eric_n_dfw
macrumors 68000
Not true. While I agree that I don't think an AMD/Intel version of OS X will come out, not every line of code would need to change. In fact, for Cocoa app's very little code if any would need to change.
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970 Machines Assembled/Sealed?
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Frobozz
macrumors 65816
I could be wrong, but I don't think the machines will need 10.3 to run a 970. A couple of threads in this forum have indicated otherwise. It seems to me that a simple recompile of 10.2.6 would suffice to "hardware enable" the 970. Obviously, the 970 will run best on a 64bit optimized 10.3 system, but it's by no means a requirement.
So LoopRumors said the 970 chips were shipping to Taiwan and MacWhispers said the new 15" Al books were sitting waiting for 970 chips. Seems to be a convergence of rumors here.
As far as this being too early for Apple to start stockpiling machines, the rumor doesn't give us numbers. they may just be trickling off the line. It may take four or five weeks of production to have enough ready to meet initial demand (40,000?).
Finally, do you have any idea how hard it is to orchestrate all of the designers, engineers and vendors schedules in order to have a new product come out at a certain time? I have a hard time getting my expense reports done on time.😱
The question raised above about the OS is good. Panther won't be ready till the fall. Will these run something like 10.2.7 in 32 bit mode until Panther comes along with 64 bit operation?
As far as this being too early for Apple to start stockpiling machines, the rumor doesn't give us numbers. they may just be trickling off the line. It may take four or five weeks of production to have enough ready to meet initial demand (40,000?).
Finally, do you have any idea how hard it is to orchestrate all of the designers, engineers and vendors schedules in order to have a new product come out at a certain time? I have a hard time getting my expense reports done on time.😱
The question raised above about the OS is good. Panther won't be ready till the fall. Will these run something like 10.2.7 in 32 bit mode until Panther comes along with 64 bit operation?
Re: Supermac!
Apple line of computers(Apple II+, Apple IIe, etc.)
Quadra
Newton
Performa
Laserwriter
Workgroup Server
Quite a few actually(percentagewise) as far as Apple's more significant products over the years in the eyes of Apple's targetted markets. Someone could make a case for some of that being whole model lines being discontinued due to transition or poor sales but the same can be stated for PowerMac. I merely pointed out the more significant names that Apple has used. There are others out there like duo and centris among others but I don't believe they ever got entrenched like the above I listed as a real "brandname" that the target audience could keep in their head. Remember PowerMacs have gotten negtive publicity and bad sales for awhile now for being too slow compared to others in the same markets. A new name can help sell systems if the performance is there.
Apple line of computers(Apple II+, Apple IIe, etc.)
Quadra
Newton
Performa
Laserwriter
Workgroup Server
Quite a few actually(percentagewise) as far as Apple's more significant products over the years in the eyes of Apple's targetted markets. Someone could make a case for some of that being whole model lines being discontinued due to transition or poor sales but the same can be stated for PowerMac. I merely pointed out the more significant names that Apple has used. There are others out there like duo and centris among others but I don't believe they ever got entrenched like the above I listed as a real "brandname" that the target audience could keep in their head. Remember PowerMacs have gotten negtive publicity and bad sales for awhile now for being too slow compared to others in the same markets. A new name can help sell systems if the performance is there.
Sol
macrumors 68000
Some cracks in this rumour
You are very right! So far Apple's invitations for the WWDC state that OS X.3 will be previewed. Considering that a 970 PowerMac would feature a redesigned motherboard it would most certainly need a major OS update in order to boot up. Frankly I can't see how these computers could be packaged and wrapped up without OS X.3 being ready.
