Apple Marches in San Francisco Pride Parade

[hagar]

Definitely not! That's not what the striped coloured Apple logo stood for.
[doublepost=1562067064][/doublepost]I'm not sure that companies really need to make a big statement. In this day and age, in the UK most people are completely fine with gay people. Anybody who isn't has the right to feel that way, but they're obligated by law, employment policies etc to treat everybody with respect and will be penalised if they don't give people the respect they deserve on any grounds.

In my life so far, nobody seems to have a problem with gay people. Some are a little uncomfortable as they've never been around many gay people or known many. What people do have an issue with, are the drama queens who rub it in your face. Thankfully, most gay people I know just want to live a normal life, be themselves and don't care to make a big point about it.

Everybody should have pride about who they are, what they do etc, doesn't always mean a big parade is needed, but that's just my opinion. Each to their own.

So because people in the UK are completely fine with gay people (which I know for a fact isn’t true), there shouldn't be a gay pride in San Francisco? Ok, noted.

And because nobody in your life has a problem with gay people, everything is fine and the gay community should stop protesting. Ok, noted.

Curiously, you admit some people you know are uncomfortable around gay people. And they don’t know many. Isn’t that the root of the problem? That they’re looked at differently, and would probably feel uncomfortable as well around your friends?

Imagine people were uncomfortable around you because of something that isn’t the norm, wouldn’t you be unhappy about it and try to address it?

 

[asiga]

Are you doing this on purpose to mock or upset people?

Why on earth would it be mocking or upsetting people to say that pride is not something you ask for, but something you feel when you (or others) achieved a good goal, and even then you don't shout "pride" but just celebrate?

Moreover, the more reasons a great person has to feel proud, the most humble will this person be, because great persons show their beauty within their humility, not in their pride.

[...]obviously gay pride is about equal rights.

Obviously? So, you mean that if somebody is in a trial and asks the judge for pride, it will be understood he's not asking for pride but to have equal rights at the trial? First time I hear of that meaning for this word.

[...] Maybe you would be more comfortable if there were gay protests instead of celebrations, but actually that’s how they started out.

I didn't say I'm uncomfortable. What I said is that this pride thing is a trick arising from the subconscious because they are actually ashamed even if they try to lie themselves. How can a request for pride be a celebration? When you celebrate, you are happy, you don't request happiness.

As protests against police brutality and the raiding of gay bars. If you’re so interested in the topic, you can read up on the history of the gay movement.

Again, I cannot think of any group that decided to ask for pride because of the police being hard.

But don’t trip over the word pride, that’s just embarrassing.

Finally, we agree: it's sad to see so many people lying themselves in these requests for pride.
[doublepost=1562072354][/doublepost]

You’ve lost me here. You want to use my quote for the next time someone says they can alter their genetics? You have my permission there.

Nope. It's for the next time somebody asks for freedom at "trying different types of sex". It's good to know that now I even found a reason from somebody belonging to their ideology who claims that it's not about experimenting, but about nature.

 

[neliason]

Why are you arguing against me and then making my point? Yes, we can define marriage to be whatever we want it to be. And now we have defined it to be a union of two people, regardless of gender. And yes, they can marry without producing children or being in love. Everybody happy.

No, I’m pointing out that if we can just define marriage to be whatever we want then there is no justification for the courts to force a particular definition on us. There was no discrimination if we happened to define marriage as between a man and a woman. It is like the courts saying a speed limit of 65 mph is somehow unconstitutional because it discriminates against some people who want to define it as 60 mph.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Nope. It's for the next time somebody asks for freedom at "trying different types of sex". It's good to know that now I even found a reason from somebody belonging to their ideology who claims that it's not about experimenting, but about nature.

I don’t think you’ve understood what I said to be honest. People don’t need others permission to try different types of sex and those who have sex with members of the same sex while experimenting are likely bisexual anyway.

