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2017 MacBook Pro 13 non-TB Review
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Yes I use a mix of chrome Firefox and Safari.
The problem isn't isolated to chrome or flash.
Running a VM causes it
Like I said this wasn't a problem with the 2015 model nor with my Lenovo ThinkPad.
The problem isn't isolated to chrome or flash.
Running a VM causes it
Like I said this wasn't a problem with the 2015 model nor with my Lenovo ThinkPad.
The fact that something expensive/high end needs maintenance doesn't mean it's bad. A formula 1 car needs its tyres changing every 20 minutes, and the engines never do more than a few hundred miles. That doesn't mean they are crap cars, it means they are precision machines that require high maintenance. If you want to own a wafer thin powerful laptop, you have to be realistic about its cooling properties. That's all people are trying to tell you. Sure call it bad design if you like, but if silence is more important to you than power buy an iPad or a desktop computer.
It's meant to be a pro device. That means it must be up to reasonable workloads.
Like the 2015.
Thin and fashionable is the non pro macbook.
It's not the noise that bothers me - it's the overheating and glue heat damage, and failing keybaord.
We'll have to agree to disagree on this one 
with all due respect, watching iPlayer in clamshell mode is not pro use. I run Logic, Audition, Photoshop etc (pro apps) on mine in clamshell mode and most of the time the fan is silent. When the fan does come on I open the lid to help it cool, no big deal.
[doublepost=1509466421][/doublepost]And just to echo what others have been saying about isolated incidents, here's threads exactly like yours about the 2015 MBP and MS Surface Pro:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/2015-macbook-pro-overheating-options.1858537/
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us...t/1efa253a-f7f2-486b-a891-5633738b8532?auth=1
with all due respect, watching iPlayer in clamshell mode is not pro use. I run Logic, Audition, Photoshop etc (pro apps) on mine in clamshell mode and most of the time the fan is silent. When the fan does come on I open the lid to help it cool, no big deal.[doublepost=1509466421][/doublepost]And just to echo what others have been saying about isolated incidents, here's threads exactly like yours about the 2015 MBP and MS Surface Pro:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/2015-macbook-pro-overheating-options.1858537/
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us...t/1efa253a-f7f2-486b-a891-5633738b8532?auth=1
Update 26 - 31/10/2017
[doublepost=1509470803][/doublepost]
so an £1800 MacBook Pro 13 from 2017 can't handle iplayer?
- Yesterday the Apple customer support rep on this long case promised to update me by the end of today, and also promised to discuss the refund route internal.
- I heard nothing so rang up. She had not done anything and needed time to review the notes.
- The conversation was back to square 1 as if none of the weeks of testing and travel and providing evidence of the issues had happened. Extremely frustrating.
- She had not done anything about the refund - despite her promise yesterday to "discuss" it at least. So she lied to me - I can't call it anything else.
- She said she can't open the link to the videos on the web - that's not my problem, broken internet access to this forum and youtube is theirs. Why should it be an excuse?
- I had to call 3 times to get through. So when she finally suggested I speak with a technical senior person I wanted to be sure he called. I was assured he would ring in 5 mins. I said I'd ring her back if it didn't happen.
- It didn't happen. And I can't get through to either of them. 24 calls later... still no success.
so an £1800 MacBook Pro 13 from 2017 can't handle iplayer?
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Update 27 - 31/10/2017 - Beyond Max RPM
- Here is the fan apparently breaking past the 7200 maximum speed!
- Fans sound like a rocket!
- Just watching BBC iplayer on a 4K60hz external display
- Yet apple still not admitting something is wrong
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Update 28 - 01/11/2017
- Yesterday I used the Twitter @applesupport to ask how I could complain about the handling of my case, and in particular about the person assigned to my case, who has proven herself to be incompetent and in cases lying or saying things which proved false (see previous updates for specifics).
- They raised a new Case ID and gave me a number to follow up on. So today I did.
- initially I got a very enthusiastic person happy to help, and acknowledging the problems with the 2017, and recommending I get a 2015 15" model. However after he came back off hold his tone changed. My complaint case was to be handled by ... the same rep.
- This is ridiculous - how can a complaint about a customer service rep be handled by ... the same rep! That is not independent review of complaints. I must say I am flabbergasted. The person on the call agreed this was crazy but said he had to follow what he was told to do.
- In the end I managed to get a new person to talk to and she has raised the new case as a complaint to the previous support rep's manager. (Yes, the case was not a complaint even though twitter support said it was!).
Update 27 - 31/10/2017 - Beyond Max RPM
- Here is the fan apparently breaking past the 7200 maximum speed!
- Fans sound like a rocket!
- Just watching BBC iplayer on a 4K60hz external display
- Yet apple still not admitting something is wrong
I'm having the same problem on my mbp ntb with the same specs as yours (16gb ram, core i5) which I bought 2 weeks ago.
