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Seniors voted for Trump at an alarming rate. Further, seniors voted Republicans into congress. They voted in people whose vision is to reform entitlements therefore let the reforms begin.

I for one am tired of paying for entitlements for which I get zero benefit (social security and medicare). People need to do their part and prepare for their own retirement and not burden younger generations. If they did not do an adequate job saving for retirement, whose fault is that?

I am also tired of carrying the load for public education. If you are too lazy to earn enough money to send your kid to a school that you pay for, whose fault is it?

HUD is of no benefit to me.

The EPA is, at best, of questionable benefit.

The people were pretty clear on Nov 8. Particularly where it mattered - Michigan, Ohio, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Florida. Let the politicians do the will of the people.

Social Security is not an entitlement. It's not government money. It's an insurance policy. You don't get SS if you don't pay for it. You are not paying for other people. You are paying for yourself. The problem is goverment doesn't like to raise taxes to pay for the wars they start and instead borrow it
I agree. Not only do we need to throw out every illegal alien, I think we need institute a religion test for every person applying for citizenship. Only Christians needs apply.

Also, we need to get started on the wall and fast. Estimates by independent contractors have come in at around $20 billion + another $5 or so billion for project management, administration and cost overruns. To maintain the wall for 10 years, the cost estimates are another $20 billion. So let's call it an even $40 billion for 10 years. Where to get the money? Easy, there is this pool of money that we all have been paying for but only a fraction of the population are benefitting from. They are called entitlements. We need to dismantle entitlements and put our money to good use.

Finally, if you work for HUD or the department of education or the EPA, the free ride is over. Time to get a real job.

Not sure if sarcasm or just plain ignorance in bolded quote.

What do you plan on replacing the EPA with? Unless you are going to tell me that you trust business to look out for the environment. Because history has shown they don't care. And tax payers have been footing the bill when they pollute our land.
 
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It's as if he's never read the constitution. I guess I'm off to the death camps because I stopped believing in Christianity when I was younger. See you all around in the... no, there's no after life.
 
No, but we've become so nationalist and hostile that apparently some people feel it's appropriate to disparage others at their jobs. Just like the Grubhub situation. If anyone in my company wants to dance with glee about how all those Mexicans in the US have to leave with no regard for coworkers who may be saying goodbye to their family members, I don't want to sign their checks anymore. They can get out. I'd rather not have such vile, toxic people poisoning my well.

True story - I have a relative who collects social security and medicare. She regularly employs illegals to work around her house because she is too cheap to pay the price for a proper, licensed contractor. She befriended one worker who wound up suffering a stroke. Fortunate for the worker, he had Obamacare.

The relative not only voted for Trump and all the Republicans she could find in any and all tickets, she has been running around as if she has won the lottery.

It makes me laugh because I feel like she got the wool pulled over her eyes. Just wait till reality sets in - god willing, we will be done with medicare and social security. All illegals, including her friend, deported. Obamacare, sitting in the trash where it belongs.

God bless America.
 
It's as if he's never read the constitution. I guess I'm off to the death camps because I stopped believing in Christianity when I was younger. See you all around in the... no, there's no after life.

There is one easy way to disprove the notion of God - not only does evil win, it always wins.
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Are you effin serious??? I mean you DO know many Jews, Buddhists and atheists (among others) supported Trump right?

You want to expulse current citizens who aren't Christian or is it time to fire up the ovens?

Grandfather clause. You're in before the laws are passed, then you get a pass.

But if you are trying to apply for citizenship after the new law is passed, then yes, only Christians need apply. You can stay in the country as a legal alien but this country doesn't need Sharia law. It was founded by Christians for Christians.

And by the way, my two posts merged here are not contradictory. The notion of there not being such a thing as God and the notion of being Christian are not mutually exclusive.
 
It's a lot deeper than that. At the time this nation was still experimenting with democracy. There was no clear cut rules on how the executive would function. The only example of executive rule at the time was the Monarchy/Church model. At first they thought Congress should pick the President. But they wanted the executive to be independent but also checked by Congress.

