YouTuber Claims 15-Inch MacBook Pro With Upgraded Core i9 Chip is Severely Throttled Due to Thermal Issues

[bkkcanuck8]

Thanks for the detailed info. I am seriously considering a xps 15. Macs are really expensive.

That is not something I could consider at this point -- it would be too painful. I have used pretty much everything from DOS 1.1, to Windows classic, to OS/2, macOS (classic), Coherent, Solaris (I bought a SparcStation 5 I believe), Linux, I even remember CP/M in the mix. I used Windows primarily up until about 2007. I still use Windows remotely for some customer's work but luckily I don't have to bother with any issues - there is an IT department for that. When last I visited my parent's place, I was doing Windows 10 support... by god some of their menus are convoluted... and the UI is not consistent (especially if you have OCD and notice things like menus having different font sizes etc.). I use the computers for work, and the cost of the computer works out to a few weeks billables... being a rather cheap person the absolute numbers can be shocking (about the only expenditure after food and shelter - is my computers)...

I find Windows horrific. I have a soft spot for Linux even through their UI is kludgy and it never seems to 'just work' on bleeding edge laptops (or at least it did not). I also like being able to mix in specialty software that you just cannot get on Linux.

I will continue trying things out, I have even installed Windows 10 for a while but it was not worth keeping. If I find something better come along, I will try it and consider it... (I use macs for primary development and Linux as my test environment for servers etc.)
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My PC desktop builds never reach above 70ºC when maxing the CPU. Heck, it has to be a really hot day to get above 60ºC. Usually the CPU idles around 35-40ºC, and rarely gets above 50ºC on normal usage.

Desktop PCs and laptops are designed differently, because of the limitations the laptop has to be designed to sustain higher temperatures in a confined space whereas for a desktop you basically can do anything.

I have never seen a water cooled laptop

 

[fairuz]

I just want to clear the air on this. Turbo Boost is kind of like overclocking, but Turbo Boost is not overclocking. A CPU will only Turbo Boost to a higher clock speed when the conditions are right, and SHOULD throttle back to the base clock speed when it gets too hot, or the higher clock speed is no longer needed. I say SHOULD throttle back to the base clock speed because the Core i9 MBP does not do this -- it throttles way below base clock speed during normal operations, which is unacceptable.

Overclocking causes the CPU to run at a higher clock speed indefinitely. Unlike with Turbo Boost, an overclocked CPU will not throttle back to the normal base clock when it gets too hot -- it will throttle back to the overclock speed. This is dangerous if the CPU is not properly cooled when running at the overclock speed. This is why almost ALL overclocked machines have beefier cooling systems -- you shouldn't overclock without replacing the normal cooling system with a better one.

It's only semantics, but "overclocking" doesn't necessarily mean the CPU runs above standard clock speed indefinitely. Turbo Boost is considered "dynamic overclocking," where it overclocks the CPU only under certain conditions. I think there are homemade overclock setups that do that too, or you could also increase the clock speed of all the steps and let it throttle as the safety mechanism.

 

[brentsg]

Because if the six core i7 and i9 are performing worse than they should at 100ºC, the throttling at 90ºC would be ridiculous.

I agree with you though, a computer should never reach 100ºC. Even 90ºC is dangerously high.

My PC desktop builds never reach above 70ºC when maxing the CPU. Heck, it has to be a really hot day to get above 60ºC. Usually the CPU idles around 35-40ºC, and rarely gets above 50ºC on normal usage.

The issue isn't to throttle at a lower temp, it's to not provide the CPU power in excess of what the cooling can handle. If it needs to be within 45W package power then you'll get optimal performance by keeping it there, and not having it thermally throttle way down repeatedly by getting too hot.

 

[ipponrg]

And what is the clickwheel, if not a product of design-led innovation? That so perfectly encapsulates the whole Apple experience. That one feature is the dealbreaker which is worth more than every other drawback of the iPod combined.

