You are 100% correct about the MS Office apps. The mac version feels like an afterthought sometimes. There are some serious features missing from it. I kicked out Outlook for that reason and I'm using mac mail now.
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Anyone else abandoning ship?
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I think most of us have imagined scenarios where this could happen. For me it would involve Apple making a 2 in 1 mac. Other scenarios would mostly involve showing the mac some love. Make it thicker, give it some ports, bring magsafe back, AND CHANGE THE KEYBOARD.
Instead I think we will get weaker and weaker Macs as it dies a slow death, mostly to neglect.
PROVE ME WRONG TIM! BRING US THE YEAR OF THE MAC!
Exactly! It's why I went to Thunderbird for email and LibreOffice for word processing. On my laptop they both work very well and no hickups.
I do know that once my 2015 rMBP dies, I will be looking for something different than an laptop. Sad, yet also something to look forward to.
What we have is simply two different visions for how a laptop should be clashing with each other. The way I see the current Macs, they are faster and better than anything Apple has made before, while also being some of the most portable machines on the market. For what I want from a laptop, any of the things you suggest will be a clear regression.
And funnily enough, for me, the downfall of Apple will be the day when they make a 2-in-1....
Subjectively that might be your opinion, but objectively there are plenty of faster laptops that are not much larger/heavier then the MBP. Back in 2012, with the first retina MBP, I would agree with you, in that Apple provided a fast machine that was at the pinnacle of design, but since then other makers have caught up and surpassed. Only until recently has Apple started using GPUs that had a semblance of performance.
I have to disagree, the high volume of complaints on the keyboards three years and running, the problem with flexgate (possibly only limited to 2016 models), and apple's own apology fly in the face of the idea that this is the best laptop that apple has ever made. The evidence is quite compelling to say the opposite.
Agreed, apple's obsession with thin has made it thinness has produced a highly portable machine, no question. I found the battery life to be the best, and it was a joy to travel with. The downsides are impediments for many people where many people are of the opinion that these machines are too thin, loss of ports, loss of magsafe, increased heat all point to a design that is too thin.
Personal opinion and as long as you're happy with your purchase that's all that counts, but to try to state that the machines are objectively superior is in error in my opinion. Whether we're talking about benchmarks, ports, or resolutions on displays. Apple has been leap frogged by the competition.
Well, in my post I was comparing Apple to Apple (I did write "faster and better than what Apple made before"), so I don't see how it contradicts your statement about faster laptops being available.
I would however argue that the MBP, with its 4 universal ports is strictly superior in terms of both I/O flexibility and total connectivity to any other laptop. I doubt that are many laptops in comparable form factors that can support similar amount of displays/fast storage/external GPUs etc. simultaneously. In my opinion, just considering the number of ports and ignoring the provided functionality is just as naive as to only consider display resolution but ignore image quality, colourspace, contrast and energy efficiency.
I misunderstood that, and my apologies.
Flexibility yes, ease of use, may be not as much. Take the SD card reader, life's a lot easier to just slap the sd card in the laptop instead of needing to remember to bring a reader. Magsafe, I can't tell you how many times that saved my laptop in the past, and granted the laptop I have no doesn't have it. I loved that design and the protection it afforded.
i disagree, there are many machines out there that may be mere millimeters larger or grams heavier but offer better GPUs, CPUs that run faster or are able to run at sustained speeds longer then the MBP, and almost all computer makers offer 4k, which surpasses the resolution of the MBP. Apple's color and brightness is one of the best, no question but resolution wise, the industry has moved on (or is moving) to 4k.
Yesterday I retired the Thunderbolt dock I used with MBP. With GS65 I can just directly connect two displays, ethernet, keyboard and mouse. No dongles, no docks, no additional power adapters, no additional cables. No need for additional storage either, two NVMe SSDs inside for 4TB total, my backup drive is networked. I retired the eGPU enclosure also, for now at least, the internal RTX2060 turns out to be about as fast as VEGA FE in eGPU. I'm not sure what's so superior about MBP.
There is no strawman in my points. You are just ignoring them because they cannot be disproved. I doubt if you even know what the definition of "strawman" is, because you are using the term incorrectly.
And there is no point in further discussion with you, and I refuse to derail the thread. Have a good day using whatever you prefer.
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The Surface Book is designed for particular purposes. No one who chooses it cares that it is thicker. Again with the obsession on looks. No one who buys Surface Book cares about thunderbolt or else they would buy something else. The number one reason Apple users care is to use an egpu. Something that is unnecessary on Surface Book. My preference is based on my use. I like the Book for what it does for me. I like to paint, and every product I own, with the exception of the MacBook allows me to do that. I also like to game on occasion and the Book works quite well for that.