The popular vote was liked by the founding fathers because they had examples of it with govenatorial elections. But because of slavery and 3/5ths rule, the south would always be a minority in a national popular election.

At the time everyone agreed Washington would be the 1st President. But the worry was after he left, the next election would be fielded by "favorite sons" of each province/town/state with no clear winner. It would be a mess. Now remember the founders were still experimenting when they came up with the electoral college. Because even though it is technically unconstitutional (goes against One person. One vote) because all votes are not equal. It was the best compromise they could come up with for the very young nation.

Today the electoral college is really antiquated. It is mostly used as a tool by the two party system to keep other parties from becoming dominant.

And with the access to technology such as verification via biometrics, do we really need electorates to keep voting secure?
No problem... Article Five spells out exactly how it can be changed. Go for it!
 
Not sure if sarcasm or just plain ignorance in bolded quote.

What do you plan on replacing the EPA with? Unless you are going to tell me that you trust business to look out for the environment. Because history has shown they don't care. And tax payers have been footing the bill when they pollute our land.

For all the money we spend on the EPA, environmental policy and fighting climate change, exactly what has the benefit been? Honest question.

50 some odd million Americans voted to put climate change deniers in office. Americans across the country put Republicans in charge of congress. They majority of governors across the country are Republicans. Either you are not paying attention or you want to throw away good money after bad.
 
The center if the country knows about desalination. It also knows that it's an energy intensive and dirty process, and without a nuclear power source, would pollute surrounding areas like nothing else.

As a matter of fact, the center of the country also knows that the new desal plant under construction near San Diego cost about $1b to build, and will supply enough water for about 300,000 people. Given that the population of, say, Los Angeles metro is about 13 million, how many desalination plants and billion of dollars is that?

Do they still teach math on the west coast, or do you all just surf and listen to The Beach Boys on repeat all day? ;)

As for the KKK remark, I've never had any involvement with them, as would be the case for most of the population in this country. But if you think I have, or that there is a large KKK influence in most of the US states, well you made the claim so the onus on you is to provide some evidence here.

Also I haven't even said anything regarding anyone's protected class/characteristics, I'm just trying to imagine what a separated California might look/be like. It's a fun thought experiment given how much Californians seem to think their **** don't stink. :rolleyes:
Well the facts remain that you do support bigotry and racism and the treatment of women as second class citizens. People on both coasts are against that.
 
For all the money we spend on the EPA, environmental policy and fighting climate change, exactly what has the benefit been? Honest question.

50 some odd million Americans voted to put climate change deniers in office. Americans across the country put Republicans in charge of congress. They majority of governors across the country are Republicans. Either you are not paying attention or you want to throw away good money after bad.

We don't need the EPA to fight for climate change. What the EPA should be is directly funded by corps via inspection fees like we do our cars. And with Authority to fine the **** out of those who abuse our natural resources. Too May times we have seen corps get away with crap due to so few inspectors to do an effective job because of budget cuts.
 
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For all the money we spend on the EPA, environmental policy and fighting climate change, exactly what has the benefit been? Honest question.

50 some odd million Americans voted to put climate change deniers in office. Americans across the country put Republicans in charge of congress. They majority of governors across the country are Republicans. Either you are not paying attention or you want to throw away good money after bad.
We don't need the EPA to fight for climate change. What the EPA should be is directly funded by corps via inspection fees like we do our cars. And with Authority to fine the **** out of those who abuse our natural resources. Too May times we have seen corps get away with crap due to so few inspectors to do an effective job because of budget cuts.

What the EPA is and what is should be is irrelevant.

Republicans are in control now which means industry over environment. People need to accept that the electorate doesn't care about environmental concerns.
 
Seniors voted for Trump at an alarming rate. Further, seniors voted Republicans into congress. They voted in people whose vision is to reform entitlements therefore let the reforms begin.

