iMac Pro. When I'm away, I need the best that Apple has to offer, and that, at this moment in time, is the 2018 i9.

Apple are currently struggling in the MacBook market, but they're hitting it out of the park with the iMac Pro... the next re-design for the MacBook Pro should get it right. I have faith that Apple are learning from their mistakes, but R&D takes time, and they may be waiting for their own CPUs to use before the re-design.

Either way, it's going to be a lot better than my 17" MacBook Pro from early 2011, which was what I was using until the iMac Pros came out.
 
All Apple will probably do is release a firmware update that removes turbo boost
[doublepost=1532037733][/doublepost]

You'll get your 'nerfed chips' in a firmware update, They'll probably lower base speeds to 2.2 ghz and remove turbo boost and call it a day. In the end these chips will barely be faster then last gen

Maybe they'll call it 'courage'?
 
Do any of you guys really think the laptop getting slightly thicker would make a huge difference?

As others have cited, PC laptops with similar specs have throttling issues too.

My point is that, yes, I get that Apple is obsessed with thinness, but I think in some cases these are just the limitations of laptops in general. If you want real power, you're not going to get it from a portable machine.
 
Do any of you guys really think the laptop getting slightly thicker would make a huge difference?

As others have cited, PC laptops with similar specs have throttling issues too.

My point is that, yes, I get that Apple is obsessed with thinness, but I think in some cases these are just the limitations of laptops in general. If you want real power, you're not going to get it from a portable machine.
Yes. A thicker laptop would allow a heatsink with more mass, and bigger fan blades, which would have a huge effect on cooling. Would also allow the air vent to be raised off the table.
 
, but it's still six cores vs 4.

but it gets weird if the 6 cores are running at 2.2GHz and the 4 are at 3.3GHz.

both are a cumulative 13.2GHz


(these aren’t factual numbers.. or they aren’t facts when running the software i use.. i’ll need to see more examples prior to making a decision but there have been some examples showing the above comparison as not being entirely unrealistic)
 
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Do any of you guys really think the laptop getting slightly thicker would make a huge difference?

As others have cited, PC laptops with similar specs have throttling issues too.

My point is that, yes, I get that Apple is obsessed with thinness, but I think in some cases these are just the limitations of laptops in general. If you want real power, you're not going to get it from a portable machine.

Oh yes... We’re not just talking about throttling issues are we...? I want to get back my magsafe, sd card reader, better battery life etc...
 
Please give me a break.

I get so sick of novices on MacRumors acting like a couple bad batteries, software bugs, or some thermal throttling based on a YouTube video means the entire QA department at a Apple is garbage and their perceived inside knowledge of the issue somehow matters. You guys have no knowledge of what is going on at Apple, why decisions are made, what testing is done, etc.

Do any of you people have any concept how massive the operation of Apple is, how much product they move, and how much money they make? I’m not saying it absolves them from every issue but let’s not be so quick to judge or deem a product as a failure. The operation at Apple is approaching a business miracle and they have multiple geniuses at that company.

Apple has a history of making quality products and taking care of customers when that quality is not up to standard.

Let’s also not be so quick to act like your experience at some small operation is anything near applicable to the Apple scale, where over 300 MILLION products per year are built, shipped and supported.

You guys literally have no idea what you’re talking about.

We just dumped all 50 Mac book pros ‘16 and ‘17. They do not perform. They are unserviceable. They have horrific support. This is the edit: Lenovo provides immediate professional support along with immediate response when there is a hardware failure. We had a few machines with heat issues in the field and they provided new machines, back up solutions and we wasted no time at no cost. We can hit the field, render in house and when or if a part drops like a hard drive, ram, etc we can fix it on the spot. Built in sim support, corporate drop ships over night with free return and replacement. (End edit) All of our systems are now Lenovo systems. We do rendering, as well as data collation in both scientific and media fields. The next round is removing the others. These are systems in use here in the states. Next we are dumping in our South Korea, India, and then federal contract sites. So there. The cost to benefit ina real world PROFESSIONAL arena is done. This is not YouTube video editing, this is not a few VMs setting, this is real world. This includes comfy office space, labs, field and other jobs. The pieces will probably be donated off for tax issues. It doesn’t matter that people who pay $2200 for daily drivers are happy. Bottom line mid that pro use is moving on. BSD and Linux do the job. Apple is losing the pro market. You aren’t even getting prosumer level quality. We use Nikon and Canon series equipment, Siemens, etc... This is pro level. Get rid of the facade, they don’t make pro level equipment.
 
