Anyone else abandoning ship?

[ThisBougieLife]

I can't abandon ship because I'm too deep into the ecosystem and I just really really dislike Windows

But man, seeing all the awesome Windows laptops available now makes me strongly consider it. It's macOS that keeps from jumping ship. But this fall when I tried to upgrade my 2016 MBP and my new 2018 MBP had screen flickering problems that made me send it back (not to mention the fear of T2 crashes), I questioned why I'm even committed to the BugBook Pro anymore.

I think Macs have much potential to be better, but I just see Apple putting all their effort into iPhones and iOS (understandable, given how much of their revenue it is) and I'm not too optimistic about the future.

 

[SDColorado]

. .. I questioned why I'm even committed to the BugBook Pro anymore.

I wonder the same thing. After I had the "E" key become temporarily unresponsive I sent a lengthy email off to Cook/Schiller/Bunch and receive an email/phone call from someone at Executive Relations wanting me to call to discuss my issues. I don't expect much to come of it since there is no magic wand they can wave to guarantee the issue won't re-occur. But maybe it is at least an opportunity to discuss the frustration/dissatisfaction with the current state.

I can't believe I am on #5 and still experiencing issues. You expect that with cheap netbooks, but not with laptops costing over $4K. This was the only one to make it past the return period without issue. Even if you are a fan of Apple, MacOS, and the eco, there comes a point where you have to wonder where you draw the line in the sand and say enough is enough.

Yeah, I have seen the statistics about 1 in 3 fail within the first year, etc. But 5 out of 5 with issues? All but one within the return period and this one within 2 months? Come on, this is outside the "norm."

 

[tomscott1988]

I can't abandon ship because I'm too deep into the ecosystem and I just really really dislike Windows

But man, seeing all the awesome Windows laptops available now makes me strongly consider it. It's macOS that keeps from jumping ship. But this fall when I tried to upgrade my 2016 MBP and my new 2018 MBP had screen flickering problems that made me send it back (not to mention the fear of T2 crashes), I questioned why I'm even committed to the BugBook Pro anymore.

I think Macs have much potential to be better, but I just see Apple putting all their effort into iPhones and iOS (understandable, given how much of their revenue it is) and I'm not too optimistic about the future.

I work for an agency and have been an Apple user for 10+ years until 2 years ago my agency moved to windows because the 2015 iMac and the 2013 mac pro were not worth buying at that time in their life span.

I have to be honest its been a rather pleasant experience as long as you do a little opt in and out with bits and pieces, get it running right. Obviously thats the reason you buy a mac because it just works but it doesnt take much to get it running like clockwork.

It can be a really good experience and guess what all my apps Adobe Suite run stupid fast because the hardware is tailored. Certain apps like premier and lightroom are blazing fast and ive never had close to that experience on a mac.

Im all in Apple at home still but im using ancient hardware because apple hasn't made anything that A. is a direct replacement and B. isnt 30-40% more expensive than the machines im using.

Its getting to the point where everything needs replacing and I just dont want to give apple the money.

I bought a 2015 macbook because my i7 macbook air was stolen. The 2015 macbook is woeful in comparison in terms of speed but its size, battery life and screen are awesome for casual browsing, social media and the odd photo edit and I use my mac pro for the heavier lifting. Its so small and light that there is almost 0 penalty to take it everywhere with you.

Funnily enough I bought it used for £650 at a year old and it had apple care. I haven't had a single keyboard issue.... But I dont eat over it and its always clean but i dont go out of my way to baby it. I dont find it offensive to use and type on.

Im a 2 machine kind of guy I like a lightweight laptop and a desktop as I find myself more productive at the desk. My ideal machines would be a 2012 mac pro with all the latest and greatest and a 15" version of the macbook with 2 TB3 ports and a low power quad processor that would bench at 4-5k single and 12-15k multi.

There's not really a reason that why the biggest screen size should be £4-5k what about people who just want a bigger display but dont need the power?

