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Well, when does inspiration turn into copying in your opinion? Does it have to be exactly 100% the same? You think HP was "inspired" but lots of other people think they "copied", I guess.

Whether it's copying or not depends on how the design was created, which we don't know. If someone hires Jony Ive's twin brother who completely independently creates a design that looks very similar, that is not copying. If a company tells their designers "make it look like a MBP, but just different enough that they can't sue us" then it is copying. Legally it doesn't matter.

What matters is whether there is a design patent, and whether a design matches that design patent. And that is something that can be checked quite objectively. The designs don't have to look identical. And of course Apple is not the only one with design patents. Many years ago when eMachines tried to sell an iMac clone and got sued, it turned out that eMachines also had design patents for an all-in-one computer. But somehow they thought a computer that looked like Apple's design patent would sell better than a computer that looked like their own design patent.

With the photos of the inside of the HP Envy and the MBP shown, I would suspect that some copying has happened, but the designs don't match.
 
With the photos of the inside of the HP Envy and the MBP shown, I would suspect that some copying has happened, but the designs don't match.

All it takes is one judge who thinks the HP Envy looks similar enough to the MBP to grant Apple an injunction. So far Apple is batting pretty highly in terms of getting those injunctions worldwide.
 
Almost exactly the same=similar. I think HP got inspired by the MBP making a similar laptop, but not exactly alike.

Don't people on here remember when the MacBook Pro was updated to it's current design back in 2008?

It got a lot of criticism because it's glass screen and black surround looked just like the HP Pavilion. :)

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Some of the coments in this thread are quite amusing.
 
All it takes is one judge who thinks the HP Envy looks similar enough to the MBP to grant Apple an injunction. So far Apple is batting pretty highly in terms of getting those injunctions worldwide.

"Similar to MBP" doesn't matter. "Similar to an Apple design patent" matters. And the difference between this HP Envy and the MBP are much bigger than the difference between Samsung tablet and iPad. Finding a judge who thinks the HP Envy matches Apple's design patents is really, really hard if it doesn't match.


Eh. Copy? Sorta, I guess. I'd say it's more an issue of not having much room for variance once you get down to a certain size. If you go with a tapered bottom on a laptop that small, (which Apple wasn't the first to use, by the way) the end result is gonna end up looking similar to the Air.

It's the same reason why all tablets look about the same. There's not much you can do with a screen you hold in your hand.

You hear this argument a lot, but it is just plain wrong. Tablets don't look all about the same. For example, Toshiba and Sony tablets look nothing like an iPad at all. Now if your goal is "make a tablet that looks exactly like the best selling tablet made by Apple", then admittedly you don't have much choice. But maybe a company should set their goals higher, like "make a tablet that looks better than the iPad".
 
Don't people on here remember when the MacBook Pro was updated to it's current design back in 2008?

It got a lot of criticism because it's glass screen and black surround looked just like the HP Pavilion. :)

Image

Some of the coments in this thread are quite amusing.

All i remember from that time was people saying it looked like a HP and that it was fake. Re-reading that thread i forgot how bad some of the comments were
 
Apple basically is growing its share with the low end of its range such as the MBP 13 and the AIR.

Their top end is suffering which is why the Mac Pro is close to being discontinued.

The MBP is priced like a Uber notebook but it just isnt. 1GB 6770? 50$ GPU Seriously?

This should come with a 470 GTX minimum and 8GB ram STANDARD 30$ 8GB cost me!!!!

I like to upgrade every 18 months but Apple next time im going to leave it much longer or even move away completely.

High pricing and poor specification might make the uneducated apple fanboi happy but it wont make me or any other people like me happy.
 
High pricing and poor specification might make the uneducated apple fanboi happy but it wont make me or any other people like me happy.

Do I get this right: According to you, anybody buying a MacBook is an "uneducated apple fanboi"? I think you should really start educating yourself. Try learning what makes the _value_ of a product. When you find out, feel free to tell Mr. Dell and Mr. Wang about it so they can start competing with Apple :D


LOL @ all the "copying" crying. Anyone remember this...

"We have always been shameless about stealing great ideas" - S.Jobs.

Nothing's changed.

Quoting without understanding the deeper meaning behind it. Nothing's changed.

Let me explain this to you: There are ideas out there, and some are great, and often someone has great ideas and hasn't got the talent to turn them into a product. You know, the hard work. Design. Development. Shipping a product that people want. Anyone can have ideas. Ideas are ten a penny. Turning an idea into a shipping product that people want, that's the hard part, that's the part that most companies can't do, and that's what Apple is good at. Yes, Apple will always be shameless about stealing great ideas. That's what companies are supposed to do.

Nobody at Apple would complain if Samsung stole the idea of making a great tablet that people love to use. And then hired some great software developers and great designers to turn that idea into a product. The complaint is about stealing Apple's work, not Apple's ideas.
 
