Zune HD Hands on Demo and Impressions

[dernhelm]

Applications?

Sorry - didn't read this whole thread, but if this is written on Windows CE does this mean that there'll be an app store for it?

 

[peterdevries]

It makes no difference.

The Zune simply won't be enough to challenge the iPod/iTunes paradigm. Apple's ecosystem is not only well-implemented and ridiculously popular with consumers, it's also branded effectively by a company whose goals and focus can be clearly defined in only a few words - or rather, some key buzzwords that have been attached to the Apple name for years now. It's easy to pinpoint Apple's priorities and what the company cares about. It's a simple mission statement.

MS just doesn't have the image or that "we did it right the first time" reputation. MS is a corporate provider trying to play to the consumer. Except people can see through that. Too obvious.

The Zune might be a terrifically engineered product, but no one believes that Microsoft is capable of that kind of innovation that speaks to the right brain, and Apple has leveraged that famously in its ads.

The $30,000 to fill up your iPod" campaign by MS was a failure out of the gate. Subscription services have never been popular, and never will be, much less MS' oddball way of approaching it. Other than Spotify, which you still can't get on mobile devices, they seem to have largely missed the point.

And when we get the next-gen iPhone shortly, most of this will have hardly mattered. The iPhone as an all-in-one device that is proving wildly capable, and is gradually pushing everything else into obsolescence. Zune HD = no apps, no games, no momentum, nothing that we haven't seen before . . . while all the developers are flocking to develop for Apple's devices. All the talent is headed for Apple country, and it's paying off for both developers and users. Big time.

Users, pundits, developers, have already placed the iPhone and iPod Touch squarely against the DS and PSP, two devices which are rapidly losing their mindshare to Apple. And frankly, the more we see the comparisons, the more those two devices look like one-trick relics. No mean feat. Quite an accomoplishment by Apple. Mindhsare is ALL. And Apple actually has the goods to get it.

As long as Apple remains in the picture, and as long as they stick to their priorities and carry forward their philosophy about how they envision everyday people interacting with technology, no one else really has a chance.

I agree on most of your points, but what many people seem to forget here is that most people that are in the market for a PMP, do not have the knowledge about these gadgets that we here have. WE know the difference between LCD and OLED and what it means, and WE know the value of the App Store etc. But a lot of people that go buy a touchscreen based PMP would just go for the newest product with a good price. If the Zune sits anywhere near the price of an Ipod Touch, than it could definitely be a competitor to the Touch. It's not only fanboys and engadget and gizmodo visitors that would buy the thing..

I personally won't be "fooled", but there will be scores of people that go into a store and see these things lying side by side and will think "both look cool and are approx. the same price. Which do I expect will work better with my PC at home? Guess I'll go for the Zune then..".

On the other hand, I'm very interested to see what will happen outside of the States, since HD Radio means squat here in Europe. In addition it will be difficult for MS to get a footprint in any retail store here to sell the Zune. Apple has a gigantic advantage here in Europe because there are some Apple stores and people are used to buying Apple products online. This is not the case for MS products and there is no prior experience with the Zune here in Europe. I don't know anyone that has the Zune desktop software installed.

Even though the Zune HD might be a viable alternative to the Touch, I expect it to have a difficult start here in Europe (if it will be sold at all here).

 

[xhambonex]

it looks good and it has that design feel to it that I think Apple products lack these days. I enjoy interfaces that don't look like they were made for children, but I don't understand why they couldn't do a better job at making sure the words fit on the screen. It looks fancy, but the "e" being cut off the screen would bug me constantly.

I'm happy to see a Zune worth reading about, hopefully E3 will give people even better reasons to get this product. The only thing that could possibly make this more interesting for me would be a great integration of XBLA. MS has a lot of content on the XBLM, they need to take advantage. If this was also able to control a 360 for home media reasons than that would be fantastic.