You are very right! So far Apple's invitations for the WWDC state that OS X.3 will be previewed. Considering that a 970 PowerMac would feature a redesigned motherboard it would most certainly need a major OS update in order to boot up. Frankly I can't see how these computers could be packaged and wrapped up without OS X.3 being ready.
random acts of senseless thinking
does no one else think that apple will come out with these new 970s, and continue to keep the g4 towers?
all i ever read is gripe after gripe about how apple needs a low cost tower for the mid-level consumer. would this not be a pristine time for that?
it's obvious that this move to ibm is not going to usurp motorola's role in apple for some time, so why not just drop the prices on the current mdd towers and continue production -- marketing them alongside (( slightly above )) the imacs, but drastically below the xMac (( you know that's probably going to be the new calling card )).
perhaps i am a hopeless dreamer, but i've always drooled over macs. the first one i remember was an early quadra (( i'm not that old )). apple has always surprised me, whether it be good or bad, it's always a surprise.
so maybe this will be the biggest surprise. maybe these 970s will be the blow to the g4's confidence that is needed to drop the price on current towers. does anyone else see the niche market for inexpensive towers in apple? it would fill that void that switchers see when they compare what they're used to (( read: expandibility )) to what they can afford (( imac )).
sorry, didn't mean to run off on a tangent, but normally i just kind of sit back and read (( and ask for help 🙂 )), i don't tend to jump into the arguments.
---perhaps this is the reincarnation of the quadra.............xQuadra 🙄
does no one else think that apple will come out with these new 970s, and continue to keep the g4 towers?
all i ever read is gripe after gripe about how apple needs a low cost tower for the mid-level consumer. would this not be a pristine time for that?
it's obvious that this move to ibm is not going to usurp motorola's role in apple for some time, so why not just drop the prices on the current mdd towers and continue production -- marketing them alongside (( slightly above )) the imacs, but drastically below the xMac (( you know that's probably going to be the new calling card )).
perhaps i am a hopeless dreamer, but i've always drooled over macs. the first one i remember was an early quadra (( i'm not that old )). apple has always surprised me, whether it be good or bad, it's always a surprise.
so maybe this will be the biggest surprise. maybe these 970s will be the blow to the g4's confidence that is needed to drop the price on current towers. does anyone else see the niche market for inexpensive towers in apple? it would fill that void that switchers see when they compare what they're used to (( read: expandibility )) to what they can afford (( imac )).
sorry, didn't mean to run off on a tangent, but normally i just kind of sit back and read (( and ask for help 🙂 )), i don't tend to jump into the arguments.
---perhaps this is the reincarnation of the quadra.............xQuadra 🙄
macnews
macrumors 6502a
current supply of powermacs?
Normally when we have seen upgrades/improvements to an Apple line I have heard rumors about low supplies of the previous model. Does anyone know if Powermac supplies are running low? I would think at least the low end models would be depleted before introducing the 970.
Knowing this would add a little more credibility or at least believability to any 970 rumor.
Normally when we have seen upgrades/improvements to an Apple line I have heard rumors about low supplies of the previous model. Does anyone know if Powermac supplies are running low? I would think at least the low end models would be depleted before introducing the 970.
Knowing this would add a little more credibility or at least believability to any 970 rumor.
mactastic
macrumors 68040
Re: random acts of senseless thinking
Sorry if I'm perpetuating a little tangential post myself, but I think so. A $999 single processor G4 tower with all the pro features like FW800, dual monitors, extra hard drive bays etc. would sell like crazy IMHO. Gives people one more option in the apple line.
Sorry if I'm perpetuating a little tangential post myself, but I think so. A $999 single processor G4 tower with all the pro features like FW800, dual monitors, extra hard drive bays etc. would sell like crazy IMHO. Gives people one more option in the apple line.
Re: Supermac!
SuperMac is the name already used by UMAX when they were making clones back in late 90's.
http://www.everymac.com/systems/umax/index.html
SuperMac is the name already used by UMAX when they were making clones back in late 90's.
http://www.everymac.com/systems/umax/index.html
nagromme
macrumors G5
I do expect Apple will show Panther and 970s at WWDC--maybe in secret with NDA.
I do NOT think Panther could possibly ship so soon.
As for the 970 Macs themselves shipping--it would be great, but I find it JUST barely within the realm of possibility. Unlikely, but possible.
They could ship without Panther, as long as performance in Jaguar was still impressive. I'd expect a free coupon for Panther in the box--it would enable the full 64-bit computing that was unavailable at first. (But 64-bit is not primarily a speed issue, so our current software may well run fantastically on a re-compiled 32-bit Jaguar for 970.)