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LOL @ all the "copying" crying. Anyone remember this...

"We have always been shameless about stealing great ideas" - S.Jobs.

Nothing's changed.
 
Yes, it has to be exactly the same. Or else, Apple copied the LG Prada, the joojoo tablet, or anything else that looks similar to any Apple product that came out before Apple did it.

I never understood the whole LG Prada thing anyway...

LG claims Apple copied the Prada after it was shown in September 2006... but it would be a safe bet to say there were final iPhone designs and/or working iPhones in Cupertino long before anyone laid eyes on the LG Prada.

There's no way Apple had spent over 2 years on the iPhone... but waited until the last minute and luckily got a boost from LG to finish up the look of the iPhone's hardware and software.

Or... people must think Apple snuck into LG's laboratory and said "oh snap... that's it! Get Jony Ive over here... he's gotta see this!" :rolleyes:

1535080777_39cc2a8207_z.jpg
 
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Actually, MBP wasn't the first one with a black border around the screen and black keys:

...

If you're saying that other laptops are copying the MBP design, you are wrong.

...and this approach to analyzing design is why Apple has found it so easy to stay ahead of the pack, methinks...
 
Do I get this right: According to you, anybody buying a MacBook is an "uneducated apple fanboi"? I think you should really start educating yourself. Try learning what makes the _value_ of a product. When you find out, feel free to tell Mr. Dell and Mr. Wang about it so they can start competing with Apple :D




Quoting without understanding the deeper meaning behind it. Nothing's changed.

Let me explain this to you: There are ideas out there, and some are great, and often someone has great ideas and hasn't got the talent to turn them into a product. You know, the hard work. Design. Development. Shipping a product that people want. Anyone can have ideas. Ideas are ten a penny. Turning an idea into a shipping product that people want, that's the hard part, that's the part that most companies can't do, and that's what Apple is good at. Yes, Apple will always be shameless about stealing great ideas. That's what companies are supposed to do.

Nobody at Apple would complain if Samsung stole the idea of making a great tablet that people love to use. And then hired some great software developers and great designers to turn that idea into a product. The complaint is about stealing Apple's work, not Apple's ideas.

As the owner of 2 15" MBP's 5 iphones and an iPad i think im qualified to critique any of apples products.
 
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What are you... blind? I just saw the HP Envy at their site and it looks like a replica of the MacBook Pro. Shape, Body, keyboard, touchpad, etc. It's a copy-cat version of the MacBook Pro.

Get real, it's a shameful copy, just like all the other MacBook Air copies coming up. Compare this "new look" of the HP Envy with all their previous models. Compare it to all other vendors' models. All completely different to the Envy.

That's because it's a copy. Doesn't take much brain to recognize that. Sorry to disappoint you, but it's a total rip-off.

I'm sure Apple will sue the heck out of them, and they have all rights to do so.
Well they have the red accents from beats audio so it's not an exact copy (not as good), but pretty damn close. Shameful nonetheless.
 
I never understood the whole LG Prada thing anyway...

LG claims Apple copied the Prada after it was shown in September 2006... but it would be a safe bet to say there were final iPhone designs and/or working iPhones in Cupertino long before anyone laid eyes on the LG Prada.

There's no way Apple had spent over 2 years on the iPhone... but waited until the last minute and luckily got a boost from LG to finish up the look of the iPhone's hardware and software.

Or... people must think Apple snuck into LG's laboratory and said "oh snap... that's it! Get Jony Ive over here... he's gotta see this!" :rolleyes:

Image
Besides I don't think anyone would mistake one for the other.

Now Samsung on the other hand....that's just a blatant and shameful ripoff. The Galaxy Ace Plus just came out this year. iPhone 3G was released in July 2008.

samsung-joke.jpg
 
Apple products easily last far longer than most other computers. Enough so that any "Apple tax" is washed away by the difference in longevity. That Snow Leopard and Lion don't run on ancient RISC computers (mostly pre 2006) is a source of irritation to owners of those old work-horses since Macs hardly ever die. (I actually never have had one die and I started with the very first Mac)

Frankly, I'm more irritated that my 1080p video is a PITA to edit on this 8+ year old PPC Mac than I'm "missing out" on some Lion features.

The MBP is priced out of the market. The Mac Pro is on its deathbed, no ones buying them.

Ahem.
If you haven't noticed, 75% of the market is no longer desktops.

And for what's left, the consumer-centric aspect of Apple's target demographic means that the iMac and mini are more than adequate performers, so they're probably 80% of that 25%. Basically, the Mac Pro has become a specialty machine.

Oh, and with my old PPC PowerMac, I've been waiting and waiting for a new Mac Pro...first for one with Firewire 3200, but now for a Thunderbolt-equipped one ... having only four fast HDD's simply isn't enough storage for my needs (my PPC Mac is running eight as I speak).


