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[A] The Agency GAME OVER -- AGENTS WIN

Astro and QoS are quite on the same page for me, but QoS, if she were an Infiltrator had no reason to play No Confidence except if fellow baddies were already 'cornered' or at least lesser favorites to get a spot on the team (would 99% clear DP and Mo for me). So that makes her less suspicious because there would have been an easy way to fail a mission, although almost certainly outing her as a traitor - what I think would have been worthwhile nevertheless for the bad guys.
 
twietee said:
DP, are you forgetting Mo isn't cleared? I haven't seen one single instance that would have raised suspicion but still.
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i am not forgetting that at all. It is very clear in my mind and i have mentioned the possibility very frequently. however she still is less suspicious than everyone else but you (and me)

twietee said:
The important note imo is that WoodNUFC should lead the mission we want to go through.
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that depends on who gets cleared. if woodis Infi, which is a distinct possibility, he will work one infiltrator into the team for sure

twietee said:
Sorry for this monologue, lol. Hate to be the only one at the HQ...

Checked the remaining plots. All but one (Strong Leader) help us quite a bit some more some less but should all be good to create lots of info.

Team I'd suggest for Moyank: wood, QoS, DP, twietee, Koodauw

Spy (1): use it to spy on wood or QoS
Establish Confidence (1): is the reason I'd keep Mo on the lead and not play Strong Leader.
Investigate (2): DP or me checks out wood or QoS (if Spy is in play>the other one) > result doesn't 100% clear someone but if an traitor pops up we can just abort the mission
Expose (1): I would most def play this on Moyank, or if in combination with Investigate then expose woodNUFC (our strong leader) who can in return investigate on Moyank for example. This plot combo is certainly the most badass and let's fingercross that our database hackers did their job over at random.org.
Identification Verification (1): same as Expose.
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already commented on this (#488) but in response to yours points:

spy: if we draw it now, it cannot be played on wood. just QoS, fenris or mscriv
est conf.: good both on mo now or wood later
invest: agreed, can be directed at wood, fenris, qos, mscriv, moyank, astroboy
expose: as above, but can be handled by anyone. this can be targeted also at people not in the team
ID verif.: limited to people in the team

twietee said:
Astro and QoS are quite on the same page for me, but QoS, if she were an Infiltrator had no reason to play No Confidence except if fellow baddies were already 'cornered' or at least lesser favorites to get a spot on the team (would 99% clear DP and Mo for me). So that makes her less suspicious because there would have been an easy way to fail a mission, although almost certainly outing her as a traitor - what I think would have been worthwhile nevertheless for the bad guys.
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well, if QoS didn't she would have been under strong suspicion of being an infi, so in a way it was a forced play. but yes it does help her


as far as the team, outside you and me, i would include one of fenris and QoS, then koodauw and astroboy
 
mscriv said:
@ravenvii, another rules clarification, I understand a player can possess more than one plot at a time, but during a turn is there a limit to how many they can play? Can a player use more than one plot during a turn?

Just wanted to make sure you saw this so we could get an answer.
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Use as many as you like. No limit.
 
DP, Moyank is the team leadernow. I don't think it's a default move to Strong Leadership or why that comment on can't spy on wood etc?

I like Mo as the Leader because that's when Establish Confidence has the biggest impact (+ I really want to clear her, would make everything so much easier and more controllable). But she'd be next in line if WoodNUFC goes on so that could still work then.

As for QoS: there is a huge break after match 3, making it waaay more difficult to win for the traitors. So I fancy that she would have even openly failed the mission bringing us already on the very brink to loose everything (still 3 baddies in play). So I say either her colleagues were already suspected and/or TechGod or she put in quite a gamble (which I doubt).

Same goes for Mo btw. We could gamble on Mo and you, put Wood into driver seat and should be able to clear at least two others (or, regarding the spy, put the last in line openly under pressure to spy on him/her afterwards, which bears the threat of a failure nevertheless, reduces the pool but also takes Under Surveilance out of the game).
 
twietee said:
DP, Moyank is the team leadernow. I don't think it's a default move to Strong Leadership or why that comment on can't spy on wood etc?

I like Mo as the Leader because that's when Establish Confidence has the biggest impact (+ I really want to clear her, would make everything so much easier and more controllable). But she'd be next in line if WoodNUFC goes on so that could still work then.

