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Don't forget to consider mobile workstations from Dell Precision, HP ZBook, and the Lenovo Thinkpad P series. They represent the Windows/Linux laptops that will have the best reliability, and they come with the best warranties.

The only downside is that most of them will be heavier than the typical MacBook Pro as these laptops have to pass at least 8 Mil Spec (on average 15) tests for drop, dust, temperature, vibration, spill resistance etc.
 
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The only downside is that most of them will be heavier than the typical MacBook Pro

That is the one and only downside needed to keep your average user away from them. In the main people want the thin and light ultrabook, not a brick. Work stations have their place, not in the general laptop buying population.
 
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That is the one and only downside needed to keep your average user away from them. In the main people want the thin and light ultrabook, not a brick. Work stations have their place, not in the general laptop buying population.

Yep but the 15”mbp is a workstation with comparable specs. It’s just too thin to allow for the performance without overheating.
 
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Yep but the 15”mbp is a workstation with comparable specs. It’s just too thin to allow for the performance without overheating.

Indeed, but it's another Apple vs Windows comparison, fine if you want to make that change away from macOS otherwise MBP it is.
 
Yep but the 15”mbp is a workstation with comparable specs. It’s just too thin to allow for the performance without overheating.

And yet it will still outperform any Windows workstation laptop with comparable form factor. People really have very broad definition of "overheating" these days. The system runs at its nominal spec and nominal safe temperature - "OMG, ITS OVERHEATING!". The system runs 20% slower than a laptop three times the weight which operates the CPU at 2x TDP - "OMD, ITS OVERHEATING!". You get the point.
 
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Can you provide data showing the MBP outperforming an XPS 15 9570, Aero 15X, ThinkPad X1E, MSI P85/GS65 in GPU or CPU performance, since you've made a very grand assertion I haven't seen anyone else make before?

The i9 will be very close and the Vega 20 is no slouch.

I have done a load of research as I use these tools daily for work, and have come to the conclusion that when comparing all areas that both 13 and 15” MBP are very competitive.

Really though someone would need to get all these machines, do long term real world testing in order to get the right answer, which I doubt no one will. So who knows...... it’s all anecdotal.

And yet it will still outperform any Windows workstation laptop with comparable form factor. People really have very broad definition of "overheating" these days. The system runs at its nominal spec and nominal safe temperature - "OMG, ITS OVERHEATING!". The system runs 20% slower than a laptop three times the weight which operates the CPU at 2x TDP - "OMD, ITS OVERHEATING!". You get the point.

Don’t disagree with this at all, hence my comment above. I don’t have all these other machines to compare with on my desk.
 
And yet it will still outperform any Windows workstation laptop with comparable form factor. People really have very broad definition of "overheating" these days. The system runs at its nominal spec and nominal safe temperature - "OMG, ITS OVERHEATING!". The system runs 20% slower than a laptop three times the weight which operates the CPU at 2x TDP - "OMD, ITS OVERHEATING!". You get the point.

Naturally :rolleyes: I'll leave you to keep convincing yourself o_O

Q-6
 
Can you provide data showing the MBP outperforming an XPS 15 9570, Aero 15X, ThinkPad X1E, MSI P85/GS65 in GPU or CPU performance, since you've made a very grand assertion I haven't seen anyone else make before?

I was talking about workstation laptops which usually P2000 in that form factor (a GPU slower than the Vega Pro 20). Not to mention that laptop makers like to put more conservative power limits on there lighter workstation CPUs and GPUs. Dell's Precision for example traditionally featured 35Watt TDP on the CPU, but it seems that they have changed it in the last iteration so that the performance is inline with the premium consumer laptops.

P.S. It is also true that multiple vendors now bring workstation version of their gaming laptops which come with a substantially more powerful GPUs than what Apple gives us. Examples are MSI WS65 etc. I have to admit that I didn't know about these models. I haven't seen any reviews of these laptops yet, but I'd assume their performance to be on the similar level as their gaming siblings with same drawbacks (compromised battery life, thin casing walls etc.).
 
And yet it will still outperform any Windows workstation laptop with comparable form factor. People really have very broad definition of "overheating" these days. The system runs at its nominal spec and nominal safe temperature - "OMG, ITS OVERHEATING!". The system runs 20% slower than a laptop three times the weight which operates the CPU at 2x TDP - "OMD, ITS OVERHEATING!". You get the point.

I can't speak for any other machine, but i will say that my Lenovo X1 Extreme outperformed my (now sold) 2018 MacBook Pro., The X1E is faster, has a 4k display, better GPU and runs significantly cooler. The one thing the MBP was better at, was battery life. Overall I'm finding Lightroom, and photoshop to be faster on the Lenovo then the MBP.
 