 

[iDarbert]

The UI is clearly polished and well executed, but I think it's plain stupid to deem it a "better UI".
It's all down to personal tastes, I prefer the iPhoneOS "solid" UI to the Zune HD's upcoming "abstract" UI.

When referring to a better UI in a review several things should be taken into account, like responsiveness, accessibility, ease of use and so on - looks are definitely something you may want to hold back on judging and so far the new UI hasn't impressed me in those terms.

For example, if you want to jump from - say - playlists to videos on an iPod touch you would use the bottom tabs to quickly do so.
On the Zune HD on the other hand it appears you have to go back to the main menu and scroll down to the videos.

It's a pretty natural approach I guess, kinda like the original iPod but I can't help but think it's a useless step.

I have to admit though, the Zune HD does look very slick and I hope it gets the attention it deserves (assuming it works as well as advertised).

 

[Journojulz]

If they try to "wow" me with the music UI, I will be very disappointed. That is so 2005.

I downloaded the Zune pc software yesterday for a laugh - pretty, but also pretty useless.

A large ammount of the ipods success is built on how solid and useable iTunes is......

 

[BlackMax]

That UI looked horrible. Ignoring the fact that it is a poor iPod touch knock-off, I didn't see many redeeming qualities in that video.

 

[cleanup]

I would definitely consider this if it synced with iTunes. The only reason I have an iPhone is because it syncs with iTunes. In reality it's kind of a crappy phone, and I never web-browse on it.

If they finally bring the Zune client/software to Mac, however (I'm sure getting Mac users to buy a Zune is a lot easier than getting them to switch to PC), who knows! And as of right now my main machine is a Windows 7 build, so I could give it a shot.

Bleh. Goddammit, iTunes. Stop being a good music manager. Let me use something else!

 

[lanceharris]

How on earth can anyone say that the zune has a better u.i.? When I swipe to open an ipod touch, I have instant access to 20 apps on my home screen presented in a clear organized way with beautiful icons, the zune gives you access to 6.5 (the bottom one is cut off) with oversized text. The text that reads marketplace is to big to fit on the screen (ha) I think they are going for some sort of style with this but it just looks sloppy and not well thought out. The only thing good sounding is the display (which unfortunately you can't see in the video well) and the hd out. Why on earth people are stoked on having a radio anymore is beyond me. I guess if you enjoy inane chatter and 70% commercials it will be cool, I'll stick with pandora thanks. I am betting I will see a few of these devices out in the wild with people who only are interested in the hd out feature. Which I guess will be a few more than the regular zunes I have seen out in the wild (0).

 

[ddTaylor]

The video doesn't really portray a "great screen." I'd like to see a better video some time soon.

You need only to wait a few weeks and play with one at WALMART - OH NO! Not Walmart! It is diluting the MS brand by being sold at WM!

Anyway - it looks GREAT! If it would only sync with iTunes I would be first in line to buy one...well, not really as I do not wait in line for anything, save for the Wii Fit for my kids for Christmas - as I bought it at...WALMART! How DARE Nintendo sell something at the great satan of retail - WALMART!

D

More physically beautiful and a better UI than the ipod touch, GIVE ME A BREAK!!!

You do realize that those two sites mentioned are NOT fans of Apple OR MS, right? What reason would they say what they said? Did they all get free ZuneHD's? Did Ballmer offer them a free person chair massage in order to grease the initial posting on the HD?

NO! They like it - they really do - so what? You have NOT used it hands-on NOR have you held one! How do you know it sucks? Oh, wait! I know - it carries the MS label so it must bite, right?

D

 

[triskadecaepyon]

Easy when you know how.
Don't know where they get their ideas from... 😉
http://att.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=172871&d=1243449787

I guess it just goes to show that Apple moves the industry along. I mean the Ipod Touch/iPhone has been out for more than a year, so to make something comparable and competitive in a few years is expected. But unless other companies start innovating, they'll always be slightly behind the times.

 

[Journojulz]

What reason would they say what they said?

In a word - access.