As for QoS: there is a huge break after match 3, making it waaay more difficult to win for the traitors. So I fancy that she would have even openly failed the mission bringing us already on the very brink to loose everything (still 3 baddies in play). So I say either her colleagues were already suspected and/or TechGod or she put in quite a gamble (which I doubt).

Same goes for Mo btw. We could gamble on Mo and you, put Wood into driver seat and should be able to clear at least two others (or, regarding the spy, put the last in line openly under pressure to spy on him/her afterwards, which bears the threat of a failure nevertheless, reduces the pool but also takes Under Surveilance out of the game).
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@twietee, i am not really following what you are saying.

strong leadership could only be played during mission phase, so wood would have to play it before moyank used the NC.
he can play it again this time and go before me.

spy can only be played to look at recent votes, so until we vote again, the only candidates are fenris, qos, mscriv

mo and qos are in different spaces to me. mo could be an infi, but she would have to gamble and vote success on day 1, hoping that the other infi would vote fail. this would imply some sort of signal from the other infi or just playing the odds.
qos could have been the only infi, who voted fail. more likely.
or they could both be agents (or both infis)
i think you are putting too much stock in the no confidence use by qos. it obviously is an 'agentish' move, so it does matter a bit, but is something she could have easily played also as an Infi.
 
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Fine with me. Remember WoodNUFC has strong leadership so he could be a good player to be cleared via ID Verification for example. Unless there is some rule which I missed that he couldn't be on the team..??..or spied on? Not totally sure there but don't see a reason why not.

ninja'd: shoot! Ok, thought that would have to be played during planning phase. Sorry, didn't even look at that.
 
You misunderstood my Spy argument, I think: it can be used like Under Surveillance if we want to carry through a mission (not being 100% certain about everybody but want to keep the No Confy plot). So we'd cover our bases somewhat but can fail the mission (if the player we chose in advance (!) to spy on is an infil but doesn't care about it. That would give us intel but also makes Under Surveillance obsolete. Clear what I meant?).
 
vaguely.
what if we have 2 Infis? than both of them know who will vote fail and who success. a huge help to them.

i think if we get spy now we use it on fenris, qos or mscriv, particularly if one is on the current team. we know for a fact one of them DID vote fail. so we have a 1/3 chance to identify one for sure. if it comes clear, they get in the same 'space ' as moyank, and the other two become even more suspect
 
Don't panic said:
again, the only candidates are fenris, qos, mscriv

mo and qos are in different spaces to me. mo could be an infi, but she would have to gamble and vote success on day 1, hoping that the other infi would vote fail. this would imply some sort of signal from the other infi or just playing the odds.
qos could have been the only infi, who voted fail. more likely.
or they could both be agents (or both infis)
i think you are putting too much stock in the no confidence use by qos. it obviously is an 'agentish' move, so it does matter a bit, but is something she could have easily played also as an Infi.
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Hm, I'll value QoS's use of No Con much higher than Moyanks since you already had one too at the point Mo used it. So basically Moyank had no possibility to make a move that would really put the traitors at a disadvantage while QoS did. And a second win for the traitors would have been a huge step - even if that means sacrifying herself! If Mo is a traitor it is certain there was another one on the team. I fancy mscriv but who knows. It still could be you and her and then it is almost a nobrainer and perfect cover for her to vote success - even more so if mscriv would be on the team as well.
 
Don't panic said:
vaguely.
what if we have 2 Infis? than both of them know who will vote fail and who success. a huge help to them.

i think if we get spy now we use it on fenris, qos or mscriv, particularly if one is on the current team. we know for a fact one of them DID vote fail. so we have a 1/3 chance to identify one for sure. if it comes clear, they get in the same 'space ' as moyank, and the other two become even more suspect
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Hmm, I wasn't aware that we could spy way back, that's a good point actually. We should make 100% clear that this is possible though - remember Koodauw already voted recently (probably the only one but that wouldn't matter eventually).
 
twietee said:
Hmm, I wasn't aware that we could spy way back, that's a good point actually. We should make 100% clear that this is possible though - remember Koodauw already voted recently (probably the only one but that wouldn't matter eventually).
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That isn't way back - its the previous mission success/failure vote which is as far back as we can go. @ravenvii some clarification, does that still count as the previous mission success/failure vote at this stage or does the no confidence mission count as the latest since at least 1 person had voted by the time it was cancelled.
 