Name suggestions:
Power Macintosh X5
or
Macintosh X5
I do NOT think Panther could possibly ship so soon.
As for the 970 Macs themselves shipping--it would be great, but I find it JUST barely within the realm of possibility. Unlikely, but possible.
They could ship without Panther, as long as performance in Jaguar was still impressive. I'd expect a free coupon for Panther in the box--it would enable the full 64-bit computing that was unavailable at first. (But 64-bit is not primarily a speed issue, so our current software may well run fantastically on a re-compiled 32-bit Jaguar for 970.)
Name suggestions:
Power Macintosh X5
or
Macintosh X5
Time to inject some logic into this thread!
Opteron SUCKS
Yes, that is right. it is not faster than even the xeons right now... how do i know? look at www.tomshardware.com for quite some time now that have had info on real running ones.
SO WHY WOULD YOU EVER WANT TO PUT ONE IN A MAC??????
MacBidouille is WRONG.
possibly not about this, but about how powerfull they are.
how do i know?
look at IBM's specs for the chip.
do the math, and see that the 970 is not faster then the g4 for altivec things
for non altivec it is 2.5x faster, but still slower than altivec enhanced code...
knowing this, it is not possible that a single 1.4 970 would be faster at altivec enhanced code than a dual 1.4 g4. IT IS JUST NOT POSSIBLE given the known info from IBM.
What we are doing with the wide spread over kill will kill apple WHEN it is not as fast as we say.
We are loving apple to the point that we are the ones who will cause its death.
Opteron SUCKS
Yes, that is right. it is not faster than even the xeons right now... how do i know? look at www.tomshardware.com for quite some time now that have had info on real running ones.
SO WHY WOULD YOU EVER WANT TO PUT ONE IN A MAC??????
MacBidouille is WRONG.
possibly not about this, but about how powerfull they are.
how do i know?
look at IBM's specs for the chip.
do the math, and see that the 970 is not faster then the g4 for altivec things
for non altivec it is 2.5x faster, but still slower than altivec enhanced code...
knowing this, it is not possible that a single 1.4 970 would be faster at altivec enhanced code than a dual 1.4 g4. IT IS JUST NOT POSSIBLE given the known info from IBM.
What we are doing with the wide spread over kill will kill apple WHEN it is not as fast as we say.
We are loving apple to the point that we are the ones who will cause its death.
Re: Some cracks in this rumour
The 970 will run just fine with a modified version of Jaguar, in much the same way that that current 32 bit apps will run on it. It is not even a major rewrite because of the operating similarities. Panther will be needed to unleash the full 64 bit capabilities. Panther however is much more then just a 64 bit capable OS. It will bring dramatic improvements to any current OS-X compatible Mac.
Panther is not required. A patched version of Jaguar will do the job for a couple of months. Apple needs to get the hardware out first though, then the developers can start to work on the killer apps along with Panther.
The 970 will run just fine with a modified version of Jaguar, in much the same way that that current 32 bit apps will run on it. It is not even a major rewrite because of the operating similarities. Panther will be needed to unleash the full 64 bit capabilities. Panther however is much more then just a 64 bit capable OS. It will bring dramatic improvements to any current OS-X compatible Mac.
Panther is not required. A patched version of Jaguar will do the job for a couple of months. Apple needs to get the hardware out first though, then the developers can start to work on the killer apps along with Panther.
Centris 650
macrumors 6502a
I think they should dust off the "Centris" name and call the new 970's "Centris II" 😛 😀 (Just kidding of course. But I really loved my Centris 650. What a great computer.)
I'm holding out untill December/January sometime to purchase a new mac. Hopefully any Rev A problems will be minimal by then.
I'm holding out untill December/January sometime to purchase a new mac. Hopefully any Rev A problems will be minimal by then.
