(2019) 16" is HOT & NOISY with an external monitor! :(

[Kung gu]

So if they clearly ignored some issues in the past what makes you think they will not ignore issues with the silicon machines? Which may pop up after some time?

Because it's their own sillicon and Apple can't blame AMD or Intel anymore and also for the fact that it would be embarrassing for Apple to have AS Macs with thermal issues.

They treat it more carefully than Intel Macs. Look at the Intel 2020 MBA. It was trash and overheats doing simple things.

On the hand look at M1 MBA. It's cool and does not overheat but actually is very powerful. The M1 is perfectly tuned.

 

[GumaRodak]

I agree wit you, still iam not talking only about thermals. What if other parts will have issues? We know it from the past.. like displays, keyboards etc…they are already som M1 machines highlights…anyway we discussing offtopic so i will not spam anymore

 

[b4rte]

Hello good people of MacRumours! I followed this thread almost since day 1 up until like page 140. Could someone please write a TL;DR if we had any new discoveries for opened lid? Thanks in advance ✌️✌️

 

[mihirdelirious]

Hello good people of MacRumours! I followed this thread almost since day 1 up until like page 140. Could someone please write a TL;DR if we had any new discoveries for opened lid? Thanks in advance ✌️✌️

I recommend reading from Pages 205.

TLDR: Monterey Beta 5 Update

I just tried the Monterey Beta 5 on my 16" MBP (6 core i7 2.6 Ghz/AMD 5300M/16GB). Note: I regularly open and clean the dust within.

1. Low Power Mode: Internal + External 4k Display -> ~6 Watt Idle. Turbo Boost automatically disable. Runs very cool. Fans ~1800 rpm. Battery life is significantly better even while running an external display.

2. Normal Mode: Internal + External 4k display -> ~14 Watt Idle. Runs a bit cooler than before. Fans ~2300 rpm.

Praise the Lord! The Low Power mode is the MVP here. I spent months fighting/arguing with Apple about this issue. I am still running Catalina and bought a Sonnet Puck eGPU to not waste any more time/money/energy fighting Apple. So..where are all those Apple Engineers & apologists who told me that the ~18W was 'expected behaviour'?
As a professional musician, I avoided Big Sur completely for reasons.. and wasn't planning on updating to Monterey either. The 6W in low power mode is the real deal for me, and so I plan to update when it's officially out.

I hope Apple does not revert the low power mode from the Final release of Monterey. But considering their arrogance and complete disregard for customers, there's always a chance that they could screw up the final release. I hope this is an intentional fix from Apple and not a random fix that just happened to work in this particular Beta. Fingers crossed.

Also, I am sure that very soon we'll find out some terminal commands to enable Turbo Boost in Low Power mode. So I am not really worried about the CPU performance.

Update: Monterey Beta 6 messed it up again. And it's back to 18W no matter what you do.

 

[DMG35]

I'm sure this has been answered before, but do these fan and heat issues still happen with the 5600M? I have the opportunity to trade my MacBook Pro and get the model with the 5600M with very little out of pocket but wasn't sure if that helped solve this issue.

 

[crossdog]

Obviously a software change can "fix" the problem by reducing the power fed to the GPU, while there have been no complaints here when using beta 5 on low power mode I am sure there must be a downside somewhere.

I am hopeful someone can come out with a solution like we have with "Turbo Boost" disable app.

 

[PeterJP]

Obviously a software change can "fix" the problem by reducing the power fed to the GPU, while there have been no complaints here when using beta 5 on low power mode I am sure there must be a downside somewhere.

I am hopeful someone can come out with a solution like we have with "Turbo Boost" disable app.

Hey, at least the good news is that now we know that it's a software issue. Some wizards may be able to pry out the differences between the betas and put it into a standalone tool. If it doesn't reappear in the final version of Monterey, at least.

 

[ihavesoldout]

I'm sure this has been answered before, but do these fan and heat issues still happen with the 5600M? I have the opportunity to trade my MacBook Pro and get the model with the 5600M with very little out of pocket but wasn't sure if that helped solve this issue.

Good question - My 5500m model was always at 18w no matter what. I just traded up to the 5600m. It idles at 5w and is quiet. The most I can get the GPU up to is 10-11w under moderate load (teams call + photoshop + web browsing) - the fans are at about 3400rpm.

 

[DMG35]

Good question - My 5500m model was always at 18w no matter what. I just traded up to the 5600m. It idles at 5w and is quiet. The most I can get the GPU up to is 10-11w under moderate load (teams call + photoshop + web browsing) - the fans are at about 3400rpm.