FenrisMoonlight said:
That isn't way back - its the previous mission success/failure vote which is as far back as we can go. @ravenvii some clarification, does that still count as the previous mission success/failure vote at this stage or does the no confidence mission count as the latest since at least 1 person had voted by the time it was cancelled.
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Well, for me it was since two missions went ahead and could have been voted in and at least one vote was openly cast, we also don't know if in Astroboy's mission some votes were already cast behind the scene.
 
Moyank24 said:
How does this look?

DP
Twietee
QOS
Koodauw
Astroboy
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Since you haven't included me and your probably an agent, you have an infiltrator on the team.

I think we're in danger of making a mistake. We only have 1 no confidence left which we want to use to stop a mission if we find an infiltrator on the team. So we probably going to force ourselves to use it now (or end up with another failed mission)
 
twietee said:
Well, for me it was since two missions went ahead and could have been voted in and at least one vote was openly cast, we also don't know if in Astroboy's mission some votes were already cast behind the scene.
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Yeah agreed - why I asked ravenvii to clarify if it counts or if the partial missions since would override who we could spy on.
 
Don't panic said:
vaguely.
what if we have 2 Infis? than both of them know who will vote fail and who success. a huge help to them.

i think if we get spy now we use it on fenris, qos or mscriv, particularly if one is on the current team. we know for a fact one of them DID vote fail. so we have a 1/3 chance to identify one for sure. if it comes clear, they get in the same 'space ' as moyank, and the other two become even more suspect
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I know I voted success, so you could choose to clear me or try to identify a traitor out of QoS or mscriv - not sure which is more useful at this stage. My feeling is spy on mscriv.
 
Don't panic said:
it's a fair point.
but if partial votes do count for this purpose, than the partial vote tally should also be disclosed by ravenvii (basically how many failure or success votes were cast before the missions were aborted)
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That's true. It slipped my radar that the first mission can likely be considered the most recent vote, good find, so yep. think QoS or mscriv are the best targets. Probably mscriv since he felt save the most.

But that way we should think about abandoning the upcoming mission too, since we'd have actually minimum three players that are highly doubtful (two if we don't PM before Koodauw went in first). And that's not even including you DP.
 
FenrisMoonlight said:
Since you haven't included me and your probably an agent, you have an infiltrator on the team.

I think we're in danger of making a mistake. We only have 1 no confidence left which we want to use to stop a mission if we find an infiltrator on the team. So we probably going to force ourselves to use it now (or end up with another failed mission)
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Not necessarily. As long as we can possibly No Confy the mission Koodauw could be an Inf who still would vote success the next mission.

Could you please explain to me, since I obviously did miss a couple of details, why you previously said we'd have to go along with a WoodNUFC mission if we'd abandon this one (and he'd use Strong Leadership)?
 
twietee said:
Not necessarily. As long as we can possibly No Confy the mission Koodauw could be an Inf who still would vote success the next mission.

Could you please explain to me, since I obviously did miss a couple of details, why you previously said we'd have to go along with a WoodNUFC mission if we'd abandon this one (and he'd use Strong Leadership)?
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I didn't - I said it would be a mistake to use both no confidence to get 6 more plot points because then we'd have to go along with whatever team WoodNUFC proposed if he used strong leadership afterwards.

Edit - It's also a mistake because we'd have no more no confidences to use to cancel a mission with infiltrators on it found after the team was created. The more I think about it, the more I think we should have kept both of the remaining no confidences for that occurrence - and used moyanks/DP team selections to check out people we were unsure about and then no confidence those missions if we found an infiltrator but what's done is done and we only have 1 left.
 
heavily disagree on your (recent) take on no conf, fenris. traitors fear plots the most by far i'd say. pretty strange reasoning (again) to be that afraid of an inf to not use the plot as we did but at the very same time suggest we should just go along with an educatrd guess (at most) of mo/dp. also knowing under surveillance would lose it's power if that'd fail.

not comfortable with fenris on the team. any stromg reasoning there koodauw?

off for sports now though.
 
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