I can't speak for any other machine, but i will say that my Lenovo X1 Extreme outperformed my (now sold) 2018 MacBook Pro., The X1E is faster, has a 4k display, better GPU and runs significantly cooler. The one thing the MBP was better at, was battery life. Overall I'm finding Lightroom, and photoshop to be faster on the Lenovo then the MBP.

Adobe products love Nvidia GPUs. Glad you are enjoying your new machine.

While my 15" MBP might have better battery life, I doubt I would ever know. With AC power available on airplanes I hardly ever use it without the charger plugged in.
 
FB885EF7-9D87-4E19-946D-30D5CE66E475.jpeg 90DCFA05-C571-46D6-85E9-580D5282BA65.jpeg

Don't forget to consider mobile workstations from Dell Precision, HP ZBook, and the Lenovo Thinkpad P series. They represent the Windows/Linux laptops that will have the best reliability, and they come with the best warranties.

The only downside is that most of them will be heavier than the typical MacBook Pro as these laptops have to pass at least 8 Mil Spec (on average 15) tests for drop, dust, temperature, vibration, spill resistance etc.

Not that much heavier.
 
The biggest thing I noticed on the non-MBPs is the size and weight of the power supply Some of those units have a PS the size and weight of a small brick.
That's because MBP has 80W power brick, while the windows boxes with decent GPU's can require you to upgrade the circuit breakers in your house. But, for example, I find the 130W XPS slim power adapter to be more portable than the 80W square pants from MBP and the same applies to all sub 150W modern PC laptop power supplies.
 
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That's because MBP has 80W power brick, while the windows boxes with decent GPU's can require you to upgrade the circuit breakers in your house. But, for example, I find the 130W XPS slim power adapter to be more portable than the 80W square pants from MBP and the same applies to all sub 150W modern PC laptop power supplies.

Not what I am seeing. Most of my ML cohorts have systems with PS that is at least 5-6" long by 3 inches wide by 1/2 thick. True power bricks.
 
"If even 2% of users had failing keyboards, that's a MAJOR fail."

That's right, even if 2 percent of all keyboards were defective, that means there is high chance that one you would get in return would be a flawless one.

With one catch: Unless you're in a 14-day window, Apple only replaces your computer with a refurbished one - meaning, one out of the pool of failed computers. At which point your odds change considerably - not only wrt the keyboard, but getting something else that's wrong. Some people are lucky, but I've been extraordinarily unlucky in the Apple repair department. To the point where I'll go 3rd party repair even though they don't take the Apple Warranty I paid for: because they will (1) actually fix MY laptop, and (2) will actually warranty their work afterwards.

In general, though - once you get into a hardware issue with a modern Apple device, you tend to get stuck on the marginal hardware train - even though that's really bad marketing.
 
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Not what I am seeing. Most of my ML cohorts have systems with PS that is at least 5-6" long by 3 inches wide by 1/2 thick. True power bricks.
6x3x1 that's the old Dell 130W power brick, the 'slim' versions are smaller. This is 80W Kensigton and 130W slim Dell, and I really prefer to have the Dell in the bag, it fits in more places. Apple doesn't invent anything here, 80W power brick will be a lot smaller than 280W one.
IMG_0272(Edited)2.jpg

IMG_0274(Edited)2.jpg
 
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But this is just getting ridiculous. I'm serious considering bouncing off to Linux because M$ is just not an option in my mind. /QUOTE]

Oh yeah, also overpriced, underpowered, unrepairable etc. I'd been working with Macs and large scale installs for 20+years (universities) and the hardware quality builds have never been as poor as they are in these last few years. The other issue is the 'echo chamber' loop where Apple and Apple users only compare Apples with Apples. My advice, get uptodate and across 'platform agnostic' resources that compare, review and test innovations on ALL platforms. After all, Apple are only one vendor of (mostly) Intel dictaions (for now).

In my case: 1) went with a beefy Windows workstation for all of my recording studio and video production work a couple of years ago. Never looked back, incomparable support, performance, etc. and 2): almost 12 months ago I went with a Dell XPS laptop to replace my history of some 30 Apple laptops across my career. Again, there is no comparison in terms of the hardware and the Dell is literally 1-2 years ahead of Apple, eg: magnetic keys design, 4k edge-2-edge display, dual GPUs (my 15" 9575), touch screen, upgradable parts, on-site service warranty, etc.

re. Windows: I too had old preconceptions of what Windows 'was'i, but others apart from Apple do indeed innovate and evolve as well (much to the contrary of AppleSpin). My present Windows10 Pro 1809 is also light years away from MacOS, is far more powerful, and I have learnt to also ignore all of the old 'add on', fix-it spamware that insists I need say, Registry Editors, Driver Boosters, Virus protection, any number of Maintenance programs. My experience is that all of this is bull, sales-oriented and plays upon the very old and somewhat outdated fears of those of us who remember the 'bad old days'. This Dell laptop runs best it I leave it alone, the built-in security centre runs fine, doesn't get in the way of anything else. I've never had any virus on either of my machines.

