I’m certainly not giving it away for $1K. Thing cost almost $3,500 with AC+ and sales tax.
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16-Inch MacBook Pro Replaces Discontinued 15-Inch Model, Pricing Ranges Between $2,399 and $6,099
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And you couldn't just have said this instead of that mean spirited comment? This is much better and makes you not look like an...something.
I too get a chuckle about those who constantly complain about the MBPs keyboard and thermal management. Maybe an "etch a sketch" would be a little more to your liking. Get over these trivial, nonsensical complaints — it's JUST A KEYBOARD . LOL!
So I read through all the comments to this point and selected a few to consider in my reply, and my thoughts are...
What the **** is wrong with some of you people?!
As close as possible to spec for spec this thing is nearly US$1000 cheaper than a maxed out previous 15" model.
Before the significant price drops a few months ago, a maxed out 15" was about $1500 MORE expensive than this maxed out 16" (with double the ram and processor and much faster graphics).
People complaining about the entry level price...? Wtf? This specs in this thing are amazing for a laptop. Compare this with anything else comparable on the market from any other (decent) computer company and it's on a par.
Sure 2-3 years ago the performance of the MacBook Pros kinda sucked and it was hard to really call them Pro, but this is a portable Mac Pro. If you can't afford the price of this base model then what are you using it for that needs this kind of power? If you need a bigger screen than the 13" or the Air then get a refurb for a whole lot less with all the same warranty and so on as a new one. Otherwise get a 13". What's the problem??
This is (almost) the Pro MBP that we've all been asking for. (Nearly) every complaint has been addressed:
- performance (everywhere)
- better cooling/thermal management
- keyboard (scissor, inverted T, physical esc key)
- higher max specs
- better pricing
- etc.
Ports? Get over it and move on. The old ports aren't coming back, and thank goodness for that. TB3+ and USB-C is the future. Apple changed the above things because they were sorely needed improvements that EVERYONE wanted. The ports? Nope. Most pro users don't want the old ports and appreciate the performance, and near infinite options that TB3 brings. Now we have choice, that we didn't have before. I've said before, if Apple didn't push these envelopes, then we'd still be using DBA, SCSI (terminators? ugh), and floppy drives.
If you want Magsafe, get any of these: https://www.google.com/search?q=USB-C+magsafe -- you have choice!! There's countless options. If none of those suit your needs, then you're impossible to please.
If you really need USB-A, HDMI, SD cards, Ethernet, etc. then get any of these: https://www.hypershop.com/collections/usb-c-hubs/ -- again, choice!! One (or even two) of those hubs plus the Mac is still significantly less to carry around than if Apple had to increase the size of the machine to include all those ports back inside it - making it likely similar to the 2015 model in size and weight. No thanks!! At least some of us Pro users do NOT want that.
Aside from which, how to please everyone? There are countless different port combinations that no matter what combination Apple chose to build in, couldn't possibly please everyone. Why should I have a laptop that includes an SD slot instead of more of something else when I NEVER use SD. And the same goes for any of the other ports and combinations. No. One all powerful port that provides near infinite choices that we never had before... That's the future. If you really want to stay in the past then buy a refurb 2015 machine and stay in 2015. Otherwise come into 2019+ and stop complaining.
Soldered RAM and Storage? Again, the right choice. Soldering it makes for much fewer points of failure, and makes more space for better cooling. The two complaints people have about this soldering are:
So instead, NOW buy a 2 year old one on the refurb store for half the price of one of these, since that's the power you need now, and then upgrade that to one of these (which will be 2 years old on the refurb store then and half the price it is now, at that point).
THAT's how you UPGRADE your Mac. This is how things work now - and it's how it should work - and it's not going back. Educate yourself and understand the improvements that come with soldering these in. And educate yourself on the economics of upgrading this way instead of piece by piece in an otherwise aging machine. Everything is integrated now, and that gets better results. This is the future, and I for one don't want them to go back, and lose those improvements.
WiFi6? What do you want Apple to do? Correct me if I'm wrong on this one but as I understand it this is Intel's limitation not Apple's. Apple has put the best processors readily available into these machines and those processors are the limitation. What more do you want (from Apple), assuming I haven't got this one wrong?
720p Camera? The higher res ones just don't physically fit, so again what are they supposed to do?
All that said, I said "(Nearly) every complaint...". This isn't quite perfect. The TouchBar still sucks and not making it optional is disappointing. But... What else?!