As a senior, I favor changes to strengthen viability of Medicare and Social Security, but not their dismantling. We have not been using an economic system that shows itself willing to forego profit for investment in human capital onshore. So, the myth of providing for one's own retirement in other than penury is exactly that, a myth. Let the reforms begin indeed. Start with knocking the cap off the w/h taxes for these social safety net programs. Raise the retirement age since we are healthier now and can work longer. Consider a means test for millionaire households with incentives to forego the benefit. The programs' purpose is not only to shelter elders from abject poverty and disease as they age out of the population, but to protect the general public's health and safety as well. Failing reforms, then switch to an economic system that does not pretend to provide any benefits below from tax-cuts above. Put the taxes to direct public benefit and stop saying they will create onshore jobs.

I for one am tired of paying for entitlements for which I get zero benefit (social security and medicare). People need to do their part and prepare for their own retirement and not burden younger generations. If they did not do an adequate job saving for retirement, whose fault is that?

LOL possibly Apple's fault for offshoring those enticing iPods and iPhones all these years? Make some jobs with some of those excess profits and then we can talk whose fault it is when a tool and die maker doesn't set aside money for retirement. Meanwhile go live on $15 an hour in a metro area and see how much money you can set aside for anything past the rent and the carfare to work. Don't worry about exceeding the max protected by the FDIC when you bank it...

I am so sorry you don't like paying FICA taxes. I didn't like them and I didn't like paying the Vietnam War income tax surcharge either, although at least back then we saw on our paystubs where the war monies were coming from, unlike GWBush with his "go shopping to support the troops" initiatives. I didn't hear him say "and oh by the way save up for your retirement because Trump's going to kill Social Security."

Further, I was never really thrilled holding up my end of taxes for whatever corporate subsidies we were dishing out during all the years I was in the workforce. Talk about entitlements. I hope the war machine made a good return on my dough.

But the FICA withholdings are not for entitlements, they are social safety net programs passed by Congress decades ago and that have provided clear benefits to retirees and the general public ever since then. Yes people need to help prepare for their retirement. We do not show them how to do that from the time they are teenagers. Let that begin.

I laugh when you say "not burden younger generations" while I write checks to help educate my own nextgen. If and when they graduate and get a job, they will save for their own retirement, as they are certainly aware that my having put funds into a 401k while I was in the workforce is the only thing keeping them out of student debt currently. Get out of your own bubble once in awhile. You live in a country of 320 million diverse people and situations. My own "bubble" certainly makes a mockery of your narrow views.

I am also tired of carrying the load for public education. If you are too lazy to earn enough money to send your kid to a school that you pay for, whose fault is it?

Those are some of the most selfish and shortsighted comments I have ever seen posted in this entire forum. I know plenty of libertarians, some in my own family, but even they are not so deluded as to think this country in its unfettered and savage capitalism allows the average family's hardworking heads of household to make enough money to afford tuition to a private school. Where does "lazy" fit into the picture of these Americans you do not even know? Can you support your assertion? And do you want to live in a nation of uneducated presidents, members of Congress, mayors? Children are us, later on. Children become our political leaders. To invest in their education is to underwrite the future of the nation. It cannot be less important than making sure we can defend ourselves with adequate military force. Defend what? Without education we are next to nothing.

HUD is of no benefit to me.
“The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread” (Anatole France). I’m sure you’ve heard the quote, and you may even also be aware that he was a Communist. However given your post and some other posts you've made here, i am not sure that you understand the implications of a large homeless population. But it's reassuring if you at least understand the laws against vagrancy and so forth apply to you as well as to the unfortunate amongst us. It's always good to know what you can't do even if you would never imagine having to try it out.

The EPA is, at best, of questionable benefit.

Without a vigorous EPA Los Angeles would have become an uninhabitable brown dustbowl by 1990. I could see what I'd be breathing there when my flight was circling before landing back in the 1960s! Take it from there. At least you said "questionable" benefit instead of dismissing clean air and water out of hand. And climate change is no hoax, even if the incoming administration plans to claim that as soon as its transition team gets its climate-change-denying speech written. I might not be too old to join a protest march after all, who knows. I'm still doing dance workouts so the barricades might even be calling me. Or I could just pick up the phone to my Congressman once that climate-change-denying sod gets sworn in.

