Anyone Flipping the iPhone X?

[BeeGood]

Lol says the chap who hopes others get burned. Quiet remarkable. I hope you wearing a scarf, I hear it can get quite breezy that high up on your pedestal.
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You aren’t making anyone worse off. They have a choice; be inline and pre order, wait for general availability, or if they must have it sooner pay someone else for their time to do the work instead.

Heck I already know that the stars align for me that morning. I’m flying back home from business the evening before. I’ve got a day off yet will still get up early before walking my dog and then have a nice lunch with my wife. So o have the time to do this.

If it was the week before or after I wouldn’t have had the time. I would make lots more money that one day than what the phone costs. So not worth it to cancel my businsss meetings and queue up instead of travel. And if I wanted one at launch then I may decide to pay someone else for their time and effort and still be quids in.

Nobody made me worse off then, in fact in my scenario I’m actually better off even though I’m paying more.

I honestly see no problem with that. We do this all the time. I pay my gardener to mow my lawn, costs me less the if I did it myself and thus not earning my own money. I also pay a decorator to pain my home instead of taking time off to do it myself.

I seriously fail to see what the problem is in paying other people for a service.

The problem with what you’re saying is that you’re framing this as scalpers providing a service, but they’re not. All they’re doing is selling iPhones. Apple already does that...for cheaper. Scalpers aren’t adding any value to the process. They’re simply extracting it.

If there are no scalpers, everyone gets their phones a little sooner and at the actual retail price. In your scenario, you have a better shot at getting a phone on launch day or shortly afterwards without the scalpers doing what they do.

 

[tgi]

Apple is going to get wise one day to scalping and start variable pricing like sports teams do with big games to get that excess $ it use to leave on the table. Totally killed amateur ticket scalping for many hot games because there isn’t enough “juice” left to make it worthwhile. It would work like this:

To get a guaranteed phone on launch day: MSRP +35% premium.
Launch week: +10% premium
Launch month: +3% premium
Months 2-5: no premium
Months 6-8: 2% discount
Months 9-12: 10% discount

Doubt Apple or any consumer electronics manufacturer would ever implement a strategy like this.

 

[missbing]

Apple is going to get wise one day to scalping and start variable pricing like sports teams do with big games to get that excess $ it use to leave on the table. Totally killed amateur ticket scalping for many hot games because there isn’t enough “juice” left to make it worthwhile. It would work like this:

To get a guaranteed phone on launch day: MSRP +35% premium.
Launch week: +10% premium
Launch month: +3% premium
Months 2-5: no premium
Months 6-8: 2% discount
Months 9-12: 10% discount

Why would they screw the average joe to stop a few scalpers? This would hurt Apple more than anyone, because plenty of people would just decide to spend their money elsewhere. I'm debating on getting an X, but if I have to wait more than a month after launch to get one, then I'll just wait until the next X comes out next September. Also, why would Apple even care enough to do something like that? They're not losing money.

 

[ronincse]

I never do this as I am usually way too excited for my new phone...I'm thinking the markup might end up being high enough to tempt me if I manage to get one ordered on time though

 

[MrXiro]

I’m not telling you what you should or shouldn’t do, I’m saying your logic is flawed.

Scalping isn’t wrong because “someone will get P’O’d at you”. It’s wrong because the only reason you’re making a profit is because you’re making someone else worse off. You’re not adding any value. You’re creating more demand/less supply in order to make money, and it’s causing someone else to either have to wait for a longer ship date or leave the store without what they wanted. This is true if you flip 1 phone or 5.

You can say you don’t care about any of that, but it doesn’t make any sense to say it’s OK as long as you don’t make too many people worse off.

No I'm saying if other people wanted it that bad they'd stay up and order it or stand in line to buy it. If "someone else" wanted it bad enough they can patiently wait, Apple won't stop selling the X even when Sept 2018 rolls around or they can wake up at the same time as me in the middle of the night and get the phone themselves and still probably not get it until next year.

If I said... I'm buying 2 phones one for me and one for my wife you would have no problem with it. But either way I'm taking one off of the market for anyone else. But because I choose to sell my wife's upgrade it's "wrong"?