(I am an ex journalist and know there are some doors you don't want slamming)

How do you know it sucks? Oh, wait! I know - it carries the MS label so it must bite, right?

Well, the zune pc software is not a great advert, it is overstyled and under-substanced with some serious compatibility and performance issues.

Does anyone actually use it to manage their media library?

 

[ddTaylor]

It does look nice, but the iPod Touch is really a different beast altogether when you consider the iTunes integration and the App Store.

If they found a way to do what Palm did and have a device that showed up in iTunes, then it would be a reasonable alternative for someone only interested in a straight up music/video player (well not for me, as my music is Apple Lossless and I don't believe their AAC compatibility extends to lossless). But I think the market has pretty soundly rejected the "mass storage drag and drop" paradigm of music player management -- I guess it still has its devotees, but it is so Nomad Jukebox i could puke.

If I were Microsoft, I would definitely do a Zune desktop client that mimicked iTunes.

All they would have to do it write a client that pulled non DRM or Apple loss-less music and sync it with the Zune. Why re-create a music app when all you need is a visual representation of what you already have that is NOT protected using the Apple DRM? You could creat play-lists and it could refresh when new music is purchased. If they had a Mac client I would very much be considering the new MS ZuneHD. It looks great - the OLED and the speed seems to be a huge improvement over other Apple products - but having NOT used one in person I cannot say with certainty.

D

 

[Colrath]

Still two topics I posted about previous, and hardly addressed.

How long will the OLED last before the brightness fades out?

More disturbing are the results on “differential aging”. The problem with OLED materials is that the blue phosphors lose their brightness much faster than the red and green phosphors. According to DisplaySearch’s tests, after just 1,000 hours of use the blue phosphor light output dropped by 12%. This is in contrast with the 7% drop for red and 8% drop for green. If the set were to include a feedback circuit that would lower the red and green levels to match the blue output, then the set would reach half brightness that much sooner. But if no adjustment is made, then the image will become yellow; red, green, and blue make white, but with less blue, the red and green will give the image a yellow tint. This is hardly acceptable for a product as expensive as the Sony OLED TV.

Also, where is the web browser? I use the web browser on my iPhone and my gf's Ipod Touch constantly. As a web developer, I obvious have some mixed feelings about IE.

Source used: http://hdtvprofessor.com/HDTVAlmanac/?p=679

 

[nefan65]

So how is that "innovative"? It looks like a bad rip off of the iPod family. I don't see how this is going to make people leave Apple in droves. Maybe get some new sales, or kids without a lot of cash.

I know it's a video, and the guy holding it was a moron, but it looked unresponsive and buggy. Typical MS; take a technology that someone else created, and works. Then modify it, say they did it, and ruin it...LOL

 

[Colrath]

When I swipe to open an ipod touch, I have instant access to 20 apps on my home screen presented in a clear organized way with beautiful icons

Probably not worth a post reminding people about 3.0 software which will give more control over app placement, and Spotlight.

However, I think it is.

You have NOT used it hands-on NOR have you held one! How do you know it sucks? Oh, wait! I know - it carries the MS label so it must bite, right?

"And you can really see the High Def." <- Not biased at all when you're looking at a low resolution screen.

 

[janstett]

I thought it was funny when the guy doing the demo tried to turn it to landscape hoping for something to happen, but nothing did.

You mean like everything on the iPhone aside from the web browser?

 

[killmoms]

Things I like: HD video decoding/output, UI "snappiness."

Things I don't like: UI that's trying too hard (all the blurry/cut-off text, mostly)

I guess I'm ambivalent about the rest. Only time will tell if OLED has really overcome its degradation problems. Sure the screen might function for 50,000 hours, but if it loses half its brightness and contrast in the first year or two, who cares?

Seems to me if the new iPhone's hardware and software optimizations are enough to speed it up, Apple won't really be threatened here. Certainly they have enough momentum to coast for a while.