It’s not so much about the individual products themselves, but the mindset that went behind making them possible. What made products like the iPod so successfully wasn’t so much the raw technology behind them, but how the various components came together to create an experience greater than the individual parts. And you can’t have that with just an engineering mindset.

I got into the Apple ecosystem around 2011-2012. I would come to know about Aboveavalon around 2016-2017. I make no attempt to hide the fact that I am a huge fan of Neil Cybart’s work, but I was already a fan of Apple products long before then. His writings have helped me find the words I needed to to express my thoughts more cogently, but my opinions remain my own.

And that is why you don't understand how they became successful. You don't understand what people went through prior to 2011 to get into the Apple ecosystem, and WHY the ecosystem started thriving around then. Apple had a lot of failures with their "design-led innovation". They happened to get it right on just that one at the time which appealed to the masses. The trackpad, magic mouse, iSight, etc never really garnered much attention despite being "design-led innovation". We can go back even further.

But can a company thrive on iPod hardware alone? Your answer lies in with how Apple is pivoting off the iPhone.

I suppose one might also consider it a "great mindset" and "design led innovation" to completely get off PPC architecture. The results of this ironically happened when you got into the Apple ecosystem, so I'd argue had it not been for that you probably wouldn't be in the Apple ecosystem.

I'm not even trying to be cynical here, and I'm trying to look at it objectively. But I guess parts of me are curious how people like you think because it's quite interesting.

 

[jgbr]

It’s worst than you thought. Worth a watch i7 and i9 users.

 

[pier]

I have never seen a water cooled laptop

https://www.asus.com/us/ROG-Republic-Of-Gamers/ROG-GX700VO/
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The issue isn't to throttle at a lower temp, it's to not provide the CPU power in excess of what the cooling can handle. If it needs to be within 45W package power then you'll get optimal performance by keeping it there, and not having it thermally throttle way down repeatedly by getting too hot.

Yes, in the end the issue is that there is not enough cooling.

But if the hardware controller kept the max temp at 90ºC instead of 100ºC the performance would be even lower which is probably why it's running so high.

 

[jgbr]

No. The VRM isn’t providing enough power and the chip is throttling.

 

[pier]

It’s worst than you thought. Worth a watch i7 and i9 users.

Man, what a disaster these ultra thin laptops are...
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No. The VRM isn’t providing enough power and the chip is throttling.

You are right, I saw the video just now.

 

[Cole Slaw]

It’s worst than you thought. Worth a watch i7 and i9 users.

If that is indeed true, it's really looking pretty bad for Apple.
I'll be keeping my 2015 MBP till I see how this all pans out in the months ahead.

 

[dspdoc]

It’s worst than you thought. Worth a watch i7 and i9 users.

This guy is as biased as it gets. He clearly has it out for Apple. Although he has some valid points and data to back it up, he is still not credible at all in my eyes. Someone that bashes Apple at every turn, every chance they get just doesn’t carry much value to me.

 

[pier]

Here is the original Reddit thread with the VRM info:
https://www.reddit.com/r/macbookpro/comments/91256u/optimal_cpu_tuning_settings_for_i9_mbp_to_stop/

When the VRM maxes out (overheats ... but this is different from CPU thermal throttling), the motherboard sends a signal to the CPU to drop it's speed to minimum (800Mhz) to allow the VRM a chance to cool down. The CPU then returns to it's previous desire to pull maximum power, spins up to high turbo speeds, and the cycle repeats again. When the CPU keeps switching from Turbo to 800Mhz, it is in a very inefficient state, so the amount of work being done relative to the amount of power drawn decreases.

 

[Abazigal]

This guy is as biased as it gets. He clearly has it out for Apple. Although he has some valid points and data to back it up, he is still not credible at all in my eyes. Someone that bashes Apple at every turn, every chance they get just doesn’t carry much value to me.

