Apple Fined $2 Million in Brazil for Selling iPhones Without Chargers

[Suckfest 9001]

I'm Brazilian and I read the Procon statement in Portuguese. I think some people are missing the point, but also it seems like it's not well explained in the article.

The reason why this lawsuit exists is because Apple claims that by not providing chargers in the box it's reducing carbon emissions, but Procon's response is that there is not enough grounds to prove that this is the case. I think if Apple just decided to remove the charging bricks from the box it would be an entirely different discussion. They claim that if Apple wants to reduce carbon emissions they should provide more information about recycling products and provide some sort of recycling program to consumers not only for old devices, but also old accessories. So Procon believes that Apple doesn't have enough grounds to advertise that by removing charges it's actually doing so because of the environment, therefore the only explanation would be for profit which should be clearly stated if this is the case (or not talked about). It's less about the action of removing a charger itself and more about the way it was originally advertised.

I wouldn't s*** on a consumer protection agency in a country like Brazil. Procon is one of the few agencies that has an actual history of helping consumers and stopping questionable behaviours from big corporations so I'm glad they are pointing out their hypocrisy.

Excellent, thank you for taking the time to explain it. This makes me more optimistic about the outcome, honestly.

 

[I7guy]

[...] their hypocrisy.

I want to focus on this, because this is not what the EU believes when it said apple was a direct contributor to e-waste. So there is no real hypocrisy here. Apple will have to do what it has to do in Brazil, but looking at the matter from different perspectives different messages are being sent to Apple.

To me, the removal of the brick makes sense especially since the charging protocol is pretty much a standard, as I mentioned above.

 

[hans1972]

You really can’t fathom the fact that that many people out there (most people actually) prefer Android huh? Like I don’t like Android at all but I’m not about to say something that mega condescending towards the majority of the population. Yikes

If you already bought iPhones and you like iOS and iPhones, very few are going to shift just because the charger is not included.

If you are an Android user, Apples decisions don't affect you, and you shouldn't care.

 

[Suckfest 9001]

An iphone uses a standard charging mechanism of USB which is a standard in the smartphone and accessory universe. Charging a phone is not in question here as one can use any port, any brick, any usb-a/usb-c to lightning cable.

My Bose qc ii did not come with a charger, but a cable...that doesn't mean I don't have the means to charge it or can't get find a brick, buy a brick or find a usb port somewhere in my domain.

Difference being, your Bose came with a USB-A tip which has been the industry standard for a very long time. USB-C hasn't, and Apple has never sold an iPhone with a USB-C brick. It's changing the port AND removing the brick in 1 move that caused all the anger honestly.

 

[shenfrey]

Unfortunately they will find $2 Million behind the Apple Couch. Fines need to be more severe than this for Apple to pay attention.

 

[Suckfest 9001]

Unfortunately they will find $2 Million behind the Apple Couch. Fines need to be more severe than this for Apple to pay attention.

I've always felt that it should be percentage-based. Flat fees are real scary up to a certain point then it becomes pocket change.

 

[code-m]

Or we can just adjust and have realistic expectations. You know, and a drawer of old chargers less that get made for the bin.

I feel Apple had an opportunity here, if it claimed people have a draw full of unused USB-A 5W chargers that their provided rather than higher Wattage chargers or USB-C chargers sooner the consumer would not be in this particular issue. Why did Apple not offer a trade-in/up option for those 5W chargers and wired EarPods. If you are going to claim being all for the environment offer solutions with options not just, hey you must already have one so there you go, what if you sold your old iPhone with the charger and Lightening to USB-A cable the guess what buy either Apple’s USB-C charger or another.

If I stand corrected I don’t believe the basic warranty covers damage from third-party USB-C power adapter, unless the language has changed with iPhone 12.

 

[hans1972]

It boggles the mind how many people are willing to throw away their own consumer rights because they’re so deeply in love with a mega corp. apples advertising really does work

I don't consider getting a charger or batteries or cables with a product as a consumer right.

I don't even consider being able to use a procuct without additional costs a consumer right.

We should be extremely careful in dictating how companies do their business when it comes to pricing and how they package their products.

 

[Suckfest 9001]

I don't consider getting a charger or batteries or cables with a product as a consumer right.

I don't even consider being able to use a procuct without additional costs a consumer right.

We should be extremely careful in dictating how companies do their business when it comes to pricing and how they package their products.

Agree to disagree then, but I think those are basic consumer rights. We've always sold mainstream phones with the charger brick. It's a bit of a coincidence that they decided to change the included cable port AND get rid of the brick at the very same time, isn't it

 

[leonardoasm]

I want to focus on this, because this is not what the EU believes when it said apple was a direct contributor to e-waste. So there is no real hypocrisy here. Apple will have to do what it has to do in Brazil, but looking at the matter from different perspectives different messages are being sent to Apple.