When playing a simple streaming it goes to 7200rpm. When I try playing the exact same streaming on a 2014 MacBook air the single fan hits 1200 max, there's definitely something wrong.
I work on a windows 8.1virtual machine and it compiles really fast in the beginning but when the fan kicks in it feels as the cpu throttles. Also it just forces me to work with headphones because the high pitched noise is almost always present when I'm working on the vm.
Thank you for your updates, I will follow them and post here if I find any solution (called support but they are useless for the moment).
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Thanks lazuligo
It's encouraging to hear confirmation that this is a design issue not an isolated incident.
I have been in lots of discussions with Apple building a case. It would be extremely helpful if you could post evidence here - screenshots of fan speed, and maybe a video of you can.
Ignore all the commented apologising for Apple. This is a serious flaw.
Okay so I tried to run 2 hd youtube videos at the same time and here is the result (nothing more was running in the background).
I will try to redo the test on my mb air and see the difference.
One thing I noticed is that it's not always doing this, it seems that a cpu over 100% in activity monitor makes the temperature very high.
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Thanks for sharing your evidence too.
I was speaking with Apple again yesterday and they are watching this thread.
Seem weird to me why Apple would let you run through all these pains without doing anything positive. 1800 GBP is a minimal cost for a company like Apple, and it's not like you're going to spend it on a Window laptop. Is Apple UK customer service that inferior to the US's?
The actual evidence of how UK Apple behave seems to suggest they are that bad.
Personally I was surprised as I had expected great quality and service.
You realise none of this is evidence right? You need to take your computer to an independent recognised testing facility if you actually wanted some closure on this. Collecting information from forum users is circumstantial at best, biased/flawed at worst, and that just means you're leaving a very wide door open to argue against yourself. If however you had solid irrefutable evidence that your computer is broken and is unable to perform as advertised, then go to an actual ombudsman and make some progress.
Nothing on this forum will realistically help your case, and will likely only further your infuriation. As you won't get anything from call centre staff who are trained to appease and agree, never criticise or contradict. So of course they will always sooth, however if you want actual resolution, go to an ombudsman.
I can't seem to find the correct ombudsman in the UK. If you can recommend one I'd really appreciate it.
The ones linked from the UK gov's website result in channelling us to Apple support, or state that Apple don't cooperate with that resolution service. eg ..
I can't seem to find the correct ombudsman in the UK. If you can recommend one I'd really appreciate it.
The ones linked from the UK gov's website result in channelling us to Apple support, or state that Apple don't cooperate with that resolution service. eg ..
I'd imagine the consumer ombudsman, however your best bet is to go to Citizens Advice if you feel you have a genuine complaint.
As to the resolution I think you should be realistic, whether you take that advice or not doesn't bother me. At best you'll get a refund, more likely you'll get an apology, at worst you'll get nothing but tens of hours wasted and stressed out with everything.
At the end of the day the computer performs as expected, it is only that your expectations are higher. Apple have made attempts to correct any faults and seemingly have performed a lot of repairs on your computer, so given the financial cost that they have incurred in attempting to resolve the issue and the subjective complaint, it is unlikely you would be able to prove your outcome to your satisfaction. If it was a company that just shut the door on you and did nothing you are in a far stronger position to argue.
As I said earlier you would need verifiable independent evidence that backed up your claim, and you need to be very specific about your claim. Simply saying "It runs hot" is not a complaint, it's a subjective opinion. If you had another identical unit which did not do the same, then you can say there is something wrong with yours, but it needs to be identical in every way and tested under the same circumstance. If you feel it should not get warm at all then you need to prove why, suggesting your phone/tablet does it without warming is not enough as it's different technology. You would need a very similar computer to run the tests.
However crucially in all of this is the feeling that it getting hot is subjective, it is not malfunctioning and is not overheating. It is operating within stated parameters and so there is nothing misleading occurring with stated functions. If you tried to complain about any of this, it'll just get thrown straight back at you.
Collecting information on an internet forum is one place to start. But I would be concerned that all you're doing is validating your viewpoint by ignoring opinions that differ to yours, this is just further entrenching you into your belief. I'd guess it's becoming quite stressful not getting anywhere, going around in circles, and yet being fully adamant you are right.
Take or leave the advice but it'd be far healthier to just drop it entirely and either enjoy your computer, or sell it and buy a different one. I say this purely because I personally can't see an end that will fully satisfy you on this matter (The longer this goes on the higher your expectations are becoming), at least not without spending money on collecting independent evidence or court fees, you'll end up spending a lot more than you would if you just sell it now and move on.
Thanks for taking the time to comment. I respectfully disagree.
It is not unreasonable to expect a £1800 premium "pro" laptop to be able to cope with playing Netflix at fullscreen on a 4k display. Especially as the previous 2015 generation could do it without any problems.
