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Fair enough but, as a consumer looking for a streamer with the most content, why should I care if Roku makes less profit?

And you shouldn't. But to say one is better than the other. Or "read between the lines" and blame Apple with no proof, is where I believe we all are at fault.

The more choices in the market the better. I hope cable companies realize that they have the content people want. Tech companies have the hardware consumers want. Team up with them and stop selling crappy set top boxes.
 
Seriously, the new trend is building a digital movie library. Where on the apple TV can you purchase movies besides itunes....maybe i'm missing something? Example....on the roku you can purchase movies from many store fronts.....vudu, amazon, mgo, Google play, flixster, cinemanow, .......apple has never allowed competition on the apple tv....will they now.....maybe but I wouldn't hold my breath.

You clearly have zero idea what you are talking about. Please research before commenting. One: Apple has always allowed competition on iDevices. You can get the Kindle app, the Barnes and Noble App, multiple video, audio, and book apps, and buy content or view purchased content. The only reason the Apple TV was different was the lack of an App Store. Apple wasn't holding anything up and it's absolutely ridiculous to claim otherwise. Apple DOES NOT take cuts from Amazon Video or their Kindle or their Audible stores. Period. You buy through the Safari web browser and the content shows up in the app, avoiding the 30 percent fee for hosting content. That option has always been available to EVERY developer and service. Time to stop spreading lies.
 
You clearly have zero idea what you are talking about. Please research before commenting. One: Apple has always allowed competition on iDevices. You can get the Kindle app, the Barnes and Noble App, multiple video, audio, and book apps, and buy content or view purchased content. The only reason the Apple TV was different was the lack of an App Store. Apple wasn't holding anything up and it's absolutely ridiculous to claim otherwise. Apple DOES NOT take cuts from Amazon Video or their Kindle or their Audible stores. Period. You buy through the Safari web browser and the content shows up in the app, avoiding the 30 percent fee for hosting content. That option has always been available to EVERY developer and service. Time to stop spreading lies.
We are talking about digital movie stores that rent and sell movies.......if i'm missing one please let me know.
 
I wrote an email to Amazon's CEO few days ago regarding this and this is what I got......

Nice! Me too, earlier in the month. Said they would forward it on. Guess we weren't alone.

Hey Amazon you forgetting people who still have ATV3 oh well ATV or Apple becoming useless I think my Xbox One loves all the attention.

Just AirPlay from your iPhone or iPad. Works pretty well.

Many Blu-rays and DVDs automatically come with vudu/ultraviolet digital copies when you buy them. Especially tv series like The Big Bang. Since i already have the digital copies through vudu, it would be great not to have to rebuy. Plus, vudu can actually stream the content, unlike iTunes which requires a full download for playback on most iOS devices ( while that last part isn't directly relevant to Apple TV, it's another reason that some people might prefer vudu over iTunes in general). Vudu/Ultraviolet is probably the current most universal as well ( by which, I mean available on all systems)

Also, random side note: once you own something in you vudu/ultraviolet library, it's yours forever via their terms. Technically that's not true for iTunes. Apple still expects you to download and back up everything you buy. Content can be pulled from the app stores by publishers to prevent streaming (although I assume apple is probably slowly fixing this in their newer content agreements).

Remember when BDs came with iTunes, then ultraviolet showed up and iTunes codes disappeared (from everything but Disney)? Then, about a year later, suddenly iTunes codes came back? Just shows the power of Apple in these spaces.

I told Amazon I would not renew my Prime account unless they put out an :apple: TV app.

You are all welcome!

j/k :D

I said the same thing in my email to them. Power to the people!!
 
Dream scenario:

Amazon Prime with Siri search
Netflix to have Siri search added (or does it already)
BBC iPlayer

Then I'm happy.

Until then, I'm using my Amazon Fire TV more than my ATV.

iPlayer is coming someday.

Personally I'm rather more demanding than you. I also want All4, MUBI (which is also in development), Animax, and a Now TV app which isn't unimaginably terrible.

Siri voice search needs to be across all services too, not just Netflix and iTunes. It's supposed to be a universal search, with the emphasis on universal.

Oh and the ATV really should be a Homekit hub too.
 
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iPlayer is coming someday.

Personally I'm rather more demanding than you. I also want All4, MUBI (which is also in development), Animax, and a Now TV app which isn't unimaginably terrible.

Siri voice search needs to be across all services too, not just Netflix and iTunes. It's supposed to be a universal search, with the emphasis on universal.

Oh and the ATV really should be a Homekit hub too.
I can live with the Now TV app as is, just want All4 to confirm something is in the pipeline.
 