To me, the removal of the brick makes sense especially since the charging protocol is pretty much a standard, as I mentioned above.

Fair enough. I think what Procon claims is that if this is a step they need to take to reduce e-waste, they should also be concerned with recycling programs and this is what's causing the issue in the first place.

It's hard to please everyone and like a lot of other people mentioned, different countries will have different regulations. I still believe it's a profit move, just because we rarely hear about the impact of old products and recycling of accessories. But I know that's just how a big corporation works. It's about the environment, but it's also about continuing to ship new devices every year, to market new devices to grab more customers and to continue to make profits. I think we're far from having an ideal solution to this issue.

 

[code-m]

You think?

If I am not mistaken, once a company stipulates the market price it cannot increase of violating the law. It can adjust the price based on currency exchange every quarter which Apple does from time to time and collect on VAT, but it cannot increase the price after the fact for including items it was deemed to have violated, doing so would cause Apple more legal problems then it’s worth.

 

[bdslade]

If one already has the accessories there is no upsell and a save on the environment. As Samsung gets into this however this may be the norm.

We already explained why they may not have the accessories, you're simply ignoring that evidence.

If Samsung does it, it doesn't make it any more ethical, moral, or just. Just because multiple companies get cheap, doesn't let Apple off the hook. In fact, it means they started the trend. LOL

 

[Suckfest 9001]

We already explained why they may not have the accessories, you're simply ignoring that evidence.

If Samsung does it, it doesn't make it any more ethical, moral, or just. Just because multiple companies get cheap, doesn't let Apple off the hook. In fact, it means they started the trend. LOL

People just like to assume that you got a bunch of USB-C bricks laying around but the fact of the matter is, if you didn’t specifically purchase an iPhone 11 Pro before the 12 came out, you would have never seen a USB C brick in your life as an iPhone owner.

 

[crcuilla]

For the amount of time some folks have spent on here "arguing" against a silly power brick not being included, they probably could have earned enough money, even at minimum wage, to buy one (or more).

But...but...but...the immorality and injustice of it!!!

🤣

 

[hans1972]

You’re wrong, plain and simple. A paying customer is far more entitled to complain than a non-paying customer. If you want to be perfectly 100% happy with all your purchases and you keep all the complaints bottled up inside then you do you. I reserve the right as a paying customer to complain and whine and bark, as you’ve put it.

Again, I disagree. If you buy a product and you know beforehand about its shortcomings and you still complain, you just look stupid. And it makes you angrier.

You shouldn't complain, just buy stuff which fulfils your requirements.

I have never complained about a product I have not bought and I have never complained about a products shortcomings if I new of them beforehand.

Everyone should be like this!

 

[Suckfest 9001]

Again, I disagree. If you buy a product and you know beforehand about its shortcomings and you still complain, you just look stupid. And it makes you angrier.

You shouldn't complain, just buy stuff which fulfils your requirements.

I have never complained about a product I have not bought and I have never complained about a products shortcomings if I new of them beforehand.

Everyone should be like this!

No. A paying customer is entitled to complain about shortcomings with the product or anything they want changed. If the world worked the way you think it does, Apple wouldn't have a Feedback section on their site.

Again if you're perfectly happy accepting the product you bought entirely, you do you. But some of us still believe in fighting for things we want and you may just have to deal with that.

Also I'm not the one complaining to Apple here, I'm agreeing with a country that's enforcing its local laws, as is their right and as is mine.

The nature of the complaint in my case isn't demanding that Apple give me a free charger for my purchased device - it's demanding they change the rules going forward. Nobody's trying to retroactively change anything here, so stop using that as an argument. I knew what I bought, but I want it changed going forward for future purchases. Nobody said anything about changing what I already bought.

 

[code-m]

An iphone uses a standard charging mechanism of USB which is a standard in the smartphone and accessory universe. Charging a phone is not in question here as one can use any port, any brick, any usb-a/usb-c to lightning cable.

My Bose qc ii did not come with a charger, but a cable...that doesn't mean I don't have the means to charge it or can't get find a brick, buy a brick or find a usb port somewhere in my domain.

You bring up a good point, the difference is that consumers consider a computer, tablet, smartphone as main products not accessories like smart watches, wireless earphones/buds, etc. Accessory manufacturers were depending on people who use their product such as headphones will be in compliment with a smartphone, tablet, computer, etc that does (did) come with a power adapter or some form of aux port on the device to charge it. iPhone does not have a method to charge other devices but iPad Pro/Air with USB-C does as well as a computer.

