Anyone else abandoning ship?

[CE3]

The MPB, 15" 2.2GHz, 6-core, 8th gen i7 MBP, keeping it at 16GBs and upping the SSD to 512GBs is $2600. A very powerful workstation.

One comparable Windows PC is the Dell XPS 15, with the same processor, RAM, storage, and a comparable GPU for $1500. A 40% difference in price. This is pretty much how it is all across the various selections, regardless of 13" or 15".

Understanding that someone would have subjective reasons for preferring the Mac, I doubt there are any objective benchmarks that would indicate that the MBP is 40% better at anything than the Dell.

The MBP model with the 2.6 (8850H) i7, 512 SSD and 16GB of RAM is currently going for $2399 on Amazon, and that sale has been reappearing a lot this year. I went with the 2.2 base model and got it on sale from another retailer for $2100 after tax. Mac sales do happen. Yes, they’ll still likely be more costly than most comparable Windows machines, but sometimes it’s not by that much.

 

[MBAir2010]

The MPB, 15" 2.2GHz, 6-core, 8th gen i7 MBP, keeping it at 16GBs and upping the SSD to 512GBs is $2600. A very powerful workstation.

One comparable Windows PC is the Dell XPS 15, with the same processor, RAM, storage, and a comparable GPU for $1500. A 40% difference in price. This is pretty much how it is all across the various selections, regardless of 13" or 15".

Understanding that someone would have subjective reasons for preferring the Mac, I doubt there are any objective benchmarks that would indicate that the MBP is 40% better at anything than the Dell.

Whereas a macbook air with 128 ssd 8 gb ram is less expensively than a dell xps with the same set up
I was pricing these just this monday, and now they are the same
Side note, checking the price of the macbook air took a minute or less, the dell over 3, and im not sure that was the model i want, no choice for material umm body casesing or a pick up option. And over 30 accessories dell forced down my throats!

 

[ADGrant]

Theres always used macs...

Or just keep the Mac you already have (if you like your Mac, you can keep your Mac). Unless you are video editing using the Adobe software or you have a hard drive instead of an SSD, what you have probably works fine.
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Or, I could get a much more powerful device running windows. But thanks.

Your more powerful device may not actually be faster to use. For me both the consistent UI and consistent keyboard shortcuts often help me get things done much more quickly on a Mac. The Mac Terminal app is a great example of this. Simple, fast and with the same cut and paste keyboard short cuts as every other Mac app.

 

[booksbooks]

Well at least now that you have explained your bios and jealousy I don't have to wonder anymore about where you resentment is coming from. Clearly you want to blame Microsoft for Apple's issues over the years, well that is on Apple and their business practices have been quite questionable as well. But at the end of the day, it doesn't matter. Apple issues are on them. This thread exist because of Apple's shady practices. And they have always been shady, it is just now beginning to catch up with them again. They well either fix the problems or not

And there is nothing you can substantiate for me. I have been around since the beginning and I know full well the story of both companies.

At the end of the day, putting white and black hats on companies is pointless
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None of what you are saying is fact. And most of it is untrue. You keep trying to imply that your "opinion" is somehow gospel or fact. It is not. And your attempts to say it over and over doesn't change anything.

How is it not fact and how is it untrue.

You keep erecting strawmen. You keep arguing.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

Or just keep the Mac you already have (if you like your Mac, you can keep your Mac). Unless you are video editing using the Adobe software or you have a hard drive instead of an SSD, what you have probably works fine.
[doublepost=1553820578][/doublepost]

Your more powerful device may not actually be faster to use. For me both the consistent UI and consistent keyboard shortcuts often help me get things done much more quickly on a Mac. The Mac Terminal app is a great example of this. Simple, fast and with the same cut and paste keyboard short cuts as every other Mac app.

I use cmder to do the same in windows. But look, I am not going to sit here and try to claim that they are exactly the same software-wise. All I will say is that even if the machine that is 40% faster and hundreds of dollars cheaper is roughly the same speed with mostly the same software, that seems like a win to me? No one is saying that it is a win for you.

