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I have a small child. Imagine my excitement to catch that “instant pose” or “cuteness” with a raise-to-wake, swipe left on lock screen, landscape for video clip, click the shutter button, ...and the damn thing goes back to sleep.

Now I have an iPhone-shaped hole in my wall.

I told the Apple Store associate that’s why I swapped my iPhone 6 for the SE and paid cash in full. I abhor that shell design. The designer should be raked over the coals for it, and whomever approved it past DVT should be fired. The camera bump just reeks of laziness for the design team. Yet it still remains in use today... I’ll never understand why.

I cannot and will not trade my SE for any new iPhone without a significant shell redesign. I know I’m one of 4 or 5 people on the planet who cares, but I’ll continue holding Apple accountable.

I also go case-less because the design is a thing of beauty and should be displayed proudly. With the SE design and square body, I can hold it with an easier grip than I ever could my iPhone 6. Plus, it lays flat and can hold stable on its edge for a remote photo shutter with my Apple Watch. You can’t do a remote photo with the Apple Watch and the iPhone 6-11pro design. That feature of the watch is useless otherwise. (I’ve done several remote photos and videos with my watch and SE, because I can).

I guess I’m “old” now. :) I’ll be one of those renegade tech nerds from some bad tech movie that lurks in seedy bars and whines about “the grid”.. haha
The original SE does have a damn classy look and body. I never use a case and I have dropped it numerous times with no negative repercussions. A very sturdy body, none of this glass back nonsense. I would trade the possibility of wireless charging for a non-glass strong body every day.
 
Being expensive doesn't make them not based on old technology.

But I dont get the issue? If you want to use your $2000 3.5mm headphones, Apple have a $9 adapter to plug them into the lightning port of this $400 phone.

I'd assume someone with $2K cans would be using a source other than the dac/amp in a phone anyway (and depending on specs, something like a 250ohm headphone you'd barely be able to hear ...), and for knocking around, they'd score a wireless setup.

(I've got some inexpensive BT earbuds from Anker I use with my iPad away from my desk, but otherwise, I've got a USB-C hub >> DAC >> amp >> decent headphones)
 
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I have a small child. Imagine my excitement to catch that “instant pose” or “cuteness” with a raise-to-wake, swipe left on lock screen, landscape for video clip, click the shutter button, ...and the damn thing goes back to sleep.

Now I have an iPhone-shaped hole in my wall.
You wouldn't have put a video on your wall! :p

Kidding, lol. I was trying to follow along with your scenario and I totally get it: you think you have the volume buttons up and you don't. I agree that's going to be a pain. I am "fortunate" not to have a small child. When my daughter was small the efficiency of my phone camera wasn't at issue, lol. But now, as I work from home, right outside my sliding glass doors to my left is a bank of birdfeeders I maintain, and I get it: sometimes I need to be quick to get that great shot. But my SE just won't get it done, not from this distance and through the glass, so for me it's anecdotally moot anyway (I have my DSLR right here, lens cap off, for those bird pics). But I get it.

(also anecdotally, that's something I'm excited about: I expect the 2020 SE's camera to be MUCH better than the 2016 SE's camera, even without Night Mode).
I told the Apple Store associate that’s why I swapped my iPhone 6 for the SE and paid cash in full. I abhor that shell design. The designer should be raked over the coals for it, and whomever approved it past DVT should be fired. The camera bump just reeks of laziness for the design team. Yet it still remains in use today... I’ll never understand why.

I cannot and will not trade my SE for any new iPhone without a significant shell redesign. I know I’m one of 4 or 5 people on the planet who cares, but I’ll continue holding Apple accountable.
I'm not for raking anyone over coals. Design is a series of trade-offs, and I think the placement of the sleep button was probably a matter of some iteration and that's where it turned out to be best under the circumstances. I don't know why, I'm just confident that laziness isn't the reason.