I get 3 - 3.5 years from my Apple laptops, while my coworkers are replacing their Dells, HPs, Compaqs and Sonys at 14 - 18 months and generally it is not a performance move it is a durability and reliability mandated upgrade. When you figure configuration and maintenance plus lost productivity, from my perspective Apple laptops have remained the better buy for the buck.

Ditto on that. I'd suggest your Windows-based coworkers consider looking at the Lenovo Thinkpads - they're not as good as the old IBM ones in terms of durability, but they're still better than the Dells & Sonys in particular...


-hh
 
Don't people on here remember when the MacBook Pro was updated to it's current design back in 2008?

It got a lot of criticism because it's glass screen and black surround looked just like the HP Pavilion. :)

Image

Some of the coments in this thread are quite amusing.
I had a Pavilion and I can honestly say I would not mistake a MacBook pro for it. One is brushed aluminum and complete unibody, the other clearly is not.
 
As the owner of 2 15" MBP's 5 iphones and an iPad i think im qualified to critique any of apples products.

How about you get off your fanboi pedestal and open your eyes.

This is not about criticizing products, that is about _you_ insulting people. And please explain to me how come that you are insulting people for buying Apple products and then claiming that you own eight of their products. That seems to be completely irrational. Unless you passed by an Apple Store and someone forced you at gunpoint to buy these MacBook Pros, iPhones and iPad.

So why on earth did you buy all this stuff when you think they have no value? Name a company which makes laptops, phones or tablets that are better value for money. And _then_ explain to us why you didn't buy their products, but Apple's.
 
I had a Pavilion and I can honestly say I would not mistake a MacBook pro for it. One is brushed aluminum and complete unibody, the other clearly is not.

Let's face it, if you mistake any non-Apple product for an Apple product, you really need to get your eyes tested. :)

They were complaining because the MBP had a new glass screen with black surround which looked very similar to the one on the HP being sold at the time.
 
Let's face it, if you mistake any non-Apple product for an Apple product, you really need to get your eyes tested. :)

They were complaining because the MBP had a new glass screen with black surround which looked very similar to the one on the HP being sold at the time.

I never have. But then I don think Apple rips off other people's stuff.
 
Apple's market share has steadily increased since they moved away from PPC to Intel based machines that can support windows applications natively. They've always built great appliances but now Apple being more universal will sell to a larger market. Funny that it took being able to run windows to finally move a large volume of Macs. :rolleyes:
 
This is not about criticizing products, that is about _you_ insulting people. And please explain to me how come that you are insulting people for buying Apple products and then claiming that you own eight of their products. That seems to be completely irrational. Unless you passed by an Apple Store and someone forced you at gunpoint to buy these MacBook Pros, iPhones and iPad.

So why on earth did you buy all this stuff when you think they have no value? Name a company which makes laptops, phones or tablets that are better value for money. And _then_ explain to us why you didn't buy their products, but Apple's.

The products i purchased from Apple at the time were a good enough mix of price and performance to warrant what i paid for them.

This balance has now shifted and the pricing has gotten away from its performance. Especially on the MBP line of notebooks.

Apple has added nothing to these notebooks to justify their pricing changes. Wholesale Quad core CPU costs same as a dual core did when dual core was the only option but apple has added hundreds to the price of the notebook. 8GB ram is priced at £160 which costs £35 at retail their HD Matt screen is another £120 on top of the base price which is absurd.

from a 2.2ghz CPU to a 2.5ghz costs £590!!!! Seriously wtf? £2 a mhz!

If you read a REAL tech blog like Anandtech you will see many people looking at stuff objectively.

Some people can appreciate a company and product without being part of the "Cult"

But lucky for Apple the Cult ask very few questions and generally will hand over their cash without question to the tune of Apples drum.
 
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Apple's market share has steadily increased since they moved away from PPC to Intel based machines that can support windows applications natively. They've always built great appliances but now Apple being more universal will sell to a larger market. Funny that it took being able to run windows to finally move a large volume of Macs. :rolleyes:

Amen!

There is no other PC that one can buy to run both, since Apple doesn't license its OS.

The move to Intel was brilliant and Apple realized that the PPC chips architecture wasn't going to go anywhere.

Jobs vision of the integration of hardware, software and and and is now being talked about as an ecosystem and the copying of that is already going on.

Macs last a long time. I am running a 1994 PPC with a G4 board accelerator from OWC and it does everything I need to do. Businesses don't always need the latest. I am not even using all it can do.

Bought a used 2007 MBP 17" on ebay and is still in top shape.

The only Apple purchase I ever regretted was the lowest Performa configuration. It taught me to always buy the highest config, which will be the lowest in only a matter of years.

Every Mac was worth its money and still is.

New consumers coming from PC's are delighted about how easy a Mac is to learn. Current Mac users know what they have.

If you are buying 2 PC's over 3 years or just one Mac the price difference is minute.

Apple doesn't cater to spec hounds, they -amongst other products - just make great hardware that lasts!
 
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