You people who are STILL complaining after THIS upgrade... you just don't get it. Why don't you put your efforts into educating yourself and becoming a better person (which will in turn improve your computer purchases and use) instead of sitting around whining?
And at the other end I think you don't understand what "entry level" means. It's a pro machine, not entry level. The "entry level" mac laptop is US$1099 or UK£1099 (MacBook Air). And for what it is, it's pretty amazing too.
I agree with you on the TouchBar though.
It's called resolution independence. Any physically higher ppi is a pointless waste of battery life and graphics card/chip power.
Mind you, If you don't like Apple's resolution independence implementation, perhaps you should try Windows' train wreck of an implementation and get back to us.
Does any other laptop on the market have more than 16GB of LPDDR4 RAM? From everything I'm reading Coffee Lake (these 9th Gen chips) doesn't support it. Likewise, from everything I can find, the 802.11ax is an Intel limitation not Apple. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on this one. But I'm pretty sure this isn't a "Cheapskate" thing. Jeez.
But these prices are comparable to the past. I spent A$9-10K on a Mac laptop more than once in the past. That's often been Apple's maxed out price in AUD. "No laptop is worth that"...? Depends what you're using it for. Sure it's not worth it to you, but how can you speak for everyone?
Relative specs of MacBooks and iBooks. Lol. Ok. If you say so.
What the **** is wrong with some of you people?!
As close as possible to spec for spec this thing is nearly US$1000 cheaper than a maxed out previous 15" model.
Before the significant price drops a few months ago, a maxed out 15" was about $1500 MORE expensive than this maxed out 16" (with double the ram and processor and much faster graphics).
People complaining about the entry level price...? Wtf? This specs in this thing are amazing for a laptop. Compare this with anything else comparable on the market from any other (decent) computer company and it's on a par.
Sure 2-3 years ago the performance of the MacBook Pros kinda sucked and it was hard to really call them Pro, but this is a portable Mac Pro. If you can't afford the price of this base model then what are you using it for that needs this kind of power? If you need a bigger screen than the 13" or the Air then get a refurb for a whole lot less with all the same warranty and so on as a new one. Otherwise get a 13". What's the problem??
This is (almost) the Pro MBP that we've all been asking for. (Nearly) every complaint has been addressed:
- performance (everywhere)
- better cooling/thermal management
- keyboard (scissor, inverted T, physical esc key)
- higher max specs
- better pricing
- etc.
Ports? Get over it and move on. The old ports aren't coming back, and thank goodness for that. TB3+ and USB-C is the future. Apple changed the above things because they were sorely needed improvements that EVERYONE wanted. The ports? Nope. Most pro users don't want the old ports and appreciate the performance, and near infinite options that TB3 brings. Now we have choice, that we didn't have before. I've said before, if Apple didn't push these envelopes, then we'd still be using DBA, SCSI (terminators? ugh), and floppy drives.
If you want Magsafe, get any of these: https://www.google.com/search?q=USB-C+magsafe -- you have choice!! There's countless options. If none of those suit your needs, then you're impossible to please.
If you really need USB-A, HDMI, SD cards, Ethernet, etc. then get any of these: https://www.hypershop.com/collections/usb-c-hubs/ -- again, choice!! One (or even two) of those hubs plus the Mac is still significantly less to carry around than if Apple had to increase the size of the machine to include all those ports back inside it - making it likely similar to the 2015 model in size and weight. No thanks!! At least some of us Pro users do NOT want that.
Aside from which, how to please everyone? There are countless different port combinations that no matter what combination Apple chose to build in, couldn't possibly please everyone. Why should I have a laptop that includes an SD slot instead of more of something else when I NEVER use SD. And the same goes for any of the other ports and combinations. No. One all powerful port that provides near infinite choices that we never had before... That's the future. If you really want to stay in the past then buy a refurb 2015 machine and stay in 2015. Otherwise come into 2019+ and stop complaining.
Soldered RAM and Storage? Again, the right choice. Soldering it makes for much fewer points of failure, and makes more space for better cooling. The two complaints people have about this soldering are:
- Something goes wrong you have to replace the entire logic board instead of just a piece. Ok. Why is that a problem? Buy AppleCare, and then it's Apple's problem not yours - for three years.
- Can't upgrade. Wrong. Buy what you need. What are you possibly doing that needs more RAM or storage (and more of nothing else) later than you need now? When you're ready to upgrade, sell the old one and buy a new one. I've been doing that for as long as I've owned Apple products, and it's no more expensive and keeps me up to date with everything, not just RAM and storage.