Maybe I'll buy an extra one and let my dog just poop on it then... or just so YOU can't have it and I'll just let it sit in a fishtank case on my bookshelf. Would that make you feel better?

 

[cyb3rdud3]

The problem with what you’re saying is that you’re framing this as scalpers providing a service, but they’re not. All they’re doing is selling iPhones. Apple already does that...for cheaper. Scalpers aren’t adding any value to the process. They’re simply extracting it.

If there are no scalpers, everyone gets their phones a little sooner and at the actual retail price. In your scenario, you have a better shot at getting a phone on launch day or shortly afterwards without the scalpers doing what they do.

So what do distributors and shops do? They just sell stuff. What value are they adding?

If clearly highlighted when there is actual value add. Why can’t anyone be paid for their time?

 

[protoxx]

In the past, especially when launches were USA only, professional scalpers would hire people to stand in line and buy as many phones as possible.
http://www.businessinsider.com/how-apple-took-on-chinas-iphone-scalpers-and-won-2012-3

 

[BeeGood]

No I'm saying if other people wanted it that bad they'd stay up and order it or stand in line to buy it. If "someone else" wanted it bad enough they can patiently wait, Apple won't stop selling the X even when Sept 2018 rolls around or they can wake up at the same time as me in the middle of the night and get the phone themselves and still probably not get it until next year.

But people are going to do that. I’m not talking about someone who decides to preorder order a day later or rolls into an Apple store at noon.

Somebody (or lots of somebodies) will get up early to try to preorder or queue up at an Apple store and won’t be able to get what they want because a scalper inserted themselves into the process to make a buck.

If I said... I'm buying 2 phones one for me and one for my wife you would have no problem with it. But either way I'm taking one off of the market for anyone else. But because I choose to sell my wife's upgrade it's "wrong"?

Correct.

Intent matters. It’s not just the fact that you’re taking it off the market. If you’re buying the phones for you and your wife to use, then fine. When you’re purpose becomes “extract money from others” then yes, I believe it’s a crappy thing to do.

What if I had 8 free lines on my account? Would it be wrong to use them all and sell 7 of the iPhones on eBay? Don’t you see that’s a little different than buy 8 phones for my family to use?

Maybe I'll buy an extra one and let my dog just poop on it then... or just so YOU can't have it and I'll just let it sit in a fishtank case on my bookshelf. Would that make you feel better?

If that’s how you choose to enjoy your phone, sure. Again, intent matters.
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So what do distributors and shops do? They just sell stuff. What value are they adding?

If clearly highlighted when there is actual value add. Why can’t anyone be paid for their time?

Distributors and shops typically buy wholesale and sell retail. They add value by adding a customer service layer (sales reps, support, etc) where there would have been none otherwise.

A scalper buys retail and sells at an inflated price, again no value added. All they do is make the “shortage” worse.

 

[JamieLannister]

people will pay 2k for a back ordered phone ?

There are millions of buyers - they are the dumb ones that buy anything apple year after year. They all deserved to be ripped off, period.

I will do my best to buy >2 of them on separate credit cards. Then sell them for more than 2x the markup. There are tons of iDiots. Makes me laugh with pleasure because silly sheeps love to get herded. This is how I will look when I collect minimum 2x margins on these silly iPhone x's. Best part is if I don't end up selling any of them, I'll just return them at the apple store. Win-win.

 

[MrXiro]

But people are going to do that. I’m not talking about someone who decides to preorder order a day later or rolls into an Apple store at noon.

Somebody (or lots of somebodies) will get up early to try to preorder or queue up at an Apple store and won’t be able to get what they want because a scalper inserted themselves into the process to make a buck.



Correct.

Intent matters. It’s not just the fact that you’re taking it off the market. If you’re buying the phones for you and your wife to use, then fine. When you’re purpose becomes “extract money from others” then yes, I believe it’s a crappy thing to do.

What if I had 8 free lines on my account? Would it be wrong to use them all and sell 7 of the iPhones on eBay? Don’t you see that’s a little different than buy 8 phones for my family to use?