He focuses on Apple almost exclusively because that’s what gets him the views, but I can’t really find any flaws with his logic or his methodology thus far. It seems Apple really did screw the pooch with a couple of their products (none of which I own apparently) and they do deserve to get called out on them.

At the end of the day, Apple products are what they are, more information about them can’t hurt and it’s ultimately up to the individual to make an informed decision on whether to get one or not.

 

[jgbr]

This guy is as biased as it gets. He clearly has it out for Apple. Although he has some valid points and data to back it up, he is still not credible at all in my eyes. Someone that bashes Apple at every turn, every chance they get just doesn’t carry much value to me.

Irrelevant of what you think of him. His comments are factual engineering and the link in this field to where he gets the data.

RE: VRM- GATE, believe gamers called: nerfed cpu. Lol

 

[Frank Dalton]

Isn’t that irresponsible? You have basically made a blanket prediction without any timeline to back it up. By your logic, Apple could go on to be extremely successful over the next twenty years and you could spend every waking second beating the same old tired horse and still claim to be right by virtue of not having been proven wrong. And you technically cannot be proven wrong because you can’t and won’t commit to a timeline. Just that the end will surely come some day and that’s supposed to somehow just negate all of Apple’s successes all this while?

I have no need to be "right" about anything which is why I don't care about nailing down some arbitrary timeline on this. If I was that good, I would be lining up AAPL short positions on my brokerage website, not spending time on a Mac forum. I am expressing where I believe the company is headed given its current trajectory and I don't think it's good. This will take several years to play out, but if they don't change anything, it will happen. I am also OK with being wrong.

I also remain confused why marketshare and financials seem to be your sole metric of product quality. By that logic, Microsoft was producing fantastic products throughout the 1990s. I didn't agree with that sentiment then and I don't agree that everything Apple is doing now is great and wonderful just because you can point to a balance sheet with impressive dollar results.
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I got into the Apple ecosystem around 2011-2012.

I don't mean this as a slight in any way, but this might be indicative of why you think Apple didn't get where it did by being a computer company. They might be a design company today but that's not what they always were. Many of us were attracted to them and remained Apple loyalists for a long time precisely because we liked what they were doing with *computers*. The iPod and iPhone were a result of that. Steve Jobs was, in my opinion, very much a computer guy and was all about making the power of computers accessible to people. Jony Ive is a design guy whose impulses were quite likely very frequently curtailed by Jobs. Tim Cook is an operations genius but not a computer guy either.

And that is probably what has changed now and why I dislike the path they're on.

 

[dspdoc]

Irrelevant of what you think of him. His comments are factual engineering and the link in this field to where he gets the data.

RE: VRM- GATE, believe gamers called: nerfed cpu. Lol

It may be irrelevant to you what I think of him. It's irrelevant to me what you think. YouTube is big business for this guy. As is Apple bashing.

 

[Frank Dalton]

It may be irrelevant to you what I think of him. It's irrelevant to me what you think. YouTube is big business for this guy. As is Apple bashing.

Does this matter? He’s either factually correct or not. Motivation is merely incidental.

 

[artfossil]

I don't mean this as a slight in any way, but this might be indicative of why you think Apple didn't get where it did by being a computer company. They might be a design company today but that's not what they always were. Many of us were attracted to them and remained Apple loyalists for a long time precisely because we liked what they were doing with *computers*. The iPod and iPhone were a result of that. Steve Jobs was, in my opinion, very much a computer guy and was all about making the power of computers accessible to people.

Apple hasn’t been a computer company—for me at least—since 2001 and the iPod (which I bought thanks to the educational rebate because otherwise the $400 price put it out of my reach.) And really the shift manifested with iTunes eight months before (and I have my receipt for my opening day purchase). Steve Jobs formally acknowledged this shift in 2007. (“The Mac, iPod, Apple TV and iPhone. Only one of those is a computer. So we’re changing the name,” said Jobs.)