However, if we go there, my Surface Pro 2017 allows me to take handwritten notes in OneNote--with my Surface Pen, use the entire MS Office suite natively (especially great for complex formulas in Excel), still use Scrivener--not quite as good, Wunderlist, Pencil (with the Pen again), Clip Studio Pro (with the Pen again), Wordpress, Affinity Photo (you guessed it--Pen), Affinity Designer (Pen), Plex, Readiy (RSS), Krita (Pen), Paprika, Visual Studio Code, Campaign Cartographer 3, MusicBee (and iTunes to download only), Plex as a client to our movie server, Enpass, eh, you get the idea. All these work fine on my Surface Pro, which I can then take on all my business trips. Works awesome.

Edited to add: and if we go with my Hackintosh which now just runs Windows 10, I can run any steam, origin, blizzard game out there, and do. No limitations. I also have added more RAM and swapped out the video card and SSD. Can't do that on anything in Apple's line up without paying thousands more than I did at $1500.

That said, I do miss the elegance of the mac OS and apps such as native Scrivener and Omnifocus. Overall though, not enough--definitely not at the prices I was paying...no true gaming.

 

[jeremiah256]

Whereas a macbook air with 128 ssd 8 gb ram is less expensively than a dell xps with the same set up
I was pricing these just this monday, and now they are the same
Side note, checking the price of the macbook air took a minute or less, the dell over 3, and im not sure that was the model i want, no choice for material umm body casesing or a pick up option. And over 30 accessories dell forced down my throats!

No comment on which company has the better buying experience. Apple will almost always win that battle.

Location might be playing a part in what we're seeing. Where I'm from (Japan) I'm seeing the similarly configured XPS 13" (w/Touchscreen) but with 256GBs vice 128GBs for about $50 less. Plus, again, you can upgrade the SSD.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

This seems like it might apply to the conversation:

https://motherboard.vice.com/amp/en...e-of-implementing-right-to-repair-legislation

 

[thevault]

 

[Queen6]

I know, sad isn’t it? I have been using Mac since the iBook days. And here we are.

That's the point many miss...

Q-6

 

[hariztek]

After having a keyboard issue and then motherboard issue on my 2016 MacBook Pro 15"

Now it's out of warranty and I started having flexgate issue on march 26 2019
On March 27 2019 i wen't to service centre and they are charging me INR 60,000 which is USD 870 just to replace screen when I showed them posts on internet regarding the issue they just said that "there are many false posts on internet" and we don't know anything about this issue, that means unless I pay for their design flaw they won't replace the screen as they don't yet have any programs for display issues.

 

[Queen6]

After having a keyboard issue and then motherboard issue on my 2016 MacBook Pro 15"

Now it's out of warranty and I started having flexgate issue on march 26 2019
On March 27 2019 i wen't to service centre and they are charging me INR 60,000 which is USD 870 just to replace screen when I showed them posts on internet regarding the issue they just said that "there are many false posts on internet" and we don't know anything about this issue, that means unless I pay for their design flaw they won't replace the screen as they don't yet have any programs for display issues.

Apple's staff IMO are "programmed" to lie to the customer, every single time the product is challenged. When I've engaged with them is always the same nonsense, never a problem even with GPU's and keyboards failing in significant numbers and extended warranty programs in place they will still blatantly lie.

Q-6

 

[Never mind]

The MBP model with the 2.6 (8850H) i7, 512 SSD and 16GB of RAM is currently going for $2399 on Amazon, and that sale has been reappearing a lot this year. I went with the 2.2 base model and got it on sale from another retailer for $2100 after tax. Mac sales do happen. Yes, they’ll still likely be more costly than most comparable Windows machines, but sometimes it’s not by that much.

Actually you did not mention tax nor extended warranty on the first 8850H system from Amazon. Not to mention the graphics card. That would put it much higher. $379 for AppleCare+ alone, about 6% tax if not more and it's about $3000 bucks. My X1 Extreme (8750 CPU+32 GB memory + 1050 GPU) cost $2,188.00 with 7% tax +3 yrs warranty.