If that’s how you choose to enjoy your phone, sure. Again, intent matters.
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Distributors and shops typically buy wholesale and sell retail. They add value buy adding a customer service layer (sales reps, support, etc) where there would have been none otherwise.

A scalper buys retail and sells at an inflated price, again no value added. All they do is make the “shortage” worse.

First world problems dude... your priorities and moral compass are out of whack. The shortage is a temporary thing and thus arbitrary because eventually everyone who wants one CAN get one.
I wouldn't care if you bought 7 if you have the 7 lines to buy them. You still have to buy them one at a time and I'm not going to whine and cry about it like some privileged infant if I can't get one on day one. It's not that big of a deal.

But if it makes you feel better:
For all intents and purposes; I'm buying one for my dog to use for all you need to know.

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There are millions of buyers - they are the dumb ones that buy anything apple year after year. They all deserved to be ripped off, period.

I will do my best to buy >2 of them on separate credit cards. Then sell them for more than 2x the markup. There are tons of iDiots. Makes me laugh with pleasure because silly sheeps loved to get herded. This is how I will look when I collect minimum 2x margins on these silly iPhone x's. Best part is if I don't end up selling any of them, I'll just return them at the apple store. Win-win.

You sure you're not Cersei? Jaime seemed nicer than you are.

 

[janeauburn]

I might flip it the bird. So count me in.

 

[moriyokiri]

For the record. This is not unscrupulous. This is taking a chance with ones own dollars to earn a profit. Someone that wants the phone still gets it.

Suppose I do the same thing with water bottles after a hurricane:
1) I am risking my own dollars to earn a profit
2) Someone that wants the water still gets it

This is not a good argument you have here.

 

[BeeGood]

First world problems dude... your priorities and moral compass are out of whack.
Fine... for all intents and purposes I'm buying one for my dog to use for all you need to know.

My moral compass is out of whack....that’s hilarious.

If that’s how you feel, fine. But let’s not pretend that you’re a “better person” because you’re not like the “******” selling five phones.

 

[MrXiro]

Suppose I do the same thing with water bottles after a hurricane:
1) I am risking my own dollars to earn a profit
2) Someone that wants the water still gets it

This is not a good argument you have here.

You're comparing a luxury item to a necessity. If you don't know the difference you might need to get better educated about priorities in life.
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My moral compass is out of whack....that’s hilarious.

If that’s how you feel, fine. But let’s not pretend that you’re a “better person” because you’re not like the “******” selling five phones.

I'm not a "better person" than you. I'm just not someone who has their priorities so far out of whack to think that a friggin' phone is so damn important that it's going to ruin my life because I'm getting it a week later than everyone else. Which is the attitude you're clearly showing when you say that it's "screwing" someone else.

You can't just go on Apple and order 5 phones. You need to go one at a time on different accounts. Or if you have the upgrades use the upgrades. It's all fair game. I'm not the one whining and crying cause; god forbid not everyone can get the "precious phone" on day one like some entitled child.

If I get my 2 phones day one... Great, if I can only score one 3 months later... great. It's only a phone. Not water or anything essential to life.

 

[moriyokiri]

You're comparing a luxury item to a necessity. If you don't know the difference you might need to get better educated about priorities in life.

I suggest you work on your reading comprehension skills. There's no such stipulation in his argument, which I 100% reproduced.

 

[JamieLannister]

I love how apple cult followers defend apple. Even scalping iPhones now is defended by the sheeps. I cannot believe it how much power apple cult has on brainwashed iDiots. Lol. Who the hell cares if I scalp this iPhone junk or another does the same thing with their own money? This isn't illegal. It's not even immoral. It has nothing to do with feelings either. These are the same whinging turds who complain about youtubers who do drop tests on brand new iDevices.

smh.

BTW, I do own AAPL shares. Nothing I say or do will impact the share price. Because there are guaranteed millions and millions of iFans who contribute to part of my retirement funding. Lol, keep on whinging folks!

 

[Born Again]

Hope all the scalpers get burned. Pure scum.

