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The slow motion video that was linked in post #79 is mine - https://gfycat.com/GreenLegitimateElephantseal
I do see a tiny bit of lag in scrolling webpages and UI animations and it's not bad but it's simply annoying. Are you guys saying you notice no difference in smoothness when using the integrated GPU compared to the Radeon ? Cause to my eyes when using the 460 it's definitely smoother compared to the HD530.

The lag's certainly present.

Many have already pointed that the lag is real.

It's more obvious in certain scenarios** -- Mission control after not invoking it for a long time or when you set up fast scrolling (Accessibility -> Trackpad -> Scroll speed as fast and have inertia setup) and when the scrolling comes to a stop there's a stuttery stop and Chrome is incredibly bad and Parallels IE or Chrome browser is horrendous.

So for those that don't notice it, it's likely you are on a dGPU OR there are differences in iGPU performances for the same make OR you haven't compared the scrolling side-by-side to a Mac that did not have this issue and think this is just how it is.

It's still not clear to me whether this is a software/hardware issue though and whether the new Beta OS updates have fixed it. I plan on trying once my Time Machine back up completes.

** All these scenarios are MUCH better on my MBP 2011 with SSD and 16GB RAM. The iGPU lag on my new 2016 MBP is much much worse than my 2011 MBP with iGPU. Different resolutions and scaling? Yes. But remember that the 2011 MBP shipped with that GPU and is running on a 5 year new OS i.e. Sierra 10.12.1 (latest version).
 
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my base 15 occasionally lags too in chrome, safari and menus in OSX and mostly everywhere on windows 10 via parallels; i initially suspected "better touch tool" but that wasn't it...used a suggested fix for older MBs with chrome scrolling issues by disabling the two finger fwd/bck swipes and it's much more tolerable but still happens...

edit: also adjusted scroll speed in accessibility and enabled "scroll line" w/ "one line" in windows settings.
 
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It's more obvious in certain scenarios** -- Mission control after not invoking it for a long time or when you set up fast scrolling (Accessibility -> Trackpad -> Scroll speed as fast and have inertia setup) and when the scrolling comes to a stop there's a stuttery stop ....

I am having very choppy scrolling on 2016 MBP 13". Usually most pronounced when starting to scroll slowly, it will sometimes skip a few lines. This is present on both internal screen as well as driving an external 23" Cinema Display. The 2015 MBP 13" did not exhibit this behaviour.
 
Glad to have found this thread, I thought it was just me. It's more noticeable if you go to youtube and try scrolling up and down (at least that's where I first noticed this). Probably the same result where there's a lot of graphics. Using base 15" at default resolution.
 
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I am having very choppy scrolling on 2016 MBP 13". Usually most pronounced when starting to scroll slowly, it will sometimes skip a few lines. This is present on both internal screen as well as driving an external 23" Cinema Display. The 2015 MBP 13" did not exhibit this behaviour.

is this done on same scaled resolution on both MBP ? which scaled resolution you used ?
 
People should measure these things in terms of frame rates (we used to have a utility for this when OSX was young). Over the years we have seen that often these issues (newer machine is slower than older machine) are down to individual perception. If you want to 'see' something is jerkier than before it's perfectly possible to shape perception to fit beliefs.

I'm not seeing any 'objective' performance decrease except in some areas (folder grid view from the Dock...which is a silly view anyway) when scaling is set to maximum, which far exceeds the native screen resolution.

Quartz is a very intense drawing method and has never been as fast as Windows. Some apps like Chrome don't obey Apple's guidelines and have their own rendering engine. Bear than in mind when adjusting your screen resolution and scaling.
 
People should measure these things in terms of frame rates (we used to have a utility for this when OSX was young). Over the years we have seen that often these issues (newer machine is slower than older machine) are down to individual perception. If you want to 'see' something is jerkier than before it's perfectly possible to shape perception to fit beliefs.

I'm not seeing any 'objective' performance decrease except in some areas (folder grid view from the Dock...which is a silly view anyway) when scaling is set to maximum, which far exceeds the native screen resolution.

Quartz is a very intense drawing method and has never been as fast as Windows. Some apps like Chrome don't obey Apple's guidelines and have their own rendering engine. Bear than in mind when adjusting your screen resolution and scaling.