So instead, NOW buy a 2 year old one on the refurb store for half the price of one of these, since that's the power you need now, and then upgrade that to one of these (which will be 2 years old on the refurb store then and half the price it is now, at that point).
THAT's how you UPGRADE your Mac. This is how things work now - and it's how it should work - and it's not going back. Educate yourself and understand the improvements that come with soldering these in. And educate yourself on the economics of upgrading this way instead of piece by piece in an otherwise aging machine. Everything is integrated now, and that gets better results. This is the future, and I for one don't want them to go back, and lose those improvements.
WiFi6? What do you want Apple to do? Correct me if I'm wrong on this one but as I understand it this is Intel's limitation not Apple's. Apple has put the best processors readily available into these machines and those processors are the limitation. What more do you want (from Apple), assuming I haven't got this one wrong?
720p Camera? The higher res ones just don't physically fit, so again what are they supposed to do?
All that said, I said "(Nearly) every complaint...". This isn't quite perfect. The TouchBar still sucks and not making it optional is disappointing. But... What else?!
You people who are STILL complaining after THIS upgrade... you just don't get it. Why don't you put your efforts into educating yourself and becoming a better person (which will in turn improve your computer purchases and use) instead of sitting around whining?
Do you have any idea what's actually in this when it's fully loaded? What's the problem?
And at the other end I think you don't understand what "entry level" means. It's a pro machine, not entry level. The "entry level" mac laptop is US$1099 or UK£1099 (MacBook Air). And for what it is, it's pretty amazing too.
Exactly. Except maybe this step in the right direction is more than tiny...? lol.
From all accounts so far (including my own use), Catalina appears to be one of the most stable and safe releases in years. The only real problem is for anyone still relying on any 32-bit apps. If that's the case though, a virtual machine is a great solution. (My employer is still using 8 year old FileMaker 11 [current version is 18]. I'm running it in a Parallels virtual machine running Yosemite. But I needed that in every macOS since El Capitan anyway). I've found Catalina to be very solid.
Yep. Sigh.
Why "don't say [you] to buy dongles"? Buy dongles. Although no, don't buy a bunch of dongles. Buy one tiny portable hub, of which there are countless choices to choose from (see my link above), plus any of the USB-C Mag-Safe solutions I linked above. What's the problem?
I agree with you on the TouchBar though.
Actually it's less. Agreed, good show.
1 of these maxed out is less than the base Mac Pro and not far off similar performance I expect - certainly comparable with the iMac Pro. So one of these plus a decent monitor and you don't need the iMac at all, surely?
Yep.
Why? It's a pointless waste of graphics performance and battery life. Normal people with perfectly good vision will see absolutely no difference. If anything I just wish they'd make it brighter (more nits).
Exactly.
Umm... yeah. As someone else said, value isn't about price, it's about what you get for it. Brand new BMW with no compromises for $2399? That would be tremendous value. A dinner spoon for $2399, not so much. The stuff that's in this Mac for $2399 - perhaps not tremendous, but certainly very good value.
It's not about how many pixels it's about ppi. All Mac displays are now in the 218-226ppi range, and that's because it's the least power hungry etc. ppi that, for all but a few very special people, you can't see the pixels no matter what resolution you set the dispay to. Which also means all but a few very special people can't see the difference between 2x or 1.5x or any other x. If you can, then you're either very special, or possibly deluded (which I suppose is another form of special anyway).
It's called resolution independence. Any physically higher ppi is a pointless waste of battery life and graphics card/chip power.
Mind you, If you don't like Apple's resolution independence implementation, perhaps you should try Windows' train wreck of an implementation and get back to us.
Yep. Pretty sweet.
Exactly. I've been clamoring for 64GB and at least 6TB since before the 2016 models came out. I'm one of those cases. I got the maxed out 2017 (quad core, 16GB, 2TB) as soon as it arrived, until I swapped it for the maxed out 2019 15" a few months ago (couldn't wait). That doubled those specs at least (8-core, 32GB, 4TB). I will still upgrade to this pretty soon, and I'll max it out too (to double the RAM and storage again - 64GB, 8TB). And I'll use all of it, and what I use it for will pay for it pretty quickly. That's what this stuff is for. Not web browsing and email. Lol.
Yeah. That's a bummer. But physical escape key at least. Thank goodness.
Hmm... ok. And so how much does that 801.11ax and LPDDR4 RAM cost? How "Cheapskate" are Apple being here really? You really think it's a $ thing? Sigh...