 

[PeterJP]

The MBP model with the 2.6 (8850H) i7, 512 SSD and 16GB of RAM is currently going for $2399 on Amazon, and that sale has been reappearing a lot this year. I went with the 2.2 base model and got it on sale from another retailer for $2100 after tax. Mac sales do happen. Yes, they’ll still likely be more costly than most comparable Windows machines, but sometimes it’s not by that much.

The base models can be bought here at discounts, too. However, if I want 32GB RAM or any other upgrade, there are no discounts. Because the discounts are about €500 and the 32GB RAM upgrade is about €500, the actual upgrade cost then totals €1000. Same goes for the SSD or GPU upgrades: they're all way more expensive in real life, comparing them to the discounted base models.

That's why I'm hoping the rumoured 16" MBP will have a 32GB base model

BTW, for the price of a 32GB/1TB/Vega20 MBP, I can get a Lenovo P52 with 128GB of memory and 2TB SSD. Not that I need that, but if you know how expensive these high-end upgrades are, it's a good indication.

 

[Newtons Apple]

I am afraid I did abandon ship and sold my 2018 MBPro 15.

Apple has made too many sacrifices for the sake of thin! Thin is not as important to me than dependable performance. They could double the thickness and it could have been so much more.

Apple users have paid a price for Apple's obsession with thin.

 

[maflynn]

I am afraid I did abandon ship and sold my 2018 MBPro 15.

Bummers man - what did you get in its place?

 

[Newtons Apple]

Bummers man - what did you get in its place?

I went back to ThinkPad with a laptop workstation with Zeon CPU. I did only Windows on my MBPro so it was not hard to go back to a Windows machine. AutoCad seems more happy on the ThinkPad.

 

[cardfan]

I am afraid I did abandon ship and sold my 2018 MBPro 15.

Apple has made too many sacrifices for the sake of thin! This is not as important to me than dependable performance.

Apple users have paid a price for Apple's obsession with thin.

Haven’t abandoned ship but did abandon Apple laptops (and also iPads as a result) for a surface pro.

That’ll probably leave me enough to switch to a Mac Pro or an updated iMac pro later as well. Assuming Apple doesn’t kill it first.

 

[Newtons Apple]

Haven’t abandoned ship but did abandon Apple laptops (and also iPads as a result) for a surface pro.

That’ll probably leave me enough to switch to a Mac Pro or an updated iMac pro later as well. Assuming Apple doesn’t kill it first.

Do not get me wrong, I am PRO Apple and have only given up on their laptops. My MAX and 11 iPad Pro still rule!

 

[maflynn]

I went back to ThinkPad

The quality difference between the Thinkpad and the MBP is quite startk and in some ways quite sad. I fought leaving the Mac platform, but I felt I had no other choice.

I'm quite pleased and happy with my Thinkpad.

 

[Newtons Apple]

The quality difference between the Thinkpad and the MBP is quite startk and in some ways quite sad. I fought leaving the Mac platform, but I felt I had no other choice.

I'm quite pleased and happy with my Thinkpad.

Agreed. The Thinkpad has lots of ports and make using AutoCad easy for me. My accelerator/digitizer pad never liked the MBPro and would go crazy at times.

All is good now.

Have a great weekend!

 

[EdwardC]

I went back to ThinkPad with a laptop workstation with Zeon CPU. I did only Windows on my MBPro so it was not hard to go back to a Windows machine. AutoCad seems more happy on the ThinkPad.

I have found the Windows version of AutoCAD LT to be MUCH better than the MacOS version in my humble opinion.

 

[maflynn]

I have found the Windows version of AutoCAD LT to be MUCH better than the MacOS version in my humble opinion.

Adobe apps run better in Windows as well, and this is my personal opinion, but MS office works better. I use excel a lot and I feel the windows version looks, feels and handles things better in windows.

 

[MBAir2010]

I am afraid I did abandon ship and sold my 2018 MBPro 15.

Apple has made too many sacrifices for the sake of thin! Thin is not as important to me than dependable performance. They could double the thickness and it could have been so much more.

Apple users have paid a price for Apple's obsession with thin.

windows gathers, and now his switch begins. It shall not end until his death. he shall take no iTunes, hold no icloud, he shall wear no  and win no glory. he shall confidently type in post. and flee Mojave in the darkness. he is the watcher on the windows. the shield that guards the realms of internets. he pledged hs life and honor to the  Watch, for this night and all the nights has ended, and now his  has ended!

