Apple Exploring Two-Step Touch ID and Facial Recognition System for iPhone 8

[Abazigal]

So of course those who peek over the fence are left disappointed, and those who don't peek are in a state of self-imposed denial and just get angry that anyone dare be disappointed with Apple. Then they brag about Apple's profits being so high as if that's good for the consumer.

How else does Apple earn record profits, if not by selling great products that people want? This isn't like the Epipen saga where people have no choice but to pay exorbitant prices for a potentially life-saving drug. There are tons of alternatives all around, many cheaper than the iPhone, and still enough people choose the iPhone to make to give Apple over 90% of the industry's profits.

And despite being presented with this overwhelming evidence, people are still choosing to deny this phenomenon when they should be seeking to study and understand it.

And of course I would be happy that Apple earns record profits, as this means it will continue to remain financially healthy and stay around for a good long time to come.

 

[69650]

Is there anything else going on in the Apple universe apart from the iPhone. I'm still waiting for new Mac desktops.

 

[mandrake2016]

That is up to the app developer.

You're once again missing the point: it should be a user preference for all apps.

 

[ghostface147]

They may have until maybe May to finalize a design for test production runs.

 

[4jasontv]

I use my phone more than 100 times per day (the average iPhone user is said to be pulling their phone out of their pocket 150 times/day) and I can't remember the last time the fingerprint sensor failed to identify me the first time. And that's on a phone with significantly less horsepower than the Windows PC you're comparing it to for some strange reason.

When was the last time I used my phone without looking at it? Why is that important - I didn't write that?! Furthermore, the iPhone is not *all touch screen* - there's that little dimple called the "Home" button. With it as a physical reference, I can pull my phone out of my jeans pocket and unlock it before it's in front of my face. Clearly that's quicker than first holding it up to your face and waiting whatever fraction of a second a mobile will take to recognize your face.

I'm not saying facial recognition in general isn't good tech. I'm saying in a mobile phone it doesn't add much/any value over fingerprint sensing. Just because it's possible,doesn't make something a good idea.

LOL - whoa nelly.

The strange PC reference was due to the fact that running it on a phone would make it lighter and therefore faster.

The question about using your phone without looking at it has to do with the fact that you can't use your phone without looking at it, even if it has a button you can feel. Maybe they are glancing at the time, but not interacting with it.*

You seem to have this idea that facial recognition has to be directly in front of your face (it doesn't) or that you are always able to touch your phone (you aren't). The later isn't fair. Maybe your hands are never dirty so you can always touch it, or you don't mind risking your device, or you use a 400 lb case, or whatever. Those of us who do have jobs where we can't touch our device while working would prefer a secure way to unlock the device without a finger. But to be clear, I'm not discounting your fingerprint, I am only saying that facial recognition is as good as a fingerprint. And maybe, just maybe, it might add more value to some people than what we have now.

PS - tone down that 150 times a day claim. You're probably referring to this weird 2013 presentation with poor** citation skills: http://www.kpcb.com/blog/2013-internet-trends. These articles were at least bold enough to provide a name says 85 times a day (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/technology-science/technology/revealed-heres-how-many-times-6727470 or http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/smartphone-usage-estimates_us_5637687de4b063179912dc96). In 2015 Time claimed 46 times a day (http://time.com/4147614/smartphone-usage-us-2015/) Then there is this one (http://parade.com/445288/alison-abbey/americans-are-checking-their-phones-how-many-times-a-day/) that say 200 times a day is only 4% of the population and that 48% of people check it about 25 times a day. Most citations seem to agree that the number is far less than 100 times a day.

*Assuming they sleep each day I calculate that means people are checking the time every 7 minutes (9 if they don't sleep).

**poor = absent.

 

[truthertech]

If you go back to all the MR articles that tags Kuo, you can see he's had a very good record.

• New MacBook Pro and 13-Inch 'MacBook' Coming Next Week, iMac and Display Not Ready Yet
• iPhone 7 to Include Five Colors, IPX7 Water Resistance, Dual 12MP Cameras on Plus Model
• Upgraded Apple Watch 1 Models Said to Launch Alongside Apple Watch 2 Later This Year
• Faster Apple Watch 2 With GPS, Barometer, Larger Battery, and Same Thickness to Launch Later This Year
  
• 2016 MacBook Pro May Include OLED Display Touch Bar and Touch ID
  
• Apple to Produce Single iPhone 7 Plus Model With Dual-Lens Camera and 3GB RAM
  
• Apple Watch 2 Expected to Focus on Internal Upgrades Rather Than External Changes, Launch in Late 2016
  
• Dual Camera Said to Be Exclusive to 5.5-Inch iPhone 7
  
• New A9-Based 4-Inch iPhone Expected to Launch Early 2016 With Apple Pay and Colorful Metal Casing
  
• KGI Expects New iPhones to Have 5MP Front Camera, Retain 16GB, 64GB and 128GB Capacities
  
• Next-Generation iPhone Again Rumored to Adopt 7000 Series Aluminum
• Apple Reported to Begin Shipping Apple Watch in March, 12-Inch MacBook Air in Early 2015
  
• Apple Predicted to Launch Optional Stylus Accessory Alongside 12.9-Inch 'iPad Pro'

As you can see, very small deviations from Apple's plans aside, his predictions has almost never been wrong, at least in the last few years.