Does any other laptop on the market have more than 16GB of LPDDR4 RAM? From everything I'm reading Coffee Lake (these 9th Gen chips) doesn't support it. Likewise, from everything I can find, the 802.11ax is an Intel limitation not Apple. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on this one. But I'm pretty sure this isn't a "Cheapskate" thing. Jeez.
Which is still bigger and heavier than this new 16" plus one or even two of these: https://www.hypershop.com/collections/usb-c-hubs/ . But hey, if the 2012 is the best choice for you, good for you.
My employer. And if I was still self employed like I used to be, I would. And so would other people for whom the power and versatility it provides helps them do their jobs which makes them much more money than that $6K in the time they'll own it. Problem?
Umm... huh? Buy what you need. What do you want more later for that you don't want it for now?
Huh? What's in this that isn't good value?
Is Wifi6 possible in these? Isn't that an Intel Coffee Lake limitation? Correct me if I'm wrong.Not trolling but I've seen multiple posts on no Wifi 6 so not what everyone has been asking
What do you want it for? As I said above it's a pointless waste of graphics processing power and battery life.You know what you were asking for, certainly. I'm just surprised you know what every single person on this forum was asking for.
Obviously you do not. I have been waiting for a higher PPI display for years, and Apple has not delivered.
Taking the smeg. Lol. If not for the "AUD" reference, that shows you're an Aussie. I'm in the US now, but born and bred in Australia. Australian Mac prices have always been inflated, since the birth of Apple. But so is everything else. Cars (except the Aussie Holdens and Fords), every computer brand, almost anything from almost anywhere in the world other than Australia is more expensive in Australia.
But these prices are comparable to the past. I spent A$9-10K on a Mac laptop more than once in the past. That's often been Apple's maxed out price in AUD. "No laptop is worth that"...? Depends what you're using it for. Sure it's not worth it to you, but how can you speak for everyone?
Relative specs of MacBooks and iBooks. Lol. Ok. If you say so.
This just makes no sense.
Still no extension cord... really? Most of us have countless spares of these lying around. Why should they include it so I can get yet another one I don't need? It is your comment that is a new level of lame. Agreed on the Touch Bar though.
Yep. TouchBar is annoying at best. I really wish they'd give us an option without it.
5 days makes you sick? Good grief. Return it. I see later you noted that your return window is January because of the holiday season so you're fine. But even if that wasn't the case - return it in the 14 day window and get another one a different color or slightly different spec or something, for another 14 days. Then swap that for the new one when they become available by then. And frankly, if you'd bought it from Apple and it came out 5 days after your return window expired, they'd let you swap it anyway. This - customer service - is one part of Apple that is frankly pretty amazing compared with most other companies.
No, they're all about the future. If they add more ports, I for one, hope it will be more TB3 ports. I think that's a processor limitation (PCI lanes) though, so it won't happen in the laptop till Intel changes that.
Ah. I see. So they should have taken more time to get both models ready (14 and 16) before releasing either of them? Right. Good call. Yep. Tim really screwed up there. /s
Why would you think Apple would stop soldering SSDs onto their logic boards? They had to do something with the keyboards, as it is costing them money in extended warranties and $400+ hardware replacements if even a single key failed. This hasn’t been happening with SSDs.
This is just nonsense. A laptop is just a damn tool. SSDs break so if your super heavy and excellent laptop breaks after 3 years of usage it can only be scrapped. Climate change, right to repair, longevity?
Each of my Macs was upgraded with new SSD/more RAM over the years And each of them had a second or third life.
There was a time one could grab its laptop and talk at a conference without an adapter and there was a time one could flash a SD card without an adapter.
Yes, developers, pen testers and a lot of other people need those features - the same group of people that demanded a physical escape key.
So Apple, take a step back to the models of 2012-2015 and call it „pro“. GPU, Keyboard and RAM is fine now.
If your ssd breaks you can have the main board replaced.
Just like back in the day when my “repairable” MacBook pros died because of bad solder on the GPU.
Yea lol, its just a keyboard. Tell that to all the people who had multiple key failures and so many on these forums who were desperately waiting for this redesign.
I get it, the money you spent on your flawed machine was a lot ... so the confirmation bias is strong.
Too expensive. The SSD of my 2012 MBP broke - so I grabbed a cheap third party SSD, installed it and gave it to my sister. It is just normal for an SSD to brake.