The question remains does Apple now consider an iPhone as an accessory and expects consumers to charge it via iPad/Mac/Qi/MagSafe/power adapter.

 

[hans1972]

We already explained why they may not have the accessories, you're simply ignoring that evidence.

In those cases, they have to buy a charger causing more climate harm.

But, the charger they bought they can probably use for 10-20 years for their next 4-5 phones. So instead of 4-5 chargers being produced, only one is being produced.

The logic is pretty simple:

1. Producing and transporting chargers causes climate harm
2. Making it more expensive makes less people buy it in the long run
3. Less climate harm

You are thing last year, this year and maybe next year. How about thinking the next 30 years when it comes to chargers for electronic devices?

 

[Suckfest 9001]

In those cases, they have to buy a charger causing more climate harm.

But, the charger they bought they can probably use for 10-20 years for their next 4-5 phones. So instead of 4-5 chargers being produced, only one is being produced.

The logic is pretty simple:

1. Producing and transporting chargers causes climate harm
2. Making it more expensive makes less people buy it in the long run
3. Less climate harm

You are thing last year, this year and maybe next year. How about thinking the next 30 years when it comes to chargers for electronic devices?

The math is offset by the fact that not a single previous iPhone came with this hypothetical charger that we're supposed to re-use. So I can definitely see that charger brick being a very popular purchase, meaning a lot of waste due to extra packaging.

 

[Aoligei]

An iphone uses a standard charging mechanism of USB which is a standard in the smartphone and accessory universe. Charging a phone is not in question here as one can use any port, any brick, any usb-a/usb-c to lightning cable.

My Bose qc ii did not come with a charger, but a cable...that doesn't mean I don't have the means to charge it or can't get find a brick, buy a brick or find a usb port somewhere in my domain.

I don’t know man.

If you think your argument hold any water, then don’t blame consumer when their iPhone start on fire for using third party charger.

You cannot in one hand, saying it is OK for Apple not including charger because you can use pretty much any charging accessories.

Then on other hand, when **** happens, you are blaming consumer for using non-Apple charger.

If you have both way, it is essentially saying, you must pay a fortune to buy Apple branded charger. If you want iPhone, pay up for the phone and charger.

What next? Apple clam that people already have lots of boxes, so all you get is a phone?

 

[SuperMatt]

Agree to disagree then, but I think those are basic consumer rights. We've always sold mainstream phones with the charger brick. It's a bit of a coincidence that they decided to change the included cable port AND get rid of the brick at the very same time, isn't it

This is Gen-Z entitlement syndrome. I guess you are just too young to remember “batteries not included.” Brazil needs to get a clue.

As for the argument that “it costs $1000!” - If you buy an electric car, it costs a lot more than that, but you need to install your own charger at home if you want to charge it. Is Brazil fining all electric car makers too? Are they going after Samsung too? All Apple has to do is show that the agency lets the same thing go for other companies and they will have to drop this.

 

[code-m]

It is the only choice you have.

Consumers and governments should have very little say in this. If you don't like the power Apple gets by having a closed and integrated platform, don't buy Apple in the first place.

So both platforms or all should offer to transfer licenses as what was originally started out has changed.

Maybe if this was law it would place greater pressure on all platforms involved to strive to do better as it risk the possibility to shift to the other and loose revenue due to prior purchases.

 

[Suckfest 9001]

This is Gen-Z entitlement syndrome. I guess you are just too young to remember “batteries not included.” Brazil needs to get a clue.

As for the argument that “it costs $1000!” - If you buy an electric car, it costs a lot more than that, but you need to install your own charger at home if you want to charge it. Is Brazil fining all electric car makers too? Are they going after Samsung too? All Apple has to do is show that the agency lets the same thing go for other companies and they will have to drop this.

I'm almost 30 years old and remember every phone I've ever purchased, all of which (from cheap-o pieces of crap to my iPhone XS Max) came with a charger cable and charger brick. This "batteries not included" verbiage applies to other product segments and nothing to do with cellular phones. And it wasn't a pretty thing to have to read on a box there either, so it's even worse here on a product that costs 1000+ dollars.

Enough with this immature name-calling, show some respect.

 

[code-m]

People just like to assume that you got a bunch of USB-C bricks laying around but the fact of the matter is, Apple has never sold an iPhone with a USB-C brick included. Where is this hypothetical drawer of USB-C bricks coming from?

You may consider correcting this comment as iPhone 11 Pro did include a 18W USB-C power adapter.

 

[Suckfest 9001]

You may consider correcting this comment as iPhone 11 Pro did include a 18W USB-C power adapter.

Did they retroactively remove it from the box? On Apple’s site it’s not included.

Edit: I stand corrected, and have modified the comment. Thanks for bringing that up, as I also skipped the 11 Pro!