Apple Explains Why It Terminated Epic's Latest Developer Account

[Realityck]

Apple today said it has terminated Epic Games Sweden's developer account worldwide due to the game developer's pattern of untrustworthy behavior.

I see Phil asking for why Epic should be trusted again after some negative comments, and breaking their past agreements. I don't specifically see where Apple is terminating their developer account. Go through the chain of messages, there is only one from Apple. Specifically this text.

But I have this question after seeing this topic, why did Epic purposely choose the same country to work this store from as Spotify?

 

[Blue Hawk]

Crapple is doing crapple things again. And people still believe that they are not a gatekeeper.

 

[flexwithmarius]

See, the problem with playing the martyr is you don’t live to see the results of your actions.

You also don’t become exempt from the consequences of those actions (that would kinda defeat the purpose).

Epic wants to have it their way and stick it to you too. That’s why they’ll always lose. It’s always about them.

 

[zelativity]

Why does everyone hate Epic so much? Does Tim Sweeney have an annoying voice or something? For the life of me I can't fathom why so many people celebrate when one company can stomp out another's ability to distribute apps on a major platform.

Because he's a major hypocrite. He fights for the 30% developer cut from Apple to be essentially bypassed, when he also takes a cut (albeit lesser) in the desktop space because obviously servers and other fees like maintenance aren't free. Why does he not try the same thing on game consoles, while happily putting Fortnite on it? They purchase studios that used to have games listed on Steam, and delist it as soon as they got it to be exclusive on his own launcher. They also pay devs to do a year exclusive for some games before it gets listed to Steam like how consoles do, while Steam doesn't do anything of the sort. The list goes on.

He's pretty much doing a temper tantrum because he was late to the store launcher whatever space and couldn't make a dent to the market, so now he's doing all this and wants everything to go his way.

 

[flexwithmarius]

Except it's us consumers who get fewer options down the road, which isn't good.

What’s funny is I’ve never heard anyone kicking and screaming for an alternative app store. Not a single soul.

What options are people looking for? Genuinely curious.

Or is this a solution in search of a problem?

 

[Ethosik]

thats what Sweeney is "claiming"

but given Sweeney has a habit of lying out of his tuchus, I dont take his word as gospel

Yep. And this is why Apple did what they did.

 

[Rogifan]

Maybe don't badmouth the place where you want to sell your items? If I was selling something at Target I certainly wouldn't go out of my way to bad mouth them and have a shocked pikachu face when they remove my products from their stores.

I thought they wanted to sell in their own App Store.

Phil Schiller needs to retire already.

 

[treacher]

Sounds like a great way for Epic to lose even more money

Calculated loss, they're already doing it. The Unreal Engine is an unmatched behemoth in game development, especially after the Unity fiasco. It will be very unfortunate for iOS to not have Unreal Engine over time.

 

[jakey rolling]

You can ignore a contract you willingly signed in the EU? Interesting place to do business.

If the terms of that contract are found to be illegal, then yes. This is not limited to the EU, either - laws supersede contracts in the US as well.

 

[Rogifan]

Epic already violated the terms of their agreement with Apple. Why should they trust that Epic won't try to bypass any future agreement? I think they have every right to not want to deal with them.

To paraphrase a saying: Break the contract once, shame on you. Break it again, shame on me.

Which terms of the new EU rules did Epic break?

 

[klasma]

which makes the whole thing non DMA compliant

Yes, I wouldn’t be surprised if this whole approach of offering an alternative app store requiring a business relationship with Apple is found to be non-compliant.

 

[Ethosik]

Does Apple have to allow anyone to have access to their development tools? Or does Apple get to have a say ?

Let’s allow malicious coders access! Give it to anyone!

 

[IllegitimateValor]

Would love to see Apple get out of the way on this so consumers can enjoy the power of choice. You invented the new millennium version of an omni-television device; it doesn’t mean you get to control the programming forever.