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but it gets weird if the 6 cores are running at 2.2GHz and the 4 are at 3.3GHz.

both are a cumulative 13.2GHz

(these aren’t factual numbers.. or they aren’t facts when running the software i use.. i’ll need to see more examples prior to making a decision but there have been some examples showing the above comparison as not being entirely unrealistic)

Good point - only have to look at Jonathan Morrison's Tweets to see that the i9 is a worthy upgrade over the i7 though. These videos that are hyping the thermal throttling problems and causing the latest Apple pandemic are probably making people into hypochondriacs. It's a laptop and it throttles: shock horror.

Jonathan's Tweets alone mean that I'm keeping my new 2018 MacBook Pro i9 when it arrives on Monday... if it's faster, it's worth it in my book. The small increase in price between the i7 and i9 is fine. Even in Premiere, the i9 is still winning the i7 in Jonathan's tests... and by some way as well. I just think the whole thing is blown out of proportion.
 
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Look at it this way... The gas your car uses drives the design of the car? So Texaco is better than Gulf for your Ford? Sorry guy it doesn't quite work that way. While crappy gas can play havoc of your cars fuel tank & engine it could have come from any gas station.

So what does that have to do with Hardware vs Software?

It's basically the same! Your Mac is like your car and the software is like the gas. Yes, poor software will mess you up but thats not happening here! There are too many people running different software seeing this failure. So everyone is running crappy software NOPE!

A firmware fix is all thats needed - NOPE! Not really, it can mask some of the issue by altering the fans engagement slop (running it sooner or higher RPM). But just like someone bailing out a sinking boat if the water is coming in faster than you are getting it out, you're with the fishes! The slope change only starts the bailing a bit sooner thats it!

Messing with the voltage can buy some improvement but again you need to have cherrypicked the best CPU's so you don't encounter a crash (frozen process). Apple didn't do that did they ;-}

Change the thermal paste to something better - Not really an option here as you would void your Apple warranty!

That leaves us with only one thing left! Increase the heatsink mass (I would double it) and I would also triple the fin surfaces and add additional heat pipes. The air flow its self will need to be improved as well.

Thats the rub theres no room to do this in this system frame Apple (and the other thin systems) failed to address the needed cooling of this chip.
[doublepost=1532044916][/doublepost]

The person(s) holding the trigger for shipping the system was not paying attention to what was happening. And/or the engineering group was not forceful enough to stop it if they had misgivings! There was time (granted very little) but they could have stopped it. Now they need to put the product on hold, get the systems back that were shipped and very quickly redesign the upper case with the needed thickness to add the needed heatsink subsystem and the needed venting and fans. If they work real hard breaking the task down into different groups it could be spun in about 4 to 6 months of very hard work. Then there is the safety and emissions testing that would need to be done with the new design and putting it into production. One big mess!!

The last part is recovering the parts from the older systems! Sadly, they can't sell these as new, they will need a fire sale or lease them out.

If they trash them I would have a big problem with that, as we are talking millions of dollars of systems going into a shredder! Thats not ecology minded!

Or they knew about it, that it was throttling 'excessively' vs tech savvy consumer (and pro) expectations, and didn't care?

My 2011 CTO 15" MBP sounded like a jet plane at times. My 2015 15" MBP was bought used due to the not-for-me 2016 refresh. Zero appeal in the touch bar, need an ESC key, no 32GB RAM option, didn't need thinner or a worse keyboard, etc.

This round started out promising when I saw they finally offered 32GB as an option, although somewhat sad they don't offer it on the 13" as now they offer quad-core there, I've been getting used to the smaller size of my work Dell Surfacebook clone.

I was hoping they'd realize not many care about the touch bar, and offer something compelling, but this isn't it...again, for me. Looks like I'll be waiting for the next refresh, again, to see if Apple can get their act together. I don't care their highest end is crazy $ - 4GB SSD aren't peanuts and is good to see for those that absolutely need them, even if a more appealing option would still be user replaceable parts. I don't mind some amount of CPU throttling, but this is excessive and just isn't a compelling purchase for me, no matter how much I'd like to finally get a 32GB OSX system.