This is very true. I got my 2016 15" a few days ago, and after reading about UI lag, I tried the Mission Control. While there was nor real stuttering, I thought I could see this "lower framerate" someone mentioned. Then I forced the MBP to use the dGPU and it was the same. Then I took my old MBP to compare, and animations looked the same. Then the new MBP even seemed better with both GPUs. Then I compared it to my iMac 5K, and again, it was hard to tell.

Then I figured I had no idea what I was seeing and that I was imagining it all. Also, Finder/Safari scrolling is super-smooth on both iGPU and dGPU.

Either way, if there is any lower framerate in animations, it is on every Mac. There is no specific UI lag on the new MBPs. At least on the 15" and I bet the 13" is the same (in fact, the 13" has a more powerfull iGPU running a lower res, so I don't see how there could be). But of course, if you come expecting to find it, you'll imagine seeing it.

That's not to say that some users don't have actual lag due to some other issue.
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The lag's certainly present.

Many have already pointed that the lag is real.

It's more obvious in certain scenarios** -- Mission control after not invoking it for a long time or when you set up fast scrolling (Accessibility -> Trackpad -> Scroll speed as fast and have inertia setup) and when the scrolling comes to a stop there's a stuttery stop and Chrome is incredibly bad and Parallels IE or Chrome browser is horrendous.

First of all, if you read the topics to that post you linked, you'll see that there was no real conclusion, in fact, even the OP mentioned things got fixed after a restart. I am certainly not experiencing anything even remotely close to that video.

I did side-by-side comparisons of my 2016 MBP 15" with my 2013 MBP 15" and with my iMac 5K. I also used gfxCardStatus to verify that I'm using the integrated GPU (and I also checked iStat Menus to see which GPU was getting warm). Then I did comparisons with the dGPU, turning off Automatic graphics switching in Energy Saver. I had a lot of windows open, including one large Photoshop file, Messages, Safari running a graphically intensive page, Mail, Finder and Evernote. I was running the default scaling (meaning it's rendering at higher resolution than the screen).

Now, as a long time gamer, I can tell the difference between framerates. I couldn't detect any noticeable lag, and if there is any, it's present with both iGPU and dGPU and on all other Macs.

Now, you mentioned "Mission control after not invoking it for a long time". This happened several times, with lots of apps open. But you know what - it happens twice as much on my iMac 5K and it happened on my previous MBP too. This has nothing to do with GPU performance (if it did, it wouldn't go away on the second try) - it has something to do with the system polling apps for their current state. In face, it is very rare on my MBP, while it is almost constant on my iMac, when I have a lot of apps open.

The new 2016 MBPs don't have any lag compared to other Macs.

Edit: just tried the iGPU in Chrome. Tried artstation.com, theverge.com and anandtech.com - no lag, smooth scrolling.
 
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Good for you.

For me, the lag's absolutely there and is very noticeable between my 2011 MBP and this one. The Mission Control scenario is noticeably worse on the new MBP than my old one.

Look at the resolution difference and set them identically. The former isn't even retina.
 
Look at the resolution difference and set them identically. The former isn't even retina.

Yeah but 5 years on you would expect there to be a totally smooth experience, but it isn't. The hardware has more than caught up with the retina screens but the OS optimization is lacking. It is a software issue and Apple does not seem to be addressing it. All retina macbooks lag which is an utter joke.

For example, I have tried maximizing and minimizing an Xcode window with an empty project open, no other user launched applications running, and it always stutters like some 1980s machine.

Chrome also always lags with any household website open. I am not talking about scrolling, just moving and resizing windows around.
 
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Look at the resolution difference and set them identically. The former isn't even retina.

These are default resolutions on both systems. If you are saying that the MBP 2016 is retina and therefore offers a poorer experience out of the box compared to the 2011 MBP, then maybe Apple should have put a beefier GPU or optimized the software further to offset it.

I may end up returning this MBP to explore other options. But I do love certain aspects of it. I have spent far too much time trying to make this work what with all the battery issues and UI lags compared to any of my previous MBP purchases. That's what makes this purchase so frustrating.
 
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Yeah but 5 years on with the latest hardware you would expect there to be a totally smooth experience, but there isn't.

Not really because Quartz is its own beast, has always been hard on GPUs and is harder to render now than ever before. It used to be based on lower resolution assets and fixed sizes on lower resolution screens.