View attachment 1826638

Thank you, I'm going to go ahead and trade up for this as well. Appreciate the feedback.

 

[PeterJP]

Is there any way to install beta 4 or 5, but not beta 6, to get this functional low power mode?

 

[richinaus]

I'm sure this has been answered before, but do these fan and heat issues still happen with the 5600M? I have the opportunity to trade my MacBook Pro and get the model with the 5600M with very little out of pocket but wasn't sure if that helped solve this issue.

I had the exact same opportunity and don’t regret it at all. It still gets hot and the fans do come on, but not nearly to the extent of the other models. It’s a great computer.

 

[Kogut]

Where did you manage to trade your MBP for MBP with 5600M? Did somebody install MacOS Monterey Public beta and check watt usage?

 

[Hollycene]

This forum should be renamed to "victims of the 16 inch's". I'll lost all my hope for the proper solution if final monterey release will not fix it.

 

[skyrocketer]

Hi

 

[PeterJP]

This forum should be renamed to "victims of the 16 inch's". I'll lost all my hope for the proper solution if final monterey release will not fix it.

Same here. The news of beta 4 and 5 solving the problem raised my hopes. If this doesn't make it to the final version, I'll be selling it and getting something else. Probably a serious mac mini M1X for music and then something light for work where I don't need the horsepower.

 

[Minga089]

Same here. The news of beta 4 and 5 solving the problem raised my hopes. If this doesn't make it to the final version, I'll be selling it and getting something else. Probably a serious mac mini M1X for music and then something light for work where I don't need the horsepower.

So Apple did everything right in the end...

They basically can get away with everything (and they know it) because disappointed customers will still stay loyal and keep on buying Macs.

 

[JosepPont]

Same here. The news of beta 4 and 5 solving the problem raised my hopes. If this doesn't make it to the final version, I'll be selling it and getting something else. Probably a serious mac mini M1X for music and then something light for work where I don't need the horsepower.

We shouldn't buy any Apple products anymore.

 

[PeterJP]

We shouldn't buy any Apple products anymore.

As long as Windows has an MS-DOS command line or a wonky Linux VM, and Linux native cannot run pro apps (MS,Adobe), then I'm afraid I have no other choice.
(Edit) I forgot to mention that I just solidified my stake in Apple with Logic Pro as well...

 

[Hollycene]

Hey guys, does anybody know a way how to install a specific beta (Monterey Beta 4 / 5) on a mac? Or at least where to download this specific betas? I would like to test it for myself, I'm still on Catalina.

 

[Minga089]

Hi, I faced this problem since beginning. This is not specific to few laptops, but a common issue for all mac owners who has additional graphical card installed. As soon as you hook up a monitor, these laptops kick in the turbo boost even though you don't use any graphic intensive application. Bcoz of this, it rises internal temperature and fan kicks in, which results in noise.

To turn off turbo boost, please use this app. This is very easy to install and manage. After using this, I never had a problem.

Turbo Boost Switcher for OSX / macOS

Turbo Boost Switcher for macOS. Save battery of your Mac, cool your CPU and reduce fans noise

tbswitcher.rugarciap.com

Fun fact: My company replaced two laptops for me thinking that is a issue with those laptop.

You are getting some things confused here. The turbo boost comes from the CPU and the problem regarding external monitors is GPU related because the GPU draws 18W at idle (open lid + external monitor or 2 external screens).

 

[mihirdelirious]

Hi, I faced this problem since beginning. This is not specific to few laptops, but a common issue for all mac owners who has additional graphical card installed. As soon as you hook up a monitor, these laptops kick in the turbo boost even though you don't use any graphic intensive application. Bcoz of this, it rises internal temperature and fan kicks in, which results in noise.

To turn off turbo boost, please use this app. This is very easy to install and manage. After using this, I never had a problem.

Turbo Boost Switcher for OSX / macOS

Turbo Boost Switcher for macOS. Save battery of your Mac, cool your CPU and reduce fans noise

tbswitcher.rugarciap.com

Fun fact: My company replaced two laptops for me thinking that is a issue with those laptop.

Please stop spreading that non-sense/fake news. You clearly lack the technical & scientific understanding on this issue.

The TDP of the base model CPU (9750) is about 45 Watt at base clock & the 5300M is rated at around 50W.