As far as the camera bump, I was also dismayed at its appearance in the iPhone 6, and its continued presence. But I get why it has to be there: if they are going to have thinness as a design goal, then the camera bump must be there to provide some focal depth. The optics just won't allow the camera to be thinner than such-and-such a distance.
I also go case-less because the design is a thing of beauty and should be displayed proudly. With the SE design and square body, I can hold it with an easier grip than I ever could my iPhone 6. Plus, it lays flat and can hold stable on its edge for a remote photo shutter with my Apple Watch. You can’t do a remote photo with the Apple Watch and the iPhone 6-11pro design. That feature of the watch is useless otherwise. (I’ve done several remote photos and videos with my watch and SE, because I can).

I guess I’m “old” now. :) I’ll be one of those renegade tech nerds from some bad tech movie that lurks in seedy bars and whines about “the grid”.. haha
So I used to go caseless as well. Up to and including my 5c (my beloved 5c...). I felt the 4 was the best-looking-and-feeling design they ever made, and though the 5 was based on it, I thought the thinness combined with the hard corners made it less comfortable in the hand than the 4 (and MUCH less comfortable than the 5c). But you can't argue with its ability to sit on its side with stability, that's actual function (which the 4 had as well, of course) and not just visual. But I found it uncomfortable anyway, so I started using a case (a clear one, because you're right, the phone looks great).

I like the 6-style bodies even less, as you do. I was never put off by their look, per se, but I definitely was not excited by it. And (caseless) it always felt like it was going to slip right our of my hands, especially when they were dry (they get very dry here in the Minnesota winters). Again, 5c all the way! Grippy plastic, never felt like I was going to drop it.

But here's the thing: given that I'm going to use a case ANYWAY, then I don't need to worry about those portions of the ergonomics any more. The phone doesn't need to look great, the case does. The phone doesn't need to be grippy, the case does. The case could even sit on its side if it's got good flat solid sides. And this is where the camera bump ceases to be an issue. In a case, it disappears. And what's more, if they had thickened the phone to flatten out the bump, then the case would make it thicker still! Now at least the thickness difference (camera thickness minus phone thickness) absorbs some of the case's added bulk.

That all doesn't fix the sleep button placement, or the different mechanics of holding and interacting with a phone this large. And I do have other issues with case physics, but that's for another really nitpicky post that no one will want to read. But it does eliminate some of it.

Got my case picked out and ordered and everything btw, lol, ymmv, wtf.

I'm not a renegade like you are, I'm the fearful adult hiding in the basement with a tinfoil hat on. ;)
 
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.. heh. To someone who isn't an audiophile, that brings very different images to the mind than you might have in mind!

We have a friend who spent that much on some rather high fidelity cans ... then she spent a bunch of money for some that are, umm, more portable ...
 
They should have reused the iPhone Xr parts and went with a lower price of $299.

That wouldn’t hurt their margins that much and would make a 6 years old design more enticing for budget buyers.

People are more inclined to update with newer design and A13 is not really a big improvement over A11 anyway. Therefore, the so-called iPhone 8S is a disappointment in lots of way that the design already looks dull.
 
I have a small child. Imagine my excitement to catch that “instant pose” or “cuteness” with a raise-to-wake, swipe left on lock screen, landscape for video clip, click the shutter button, ...and the damn thing goes back to sleep.

Now I have an iPhone-shaped hole in my wall...
The exact reason I have a DSLR. I can keep the camera on and in auto-mode, time to raise, shoot and focus is under a second (maybe even under 3/4 don't remember)
 
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The exact reason I have a DSLR. I can keep the camera on and in auto-mode, time to raise, shoot and focus is under a second (maybe even under 3/4 don't remember)
You know what I still like? I think an actual camera body is more pleasant and stable to hold. It's ergonomically designed for its purpose. In the back of my mind I feel that the phone in the hand just doesn't *feel* like a camera. Though an order of magnitude more convenient much most of the time.
 
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As a result, it is not going to be that great. The 4.7” iPhone 8S ➡❌

It's kind of amazing how close it is to an iPhone 7. You can pick one of these up super cheap and it will be supported software-wise for another year and a half. By then, the current iPhone SE, used, will cost peanuts.
 