Maybe gaming could thrive better on Apple products if they’d invest in AAA or work with developers without demanding a cut of almost everything

 

[Kevin2055]

Just learned Tencent owns 40% of Epic Games.

 

[MNGR]

Lets just say he has a habit on not being truthful with his statements

So the EU is going to decide that the EU owns Apple hw & sw?

 

[egdiroh]

It should worry absolutely everyone, even the fanboys, that Apple thinks they have the right to decide whether or not people are allowed to install certain apps from certain developers on devices that they own.

It should worry absolutely everyone, even the fanboys, that thinks they have the right to decide whether or not that have to abide by the terms of the contract ts that they enter into.

Apple is not banning arbitrary people they are banning a serial contract violator whom they have had a court tell them they are under no obligation to be in a contract with.

There shouldn't be alarm that people are rooting for apple it should be amazement that epic managed to behave badly enough that people will root for the relative big guy

 

[Rogifan]

It doesn’t. The DMA may say gatekeepers must allow third party stores. But the DMA also clearly states that Gatekeepers cannot be prevented from enforcing certain standards to maintain a secure platform. This means, Apple is allowed to define the parameters within which a third-party store can operate - which they do with their Developer agreement.

What part of this spat with Epic is about security? It’s about money.

 

[j26]

Yes, the Goliath here is the monopoly that is using force to require people to act a certain way at the point of a gun. Eg. The EU authoritarians.

Yes, the concept of the "monopoly of legitimate force"
A government has a monopoly in governing.

 

[AdonisSMU]

It's sad to see so many people supporting the Goliath

I'm not sure if many folks realize that it ultimately comes around to "get you too" when we have the entrenched power "winning".

Root for the smaller guys -- the underdogs -- the upstarts

(relatively speaking in this case - relative power matters a lot here)

That USED TO BE APPLE!
That is what created the company we loved

Everyone else has to follow the rules. Why should they get preferential treatment?

 

[klasma]

Taking a step back from the particulars, Sweeney has objectively cost his company hundreds of millions of dollars in lost revenue and mounting legal costs. Their existing arrangement with Apple was netting them a fortune, but they got greedy and bet the farm. Apple should just buy Epic at this point, mainly for the Unreal Engine IP.

Tim Sweeney is the majority shareholder of Epic. He owns his company. Apple can’t buy Epic unless Tim Sweeney personally sells it to them.

 

[jakey rolling]

So the EU is going to decide that the EU owns Apple hw & sw?

No, but the EU may decide that iPhone owners own their Apple hw. Currently, Apple seems to think they own every iPhone in perpetuity.

 

[Realityck]

Yes, I wouldn’t be surprised if this whole approach of offering an alternative app store requiring a business relationship with Apple is found non-compliant.

Clearly if you participate in access to Apple's tools/services afforded to developers you would have a business relationship. Never mind which store you are using.

 

[AdonisSMU]

What part of this spat with Epic is about security? It’s about money.

Apple has been doing without Epics money for this long. I doubt it matters if they get Epics money. Rules are there for everyone one who wants to do business on Apples platforms.

 

[thejadedmonkey]

What’s funny is I’ve never heard anyone kicking and screaming for an alternative app store. Not a single soul.

What options are people looking for? Genuinely curious.

Or is this a solution in search of a problem?

I'd just like the ability to install apps like on macOS, Windows, Linux, and Android, without being forced to go through an app store. That's all.

 

[VisionRex]

DMA: “we gotcha, Apple. Kneel!”

Apple: “Check.”

Told some Yall so. Apple has some serious tricks up their sleeve and it’s not over. Apple just put the DMA in check, one wrong move by the EU and it’s mate.

The DMA doesn’t cover the Developer Agreements. The EU ****ed up royally. Apple can also invoke the American Right to Do Business and refuse any and all commercial interaction with Epic. You cannot force a company to do business with another company.