That's my impression as well, but have you also compiled a list where he has been wrong? Also, not to be too picky, but I wouldn't use the word "predictions," as it implies he is coming up with these based on some tremendous analytical insights when the are more accurately called "expectations" based on he has sources in the production end who leak him the information.

 

[Pike R. Alpha]

My late sister blogged in 2012 about a meeting with Steve Jobs during her internship @apple. So far most of the features that Steve Jobs liked to see implemented, including the wallet, TouchID, the AirPods. You name it. All come to fruition. No. I am not surprised that the home button will be gone. That is after all also what Mr. Jobs wanted.

We all know that Steve lost the battle, but only so little know that my sister also lost her battle some time later. Thank you Apple (Steve Jobs personally) for giving her the time of her life. Eternal respect for the Jobs family!

 

[manu chao]

You're once again missing the point: it should be a user preference for all apps.

No, I understood you. I just don't think that this is such an important and widely-used feature that it needs to be part of 'System Preferences'. I know there are OS level settings for mobile data usage, background app refresh, access to location, contacts, photos as well as on notifications. But those are all settings where there are more than a handful of apps that will deviate from the default.

There is little point in securing your phone with your fingerprint if every other app you want to start then needs a fingerprint as well. That's just adding extra steps and waiting time (even with the 2015 or later TouchID sensor) for almost every action without adding extra security. That's like securing every door in your house with the same key. If somebody managed to crack the lock on your front door, they'll also crack the lock on the next door if it is exactly the same lock. You might as well have a global setting that every action that uses the home button also requires a fingerprint ID.

The only situation where securing apps themselves makes sense is when you are (physically) sharing your phone with others.

 

[SeattleMoose]

So now the thief will not only chop off my finger, but rip off my face?

 

[manu chao]

That's my impression as well, but have you also compiled a list where he has been wrong?

szw-mapple did his or her work on that list, wouldn't it be upon the person refuting the general notion to do some work to prove his or her point?
[doublepost=1485058007][/doublepost]

PS - tone down that 150 times a day claim. You're probably referring to this weird 2013 presentation with poor** citation skills: http://www.kpcb.com/blog/2013-internet-trends. These articles were at least bold enough to provide a name says 85 times a day (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/technology-science/technology/revealed-heres-how-many-times-6727470 or http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/smartphone-usage-estimates_us_5637687de4b063179912dc96). In 2015 Time claimed 46 times a day (http://time.com/4147614/smartphone-usage-us-2015/) Then there is this one (http://parade.com/445288/alison-abbey/americans-are-checking-their-phones-how-many-times-a-day/) that say 200 times a day is only 4% of the population and that 48% of people check it about 25 times a day. Most citations seem to agree that the number is far less than 100 times a day.

If there is source that should have reliable data on this, it would be Apple. They fully control the hardware and software stock on their phones (in regard to unlocking), that should make their data very comprehensive and thus accurate. They published a number of 80 times per day last year as many publications, eg, AppleInsider, reported on. Now, that number might be changing over time and the average for Android might very well differ noticeably. In a story reporting on Apple's numbers, Buzzfeed, for example, reported on numbers from a third-party lock screen for Android provider which determined a number of 110 unlocks per day. How representative their study is, is hard to say, but given that it reported a number quite similar to Apple's number, in order of 100 times per day, it probably is reasonably close. There might a significantly different usage pattern at the very bottom of the Android range but for an active and engaged smartphone users, in the order of 100 times per day is good starting point.

 

[randyj]

Kuo just makes up stuff as he goes, doesn't he?

I am sure he gets drip fed information from Apple.
They can then control what comes out, and how.
They can also use someone like him to get valuable feedback on the direction of a product.

In this case facial recognition. What do people think of it etc before cementing the feature in the phone.

Let's say for example Apple release the iPhone 8 with finger print and face authentication without any prior warning just a feature sprung on release day, even some fanboys may get put off.
If you release it in the press early, it gives people time to get used to an idea, or wheather they are way off the mark and not to include that feature.

 

[Benny L]

He predicts it after its apparent. He gets stuff wrong too.
[doublepost=1485021516][/doublepost]curious use of the word "bespoke" for "custom". why use british english style on a US site?
[doublepost=1485021639][/doublepost]
Nonsense. Cook was effectively CEO for years while Jobs did product design, very atypical. All of Apple 2.0's successes were under Cook as well as Jobs. And even post Jobs Apple is creating amazing hardware while killing it financially, all while retaining highest consumer satisfaction ratings. Oops.