The people were pretty clear on Nov 8. Particularly where it mattered - Michigan, Ohio, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Florida. Let the politicians do the will of the people.

No argument there. Have at it. Half the country said no to the incoming administration. Sounds like there will be enough checks and balance in the Congress on the left, particularly in the Senate, to keep the right from just committing suicide on behalf of the entire nation.
 
Well the facts remain that you do support bigotry and racism and the treatment of women as second class citizens. People on both coasts are against that.

Is that all the broad, baseless epithets you've got to label people you've never met with, or are there more? I only counted three. And there must be more than that... (Have you tried the thesaurus yet?)

As for people on the coasts, they should realize that they put their pants on one leg at a time just like everyone in middle America.
 
As a senior, I favor changes to strengthen viability of Medicare and Social Security, but not their dismantling. We have not been using an economic system that shows itself willing to forego profit for investment in human capital onshore. So, the myth of providing for one's own retirement in other than penury is exactly that, a myth. Let the reforms begin indeed. Start with knocking the cap off the w/h taxes for these social safety net programs. Raise the retirement age since we are healthier now and can work longer. Consider a means test for millionaire households with incentives to forego the benefit. The programs' purpose is not only to shelter elders from abject poverty and disease as they age out of the population, but to protect the general public's health and safety as well. Failing reforms, then switch to an economic system that does not pretend to provide any benefits below from tax-cuts above. Put the taxes to direct public benefit and stop saying they will create onshore jobs.

You want to tax me and other millionaires more for these programs and then you want me to consider foregoing its benefits?

I am confused, did Hillary win the election and did the democrats take congress back?


I laugh when you say "not burden younger generations" while I write checks to help educate my own nextgen. If and when they graduate and get a job, they will save for their own retirement, as they are certainly aware that my having put funds into a 401k while I was in the workforce is the only thing keeping them out of student debt currently. Get out of your own bubble once in awhile. You live in a country of 320 million diverse people and situations. My own "bubble" certainly makes a mockery of your narrow views.

Look sister, your beef ain't with me.

Your beef is with your fellow seniors. Particularly the ones in Florida. And the ones in North Carolina. And Michigan. And Ohio. And Wisconsin.


No argument there. Have at it. Half the country said no to the incoming administration. Sounds like there will be enough checks and balance in the Congress on the left, particularly in the Senate, to keep the right from just committing suicide on behalf of the entire nation.

Amen.

Isn't that what polite people are suppose to say when they hear another person praying?

Here is what you and some of the rest of the seniors need to remember. Elections have consequences. We did not elect senators to filibuster for the next four years. And even so, the republicans have the reconciliation process. That $4 billion wall that Trump was talking about (which is now projected to cost $45 billion to build and maintain over ten years) is nothing.

Say goodbye to your federally protected lands. Its time to drill baby, drill.

Seniors and democrats who stayed home don't realize that they just handed the keys to the kingdom.
 
Seniors and democrats who stayed home don't realize that they just handed the keys to the kingdom.

You think?

I saved up enough dough to get a bumperstick sez "Don't blame me I voted for HER" just in case I needed it. LOL I couldn't fit "on the Working Families Party line" on the thing but that's a kind of inside joke in America these days anyway.
 
Seniors voted for Trump at an alarming rate. Further, seniors voted Republicans into congress. They voted in people whose vision is to reform entitlements therefore let the reforms begin.

I for one am tired of paying for entitlements for which I get zero benefit (social security and medicare). People need to do their part and prepare for their own retirement and not burden younger generations. If they did not do an adequate job saving for retirement, whose fault is that?

I am also tired of carrying the load for public education. If you are too lazy to earn enough money to send your kid to a school that you pay for, whose fault is it?

HUD is of no benefit to me.

The EPA is, at best, of questionable benefit.

The people were pretty clear on Nov 8. Particularly where it mattered - Michigan, Ohio, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Florida. Let the politicians do the will of the people.

Social Security is not an entitlement. It's not government money. It's an insurance policy. You don't get SS if you don't pay for it. You are not paying for other people. You are paying for yourself.
What the EPA is and what is should be is irrelevant.