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Why does an app store mean a new one has to come out that often? Macs have an app store and are not updated that often.
Because tvOS development is based on iOS which has a well defined upgrade cycle. If they don't keep it up to date, many new apps (games) won't run well as time goes by. They are already one cycle behind in SOC. It also gives them a reoccurring upgrade cycle, which Apple loves.
If they don't upgrade to an ATV5 within two years it would be because of lost confidence in the product like iPod touch.
 
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Well, that didn't take long. Are they going to start selling the boxes again too? Maybe they realized from their little experiment that people aren't going to buy an inferior Fire TV box just because that's the only thing Amazon allows you to buy. There are plenty of other online retailers that will gladly take our money. As a Prime Subscriber, I'm really pissed off that Amazon refuses to support these platforms. Most of the coding is already done in the iOS version. The point of Prime Video is to be a value-add for Prime customers. It's to drive sales to their online shopping experience. Somebody at Amazon forgot that and now they're not only missing out on streaming device sales, but driving their customers away from Prime by limiting the value-add.
You can view EVERY digital provider on iOS and Apple TV. Every single one.

Wake me up when their full apps are on the apple tv.....
 
Wake me up when their full apps are on the apple tv.....

I started putting the foamers on ignore. It cut the thread in half, but man, it works.

I have zero expectation that it will be a full app like it is with Roku where you pull up a title and if you don't own it you can select which service to rent or buy it from based on the current price. No doubt the Hangup in getting this moving, if in fact this is legit in the first place. I do expect that you'll be able to playback in the format of your choosing if you do own it in multiple services as is often the case, but even that's a question mark. It will depend how hard Apple is with driving the use of their ecosystem over another when using the cross app search function (assuming cross app search is even available). This could be just a playback app that doesn't work with the global search which would suck, but be better than a poke in the eye.

Oh and I asked Amazon customer service about this app last night and they said they have nothing in development as of this morning, so there's that. I'm firmly in the "I'll believe it when I see it" camp on this.
 
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Wake me up when their full apps are on the apple tv.....

That's up to Amazon, Vudu and others if they are willing to pay Apple a portion of their proceeds.

I'll give you an example..... Comixogy was a great app. It had its own store on iOS and offered the same content you could get from iBooks. Then Amazon bought them and immediately removed the ability to purchase content within the app. Just like their other apps you now had to go purchase somewhere else.

Amazon did not have to remove the in-app purchasing. They chose to remove it.
 
Well this would really be a shock if it happened. Amazon have managed to ignore the Chromecast for years, despite it achieving huge sales and having an open SDK and app store, and obviously Apple and Amazon's history is not a happy one.

It will be interesting to see what a Prime Video app on the Apple TV looks like. Will it use the standard Amazon Prime UI, or will it be a low budget TVML type thing consisting of a bunch of tiny thumbnails and text? And will it support Siri Voice Search (a real test of how well Apple and Amazon get on I imagine) and Top Shelf showcase?
Their video app on iOS is one of the best if not the best video App on iOS. Their App on the Samsung TVs is not nearly as good. I suppose it is a bit of a toss up.
 
I started putting the foamers on ignore. It cut the thread in half, but man, it works.

I have zero expectation that it will be a full app like it is with Roku where you pull up a title and if you don't own it you can select which service to rent or buy it from based on the current price. No doubt the Hangup in getting this moving, if in fact this is legit in the first place. I do expect that you'll be able to playback in the format of your choosing if you do own it in multiple services as is often the case, but even that's a question mark. It will depend how hard Apple is with driving the use of their ecosystem over another when using the cross app search function (assuming cross app search is even available). This could be just a playback app that doesn't work with the global search which would suck, but be better than a poke in the eye.

Oh and I asked Amazon customer service about this app last night and they said they have nothing in development as of this morning, so there's that. I'm firmly in the "I'll believe it when I see it" camp on this.
You won't see them do know-app purchases on any Apple platform until the terms change. It is difficult for third party content providers to get any kind of margin that way. Apple's 30% is not a big deal for people providing original content. It kills resellers.
 
Hey Amazon you forgetting people who still have ATV3 oh well ATV or Apple becoming useless I think my Xbox One loves all the attention.
ATV3 is different, that requires a deal between Amazon and Apple. Nearly all of the old AppleTV apps have some way for Apple to make money.
 
Overall I think iOS has the right idea in preventing apps from having payment systems outside of the App Store. In general I don't want apps asking for my CC details. I also like having a central location to track my subscriptions. This is more convenient and secure for customers.
The issue is that Apple treats everybody the same, while the big players would prefer to directly own the financial relationship. Frankly even if Apple dropped the cut to 0%, Amazon would still prefer to have access to the CC number. This is a fundimental difference in the business models. That said, I am more than satisfied to have access to my Prime account even if Amazon does not let me purchase other content. If I want to buy something I'll just use iTunes.
 