The brilliance of Apple for me—from my perspective as a user of 34 years—is that beginning with iTunes and the iPod, they have been able to envision and deliver “solutions” to problems I didn’t know existed. They have defined and satisfied my wants before I even knew I had them—with the iPod, the iPhone, the iPad, Apple TV, iCloud, the Watch and AirPods. This is brilliance.

They also make good computers. I’ve had 20 years of PowerBooks and MacBook Pros (always serviceable and sometimes glorious) and my current iMac is as splendid and elegant a design as I could wish for. But since the iPod and MobileMe an ever increasing percentage of my digital life has revolved around Apple non-computers, not Apple computers.

 

[dspdoc]

Does this matter? He’s either factually correct or not. Motivation is merely incidental.

I honestly don't know if he is "factually" correct. I personally believe that he blurs the lines a little bit and uses a heavy dose of "Apple sucks" to gain clicks.

 

[Evangeline]

This guy is as biased as it gets. He clearly has it out for Apple.

He's been an Apple hater for a good number of years, it's what made him popular. It's how Youtube works nowadays.

I'm struggling to understand some of the reactions here. Worse than we thought? He's told you nothing new and you still jump on the hate train -probably cause you were already on it hmm..

VRM stuff and throttling - we knew about, we've been discussing here
data recovery port removed - there's a reason for that, if you would only consider things rationally for 10 seconds
keyboard - duh. Oh and it's been fixed btw but who cares right?

Go on, get your blood boiling. Give him your view, make him rich, post a comment, get your hate fix.

 

[dspdoc]

He's been an Apple hater for a good number of years, it's what made him popular. It's how Youtube works nowadays.

I'm struggling to understand some of the reactions here. Worse than we thought? He's told you nothing new and you still jump on the hate train -probably cause you were already on it hmm..

VRM stuff and throttling - we knew about, we've been discussing here
data recovery port removed - there's a reason for that, if you would only consider things rationally for 10 seconds
keyboard - duh. Oh and it's been fixed btw but who cares right?

Go on, get your blood boiling. Give him your view, make him rich, post a comment, get your hate fix.

Exactly! It's funny that very few on this thread seem to be paying any attention to videos like:

that really kind of point out that all is drama is over a non-issue.

What it boils down to for me is that when you consider most all the other laptop options out there today, that Apple is still MILES ahead. And this is coming from a person that has tried such disasters as the latest and greatest from ASUS, Gigabyte, Alienware and MSI. All woefully behind the quality of a Mac. Yeah they may have beefier specs on paper, but real world usage is an abysmal experience.

 

[Abazigal]

I have no need to be "right" about anything which is why I don't care about nailing down some arbitrary timeline on this. If I was that good, I would be lining up AAPL short positions on my brokerage website, not spending time on a Mac forum. I am expressing where I believe the company is headed given its current trajectory and I don't think it's good. This will take several years to play out, but if they don't change anything, it will happen. I am also OK with being wrong.

Because the takeaway I get from your argument that is Apple will continue to be successful until it isn’t, and you will be proven right if and when that ever happens.

Which to me is as good as not having made any statement in the first place, because it just feels so vague and noncommittal.

I also remain confused why marketshare and financials seem to be your sole metric of product quality. By that logic, Microsoft was producing fantastic products throughout the 1990s. I didn't agree with that sentiment then and I don't agree that everything Apple is doing now is great and wonderful just because you can point to a balance sheet with impressive dollar results.

They were good enough for the people who bought them, given the options available to them at the time.

Just like enough people evidently like Apple products enough to be willing to pay the higher prices for them. Enough to make Apple as successful as it is today and I feel that counts for something. We aren’t sheep just because we own and use all Apple products but rather, because they meet our needs, flaws and all. I don’t go around denigrating other people’s choice of devices, just as I wish people could learn to accept and respect our choice of hardware, even if it’s pro-iPad.