 

[Cashmonee]

I'm not going to miss that integration one bit:
1. Messages - yeah, this is cool and works well, although I'm getting an average of 0.1 iMessage a day.
2. Calls - almost never works, usually when I click accept the call disconnects and I fumble to find my phone and call back whoever it was. When it actually connects I sound supposedly like deep inside a water well, quiet with some reverb or echo added and I'm asked to call back again, this time using a phone.
3. Handoff - I don't always do real work on the phone or tablet, but when I do, the stuff I was working on is already synced to the cloud and dowloaded to laptop by the time I put the phone down, and the same the other way around. Not to mention that while it works well with native apps (which I don't use) you need to have a matching pair of third party apps and I was having issues to make it work consistently in such scenario, even if it was only to see if it works.
4. Clipboard - never used, have trouble imagining a situation that would require it.
5. Instant Hotspot - come on, that's two gestures on the phone to open up regular hotspot. I'd be ashamed to even market it as a feature.

Did I miss something? Or maybe I'm just not using it right.

AirPlay, AirDrop, Keychain sync, and sharing of things like WiFi passwords. Oh and using one device to set up another. There are probably more. I am not saying that you personally use them or anything, and if you don't then the allure of Apple is definitely much smaller. However, those that take advantage of it see it as a real impediment to leaving.

 

[Mendota]

Paint me embarrassed.

I'm talking about the Surface Book 2 because Surface has a line up that's just as confusing as the iPad lineup or the MacBook Pro lineup.

edit:
wow, 3:2 aspect ratio. cool

Surfacebook 2 is also quad core.

From Microsoft:View this table for all of the Surface Book 2 tech specs. Everything you need to know about unleashing the power of Surface Book 2 can be found right here. ... 8th Gen Intel® Core™ i7-8650U quad-core processor, 4.2GHz Max Turbo ... Surface Book 2 is the most powerful Surface ever. And to complete that experience, we’ve designed accessories ...
[doublepost=1548996105][/doublepost]

That dell doesn't even have anything more than a 1080p display. At least Apple is giving info on how to resolve the issue before taking it to the Apple store. That reminds me is there a dell store? Oh no they just have mail in options. One more benefit to Apple. I enjoy your point of view though. Cheers.
[doublepost=1548086677][/doublepost]

How many of those have anything higher than 1080p on its base entry level model?
[doublepost=1548086769][/doublepost]

I have and always will be team Apple.

Every one of them does. You need to get out and look around more. Really you do. Team Apple? That says it all. Try some critical thinking and be a little more open minded or at least informed.
[doublepost=1548996981][/doublepost]

Cool so attack me then because that is what this surely feels like. I guess I can never add anything else to the discussion then because I am hemmed into what it was initially about and that's it. No wonder people try to kill themselves because of situations online because if you folks are going to pitchfork and torch them to this point why would they even want to live? I'm done with this and please leave me alone because I don't like your attitude.
[doublepost=1548101592][/doublepost]

It is because you sit there and say Apple offers no value? Yet Plastic Cases, 1080p displays, non ssd drives for 999 or less? and thats value? Makes no sense. Why the hell would someone want that cheap **** and how is that actual value? Enjoy your lives and how can I actually cancel my account to get away from this toxicness?

Good heavens! Calm down, there is no reason to get this upset. It is nice to be an Apple fan, I enjoy MacOS myself when I boot it up from time to time, and if you prefer it fine. But you don't have to run something else down to prove your love for another. If threads like this upset you, don't visit them. Go to threads where people are discussing their happiness. You don't have to cancel your account.

 

[Queen6]

Yeah, I know what you mean, I've been using Macs intermittently since he Mac SE, and full bore at the iMac Bondi Blue days. I don't even know how many years that is. I'm surprised I lasted this long, but I think that was because I fell into the frog/tepid water trick. Now that I'm on the outside looking in, I have to say how much better other laptops are.

I went backwards & forwards for over a year about switching to W10 in the end my only regret was not doing it sooner. I kept hoping Apple would actually produce a good reliable MBP, resolve issues in the OS, they didn't. Apple obviously either doesn't care or has other agenda.

W10 is both more technical and more competent with the hardware options off the scale. To return to Apple they would have to do something absolutely amazing and I don't mean Tim & Co's de facto hyperbole, I mean something substantial. It wont happen under current management, sadly we all know that, just ever more of the same trite nonsense...