Not that I think that's a good idea—clearly there are some hardware advances happening in the mobile arena that they'd be fools not to take advantage of (most notably Tegra). Speed speed speed—the most annoying thing about the iPhone/iPod touch right now is the lack of snap. Apps take too long to load, full stop. I'm hoping the rumored hardware bumps are enough to solve those problems, but if not, Apple needs to move QUICKLY to fix them. All the software in the world (on the impossible-to-navigate and filled-with-crap App Store) won't save an annoyingly laggy platform.

All that said, there are GREAT apps in the sea of crap that is the App store. And, of course, the iPhone/iPod touch integrates marvelously with the Apple ecosystem. The one thing Microsoft seems to struggle with is getting any sort of synergy between their various products. In many ways they're a company where the right hand doesn't know what the left is doing. Penny Arcade put it best in their comic strip for today—the likelihood that they'll fully realize the potential level of integration that would make the device truly impressive/compelling is (based on their history) probably pretty low.

 

[uberamd]

All they would have to do it write a client that pulled non DRM or Apple loss-less music and sync it with the Zune. Why re-create a music app when all you need is a visual representation of what you already have that is NOT protected using the Apple DRM? You could creat play-lists and it could refresh when new music is purchased. If they had a Mac client I would very much be considering the new MS ZuneHD. It looks great - the OLED and the speed seems to be a huge improvement over other Apple products - but having NOT used one in person I cannot say with certainty.

D

Did we watch the same video? I saw a 1 minute clip of someone flipping through some photos, going to a radio tuner, and clicking music. Browser? I didn't see how it looked. Apps? Didn't see those either. So if you base your purchasing decision off of a 1 minute clip and the OLED screen and a 'speed improvement' that I didn't see (and I have an iPhone and iPod Touch running 3.0 and its very fast), Microsoft has really gotten to you.

 

[urbanlung]

UI better? my arse!

There seems to be some confusion between the functionality of a UI and whether its animations are pretty or not. Whilst what the Zune demoed may be in some eyes attractive, the UI was, to the extent we saw it, awfull. Lists for fs sake, how would I get to my 78th application (should it actualy get that many)? Poor use of space and animation that exists only to look pretty without any informational function. UI design is subtle and deep and it has nothing to do eye candy. This is one of the many areas Microsoft seem to exhibit a massive blind spot. They imitate without understanding or perhaps caring about what it is they are copying, they never seem to ask why something might be done in a certain way.

 

[uberamd]

You mean like everything on the iPhone aside from the web browser?

er... my Text message, and email UI both flips on its side when I turn my phone. Its called 3.0, and its just around the corner. I have been using those features for months now.

 

[Journojulz]

Apple understands that presents are best left as surprises.

When the new toy is annunced you get all the excitement of imminent gratification.

The roll out for this thing isn't for months yet, and by the time it does, there rest of the mp3-smartphone industry will have had time to steal the good bits and choose fonts that don't fall off the screen.

I know competition is good for the industry - but the zune project must be a vast money pit on the balance sheet.

They should stick to what thery are good at - (making uncomfortable office software that people have had bought for them whether they like it or not 😉)

 

[*LTD*]

So how is that "innovative"? It looks like a bad rip off of the iPod family. I don't see how this is going to make people leave Apple in droves.

It won't. It'll probably sell as much as the previous Zune model.

Bank on Apple changing the game again with their next iPod/iPhone models.

 

[keruah]

It runs WindowsCE. It probably has around 10 times the number of apps and games the AppStore has.

10 times? all (multi)touch ready? ok.

 

[peterdevries]

I don't see how this is going to make people leave Apple in droves.

Making people switch from the Touch to the Zune is entirely not the purpose. It's supposed to provide an alternative for people that are in the market for a PMP of the Touch type. 99,9% of all people on this planet still don't have an iPod Touch, so I think there is enough potential buyers for the Zune HD (as there are for the iPod Touch btw..).

 

[uberamd]

10 times? all (multi)touch ready? ok.

Exactly. Not only that, I wonder if he has ever used a Windows handheld app before.