The way I see it, no product is perfect. We each have different things we value, and that affects our choice of what we end up using. Rather than nitpick at each and every flaw in a product (be it real or perceived), I see it holistically by evaluating each choice as a whole. For example, the iPad is what it is, and since I chose to buy one, it means that I implicitly decide to embrace both its strengths and its shortcomings.

I don't mean this as a slight in any way, but this might be indicative of why you think Apple didn't get where it did by being a computer company. They might be a design company today but that's not what they always were. Many of us were attracted to them and remained Apple loyalists for a long time precisely because we liked what they were doing with *computers*. The iPod and iPhone were a result of that. Steve Jobs was, in my opinion, very much a computer guy and was all about making the power of computers accessible to people. Jony Ive is a design guy whose impulses were quite likely very frequently curtailed by Jobs. Tim Cook is an operations genius but not a computer guy either.

And that is probably what has changed now and why I dislike the path they're on.

My first Apple device was an iMac, which I still love using even to this day, but I have come to enjoy their ios side of things even more. Between my iPhone, iPad, Apple Pencil, Airpods and Apple Watch, I guess that’s why I am pretty upbeat about Apple. Because their current direction so happens to be in tune with what I want out of them.

I recognise that sucks for the Mac enthusiasts and well, it is what it is, I suppose.

 

[jgbr]

Sounds like legitimate factual electronic engineering versus a fan club mentality. I care little for the latter I do like to know how something is engineered and why it is having issues. This is not ‘hating or liking something’.

 

[thepixelpusher]

It’s worst than you thought. Worth a watch i7 and i9 users.

Holy Crap, it's the VRM chip not getting enough power to the processors! So, no fix at all or not even a cooling solution!! Poor engineering! Apple needs to recall these now!

 

[dspdoc]

And yet another:

 

[Frank Dalton]

Because the takeaway I get from your argument that is Apple will continue to be successful until it isn’t, and you will be proven right if and when that ever happens.

Which to me is as good as not having made any statement in the first place, because it just feels so vague and noncommittal.

No. You seem keen on getting me to prognosticate some specific “doomsday” date which isn’t going to happen. I was as specific as I will get in outlining that given the current trajectory, I believe they will be on a downward path within the next few years. That’s a lot different than making no statement and it’s a lot different than saying they’ll be “successful until they’re not.”

They were good enough for the people who bought them, given the options available to them at the time.

So was Microsoft Windows 3.1 and 95. Does that mean we can automatically infer that those were great products?

Just like enough people evidently like Apple products enough to be willing to pay the higher prices for them. Enough to make Apple as successful as it is today and I feel that counts for something. We aren’t sheep just because we own and use all Apple products but rather, because they meet our needs, flaws and all. I don’t go around denigrating other people’s choice of devices, just as I wish people could learn to accept and respect our choice of hardware, even if it’s pro-iPad.

I haven’t called anyone “sheep” nor have I denigrated anyone’s choices. I have criticized and called certain products crap (which are to be seen as nothing more than my personal opinions) but that’s not equivalent to denigrating a choice.

The way I see it, no product is perfect. We each have different things we value, and that affects our choice of what we end up using. Rather than nitpick at each and every flaw in a product (be it real or perceived), I see it holistically by evaluating each choice as a whole. For example, the iPad is what it is, and since I chose to buy one, it means that I implicitly decide to embrace both its strengths and its shortcomings.

Fair points.

My first Apple device was an iMac, which I still love using even to this day, but I have come to enjoy their ios side of things even more. Between my iPhone, iPad, Apple Pencil, Airpods and Apple Watch, I guess that’s why I am pretty upbeat about Apple. Because their current direction so happens to be in tune with what I want out of them.

I recognise that sucks for the Mac enthusiasts and well, it is what it is, I suppose.

Also fair. I’m still partly on the Apple train so I also continue to derive value from many of their offerings, I just disagree with you about where this is going in the future.

Like I said, I’m happy to be wrong.