Q-6

 

[Donnation]

I feel your pain OP. I’m back to using my 2015 MacBook Pro because my 2017 has so many issues with the keyboard. It’s come back twice supposedly fixed now but I get a weird double type on my keyboard far too often and it drives me nuts.

From what iFixit says too the stage light effect is unavoidable and will at some point happen, which is extremely disappointing although it hasn’t happened to mine yet.

To me, the 2015 model is the best laptop ever made and it’s a shame that Apple chose design over function to such an extreme that it’s making their newer models unusable.

I do think the new models are beautiful and I love the footprint of them, but there are so many things the 2015 and below do better.

 

[jerryk]

I went backwards & forwards for over a year about switching to W10 in the end my only regret was not doing it sooner. I kept hoping Apple would actually produce a good reliable MBP, resolve issues in the OS, they didn't. Apple obviously either doesn't care or has other agenda.

W10 is both more technical and more competent with the hardware options off the scale. To return to Apple they would have to do something absolutely amazing and I don't mean Tim & Co's de facto hyperbole, I mean something substantial. It wont happen under current management we all know that...

Q-6

The hardware options are important to me. Apple needs to start running Nvidia or I am gone.

 

[Queen6]

The hardware options are important to me. Apple needs to start running Nvidia or I am gone.

Best start looking then Apple's head is firmly up it's ass with that one. For me Apple doesn't produce a competent computer, they are all flaky on multiple levels....

Q-6

 

[jlyanks85]

Windows isn’t perfect either. I’ve had nothing but issues with windows computers throughout my life with hardware failures and viruses. Yet with Apple Ive never had any problems with their computers.

I do agree though that customers, shouldn’t come across this many issues spending 3k+ on a laptop.

 

[AndyMacAndMic]

Windows isn’t perfect either. I’ve had nothing but issues with windows computers throughout my life with hardware failures and viruses. Yet with Apple Ive never had any problems with their computers.

I do agree though that customers, shouldn’t come across this many issues spending 3k+ on a laptop.

Who claimed Windows is perfect?
BTW hardware failures have nothing to do with Windows. If you buy a cheapo computer hardware failures are bound to happen. Don't mix up hardware and operating systems.

 

[jlyanks85]

Who claimed Windows is perfect?
BTW hardware failures have nothing to do with Windows. If you buy a cheapo computer hardware failures are bound to happen. Don't mix up hardware and operating systems.

I’ve had expensive windows computers fail on me as well. It’s been a while though since I’ve owned one, so it could be different.

 

[AndyMacAndMic]

Who claimed Windows is perfect?

I’ve had expensive windows computers that have failed on me as well.

And that is still hardware. Again what has that to do with an operating system? I had expensive Mac's failing on me as well. Do I blame MacOs because of a defective Macbook? Of course I don't. Problems happens on both sides.

Please do not try to turn this discussion in some kind of Mac vs Windows blame game. Until now this thread was steering clear of that.

 

[jerryk]

Windows isn’t perfect either. I’ve had nothing but issues with windows computers throughout my life with hardware failures and viruses. Yet with Apple Ive never had any problems with their computers.

I do agree though that customers, shouldn’t come across this many issues spending 3k+ on a laptop.

I use Windows, Linux, and Mac systems every day. Never had a virus. However, I have had browser popups on all 3, but that is due to my error, clicked link to sketchy site.

 

[jlyanks85]

And that is still hardware. Again what has that to do with an operating system? I had expensive Mac's failing on me as well. Do I blame MacOs because of a defective Macbook? Of course I don't. **** happens on both sides.

Please do not try to turn this discussion in some kind of Mac vs Windows blame game. Until now this thread was steering clear of that.

I’m not and I will stop posting in here if it came to that. I’m just saying I’ve had bad experiences with windows the operating system and hardware that is all. Won’t go any further than that.

 

[jerryk]

Best start looking then Apple's head is firmly up it's ass with that one. For me Apple doesn't produce a competent computer, they are all flaky on multiple levels....