Flowbee
macrumors 68030
I don't think the sales reps at Apple stores (or any other stores, for that matter) are informed about new product announcements, especially not a month in advance. I remember overhearing a sales rep in an Apple store advising a customer to "wait until Tuesday" before buying a new iPod... that was back in February! I think they get their "inside" information from the same place we do. 😉
eric_n_dfw
macrumors 68000
This only will be true in real world performance if the G4 gets a fast FSB. The 970's FSB will make it smoke the current G4 even on AlitVec since the G4's AltiVec sit's idle too much, waiting for bits to waddle over the single data rate bus.
TheAnswer
macrumors 68030
How about using Code-Names
Given that the OS marketing is now (since Jaguar) marketing the product with the code-name...what are the chances we'll see this on the hardware side?
Oddly...both the MDD and FW 800 G4 Towers have had lame code names...maybe the ad wizards are saving all the real cool code names for the 970.
I can imagine a product line name like "PowerMac Pro" or "PowerMac Extreme" then the revision or "edition" name is the code name and this is worked into marketing on the box, etc.
Given that the OS marketing is now (since Jaguar) marketing the product with the code-name...what are the chances we'll see this on the hardware side?
Oddly...both the MDD and FW 800 G4 Towers have had lame code names...maybe the ad wizards are saving all the real cool code names for the 970.
I can imagine a product line name like "PowerMac Pro" or "PowerMac Extreme" then the revision or "edition" name is the code name and this is worked into marketing on the box, etc.
Re: current supply of powermacs?
In parts of Europe, it has not been possible to get PowerMacs for some time, so it is one more piece of the puzzzle. I wrote to MacBidouille and they are confident about their predictions. That does not make it so but THIS set of predicitions has been constant and thus different from a single outrageous announcement from which recovery is possible... MacBidouille has set itself up for a fatal event if they are completely wrong on this one. And MacBidouille could not be stopped from publishing this rumor.. there is no easy legal way to do so.
The fact that the WWDC was moved to a larger venue and postponed adds even more to the idea that Apple is going to do something very different... and a preview of Panther is not it... that alone would be insufficient reason to make this change.
Moreover, note the virtual silence coming from the US rumor sites on the subject of 970s (under intense pressure to be silent??): that, and MacBidouille's constant announcements make an intriguing case for this rumor to be true. As for PBs with double processors... not likely. High end Macs, servers and low cost decked out G4s are much more likely but one can never say never. Apple is full of surprises and in the last few years under SJ, there have been some good ones.
In parts of Europe, it has not been possible to get PowerMacs for some time, so it is one more piece of the puzzzle. I wrote to MacBidouille and they are confident about their predictions. That does not make it so but THIS set of predicitions has been constant and thus different from a single outrageous announcement from which recovery is possible... MacBidouille has set itself up for a fatal event if they are completely wrong on this one. And MacBidouille could not be stopped from publishing this rumor.. there is no easy legal way to do so.
The fact that the WWDC was moved to a larger venue and postponed adds even more to the idea that Apple is going to do something very different... and a preview of Panther is not it... that alone would be insufficient reason to make this change.
Moreover, note the virtual silence coming from the US rumor sites on the subject of 970s (under intense pressure to be silent??): that, and MacBidouille's constant announcements make an intriguing case for this rumor to be true. As for PBs with double processors... not likely. High end Macs, servers and low cost decked out G4s are much more likely but one can never say never. Apple is full of surprises and in the last few years under SJ, there have been some good ones.
Re: Some cracks in this rumour
When Sun went to 64-bit chips, they still provided a 32-bit OS. They actually recommended not using the 64-bit OS if the processor was below 200MHz. Whenever they come out with a new system, they provide a CD with it. If you need to reload the OS, you reload it with one that was released in the past few quarters and then use the CD to add support for that particular family of system to get rid of the error messages and make it stable. A 32-bit OS will run on 64-bit systems. Just recently did Sun retire the ability to use the 32-bit OS on the 64-bit systems, and that was the release of the USIII processor.
A totally different MB doesnt mean that a new OS is needed. The architecture of the system is what matters. The only difference being that one uses a 32-bit processor and the other a 64-bit. The 970 can run 32-bit code, so a 32-bit OS would suffice for now, they could provide a 64-bit version of 10.2.x but highly doubt they would put the resources in it. Those resources would be better of spent on 10.3.