Totally agree with Detnator's comment above (#205), though I suspect that I am not quite as dependent on the extra power for income generation. Nonetheless, I'm also considering an upgrade, from my current early/mid-2019 version, but have a few questions:
- Does anyone have a reference as to the relative capabilities of the Radeon 5500 (as implemented by Apple in this machine) vs. the Vega 20? (I probably don't even push the limits of the Vega but I'm hoping to start learning more about neural networks & AI, and my understanding is that these can be very demanding on the GPU)
- Does the new thermal design keep the noise levels down? the current machine with an i9 seems to periodically have to spin up the fans to ridiculous levels while it doesn't seem to be doing anything heavy (the answer to this may have to wait until units are delivered)
- does this design still limit the display output on each side of the laptop? i.e. I find that when I'm using a triple-monitor 4K setup, I can't plug in both T3 cables on the same side because then it won't drive all three monitors properly; I would like to be able to use a vertical stand/dock (like the Henge dock) but if I have to plug in an extra cable on top then it kinda defeats the purpose [yes, I know this is a petty concern, but I like a clean desktop when possible]
An ssd has a fixed amount of writes/bytes that can be written. There is a Samsung tool (for Windows) that tells you how many writes are probably left on your Samsung ssd.
That's what I thought I saw as well, but I was hoping that I was mistaken.
The current one gets insanely loud at times as well, so maybe it's still better...
or maybe I'm just trying to convince myself
The Apple website suggests that it won't throttle as much (more power to the CPU for longer) so maybe that's a win?
Though this has fixed or improved pretty much everything I care about, I would still have to observe the top graphics configuration of this thing doesn't look like it's going to touch an RTX 2060, let alone the 2070 or 80. At best it looks like it might fall between a GTX 1650 and 1660 (though have an edge on RAM with 8GB vs 6). At that its significantly more expensive than a GTX 1660 (or even RTX 2060) laptop, though! So looks like if you're doing work that's heavily dependent on graphics performance, this still remains a poor option? (even if it's significantly better than the 15" model it replaces).
I feel like the last 3 years have given Apple a bit of a complex xD
A discrete GPU put into a MacBook Pro by apple has a fixed number of polygons it can render before the solder breaks and you get blue stripes on the screen.
In the end, any component soldered to the motherboard can break. Everything has a finite lifetime. Most people will be done with their MBP’s long before they wear out their SSDs.
LTE in iPhone, iPad and Apple Watch but not the MacBook Pro? WHY IS THAT?
Apple today introduced its widely rumored 16-inch MacBook Pro with a larger display and slimmer bezels, a new Magic Keyboard with a scissor mechanism and physical Esc key, up to 64GB of RAM, up to 8TB of SSD storage, AMD Radeon Pro 5000M graphics options, upgraded speakers and microphones, and more.
The new 16-inch MacBook Pro replaces the 15-inch MacBook Pro, which has been discontinued. It is possible the 15-inch model will appear in Apple's clearance store at some point, but it is not available at this time.
The new 16-inch MacBook Pro starts at $2,399 in the United States, consistent with the former 15-inch MacBook Pro. A maxed-out 16-inch MacBook Pro with a 2.4GHz 8-core Core i9 processor, 64GB of RAM, 8TB of SSD storage, and AMD Radeon Pro 5500M graphics runs $6,099 on Apple's online store.
Read more about the 16-inch MacBook Pro here.
The new 16-inch MacBook Pro is available to order today through Apple.com and the Apple Store app in many countries. It will be available in Apple Stores and select Apple Authorized Resellers in the United States later this week and is "coming soon" to stores around the world, according to Apple.
Article Link: 16-Inch MacBook Pro Replaces Discontinued 15-Inch Model, Pricing Ranges Between $2,399 and $6,099
Imagine Apple releases the iPhone 12 with 4TB storage. Priced accordingly. Can you see them complaining?
I assume Mojave has no chance of running on this. So sad. I will be stuck on Mojave for a long time due to all the apps I can't or won't update, like Photoshop I'll look into Catalina. I sooo wish I could get Mojave running on the new laptop. If anyone thinks that can be done do give a holler but it's my understanding that there is no reasonable way (if any) to do so.
SSDs break when you overwrite the total storage X times. So you can write 8 times as much data on an 8TB drive than on a 1TB drive if they are of the same quality.
Not without hackintoshing it (if that's even possible with the T2?)... PS you think you could bring me one of these end of next month? I've been very good this year 🤪