Ever since the Yosemite redesign it is now based on much higher resolution assets and vector based with even more accelerated translucency effects on retina screens. The newer machines go a step further and render two of the highest settings at a resolution that is higher than the native resolution of the screen.
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These are default resolutions on both systems. If you are saying that the MBP 2016 is retina and therefore offers a poorer experience out of the box compared to the 2011 MBP, then maybe Apple should have put a beefier GPU or optimized the software further to offset it.

See above. If you want a beefier GPU in a slim case you'll just end up pissing of those who are never happy enough with battery life or heat or throttling. As long as there are enough people with first world problems you can't make them all happy.
 
Not really because Quartz is its own beast, has always been hard on GPUs and is harder to render now than ever before. It used to be based on lower resolution assets and fixed sizes on lower resolution screens.

Ever since the Yosemite redesign it is now based on much higher resolution assets and vector based with even more accelerated translucency effects on retina screens. The newer machines go a step further and render two of the highest settings at a resolution that is higher than the native resolution of the screen.

I am not an expert but why is it that on windows machines even on insanely high resolutions there is no lag at all doing simple animations such as min/maximizing? It is smooth as butter. Why can't Apple optimize its UI the same way? Heck , windows 10 on bootcamp runs a lot smoother than mac OS.
 
I am not an expert but why is it that on windows machines even on insanely high resolutions there is no lag at all doing simple animations such as min/maximizing? It is smooth as butter. Why can't Apple optimize its UI the same way?

Different rendering technology. Windows uses Direct X and does some clever fading tricks so that it doesn't need to render every frame when you minimise or maximise.

Quartz is based on PDF, which as you know has historically been intensive. Best to watch Steve Jobs video when he introduced Quartz and the first theme Aqua.
 
Different rendering technology. Windows uses Direct X and does some clever fading tricks so that it doesn't need to render every frame when you minimise or maximise.

Quartz is based on PDF, which as you know has historically been intensive. Best to watch Steve Jobs video when he introduced Quartz and the first theme Aqua.

Okay so they use a less efficient rendering engine. Understanding the constraints isn't going to make the experience any better for me. At the end of the day it results in a poor UI experience for the consumer. It plain sucks.

I just hope they fix this issue soon or I will probably get back to windows.
 
Okay so they use a less efficient rendering engine. Understanding the constraints isn't going to make the experience any better for me. At the end of the day it results in a poor UI experience for the consumer. It plain sucks.

I just hope they fix this issue soon or I will probably get back to windows.

We just find ways to work around it.

For example, full screen mode and virtual desktops (spaces). This means the concept of window resizing is redundant (as it should be)

Use Gestures to multitask between spaces.

Hide the Dock and Menu bar. It's a pointless distraction to be visible all the time.

Don't use 'Grid view' with folders in the Dock. Those icons use very large image assets.
 
We just find ways to work around it.

For example, full screen mode and virtual desktops (spaces). This means the concept of window resizing is redundant (as it should be)

Use Gestures to multitask between spaces.

Hide the Dock and Menu bar. It's a pointless distraction to be visible all the time.

Don't use 'Grid view' with folders in the Dock. Those icons use very large image assets.

Or even easier solution is just stop using the new macbook pro and return it. Why come up with complicated workarounds to make machine smooth?
 
We just find ways to work around it.

For example, full screen mode and virtual desktops (spaces). This means the concept of window resizing is redundant (as it should be)

Use Gestures to multitask between spaces.

Hide the Dock and Menu bar. It's a pointless distraction to be visible all the time.

Don't use 'Grid view' with folders in the Dock. Those icons use very large image assets.

Using fullscreen mode has obvious drawbacks. I do use multiple desktops and switch between them quite frequently, even then I find using multiple windows on the same screen with desktop icons showing useful.

At the end of the day, such a premium product should not offer lagging performance when it comes to performing basic tasks and that too right out of the box. There just is no excuse for it. I don't care if Apple is using some complicated rendering engine, they should have resolved this issue by now. Retina screens came out a long time ago and this problem still persists.
 
Should I use the dedicated GPU all the time then? I have the 455. Will it make the laptop run hot all the time and reduce lifespan? Btw it's always connected to AC power on my end...
 
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