The downside? Windows updates 'can' break things. Solution and workflow: keep backups, make a small system partition for speed of incremental updates and restore if necessary. All of which works perfectly and quickly in the case of a restore (not at all like Timeachine restores, trying to fix macos via Terminal Unix command lines if necessary, and lastly: the usual only mac fix 'reinstall the OS'). With revised thinking (forget the Apple context) and a good regime, is easy and painless. Again: the Windows recovery from image function works quickly and perfectly (assuming a good backup). Win backup and restore (Paragon's Hard Disk Manager); FileSync for the docs on another drive of partition using something like GoodSync.

Sure, will take a little reserach and practice as first, but this goes away with greater familarity and confidence. Again: do proper reserach with platform agnostic (Win, Mac, Chrome, Linux) and country agnostic (Google US-centric, vs the rest) tools.

My 2 cents anyways. The Apple loop has been out of control for the last few years since Jobs died. Over it, have moved on. A shame, but there you go.
 
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I can't speak for any other machine, but i will say that my Lenovo X1 Extreme outperformed my (now sold) 2018 MacBook Pro., The X1E is faster, has a 4k display, better GPU and runs significantly cooler. The one thing the MBP was better at, was battery life. Overall I'm finding Lightroom, and photoshop to be faster on the Lenovo then the MBP.

I think it is more down to drivers and better optimisation in the apps. A lot of apps I use that are cross platform always seems better in Windows. This and support for CUDA which is useful for me.

My conclusions have come back to just using bootcamp and an Nvidia eGPU [which I would need with all PCs too due to GPU rendering]. The Vega 64 in my imac pro certainly performs well in a lot of GPU rendering tasks also [I can use Twinmotion on Ultra settings with some reasonable models but it does get the fans going], but is no good for Vray. Basically what I am saying here is live rendering of 3D environments on the fly.

I agree though, a 4K screen would be nice on the MBP but not convinced on the GPU on the X1E [1050] against the Vega 20, and the CPU is the same.
 
6x3x1 that's the old Dell 130W power brick, the 'slim' versions are smaller. This is 80W Kensigton and 130W slim Dell, and I really prefer to have the Dell in the bag, it fits in more places. Apple doesn't invent anything here, 80W power brick will be a lot smaller than 280W one.

Thanks for posting the images. And interesting comment on the Dell one fitting better in your bag. I could see how longer by slimmer would work for fitting in a pocket in a case.
 
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The Lenovo X1 Extreme looks like a nice machine... I'm a little jealous the SSD and RAM can be upgraded so easily.

I was amused to see pressing the "B" key can cause problems for some though...
rkus7 from ThinkPad product page reviews said:
Now this is very dubious, as it may only apply to me, but applying a moderate amount of pressure at the center of the keyboard(around the "B" key), causes my computer to crash. The screen either freezes, goes blank, or goes haywire, and I have to restart(holding the power button) to restart again. Replacing the trackpoint(the red thing in the middle) becomes impossible because of this. Here's a reddit link of this happening:

https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/absspa/x1_extreme_do_you_guys_have_this_issue_maybe_even/
 
I totally agree OP, the only thing that keeps me to mac is the os, nothing else. I love the way it effortlessly interacts with my iPhone and my iPad but if it wasn't for that I'd jump ship in a heartbeat. My MacBook pro is from 2014, £2.6K for a replacement is a total piss take, especially when there are really nice (and much better) laptops out there from competitors for less than a grand.

It seems to me like apple are really trying to kill off computers and move to iPads, but in all seriousness, how can you (and why would you) develop anything on an iPad. Can you imagine apple engineers developing the next generation macOS on an iPad, it's laughable. I work in product development (think solid works etc), it 100% requires a mouse, the actions of a multitouch display and/or apple pencil would take 5x longer. I also have to do a lot of programming, and running those programs is very cpu intensive.

I just can't see how apple can keep going on down this route and if they do then it's with a heavy heart that I'll get a computer from someone else and either a) run hackintosh or b) just move to linux
 
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