As others have said, the current chassis just can't handle the thermals. Perhaps Cook, Ives and co will address it in the next chassis design and I can finally buy another new MBP somewhat worty of both the Apple name and the 'Pro' moniker as well. Or perhaps 'Pro' will become or remain little more than a marketing ploy and enough will still buy them while more and pros are forced back to Windows or Linux on non-Apple hardware.
 
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Good point - only have to look at Jonathan Morrison's Tweets to see that the i9 is a worthy upgrade over the i7 though. These videos that are hyping the thermal throttling problems and causing the latest Apple pandemic are probably making people into hypochondriacs. It's a laptop and it throttles: shock horror.

Jonathan's Tweets alone mean that I'm keeping my new 2018 MacBook Pro i9 when it arrives on Monday... if it's faster, it's worth it in my book. The small increase in price between the i7 and i9 is fine. Even in Premiere, the i9 is still winning the i7 in Jonathan's tests... and by some way as well. I just think the whole thing is blown out of proportion.
thanks. i’ll search to see what his findings are.
 

Someone got mugged. 10,000 USD on a machine that throttles most the time to 2.2ghz, get better for performance on a machine half the price...

Real Apple users are down with dongles and freezers.
 
Look at it this way... The gas your car uses drives the design of the car? So Texaco is better than Gulf for your Ford? Sorry guy it doesn't quite work that way. While crappy gas can play havoc of your cars fuel tank & engine it could have come from any gas station.

So what does that have to do with Hardware vs Software?

It's basically the same! Your Mac is like your car and the software is like the gas.


That's a bad analogy. Your Mac is like your car, and gas is the Mac's battery.

Look at it this way: I'm a software developer and I've tried reading the GPS coordinates from the iPhone. It's not always accurate. But if you take a look at Google Maps for the iPhone, it seems to keep you on the freeway even if the GPS is reporting that you're off the road. How does it do it? It's because the software is compensating the inaccurate data by knowing that you're driving on a freeway by averaging the last few GPS data points, so it sticks your position to the freeway like a magnet. Now if the GPS is reporting extremely inaccurate coordinates then your Google Maps will freak out. But if the GPS is within +/- 0.1miles, Google Maps is able to keep you displayed on the freeway.


If you were to develop a mapping application that displays raw GPS coordinates, that'll be a bad experience. It's up to the software to compensate to provide a better user experience.
 
We just dumped all 50 Mac book pros ‘16 and ‘17. They do not perform. They are unserviceable. They have horrific support. This is the edit: Lenovo provides immediate professional support along with immediate response when there is a hardware failure. We had a few machines with heat issues in the field and they provided new machines, back up solutions and we wasted no time at no cost. We can hit the field, render in house and when or if a part drops like a hard drive, ram, etc we can fix it on the spot. Built in sim support, corporate drop ships over night with free return and replacement. (End edit) All of our systems are now Lenovo systems. We do rendering, as well as data collation in both scientific and media fields. The next round is removing the others. These are systems in use here in the states. Next we are dumping in our South Korea, India, and then federal contract sites. So there. The cost to benefit ina real world PROFESSIONAL arena is done. This is not YouTube video editing, this is not a few VMs setting, this is real world. This includes comfy office space, labs, field and other jobs. The pieces will probably be donated off for tax issues. It doesn’t matter that people who pay $2200 for daily drivers are happy. Bottom line mid that pro use is moving on. BSD and Linux do the job. Apple is losing the pro market. You aren’t even getting prosumer level quality. We use Nikon and Canon series equipment, Siemens, etc... This is pro level. Get rid of the facade, they don’t make pro level equipment.
Show me the numbers that they are losing anything.

Wow, a whole 50 computers?
 
I was holding on to my 17" MBP as long as I could. It was a fantastic machine with lots of usable ports and an express card slot. I removed the Optical Disc drive and replaced it with a 2 TB HDD. The original HD was upgraded to a 2 TB SSD. 4 TB of internal storage! Wherever I travelled, I never had to bother with external discs to edit my video projects.

The graphic card was replaced once for free but shortly after, it failed again and this time Apple did not offer any repairs because the machine was no longer supported. Great!


So now I ordered -with reluctance (keyboard, screen real estate, ports, price of internal storage)- the 2018 MBP with an i9 and 32 GB of RAM. Only to find out, that Apple, as usual nowadays, f...ed it up.

Unbelievable. They simply can't get things done anymore. So many products are flawed, gimped, poorly designed and full of compromises.

 
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