If you want the flagship camera, it’s not going to be at the $400 entry level tier. Not even the $700 mid-tier. That’s a flagship feature.
Yeah, well the $399 SE 2016 had flagship camera.
The $399 Pixel 3a has flagship camera and arguably the best one on the market period.
So will the $399 Pixel 4a.

So your argument, while it makes sense, is a little bit incorrect.
It wasn’t crazy to expect Apple to include iPhone 11’s main camera in this phone, but they decided that design and number of cameras wasn’t differentiations enough.
 
While all logic pointed to this, I guess my dreams of the original SE being updated are even more dead :'(

I don’t like to assume things, but I think it’s safe to assume all of the tooling and production line set up to produce the old 5/SE body are long gone as Apple switched over to newer designs. They are putting this into an 8 body because they still had production set-up and components sourced for that style of phone. It makes the most sense as a way to develop an affordable phone without a lot of overhead. I know it’s probably not what people that like the original 5/SE want to hear, but that ship has sailed.
 
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Every teenage in the America will have one of these because of iMessage, the camera, and the price! Which parents are going to love! Apple just outted OnePlus!!!
 
I don’t like to assume things, but I think it’s safe to assume all of the tooling and production line set up to produce the old 5/SE body are long gone as Apple switched over to newer designs. They are putting this into an 8 body because they still had production set-up and components sourced for that style of phone. It makes the most sense as a way to develop an affordable phone without a lot of overhead. I know it’s probably not what people that like the original 5/SE want to hear, but that ship has sailed.

Oh yeah I well and truly assumed this, though doesn’t make me any less sad.

Thus why my hope remains with the rumoured 5.4 iphone 12.
 
I pulled out an old 5S I still have (that I had passed down to my youngest son years ago, and he gave it back with a broken screen and dead battery) to see just how it is compared to my current iPhone 11 Pro Max. It’s crazy not only how small it is, but how light it is. I could see going back to something like it, if they put in a bezel-less screen like the 11 pro’s - maybe. I think the issue is that we all do so much more on our iPhones (or any smart phone for that matter) that having such a limited space for typing, reading, etc., might be too limiting at this point.

If I had to guess, what Apple is pushing towards, is not a newer even smaller iPhone option, but rather to get the Watch to the point where it can take over for those that want as small a device as they can get for basic use (calls, text, simple email, maps, etc.). As it stands, I can already leave my iPhone home or at my desk (which is kind of the same thing right now) as long as I’m wearing my Watch. The problem the Watch has is that it can’t survive constant use for calls and texting. But that will only improve with each iteration.
 
If I wanted a new iPhone with this design/form factor I would have bought it back in 2014 when the iPhone 6 came out. I didn't because it was too big then and it's still too big now.

Android is all I see in my future now. I don't care about price, I would pay $2000 for a small iPhone. Razor or Galaxy Flip in my near future. I was hoping for an SE with the same form factor as the iPod touch.

Although I'm sure this phone will sell moderately well, Apple missed the mark here. iPhone nano anyone? And don't tell me that's what the watch is for.... you can't reply to email, text or take pictures on a watch.

it’s going to be hard on android to buy a 4” screen nowadays, with a good processor believe me i been using android for soo many years
 
People will find it more appealing if the original SE form factor gets a major update and won't be surprised if the majority of people are not planning to purchase another iteration of iPhone 8.

Those are only the people who prefer a super tiny phone. Apple has had tons more success with the SE2 form factor.

Anyways, the SE always was a cheap reuse of an old chassis with some decent interior components hence this one will likely sell well - if anything sells on these harder times.
 
it’s going to be hard on android to buy a 4” screen nowadays, with a good processor believe me i been using android for soo many years

Exactly... the Android OEMs seem to only make phones that are big to super-big!

Are there Android users wishing for phones to return to the size of the Galaxy SII again the same way the SE people do?

If so... they've been out of luck for a looong time. It's nearly impossible to find a small "one-handed" Android phone anymore.
 
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