Rather interesting article given that a crap load of other articles found elsewhere on the net pretty much lays the "blame" squarely in Apple's lap. At best, maybe Apple had a change of heart but I too doubt that it was merely an oversight on Amazon's part to not create the app. Both Amazon and Apple are two heavy competitors in this venue of streaming rentals and purchases. I don't doubt that Amazon too has been a "bad boy" where the customer is concerned in its reaction and not providing what is needed to get Amazon Prime on some other devices out there.

The only articles laying blame on Apple's lap were all from anti-Apple fanboys and completely based on speculation. This and the previous sourced articles all point to the ball being in Amazon's court.

Apple's app store is very very open. Really. Download Xcode, make something, and submit it. If a company like Amazon was being blocked from putting their app on the tvOS store, they would start making a stink about it (as Google did when it thought its apps were unfairly delayed a few years back, for instance). There is no rational reason for Amazon to keep quiet about Apple blocking them from publishing their app. And yet, they have not complained about this at all. Ergo, Amazon is highly unlikely to have been blocked from the tvOS app store.

On the opposite side, Apple has every reason to be cautious in chiding others who have not yet created apps. Make a stink about Amazon not putting its app on your platform and you make your platform look weak and undesirable. From Apple's perspective this is to be handled in smoky back rooms, not in the press. Which isn't to say Apple is negotiating from a point of weakness: Apple's juggernaut will leave Amazon's service in the dust if Amazon doesn't get on board. But that strength is a company-to-company negotiating strength, not a "popular opinion" negotiating strength.

From Amazon's perspective, I don't think their hesitation has actually cost them much other than consumer good will. Amazon's forte is not in the "collector" realm (who would much rather be holding physical media or in a pinch downloading content rather than streaming on every viewing; Amazon sometimes allows downloads, but not always and certainly doesn't make it easy). Amazon streaming (1) sells Prime memberships, and (2) makes a modest revenue stream in the form of rentals. While the former is going to take a hit, it is a yearly renewal and so won't be affected by a several-months delay in usefulness. On the latter, consumer loyalty there is completely fungible, and when Amazon comes up as one of the half dozen places to rent a movie from, they will be in no worse situation than they would have been if they'd supported tvOS day one. That said, the Prime business is far and away more significant to Amazon than single-shot rentals, both because it generates much more profit and because it builds loyalty.

What would hurt Amazon is if, come next Fall, they were still not supported on the Apple TV. Then people who own AppleTV boxes will start looking at their Prime memberships and saying that the Prime Video "benefit" is kind of useless or too inconvenient to be worth it, and some portion of them will then cancel their memberships. Most Prime memberships renew in the peak buying seasons (especially later December), for obvious reasons. That is where the decision point will be. This season I suspect won't see a massive fall-off in memberships, reasoning that Amazon is just having a hard time getting their app together and into the store; next season it would be clear that Amazon has decided to not support the AppleTV at all, and those memberships would fall off.

So, Amazon's initial play this season was to see how viable a head-in-the-sand strategy would be. If we pretend Apple TV doesn't exist, will we sell more FireTV boxes, and make more off those than we project to lose in recurring Prime subscriptions? Will those FireTV box sales themselves increase Prime memberships more than AppleTV-based Prime membership drop-offs?

I think that if we see an Amazon Video app on tvOS before Christmas it will be quite clear how that experiment went.

On a more personal note: Amazon has lost my family's loyalty. We still have a Prime membership (ours renews in June, so we are off-cycle with the majority), but come renewal time the main question will be if shipping costs are worth the membership cost. I think that this next year they might still be, but it is going to be much closer than it ever has been before. Our experience with the FireTV Stick (horrible horrible POS) has kept us from using Amazon Prime video for anything significant, and not supporting AppleTV keeps us from giving them a second shot. And as others have noted, the Prime Shipping has gotten less and less reliable over the past year or so (and a $5 credit or extra month of Prime each incidence is great but doesn't assuage the damage caused by something arriving two days after we needed to have it). We've also been hit by the false-description knockoffs on the Amazon "Marketplace" one too many times and refuse to use new merchants there (again, we can send the counterfeit goods back and get a refund, but convenience costs us). There's just too much rotten in Amazon to treat it as a no-thought-required first place to look for goods.
 
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Maybe for you. I get EVERYTHING I order from prime shipped to me on time. Most items arrive a day early. Amazon is more than capable of shipping on time. Must be a you problem.


