Not sure I'd agree SSDs will wear out faster than CPU/memory/display. Based on 20 GB/day, even the old Samsung 840 Pro would last 30+ years. In a torture test, the same drive wrote 2.4 PB before it died. The newer drives used by Apple in the last couple years are much faster and no less reliable than the gold ole 840 Pro.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
15-Inch MacBook Pro With Touch Bar Has Non-Removable SSD
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Not sure I'd agree SSDs will wear out faster than CPU/memory/display. Based on 20 GB/day, even the old Samsung 840 Pro would last 30+ years. In a torture test, the same drive wrote 2.4 PB before it died. The newer drives used by Apple in the last couple years are much faster and no less reliable than the gold ole 840 Pro.
So you can't upgrade your mac but I'm sure Apple can. Or would this be the case: if your SSD dies 1 day after the warranty your MBP is dead for good. You can't do anything else with that machine. Even Apple can't replace the SSD for a new one. Is that the case?
Yes, your backup would only be since your last backup. If you have such critical data that logic board failure during an hour in between TM backups, or an afternoon travellng, would be a critical blow to your productivity or profits then you should probably use dropbox or something!
...buy why would I want a laptop that provide few new benefits, while introducing problems that weren't problems before?
The good ol 840 pro had nice big (transistor size) very durable MLC memory. The smaller the NAND transistors the less durable it is. Knowing cheap Apple they probably used 3D TLC NAND with much less P/E cycles. Is there a way to find out if it's using MLC vs TLC?
Why does they call it pro then? A very basic pro function is that storage are removed by owning company before the unit is sent to service.
While the new entry-level 13-inch MacBook Pro with function keys has a removable SSD, the same cannot be said for the Touch Bar model.
MacRumors reader Jesse D. unscrewed the bottom lid on his new 15-inch MacBook Pro with a Touch Bar and discovered, unlike the 13-inch model sans Touch Bar, there is no cutout in the logic board for removable flash storage. Another reader said the 13-inch model with a Touch Bar also has a non-removable SSD.
Given the SSD appears to be permanently soldered to the logic board, users will be unable to upgrade the Touch Bar MacBook Pro's flash storage beyond Apple's 512GB to 2TB built-to-order options on its website at the time of purchase. In other words, the amount of flash storage you choose will be permanent for the life of the notebook.
The discovery also increases the importance of backing up data using Time Machine or a similar solution in case of logic board failure.
These are the first MacBook Pro models to ship with non-removable SSDs, following in the footsteps of the 12-inch MacBook.
The photos also show "pretty large, nearly index finger width gaps" around the battery cells, possibly to keep the MacBook Pro's overall weight lower and to encourage better airflow. The fan placement and internal layout of Touch Bar models is significantly different than the standard function key model.
Official teardowns from the likes of iFixit and OWC should confirm and provide a better look at the non-removable SSDs.
Article Link: 15-Inch MacBook Pro With Touch Bar Has Non-Removable SSD
Why
Wow didn't realize at AppleCare is a poopton more expensive for the rmbp 15. $300!!! I thought I would be close to iMac AppleCare price. I guess Apple is baking in the cost of all those dgpu repairs and now soldered ssds.
Fair points (though I still doubt these new SSDs are sure to wear out before anything else...hehe). The guys doing tear-downs don't seem to be identifying the NAND type. The only thing I saw mentioned was folks from OWC saying the 13" non-Touchbar had an "Apple designed controller". The images I have seen of the NAND packages don't make it easy to see if they are stamped with something (Samsung, etc.). Anandtech mentioned Ryan is "wrapping up" their review of the new MBPs, and I suspect that might be our best chance of identifying the type.
If you are happy to accept high repair prices because Apple wants to solder every single component in then that helps perpetuate apples behaviour.
As for replacing a battery with a third party one. What would you suggest, throwing a 5 year old laptop in the trash or using a third party battery? Apple won't supply me one. As it happens, that laptop I was able to upgrade to replace both ram and hdd to give it extra life.
I don't know if you read this on iFixit but there's a connector without function.
One person in the comments wrote:
"Too many lines to be a diagnostic port, look at the shielding as well, this is a high speed interface.
I'm thinking Apple realized it need a means to access the soldered SSD if the rest of the system died. So this is a jumper block to connect the onboard SSD to either the onboard CPU or externally to another system to access the data on the SSD via the connection. Its also possible it may allow one to add in a daughter board, additional SSD storage."
And another one agreed with them. So there might be hope for the data in case of a logic board fail.