Q-6

The whole Nvidia thing is bad blood between the two companies. But because of it I can only use my 2018 MBP for lower compute requirement applications. When I need to do AI/ML I switch to my windows desktop with Nvidia cards or a server farm.

 

[Queen6]

The whole Nvidia thing is bad blood between the two companies. But because of it I can only use my 2018 MBP for lower compute requirement applications. When I need to do AI/ML I switch to my windows desktop with Nvidia cards or a server farm.

I wholeheartedly agree and we the users suffer. To be brutally honest it's simply unacceptable, Apple needs to start serving it's customer's as frankly that's it's position. Knock off the hubris and deliver, it's beyond old at this point in time...

A server farm is by far the best alternative, equally sometimes one just wants/needs to deal with things locally and that rules out any Mac as Apple is so pig headed. TBH Apple is fast becoming a joke in many professional circles and will likely be ridiculed ever further for the same.

I have little doubt Apple made heavily biased "demands" to NVIDA, in turn NVIDA gave Apple the finger as they have no shortage of business. The AMD GPU's are great for performance per Watt, equally they significantly lack performance.

In another thread I said "I have no issue with a 230W power brick as I have 230W of performance" all Apple produces now is pretty ultrabooks that are both power & thermally limited, nor are the desktops much better...

Q-6
[doublepost=1549038628][/doublepost]

I’ve had expensive windows computers fail on me as well. It’s been a while though since I’ve owned one, so it could be different.

I've had multiple expensive Mac's fail on me, so what's the difference? As a big fan of the Mac I was speaking with a friend who is an IT manager of a major multinational. His opinion was that Mac's are more reliable as the vast majority of users hardly ever push the systems, therefore they are rarely stressed, he might just have a point.

To date I've never had an equivalently priced Windows notebook fail on me, and my hardware gets hammered especially in the field on engineering projects. Both personally & professionally I find it beyond disappointing the direction Apple has taken the Mac. The Mac should be the pinnacle of both software & hardware engineering, not a lifestyle statement..

Q-6

 

[Falhófnir]

The whole Nvidia thing is bad blood between the two companies. But because of it I can only use my 2018 MBP for lower compute requirement applications. When I need to do AI/ML I switch to my windows desktop with Nvidia cards or a server farm.

They seem to be making a habit of it (see: Qualcomm) - perhaps if Apple didn't try to throw their weight around quite so unreasonably on component prices they wouldn't have such issues when the braver suppliers bite back? Getting a 'good' deal on components they have to buy in is one thing, but trying to sit on the suppliers to accept wafer thin profits themselves so Apple can pad theirs out a bit more certainly isn't a laudable business practise...

 

[Queen6]

They seem to be making a habit of it (see: Qualcomm) - perhaps if Apple didn't try to throw their weight around quite so unreasonably on component prices they wouldn't have such issues when the braver suppliers bite back? Getting a 'good' deal on components they have to buy in is one thing, but trying to sit on the suppliers to accept wafer thin profits themselves so Apple can pad theirs out a bit more certainly isn't a laudable business practise...

Apple is very simple it uses it's oppressive economy of scale, take it or leave it for better words. The few I know who deal with Apple directly at this level truly hate dealing with Apple, for good reason. Personally I'd tell Apple to take the long walk as I would never be mandated in such a manner. A good product/service will always sell.

TLDR Apple want's all the toy's in it's cot and is far from willing to share...

Q-6

 

[Mendota]

And yet it will still outperform any Windows workstation laptop with comparable form factor. People really have very broad definition of "overheating" these days. The system runs at its nominal spec and nominal safe temperature - "OMG, ITS OVERHEATING!". The system runs 20% slower than a laptop three times the weight which operates the CPU at 2x TDP - "OMD, ITS OVERHEATING!". You get the point.

That is simply not true. When it gets to the point that you need to make things up in order to justify Apple... If you like Apple fine, but you need to stop with the misinformation.

 

[DickieSmith]

I'm getting there - I stay for macOS, I could be tempted to leave because of the quality.

I had a late 2013 MBP Retina 15" and I had no issues with it ever. Unfortunately it didn't have the power I needed for work anymore so gave to my nephew and bought the new one.