None of the things you mention about MacBook or Dell have any meaning to me or anyone who choose the Book... I don't know why that is such an issue for either of you to grasp. As for power I use my desktop workstation that blows the doors off any laptop. I don't need excessive power in my laptops. I need them to be reliable and I want to draw on them. In Apple's world I use iPad.
I think Apple could make a laptop with the 2015 design and dimensions and just upgrade the specs and call it Macbook Classic. Keep the Pro line for the thin-and-light sheeples all you want, just give that option those who want it.
Very little of relevance in the real world of needing to get work done, unless one is locked in to OS X. Mac's remain to have superior battery life in general, build quality is out the window thx to numerous design issues that Apple is yet to fully rectify or even acknowledge.
Once you adjust to W10 and it's quirks, what is abundantly clear is the sheer performance on tap, the usability, the scalability and the choice. For the sake of a few millimetres and a few grams you get all this and far more, yet Apple is incapable of designing a notebook that has a reliable keyboard and doesn't throttle back under any remotely sustained load, this is the best Apple can do in 2019
For those that really need performance on a portable platform this is exactly why people are Abandoning Ship
Thysanoptera's numbers are pushing/exceeding mine and the MSI GS65 is categorically a thin & light 15" notebook
FWIW ASUS ROG GL703GS - 8750H, 32GB @2666, GTX 1070, NVMe SSD & SSHD (replacing with 2TB SSD), 3 year OEM warranty, ball busting performance
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I find it really interesting that the Surface products, which are often just as expensive as Macs (sometime more) and just as non-upgradable get so many passes from the MacBook critics in this thread. Those products have had their share of hardware and design issues, too. Surface = Microsoft taking Apple’s playbook and running with it at full speed.
If you forget your dongle, all of those 4 ports are completely useless. Want to connect to projector? A monitor? External keyboard and mice? Ethernet? Nope, sorry, no dongle, no fun.
While I do use TB3 all the time, every day, and I LOVE that one small port, including 4 of them and ditching all other ports is complete stupidity on Apple part. Who uses 4 (four!) TB3 ports at the same time?
For example, on my X1E I get way better thermals then on MBP, way better GPU, two 4-lane TB3 ports, 2 USB-a ports, HDMI, etc.
Way more useful then just having 4 TB3 ports. If I forget a dongle, well, in most cases, I can still use the device wherever I am. And I still get to use eGPU and TB3 docks if I need or want to.
Balance, usability, value, quality and to some extents reliability have long left Apple, substituted by Greed, incompetence, nickel & diming, ********ting, sheer laziness and or general disregard...
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Agreed, I've owned surface products in the past, and was mostly happy with them. My take is that MS does copy apple so much. I find them to be very pricey, though the Surface Go is a relatively inexpensive tablet - inexpensive for MS that is.
Like Apple, I'm shocked that MS used spinning drive Why in the world would Apple and/or MS include a 5400 rpm drive. At least in the Surface Studio2, you now get an SSD, but the iMac is still being marketed with a 5400 rpm drive.
I do feel that the surface products are quality and durable machines, and like Apple's they're virtually sealed and not upgradeable.
Just a technicality - when you use both TB3 ports you're sharing the bandwidth, this is one x4 controller with two ports. So with one TB 3 controller I would connect eGPU to TB3, and use just regular USB 3.1 dock for the rest. I was loosing about 20% eGPU performance when sharing the TB3 controller with other devices.
The reason I like Surface is for years I struggle with horrible so called convertibles. They were heavy, awkward, and had very small screens. The other alternative was to have a separate tablet which on a notebook was tedious. The coming of the Surface pro third gen was a dream come true. I was more than willing to go with the closed non user repairable for the gloriousness of being able to draw and paint on that thin powerful, easy to use surface (no pun intended). And today that machine continues to run as well as ever, going on five years now. I haven't needed to upgrade i7, 8gigs, and wonderful screen. Not for everyone, but definitely for me.
Same I'm leery of such designs, however I did purchase a Surface Book in 2016 and it presented no issues and remains to be so now it's with my daughter. My understanding is MS in the event of issue MS will simply replace with a new machine in the event of an issue.
A factor in the purchase of my Switch 5 was that the M.2 SSD can be removed by removing the rear panel, nor does it compromise portability, as for me the real cost is what's on the drive.
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There are lots of people who purchase MacBooks that present no issues, too, including all the post 2015 models. I'm not sure where your understanding of what sounds like out-of-warranty replacement by Microsoft in the event of an issue is coming from, but their standard warranty service looks pretty standard to me: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4036296/surface-warranty-information
I think one difference is that the Surface issues don’t seem to be something as basic as a problematic keyboard that can’t hold up to a little dust or debris. Another is that MS simply replaces the device is most cases, much like if your phone or iPad fails.