Lance
When Sun went to 64-bit chips, they still provided a 32-bit OS. They actually recommended not using the 64-bit OS if the processor was below 200MHz. Whenever they come out with a new system, they provide a CD with it. If you need to reload the OS, you reload it with one that was released in the past few quarters and then use the CD to add support for that particular family of system to get rid of the error messages and make it stable. A 32-bit OS will run on 64-bit systems. Just recently did Sun retire the ability to use the 32-bit OS on the 64-bit systems, and that was the release of the USIII processor.
A totally different MB doesnt mean that a new OS is needed. The architecture of the system is what matters. The only difference being that one uses a 32-bit processor and the other a 64-bit. The 970 can run 32-bit code, so a 32-bit OS would suffice for now, they could provide a 64-bit version of 10.2.x but highly doubt they would put the resources in it. Those resources would be better of spent on 10.3.
Lance
applemacdude
macrumors 68040
applemacdude
macrumors 68040
970 in the new machines
I have two late-breaking news for ya:
1. The shipment of the 40000 970 chips are designated for the iPod production line. This will enable the users to browse through 3000+ songs in less than a second or play them at Fast Forward pace up to 2000 beats per minute!
2. The new 970 PowerMacs will have different names dependent on the market. The previous names were a disaster as for example "G4" means "prostitute" in Spanish with sales dropping significantly in for example Cuba. The new names (for four large European markets, I am not sure which) will be
ÜberMac
MacAroni
MacBeth
Freedom Mac
Funnily enough, for Washington DC the new name will be MacThePresidentIsAnEmptyWarHead
I have two late-breaking news for ya:
1. The shipment of the 40000 970 chips are designated for the iPod production line. This will enable the users to browse through 3000+ songs in less than a second or play them at Fast Forward pace up to 2000 beats per minute!
2. The new 970 PowerMacs will have different names dependent on the market. The previous names were a disaster as for example "G4" means "prostitute" in Spanish with sales dropping significantly in for example Cuba. The new names (for four large European markets, I am not sure which) will be
ÜberMac
MacAroni
MacBeth
Freedom Mac
Funnily enough, for Washington DC the new name will be MacThePresidentIsAnEmptyWarHead
From everything I have read it sounds like Motorola was working on the G5 for Apple and than all of a sudden said, no we do not want to do this, sorry Apple. Motorola had to know that by doing this they were going to hurt Apple.
Also if I remember right ATI pulled something a while back by releasing information too early and Steve got mad and all of a sudden started using Nvidia in Apple products.
My point is that you do not f**k with Steve, and Motorola basically bent Apple over and put it where the sun dont shine. Because of this it would not surprise me if in one keynote Apple has dropped Motorola all at once. This seems like something Steve would do. Lay quiet, and than cut the cord with Motorola all at once. He is than stuck with only one supplier of CPUs for his products, but IBM is not going any where, and they were going to make a 970 chip anyway, just might not have added the SIMD code to the chip.
What does this mean for the consumer, I could see 970s in high end stuff as fast as possible and some new form of the G3 for everything else. And I think part of this will have nothing to do with Steve wanting to get the best technology into peoples hands as much as he just wants to get away from Motorola as fast as he came for what they did to Apple.
Also if I remember right ATI pulled something a while back by releasing information too early and Steve got mad and all of a sudden started using Nvidia in Apple products.
My point is that you do not f**k with Steve, and Motorola basically bent Apple over and put it where the sun dont shine. Because of this it would not surprise me if in one keynote Apple has dropped Motorola all at once. This seems like something Steve would do. Lay quiet, and than cut the cord with Motorola all at once. He is than stuck with only one supplier of CPUs for his products, but IBM is not going any where, and they were going to make a 970 chip anyway, just might not have added the SIMD code to the chip.
What does this mean for the consumer, I could see 970s in high end stuff as fast as possible and some new form of the G3 for everything else. And I think part of this will have nothing to do with Steve wanting to get the best technology into peoples hands as much as he just wants to get away from Motorola as fast as he came for what they did to Apple.