Had to have it replaced less than 2 weeks in. bridgeOS crashes, RAM not freeing up meaning I could just have finder open and fans still going crazy until a restart, SSD space not being released so in a short time I had no space left despite only having 150GB of non-system files on my 500GB drive. Wouldn't recognise the power cable much of the time.

My replacement has been better but far from perfect. Strange rectangle outlines appearing on the screen (have to reset SMC periodically to avoid), web browsers (safari mostly but also chrome and Firefox) suddenly become unresponsive when I click any button or in the URL bar and I have to restart (often losing work) to get them working again. And last week I had first brush with the inevitable keyboard issue. Thankfully a can of compressed air worked, but not impressed.

Mac's used to mean paying for quality. Now I'm paying just to use the OS.

 

[ThisBougieLife]

Mac's used to mean paying for quality. Now I'm paying just to use the OS.

Sadly that seems to be true as Macs becomes less and less important to Apple. I think with the iPhone, you are paying for quality. I think the iPhone is the best smartphone out there.

But with the Mac, I feel like it's just a device that uses macOS and if there were other macOS devices out there, I wouldn't necessarily choose the Mac.

 

[idonthatethemac]

I wholeheartedly agree and we the users suffer. To be brutally honest it's simply unacceptable, Apple needs to start serving it's customer's as frankly that's it's position. Knock off the hubris and deliver, it's beyond old at this point in time...

A server farm is by far the best alternative, equally sometimes one just wants/needs to deal with things locally and that rules out any Mac as Apple is so pig headed. TBH Apple is fast becoming a joke in many professional circles and will likely be ridiculed ever further for the same.

I have little doubt Apple made heavily biased "demands" to NVIDA, in turn NVIDA gave Apple the finger as they have no shortage of business. The AMD GPU's are great for performance per Watt, equally they significantly lack performance.

In another thread I said "I have no issue with a 230W power brick as I have 230W of performance" all Apple produces now is pretty ultrabooks that are both power & thermally limited, nor are the desktops much better...

Q-6
[doublepost=1549038628][/doublepost]

I've had multiple expensive Mac's fail on me, so what's the difference? As a big fan of the Mac I was speaking with a friend who is an IT manager of a major multinational. His opinion was that Mac's are more reliable as the vast majority of users hardly ever push the systems, therefore they are rarely stressed, he might just have a point.

To date I've never had an equivalently priced Windows notebook fail on me, and my hardware gets hammered especially in the field on engineering projects. Both personally & professionally I find it beyond disappointing the direction Apple has taken the Mac. The Mac should be the pinnacle of both software & hardware engineering, not a lifestyle statement..

Q-6

I think with Apple squeezing their suppliers on the cost, and the suppliers skimping on the quality of materials to just make do with whatever profit they can make... these issues are bound to happen.

Apple might pull through on their brand name for a few years, but if things dont improve. Well.. mac might die. Apple will survive (and possibly thrive) off the phone and other gadgets. Well. A lot of possibilities

 

[SDColorado]

... web browsers (safari mostly but also chrome and Firefox) suddenly become unresponsive when I click any button or in the URL bar and I have to restart (often losing work) to get them working again.

I have had that issue repeatedly with Safari as well. I haven't bothered to troubleshoot it since I rarely use Safari. But it just freezes as you describe until you reset. I definitely can't blame that on the machine, but something is not right with it. Been using mostly Vivaldi, so not sure how it would behave with Firefox.

I definitely can relate to your frustration though.

 

[jerryk]

Apple is very simple it uses it's oppressive economy of scale, take it or leave it for better words. The few I know who deal with Apple directly at this level truly hate dealing with Apple, for good reason. Personally I'd tell Apple to take the long walk as I would never be mandated in such a manner. A good product/service will always sell.

TLDR Apple want's all the toy's in it's cot and is far from willing to share...

Q-6

This is not new. They have been doing it for decades. Even in the early Mac days suppliers complained about Jobs and how he expected them to make pennies of profits. Some suppliers refused to business with Apple because of this attitude.