Intel® Core™ i7-9750H Processor (12M Cache, up to 4.50 GHz) Product Specifications

Intel® Core™ i7-9750H Processor (12M Cache, up to 4.50 GHz) quick reference guide including specifications, features, pricing, compatibility, design documentation, ordering codes, spec codes and more.

ark.intel.com

AMD Radeon™ Pro 5000M Series

The Apple MacBook Pro is powered by AMD Radeon™ Pro 5000M Series graphics, which have 24 compute units and a memory speed of 12 Gpbs. Learn more.

www.amd.com

This means under max load on CPU & GPU (without turbo boost), the power consumption would be 45W+50W=95 Watt.
With turbo boost, the power consumption can go as high as 120W for a very short period of time.

1) The VRM chips on the 16 inch MacBook Pro are quite terrible (lack any active cooling) & barely manage around 55W of sustained power supply to CPU&GPU. By sustained, I mean after running for more than 20 minutes. With only the internal display, if you run any intense workload that maxes both the CPU & GPU, the VRM chips can supply as high as 120W of total power (battery+adapter) at the start. However, after a few minutes the VRM chips overheat and the 16" MBP prioritizes the GPU. This means the CPU can get throttled to as low as 0.8 GHz. However, this by itself is not an issue for most people as most don't max out the CPU & GPU at the same time. But...this is why the Thermal Pad mod can dramatically improve performance by letting the VRM chips sustain as high as 80-85W of Power.

2) When an external monitor is connected, the GPU by default draws 18W of power. Any extra load on the GPU causes even more power draw upto a total of 50W. This means less power available to the CPU and the CPU starts throttling below the base clock to as low as 0.8GHz (Kernel task occupies something obscene like 500-1200%).

3) If you install Xcode -> Instruments, you can disable cores of your Intel CPU. Turning my 6-core i7 into a 2-core i7 reduces the power draw by quite a bit, but the performance takes an absolutely massive hit. Only recommended for the absolute desperate (who might wanna just surf the web or type emails) with an External monitor+Internal Monitor setup. This is not fix kernel_task under full load though.

4) Monterey Beta 4 & 5 did fix it. Apple wouldn't accept it, but the Engineering department clearly knows after hearing at least 100s of complaints against the 16 inch MBP. Obviously, nothing can fix the VRM throttling I mentioned in point 1 that occurs when you max out the load on GPU+CPU. That's just poor engineering when they provide no cooling mechanism for the VRM chips. I don't see Apple ever accepting their design mistake unless they face a class action lawsuit. In that case, Apple would just announce "A very small percentage of our 16" MacBook Pro customers might face diminished performance under heavy workload & external display. The vast majority of our 16" MBP customers are perfectly fine with no problems whatsoever."

P.S. Regarding the 99 Watt-hour battery & 96W power adapter. 99 Watt-hour is the battery's capacity: the total energy. 96 W is the Power the adapter can supply. The battery can supply additional power and the Laptop can consume as much as 130W total (in which case the battery will start draining slightly).

 

[therealbtc]

Living through 16" overheating hell for over a year I created topic on reddit, should class-action lawsuit be filed against apple for the overheating problem: https://www.reddit.com/r/macbook/comments/pksg9n Please contribute, this may be a cornerstone for creating a lawsuit, which apple undoubtedly deserves for the 16" mess

 

[PeterJP]

Living through 16" overheating hell for over a year I created topic on reddit, should class-action lawsuit be filed against apple for the overheating problem: https://www.reddit.com/r/macbook/comments/pksg9n Please contribute, this may be a cornerstone for creating a lawsuit, which apple undoubtedly deserves for the 16" mess

It would seem the fix in beta 4 and 5 indicates the problem is actually fixable in software... Can I join as a non-US resident?

 

[Minga089]

Living through 16" overheating hell for over a year I created topic on reddit, should class-action lawsuit be filed against apple for the overheating problem: https://www.reddit.com/r/macbook/comments/pksg9n Please contribute, this may be a cornerstone for creating a lawsuit, which apple undoubtedly deserves for the 16" mess

You should re-write that text imo, because the problem mainly applies to external monitors when used open lid. There is no problem in clamshell mode and for those rare cases where Radeon High Side is 18W even in clamshell mode there is the HiDPI fix that reduces Radeon High Side to well below 10W.

 

[gbdavid]

To all those of you that are still suffering with this mess....

I sold that 16" noisy oven, and replaced with a mac mini M1, problem solved... never again I heard the fans, and never again my mac got hot... Also it performs much faster and at 1/4 of the price

I guess the 16" should just be deemed obsolete now, as Apple is not willing to even acknowledge the issue exists...