I think some of the frustrations with Apple is the cycle of sending it in, having them replace it with the same problematic part, having it fail again, rinse repeat.
I had to send in my 2013 MBP repeatedly for screen replacement under the Repair Program. Seems some folks have had to do the same with keyboards. The loss of the machine for weeks is an issue. Perhaps if Apple simply handed you a new one every time the keyboard, display or something else failed, they would be more motivated to remedy the issues?
I agree with this. I really wanted to like the HP version of the surface pro, but it cost so much more. I got a good deal on a SP2017 with the pen and type cover. It also had Microsoft Complete through most of 2021--I paid $710. Can you see every getting a deal like that on a mac? Never. Ever. Ever. I am typing on it now. It works great.
I remember the old Gateway convertibles. I had one when I was an instructor in the mid-2000s. It was so bad compared to how awesome the Surface Pro is. I think that is what it comes down to. If you are an artist then you LOVE the surface line compared to what came before (NTrig being the only real drawback, and that is minimized with the latest pen)...
It doesn't get a free pass, instead it is just so much better than an iPad or MacBook when you factor in being able to have real graphics programs combined with only having one device that can do it all.
Can you handle the compromises of that situation? If so, go for the surface. If you would rather have two devices? Go for the laptop and tablet. That has its own set of compromises.
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Also if the keyboard fails, you either get yours replaced or just buy a new type cover. Done!
Personally I had no issue with the Surface Book, so had no recourse to test the repair system. I may be mistaken, equally as my engineering projects now require very different hardware, so I've moved on with the hardware. I do know other members of MR have greater knowledge on the subject of Microsoft's warranty coverage.
As for the MBP, is what it is. You can buy into Apple, equally a quick search reveals that all is far from rosy in the walled garden. What I do know is Microsoft's Surface Book came with a 24 month international warranty and this ASUS has a 24 month international warranty and a 36 month national warranty.
TBH I've better coverage with my Acer Switch 5, which I picked up over an IPP or high end Android tablet as it offers so much more having a full desktop OS. Apple's mostly just "talk" now, and words are meaningless without action...
At best Apple only matches Acers warranty, one cost $650, one would cost $4,250 before tax. Apple's nickel & diming and price gouging is simply insulting.
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I agree that it's not all roses in Appleland, but I bet a quick online search could reveal similar complaints and user horror stories from Surface and all the other major Windows players as well. I know for a fact the first generation SurfaceBook plagued people with blue screen errors, graphics card problems, and other hardware and design issues.
I guess time will tell how my new MacBook Pro will fare. This is my second MacBook Pro.. I also have an iMac, I've owned countess iPads, iPhones, 3 Apple watches, Airpods, Pencil, etc.. and the only actual hardware issue I've had with any of the Apple products I've owned so far was a spot on my 10.5 iPad Pro screen, which Apple replaced at the appointment. So at the end of the day I have to base my final buying decisions on my own personal experience with Apple's products, which has been largely positive and issue-free. Some of you will think I've been lucky, but the complaints and the problems are always more reported and easier to find online (and for good reason a lot of the time), so I'm probably more the norm than the exception.
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Agreed 100%. 5400RPM drives still being sold in premium devices in 2019 is ridiculous and inexcusable.
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I agree with this. I really wanted to like the HP version of the surface pro, but it cost so much more. I got a good deal on a SP2017 with the pen and type cover. It also had Microsoft Complete through most of 2021--I paid $710. Can you see every getting a deal like that on a mac? Never. Ever. Ever. I am typing on it now. It works great.
I remember the old Gateway convertibles. I had one when I was an instructor in the mid-2000s. It was so bad compared to how awesome the Surface Pro is. I think that is what it comes down to. If you are an artist then you LOVE the surface line compared to what came before (NTrig being the only real drawback, and that is minimized with the latest pen)...
It doesn't get a free pass, instead it is just so much better than an iPad or MacBook when you factor in being able to have real graphics programs combined with only having one device that can do it all.
Can you handle the compromises of that situation? If so, go for the surface. If you would rather have two devices? Go for the laptop and tablet. That has its own set of compromises.
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Also if the keyboard fails, you either get yours replaced or just buy a new type cover. Done!
I thought my type cover would fail by now because I just toss the thing in my motorcycle panniers and ride off road with it on our trips and use it by the campfire where it has had a bit of a everything from dirt, dust, beer and marshmallow from s’mores on it. I haven’t been very careful with it because I figured I would just replace it when the time came. But coming up on 2 years and the keyboard and device have been problem free so far.