I also don't think the heat damaging the display panel adhesive in clamshell mode, with apple acknowledged, is within normal or expected operating specifications.
I understand my complaints to Tim Cook have been taken notice of.
Did Apple replace the damaged screen? If they did then you reported a defect, which they repaired/replaced for you - that's all within reasonable grounds for a company. If they did nothing, then did they prove this was your fault and not a defect?
You need to get out of the notion of the cost of the machine being equivalent to performance. You could have paid £200 or £2000 for it, it makes absolutely no difference and is a dead end of arguing. You should be thinking that a computer with these specifications should have no problem, not just because it cost X amount.
Best of luck with it, all I'm saying is try settle. If they offer a replacement or anything just take it as you'll be going around this debate for way too many hours than it's worth - don't be expecting a miracle CSR. Even if they gave you a full refund now wouldn't you still want more for all the time you've put into it for example?
The temps Shawn on your screenshot are well within normal operating parameters especially for a thin light laptop outputting 4K video.
You clearly have little understanding of the limits of current technology and thermal design, and have made some erroneous assumptions.
I hope they give you the money back so you can see how nothing else you buy with a similar design, TDP and components does any better.
You clearly have little understanding of the limits of current technology and thermal design, and have made some erroneous assumptions.
I hope they give you the money back so you can see how nothing else you buy with a similar design, TDP and components does any better.
Thanks - I hope they do too. Then I can get back to the 2015 which worked fine.
If there are enough people who have this problem maybe Apple will look into it. The problem is, I would imagine it would have to be a lot of cases of excessively loud fans for it to be statistically significant for Apple. A few (or more) cases on forums are unlikely to do the trick, especially because it is anecdotal evidence.
For example, I ran two HD videos in two Safari windows along with Axure RP, Adobe Brackets, and Airmail running and the fan on my 2016 nTB was at 0 RPMs. I've attached a photo of this. My 2016 nTB doesn't really run any hotter or cooler in my experience from any other Mac I've had.
I really hope this can be resolved for those still facing issues though.
For example, I ran two HD videos in two Safari windows along with Axure RP, Adobe Brackets, and Airmail running and the fan on my 2016 nTB was at 0 RPMs. I've attached a photo of this. My 2016 nTB doesn't really run any hotter or cooler in my experience from any other Mac I've had.
I really hope this can be resolved for those still facing issues though.
Update - 29 03/11/2017
- This week I spoke to four Apple people:
- the main customer service rep
- a new customer service person abut the complaint I raised about this cases handling (eg the lies, see above to evidence)
- finally a technical person from engineering who only offered to repeat what was already done
- and someone from "executive liaison" who, according to the first email, is looking at the case as a result of my letter to Tim Cook.
- After the usual many calls and voicemails I finally spoke to this executive liaison yesterday, who apologised for all that has happened. Yes, a public apology - and therefore an acknowledgment that what has happened is wrong, with Apple culpable. He promised to get back to me today.
- Today didn't get a call from him at 2pm as promised, so I rang him. Voicemail. We talked later. All he could suggest was taking it into a store again.
- I expressed extreme frustration. Why? Several reasons:
- I have been on 3 journeys already to Apple centres already - at huge expense to myself as well as loss of time and business.
- Every time I have very strenuously sought assurance that they would actually recreate the scenario that causes the problem. Every time I have been given that assurance, And every time they have proved to have lied to me.
- This "executive liaison" could no understand why I might be less than keen to do it again a fourth time.
- I found it particularly rude that he kept talking over me.
- So again Apple's process has cost everyone - me and them - lots of time and money - and no progress.
- I asked the rep who was handling the complain for an update - because she promised to do that earlier in the week, I have not had they yet.
- Also useful was someone else who has posted evidence of the same poor thermal design [link].
I went to the store yesterday and asked for a replacement, I was lucky they acknowledged the problem and even told me it wasn't normal at all.
I will receive the new Mac in two weeks but I'm still a little bit afraid that it won't change much because of my personal usage which is sometimes quite intensive (code compile, vm, etc...). When I think I used to do that with a 4 years old pc which was more than 2 times less powerful and which didn't get hot at all...
But I really love my mbp ntb and I'll still have 48 hours on reception to decide if it's really what I need, else I'll try to negotiate the upgrade to tb and the famous extra fan (why didn't they put it on the ntb as well??!!).
I will receive the new Mac in two weeks but I'm still a little bit afraid that it won't change much because of my personal usage which is sometimes quite intensive (code compile, vm, etc...). When I think I used to do that with a 4 years old pc which was more than 2 times less powerful and which didn't get hot at all...
But I really love my mbp ntb and I'll still have 48 hours on reception to decide if it's really what I need, else I'll try to negotiate the upgrade to tb and the famous extra fan (why didn't they put it on the ntb as well??!!).