Republicans are in control now which means industry over environment. People need to accept that the electorate doesn't care about environmental concerns.

What the electorate want and the political parties want are oft 2 separate things. Just because the GOP is elected doesn't mean everyone agrees with everything the GOP wants. We didn't give them any mandate to enact their wet dream laws.
 
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As for people on the coasts, they should realize that they put their pants on one leg at a time just like everyone in middle America.

Let's not imagine that no Democrats live in the "red" states, no Republicans in the "blue" ones. We're all just human trying to get on with life a day at a time. Election's over, the transition teams are forming up to figure out how to hand over power smoothly after the inaguration, everyone else must have something better to do than try to provoke winners to gloat or losers to bash furniture.

This thread was originally about a letter reminding some employees that after a divisive election, some high feelings may yet linger, but that even so we need to move forward together. That seems like a pretty good idea all around, and I don't see why supporters of any candidates or platforms would disagree... except that this is PRSI? Man if I ran this bar I'd say take it outside right about now.

Where's my hoodie? "I'm with Tim on this one."
 
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Social Security is not an entitlement. It's not government money. It's an insurance policy. You don't get SS if you don't pay for it. You are not paying for other people. You are paying for yourself.


What the electorate want and the political parties want are oft 2 separate things. Just because the GOP is elected doesn't mean everyone agrees with everything the GOP wants. We didn't give them any mandate to enact their wet dream laws.

Its a ponzi scheme. Insurance policies don't pay every one in full.


The center if the country knows about desalination. It also knows that it's an energy intensive and dirty process, and without a nuclear power source, would pollute surrounding areas like nothing else.

As a matter of fact, the center of the country also knows that the new desal plant under construction near San Diego cost about $1b to build, and will supply enough water for about 300,000 people. Given that the population of, say, Los Angeles metro is about 13 million, how many desalination plants and billion of dollars is that?

Do they still teach math on the west coast, or do you all just surf and listen to The Beach Boys on repeat all day? ;)

As for the KKK remark, I've never had any involvement with them, as would be the case for most of the population in this country. But if you think I have, or that there is a large KKK influence in most of the US states, well you made the claim so the onus on you is to provide some evidence here.

Also I haven't even said anything regarding anyone's protected class/characteristics, I'm just trying to imagine what a separated California might look/be like. It's a fun thought experiment given how much Californians seem to think their **** don't stink. :rolleyes:

The notion of California standing alone outside of the United States is just plain ridiculous. Now the thought of California, Oregon and Washington as a separate country, that would be intriguing.

At any rate, what would Florida, Michigan, Kentucky, West Virginia, Mississippi and a whole host of other states do without California's federal tax dollars. If nothing else, the Republic needs Californians' dollars.

Personally, I like the the United States with 50 states. I would like to see the tax code reformed so I am not burdened by lazy people from the midwest and the south.
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Let's not imagine that no Democrats live in the "red" states, no Republicans in the "blue" ones. We're all just human trying to get on with life a day at a time. Election's over, the transition teams are forming up to figure out how to hand over power smoothly after the inaguruation, everyone else must have something better to do than try to provoke winners to gloat or losers to bash furniture.

The irony here is just how many Republicans there are in California. And how much water is consumed by agriculture. And how many white supremacists live here.
 
Look sister, your beef ain't with me.

Your beef is with your fellow seniors. Particularly the ones in Florida. And the ones in North Carolina. And Michigan. And Ohio. And Wisconsin.

No sir. You are who was going on about individual responsibility and then --when confronted by my post about how I have taken individual responsibility-- suddenly turned around and suggested that I blame some entire groups of people for a problem I don't even claim to have. I don't have a beef with anyone at the moment. And like I said, if I ran this bar I'd tell everyone take it outside now.

Maybe you're a bot and all your posts were supposed to have sarcasm emoticons tacked on to them here and there. Are you the one who failed to vote for Clinton and now fears Mr. Trump? Just wondering, since otherwise your lists of "hopes" for the incoming adminstration's achievements actually read more like some really annoyed Sanders supporters' posts intending sarcastic congratulations to Trump voters for thinking they just won the powerball lottery.
 