Very much region-based and usage-based. In areas where Amazon is (currently) pushing for subscribers the service is great. No guarantee it will remain so next year or the year after. Amazon also seems to favor low-volume subscribers over high-volume subscribers, although the evidence there is much slimmer.

When we first subscribed to Prime almost everything arrived the next day, even though Prime is two-day shipping. Now items from Amazon ship a day or two later and arrive two days after that. Other people I work with and who we know around the area have reported the exact same drop-off in reliability over the exact same period. From Amazon's perspective, it is a lot harder to lose a Prime subscriber with shoddy service than to gain a new one, so they make regional "surges" for memberships.
 
If you think Amazon submits an app to another company without lawyers first negotiating who gets what, when, where and how, then you have no idea how this works.

Sorry, but I have first-hand knowledge of major companies submitting apps to other companies' app stores, and lawyers are not involved in negotiations at all except in negotiating any cross-promotion deals. There, a week delay due to lawyer posturing would be very very bad for the lawyers involved. Maybe Amazon is particularly litigious, but lawyers would not at all be standing in the way of a "soft launch" on a competing platform.

Now, might Amazon have been holding out to convince Apple that they need to be able to offer on-device rentals/purchases without the 15% cut going to Apple? Maybe, but that isn't "lawyers negotiating"; that is one company seeking special treatment. You might also posit that Amazon was holding out for Apple to put a big Amazon Prime sticker on the outside of every box sold. Whatever. But don't characterize Amazon asking for special treatment as a "both sides are at fault / cats and dogs can't get along" scenario. If a delay was caused by inability to agree on terms, it was completely due to Amazon wanting special favorable terms, not Apple requiring more of Amazon than of any other app store submitter.

Does Amazon deserve special treatment? Well, that is a point that the C-level guys have I'm sure debated back and forth, and waited on the first few months' sales to see which way reality swayed.
 
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Jett, sorry to burst your bubble but some of the statements you make referencing anti-Apple etc., seems absurd.

I appreciate the effort on your part to explain your POV but disagree with you. I think others also don't buy into the idea of just how wonderful Apple is considering that Apple plays games with their rules and limitations on apps. We have seen this demonstrated in IOS apps and more. Bottom line remains that both Amazon and Apple are in it to make money, not provide access and praise to other companies unless it lines their own pockets.

Just to be fair, I am very critical of Apple but also critical of everyone else as I do not have brand loyalty. Apple to me is like any other company these days and has its own market model that for some of us, is a let down or leads to frustration. Amazon, Roku, Nvidia, etc...are all in it to make money too and not one of them actually gives a crap about what we think or say or care about conjecture until it hits their failure to meet forecasts.
 
ATV3 is different, that requires a deal between Amazon and Apple. Nearly all of the old AppleTV apps have some way for Apple to make money.



So Apple was behind it and ATV4 is not part of Apple wow all the conspiracy at Apple banning Amazon Prime on ATV3 because it is Apple and ATV4 is not.


Do me a favor take that tin foil off it's on too tight.
 
Just AirPlay from your iPhone or iPad. Works pretty well.

Why should I or others who still have ATV3 have to use AirPlay still when they can easily have the App added to ATV3 also just like Apple Music, too much Apple Fanboys here need to understand Apple just wants to waste money. Why would one get ATV4 when it still not stream in 4K while Xbox One does and supports lossless 5.1 surround and DTS-HD streaming.

ATV4 is just few minor hardware upgrades and minor changes that could have been added to ATV3 easily such as Apple Music or Amazon Prime. Tim Cook trying to work with cable networks is a joke because he is no Steve Jobs and really lacks imagination and he is setting Apple back to the early or becoming the current Microsoft.
 
You can view EVERY digital provider on iOS and Apple TV. Every single one.

Vudu on apple TV. Don't think so.

Oh and I asked Amazon customer service about this app last night and they said they have nothing in development as of this morning, so there's that. I'm firmly in the "I'll believe it when I see it" camp on this.

Amazon customer support is clearly going to be up to date on the apple TV.
 
There are really just a few things that are missing to make this the perfect box:

- Kodi support (even if through a custom build connected to a Mac using the new ability to install apps from XCode without a developer account).
- Bitstream support, to allow DTS, DTS-HD, other codecs to passthrough to the receiver.
- Amazon V.O.D.
- Support for games that don't require the included remote and can work with controllers only.
- Siri voice search for all these services, especially Kodi.

With these features in place, I would be replacing all my boxes with the new Apple TV. No needs for dongles, android boxes, custom-built PCs using OpenElec (my current solution for the main living room with 7.2 surround system and JVC Projector) etc.
 
Maybe they realized that preventing competitors' devices from using Amazon Instant Video is not a good way to promote their underdog (to Netflix) video streaming service.
 
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