NONSENSE- apples product pipeline is slow and getting slower- there releases are minimalistic tidbits designed to feed the appleheads whom believe apple is not going downhill.
And yes- i have had every apple release since 2007 - original iphone ,ipads , apple tv , and macbooks , and upgrade every cycle every product.
The upgrades recently are giving me less and less incentive to continue this practice.
Minimal tidbits to feed the appleheads - sir

 

[mandrake2016]

No, I understood you. I just don't think that this is such an important and widely-used feature that it needs to be part of 'System Preferences'. I know there are OS level settings for mobile data usage, background app refresh, access to location, contacts, photos as well as on notifications. But those are all settings where there are more than a handful of apps that will deviate from the default.

Those extra settings are great, and I customize them for most apps on my phone.

There is little point in securing your phone with your fingerprint if every other app you want to start then needs a fingerprint as well.

There are lots of reasons for re-asking you to authenticate again, and most authentication systems do this already -- whenever you access your "my account" page or try to change your password, or primary contact/phone/email, lots of websites/systems ask you to re-enter your password.

It is not uncommon -- I'd say it's the norm for sensitive areas of many systems/websites.

That's just adding extra steps and waiting time (even with the 2015 or later TouchID sensor) for almost every action without adding extra security. That's like securing every door in your house with the same key. If somebody managed to crack the lock on your front door, they'll also crack the lock on the next door if it is exactly the same lock. You might as well have a global setting that every action that uses the home button also requires a fingerprint ID.

6S and forward TouchID is actually annoyingly fast. A second step authentication is actually one place where I would find it convenient, as opposed to every time I pick up my phone and unlock it unwittingly by running my finger across TouchID for a split second. It's a common complaint.

All for making it super fast, but there should be a setting to allow a delay for lock screen TouchID actually.

The only situation where securing apps themselves makes sense is when you are (physically) sharing your phone with others.

And that's really the crux of the issue.

If Apple wants us to take iOS seriously as a replacement for "computers" then we need multiple accounts/profiles.

A small step in that direction would be to add more settings for controlling access to the existing one user system, such as allowing me to re-ask for TouchID where/when I wish.

 

[macfacts]

How else does Apple earn record profits, if not by selling great products that people want? ....

Ez lay away payment, aka iPhone upgrade program.

 

[Abazigal]

Ez lay away payment, aka iPhone upgrade program.

Which accounts for only a very small percentage of users. Explains the sales of some iPhones, but not all.

 

[citysnaps]

Now if they could simply make a phone that doesn't slow down to a near crawl after about a year or two, that'd be great.

Which iPhone do you own that's a year or two old that has slowed to a near crawl?

My iPhone 6+ has not and is 2+ years old.

Maybe you need to visit the genius bar for some tips and instruction?

 

[StevieD100]

This list of possible features continues to get longer and longer.

Quote "Noted KGI Securities analyst Ming-Chi Kuo"

Put them together and you get
1) Crystal Ball gazer Kuo
2) Fortue Cookie reader Kuo
3) Kuo covers all the bases so that when the next thing is released he can say 'I told you so'.

What a load of old cock. He dreams up stuff just to get page hits and see his name in print every other day or so.
Sorry for appearing to be down but if everything he foretold had actually happened apple would have no need to design another phone for at leat 5 years.

 

[rp2011]

I still say the new phone needs to be more absobant and makes whites whiter.

Nothing says new and improved as a star shaped bubble at the top of packaging stating "new and improved". That's not just innovative, it's also classy.
At the very least, the iPhone 8 needs to be gluten free and peanut free.

 

[BigDO]

Just lol if anyone still believes in an OLED edge to edge flexible buttonless iPhone.

We're getting the 7S boyos. Deal with it.

 

[Msail30bay]

Fake News! Wrong! SAD!

 

[chr1s60]

Increasingly, yes. Gone are the days of 'rumours' since everything seems to get leaked.

So true. I really miss the days of not knowing before it was announced. It made Keynotes much more exciting and entertaining.

 

[rp2011]

Just lol if anyone still believes in an OLED edge to edge flexible buttonless iPhone.

We're getting the 7S boyos. Deal with it.

I think so too. I think the new technologies for the 8 supply issues will not be fully addressed this year. That the chatter by the the supply side is for next years model.

That doesn't mean the 7s won't be another best in class device. I mean come on, it runs iOS. Any phone that runs Android is an automatic fail.

 

[kgtenacious]

They need to move away from fingerprint readers altogether - to easy to fool. Switch to finger vein readers.

 

[DCIFRTHS]

Forget the no bezel, curved, face recognizing, wireless charging iPhone, and give me a solid iPhone with Touch ID, good battery life, and I'll be VERY happy.

 

[Tech198]

Just improved technology..

All good, but really in this day and age who can how many have access to off the shelf materials to produce a 'fake' finger to by pass Touch ID? Good for under the screen, but sometimes i gonna wonder if Apple is doing this 'just because they can' or 'because its gonna be a real security threat'

Unless everyone can have access to making a copy of a finger print at any time, I don't see much of a problem.