Seriously ? Like that's not nice

 

[MrXiro]

I love how apple cult followers defend apple. Even scalping iPhones now is defended by the sheeps. I cannot believe it how much power apple cult has on brainwashed iDiots. Lol. Who the hell cares if I scalp this iPhone junk or another does the same thing with their own money? This isn't illegal. It's not even immoral. It has nothing to do with feelings either. These are the same whinging turds who complain about youtubers who do drop tests on brand new iDevices.

smh.

You're 100% right. This message board used to be populated by intelligent conversation but these days it's been infiltrated by knee jerk cry babies who find a reason to cry and moan about anything and everything.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Suppose I do the same thing with water bottles after a hurricane:
1) I am risking my own dollars to earn a profit
2) Someone that wants the water still gets it

This is not a good argument you have here.

I would give them away in such a situation, but if you want to make money off peoples force majeur desperation and let’s young children and old people go thirsty then knock yourself out

Bit weird that you think that is comparable to a unnecessary item where alternatives are available.

 

[MrXiro]

I suggest you work on your reading comprehension skills. There's no such stipulation in his argument, which I 100% reproduced.

Because you're attempting to cash in on people in need. Your over priced resold water bottles is to be used to take advantage of people IN NEED.
Nobody NEEDS an iPhone...

This conversation makes me feel like I'm on crazy pills... I'm out before I lose my mind and stab the next person I see.

 

[BeeGood]

I'm not a "better person" than you. I'm just not someone who has their priorities so far out of whack to think that a friggin' phone is so damn important that it's going to ruin my life because I'm getting it a week later than everyone else. Which is the attitude you're clearly showing when you say that it's "screwing" someone else.

Whole lot of hyperbole there...and misreading, perhaps I can get you back on topic....

You stated in post #52 that someone who flips 5 iPhones is an “******”.

So two questions:

Why?

And what makes what that guy is doing different from what you’re doing?

 

[moriyokiri]

I would give them away in such a situation, but if you want to make money off peoples force majeur desperation and let’s young children and old people go thirsty then knock yourself out

Bit weird that you think that is comparable to a unnecessary item where alternatives are available.

I'm more confused why basic logic is confusing people.

He said it's not unscrupulous because 1) I'm risking my money and 2) someone who wants it gets it.
It's very easy to show that both 1 and 2 can be both true while still being unscrupulous so the argument doesn't work.

That's all that's being said here.

 

[JamieLannister]

You're 100% right. This message board used to be populated by intelligent conversation but these days it's been infiltrated by knee jerk cry babies who find a reason to cry and moan about anything and everything.

let me tell you something - I loved iPhones since the very first iPhone 3G. I went to 3GS, 4, 4S, 5, and stopped after that. Why? Because Mr. Job's departure from life and the fact they fired Scott Forstall. They then made the atrocity called iOS 7.0 and from then on marketing department dictated the UI/UX. Garbage from then on. iOS became really pathetic - and their displays weren't something to rave about either. The grass was definitely greener starting from 2013 on the android side.

I can tell you that apple is not the same company it use to be. Today it is all about profit margins down to the very dime. 5W charger on an iPhone 8 that has fast charging. No headphone jack just because of marketing courage. Thelist goes on. Dongles and more dongles. Company is a disgrace to its real loyal followers. Nowadays it's all about how much they can make.

I'm not the stupid one because I put money on AAPL stock because I know for a fact there will be hundreds of millions who will buy a turd stamped with an apple logo. I will not myself. But I will reap all the benefits of AAPL stock and retire soon wealthy with financial freedoms. Freedom to scalp the iPhone X!

 

[adampk17]

This isn't illegal. It's not even immoral.

Illegal? Definitely not. Immoral? I think you're kidding yourself if you're not willing to admit this is at least a moral grey area.

 

[AFEPPL]

Because you're attempting to cash in on people in need. Your over priced resold water bottles is to be used to take advantage of people IN NEED.
Nobody NEEDS an iPhone...

This conversation makes me feel like I'm on crazy pills... I'm out before I lose my mind and stab the next person I see.

No one "needs" a phone, but yes i guess people are taking advantage.
Just like apple are doing by pricing this at 1k? Apple don't "need" to price the device that high.. I'm just saying, but that's how supply and demand works, rightly or wrongly.