That is certainly interesting...but why not just make the SSD removable?
Is there a tangible manufacturing benefit to soldering on a $1000+ piece of kit?
EDIT: Is there a possibility that larger SSD sizes are actually NOT soldered, but instead attached via this socket? Was the teardown a 2TB model?
That's just insulting. Instead of using a PCIe m.2 SSD that can be swapped out in a few minutes, they solder the chips and implement an emergency port to read data from the SSD before trashing it with the LB.
And why? Simply to drive sales and make hand-downs less appealing.
No way. I tore down my 1TB (those pictures on the MR article are mine) and it didn't have it. There's not enough space by the blank plug to support a whole socket / mounting bracket / 2TB SSD PCB. It looks mysteriously diagnostic-y.
While this does seem "logical", there are some issues with it.
Time Machine doesn't help you when you are not connected to a network, especially your own home one, nor can you gain access to the cloud if you're not somehow tethered with internet connection.
Never mind the fact you cannot buy a single Apple "pro" laptop with a LTE connection. Kind of rules out "the cloud" for a lot of mobile use, and since this is a laptop, it's intended for mobile.
SO there's a lot of possible points where your data may not be backed up. While the methods other's have talked about SUCKS to get your data, it's still a lost ditch possibility should you suffer huge failure of the logic board.
when the SSD soldered in, This is now completely impossible. This maynot be a problem to many, I'm aware. But coming from my own logic, it means I cannot have this laptop (or others with soldered SSD's) in my company. we CANNOT have unencrypted drives leave our office. We cannot also allow for the potential that we cannot self recover the data on a drive. This doesn't just go for apple either. If we canot remove the drive itself, it can't be used in our offices.
I won't lose data because I backup properly - and it doesn't take "oodles of time" it takes literally minutes to restore from a well kept bootable backup.
As I said, you should be worrying less about if your SSD on the logic board will fail and you can't get data back and more about what happens if you drop and destroy the computer, poor liquid over it, have it burn in a house fire, get it stolen - all of those would also cause your data to be unrecoverable from the device. There's no excuse to backup and saying "usually if the computer failed Apple would give it me back with my data on" is ridiculous.
[doublepost=1479344485][/doublepost]
So you've not been using MacBook's for a good few years then?
Dropping the laptop or spilling liquid on the laptop does not affect the SSD.
Sure, you can imagine scenarios where the SSD doesn't survive such as after a fire. You can also imagine scenarios where the backup also didn't survive (i.e. also destroyed by the fire).
The point is that being able to remove the SSD gives one more chance to be able to recover the data.
I think I kind of do since in my computer it has and needs to
- Multiple Virtual Machines
- Multiple Development Platforms (Xcode, PowerBuilder, Visual Studios, Android Studios)
- Local Test SQL, MySQL Databases
- Local Test Magento, .NET Websites
- Run all these things smoothly for Training clients, showing now modules, and demo for potential customers and show the ecosystem.
- Task manage all staff make sure EVERYTHING works correctly. (Running Skype, Slack, Trello, bunch of managing tools on multiple screens)
- Efficiently fix and test functions or generating sensitive documents in a timely matter (some are time sensitive like an ASN 856)
Its pretty damn embarrassing when you're computer starts to slow down when you're at a client's or presenting a demo, which on my 09 13" MBP I was able to solve by adding 8 GB of ram and two SSD drives (one on the optical drive)
Its going to pretty damn embarrassing to bring out a whole bunch of dongles when you do a demo or a training session. Or that you figure out you forgot to bring a dongle from your home or you accidentally forgot it at another client's office (because these things happen, whats more important engaging your clients or caring about a stupid DONGLE OR ADAPTER)
You tell me what a Professional computer is.
Last edited:
You tell me what a professional is, and i'll tell you what a professional computer is. Its a very very broad term, and the people it refers to have very very broad needs. Obviously no computer will ever meet every one's needs.
You'd have to pay Apple for a logic board replacement, although if it was barely out of warranty I'd point that out and see if they'd do it for free. But I don't think you could pay Apple to swap the logic board just to get the machine upgraded, you would be gently steered towards a new MacBook Pro.
Haha that 2015 versions are looking better and better each day sadly the maxed out refurbished one 2015 15 inch was gone in no time.
There is zero excuse for having the ssd, ram and battery soldered on.
Looks like Yve and his thinness tick has taken over full time. TC is Apple's Balmer
There is zero excuse for having the ssd, ram and battery soldered on.
Looks like Yve and his thinness tick has taken over full time. TC is Apple's Balmer