 

[CE3]

Actually you did not mention tax nor extended warranty on the first 8850H system from Amazon. Not to mention the graphics card. That would put it much higher. $379 for AppleCare+ alone, about 6% tax if not more and it's about $3000 bucks. My X1 Extreme (8750 CPU+32 GB memory + 1050 GPU) cost $2,188.00 with 7% tax +3 yrs warranty.

Didn’t you get the 16GB configuration? I remember talking to you in the X1E thread about a RAM upgrade.

I didn’t mention the $400 I spent on AppleCare+ for my model, either.

I’m not denying that the MacBooks are more expensive, but finding good deals on Apple computers isn’t an uncommon occurrence.

I’d definitely like to see Apple lower prices for upgrades and make laptop components like RAM and SSDs user upgradable again. I believe that as both “right to repair” legislation and our knowledge of the environmental impacts of e-waste grows, this will happen whether they want it to or not.

But anyway.. despite my new MacBook having less RAM, less storage, and the 8750H over the 8850H the X1E I previously owned had, for my usage I’m getting better performance, better battery life, a better display (as you know I had problems with my X1E display - the Spectre x360 display, on the other hand, was as good as the MacBook’s ), better speakers, and access to software apps I use like Final Cut & Logic.

Don’t get me wrong, there was a lot I liked about my experience with the Lenovo X1E & the HP Spectre x360 I tried (the latter was probably the better fit for me on the Windows side), but again I’m getting quicker and smoother performance on the MacBook where it counts.

Apple definitely has its shortcomings, but there’s still a lot to love about their computers.

I think some of the people in here “abandoning ship” will realize this and come back.

 

[leman]

None of what you are saying is fact. And most of it is untrue. You keep trying to imply that your "opinion" is somehow gospel or fact. It is not. And your attempts to say it over and over doesn't change anything.

It's funny hat you would accuse other people of "bias and jealousy" but yourself are unable to critically look at a product. First of all, everything that @booksbooks says about the Surface book is factually correct and is either clear from the specs or from independent tests. To add some of my personal criticisms:

- the Surface Book uses a slower 15Watt CPU, which is a design compromise since the tablet part of it simply wouldn't be able to accommodate anything faster

- the Surface Book lacks professional I/O (thunderbolt)

- the Surface Book lacks fast WiFi (as do all Windows laptops though)

- the 13" Surface Book 2 overall volume is comparable to a 15" MBP, and its 50% thicker than the MBP at the hinge: the 15" MBP will fit in slim messenger bags where the Surface Book 2 won't

Overall, its a solid 2-in-1 computer and the fast GPU is a plus (although I still think that pairing a fast GPU and a slow CPU is a strange design), but this computer makes a lot of sacrifices to achieve its 2-in-1 functionality and omits pro-level features (like fast I/O) for no apparent reason.

One comparable Windows PC is the Dell XPS 15, with the same processor, RAM, storage, and a comparable GPU for $1500. A 40% difference in price. This is pretty much how it is all across the various selections, regardless of 13" or 15".

Sure, except Dell's professional version of the XPS is called Precision 5530 and that one currently costs $2,709.00 (on special offer) for comparable config, so more or less identical to the MBP.

Internal construction wise, the MBP is much closer to the Precision and uses more expensive components and a more complex board layout than the XPS (just compare pictures of the logic boards of the two laptops). MBP has more thunderbolt controllers, a hardware GPU multiplexer (like Precision), better WiFi chip, advanced surge protection, custom manufactured GPU (thats not a cheap thing to have), and I don't know what else, not counting custom Apple coprocessors and stuff like the Touch Bar of course.

And please don't get me wrong: I am not trying to claim that the MBP is 40% "better" than the XPS in any regard. I am simply pointing out that the price difference is not just due to Apple charging some arbitrary high amount of money, but because the MBP is actually a significantly more expensive product to make. Whether it makes it any better in practice is a different question and its up to the user whether they want to pay more money for some engineering features they probably won't notice.