Hillary Clinton lost the election when she called Donald Trump supporters a "basket of deplorables". Earlier in the summer she gave a decent speech about the alt-right that tried to appeal to Republicans not comfortable with Trump. Then she threw it all away with that one statement.
 
For everyone who has mentioned that Apple's workplace practices are unfair or abusive, are you willing to pay $2000 for that next iPhone (don't think it would be that much but whatever)?

Yes. If it meant providing jobs here in the US. We spend a lot on our computers (which are not made here either) and keep them for years. I think the annual iPhone upgrade cycle is the perfect example of gross consumerism. I'm working on a top of the line MacBook Pro from 2013. I see no reason to upgrade and probably won't for several more years. I'd much rather pay more for a top of the line device that lasts 5+ years, especially if it were made in the US, than feed the annual iPhone upgrade cycle.
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Hillary Clinton lost the election when she called Donald Trump supporters a "basket of deplorables". Earlier in the summer she gave a decent speech about the alt-right that tried to appeal to Republicans not comfortable with Trump. Then she threw it all away with that one statement.

I don't agree at all. She lost the election long before that. She lost when she and Debbie cheated Bernie out of the nomination and alienated a huge group of voters. If you look at voting numbers, Republican turn-out was flat, down a bit from the Obama/Romney election. So nothing Hillary said or did motivated a bunch of people to come out and vote Trump. Her numbers, on the other hand, were terrible compared to the previous two Obama elections. A slightly HIGHER percentage of black and latino voters chose Trump than chose Romney in the previous election, despite Trump's rhetoric. Percentage-wise, fewer of both groups chose Hillary than chose Obama. The reality is, she lost this election because too many people saw through her entitled facade and chose to stay home rather than support the continued use of the United States government as a personal cash register by Clinton, Inc.
 
No sir. You are who was going on about individual responsibility and then --when confronted by my post about how I have taken individual responsibility-- suddenly turned around and suggested that I blame some entire groups of people for a problem I don't even claim to have. I don't have a beef with anyone at the moment. And like I said, if I ran this bar I'd tell everyone take it outside now.

Maybe you're a bot and all your posts were supposed to have sarcasm emoticons tacked on to them here and there. Are you the one who failed to vote for Clinton and now fears Mr. Trump? Just wondering, since otherwise your lists of "hopes" for the incoming adminstration's achievements actually read more like some really annoyed Sanders supporters' posts intending sarcastic congratulations to Trump voters for thinking they just won the powerball lottery.

See, here is the difference. I voted against Trump. Because I am willing to put up with higher taxes and public education and social programs. Because I recognize that you cannot be patriot without being compassionate to your fellow Americans. And I recognize that social justice for gays, minorities and women only happen when a progressive vision is followed.

Whereas your fellow seniors in the midwest and the south and in Pennsylvania. What did they do?

My point is this - people have to look at the big picture. When they voted for Trump and voted in a Republican congress, for whatever their reasons were, they signed up for a package deal. And if you follow politics, you know what that package deal is.

  • Entitlement Reform
  • Less environmental regulation
  • Less consumer protection
  • Privatizing education

Not to mention the 3 decades worth of ultra conservative tyranny that we will suffer when the Republicans place their people on the bench.

And I did not vote for this stuff. Your fellow seniors did. So you know, your beef ain't with me, sister.
 
I agree. Not only do we need to throw out every illegal alien, I think we need institute a religion test for every person applying for citizenship. Only Christians needs apply. . . . .

This is crazy and totally uncalled for. American was first and foremost formed with the idea of religious tolerance. We don't need to make any rules that go to religion, race, sex, or sexual preference. With that said, we also don't need illegal aliens. What we need instead is a visa process that identifies aliens when they come into the country and deports them if they commit a crime or are not gainfully employed. Period!. This is exactly what Mexico does as well as most other countries in the world excluding the failed states of Europe. The solution is simple and reasonable if we could just get all of the doomsayers, fear mongers, and other liberal lap dogs to open their minds and understand reality.
 
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