 

[doelcm82]

No, I’m pointing out that if we can just define marriage to be whatever we want then there is no justification for the courts to force a particular definition on us. There was no discrimination if we happened to define marriage as between a man and a woman. It is like the courts saying a speed limit of 65 mph is somehow unconstitutional because it discriminates against some people who want to define it as 60 mph.

It's really nothing like that.

Besides, defining marriage as between a man and a women discriminates against both men and women. If you defined it that way, a man could marry a woman, but a woman could not. Likewise a woman could marry a man, but a man couldn't.

Now a woman can marry a man and a man can marry a man. A man now has the same marriage rights that a woman used to have.

You have more marriage rights now than you did before, and the marriage rights of men and women are equal now where they weren't before.

 

[AndyDiamond]

I came here for all the usual negative comments.

 

[hagar]

I came here for all the usual negative comments.

And some people don’t disappoint.

Since when do people who suffered discrimination require to ask for pride? People with physical handicaps were discriminated in the past, yet never had to ask for pride, and now the Paralimpycs is a reality which never needed to ask for pride, even if they suffered discrimination in the past. Mastering a sport while having a physical handicap is worthy of pride in itself, no need to ask for it. The same applies to race discrimination: Have you ever seen a discriminated race asking for pride? They ask for rights, not for pride. As hard as I try, I cannot find any group that suffered or suffers discrimination and needs to ask for pride.

You are still hung up on the pride label. I explained to you already why it’s called pride: because this is a group of people that get stigmatised and shamed for who they are. Pride is the opposite of that. What’s so hard to understand about that?

Why can’t you deal with the fact that people should accept themselves and be proud about who and what they are?

 

[bandrews]

Firstly what the hell are you on about? Women forcing operations on newborn babies??? Where do I say that then??? I was referring to the parents changing their sex like this sick couple:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/840528/Gender-fluid-family-mum-dad-neutral-Nikki-Louise-Braven-Star-Cloud?spot_im_scroll_to_comments=true

Or how about a man who gave birth to a child:

http//www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/9077506/Sex-change-British-man-gives-birth-to-son.html

Or we also have this one who gave birth to one child as a women, then a second one as a man:

http://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/transgender-man-gives-birth-baby-first-child-woman-kaci-sullivan-wisconsin-a8107481.html%3famp

This is sick and wrong, the poor child will be confused for their entire life, I draw the line at this as I do parents encouraging under 18’s to change sex, you want to do it do it after your 18 and YOU pay for it, or the NHS which currently does, if they won’t treat it as mental illness which it is.
It is not natural or nature in any way shape or form, if men were meant to give birth we would. Religion doesn’t even come into it.

Secondly you are totally missing the point, you will wake up and realise you can’t change the world one day with a month of celebrating your sexuality as I pointed out, these countries have far bigger issues and changing their attitudes or laws towards gay people is probably not even on their list let alone near the top!

Thirdly stop putting opinions in my comments thanks, I not once said ‘I’m happy gays are being beaten up’... get of your high horse mate and stop presuming everyone hates you or gay people... because claiming and thinking things like that is what makes them have no sympathy or time for you, why should they?

Wow. Where to start...

How about

I don’t like the fact in the UK a mother has done on multiple occasions, and can, have a child and then instantly after change their sex through treatment and operations, that should not be allowed.

Having a child then instantly changing its sex through treatment and operations. You said it. Not me.

It's always amusing hearing straight "normal" people telling LGBT people to "get over it". You have ZERO first hand experience of what you're talking about so how about you come back and comment after you do or you gain some kind of medical qualification that gives your posts some kind of traction. Until then you opinions are barely more than a rant.

 

[iReality85]

It wouldn't be homophobic, but it would be completely missing the point of why LGBT pride arose in the first place. Most calls I hear for "straight pride" are out of spite. It's about showing up the LGBT community. Not out of any real pride in your heterosexuality.

I agree with your assessment of "straight pride." It's being done to mock the LGBT community.

Take this quote, for example, which is taken right from Super Happy Fun America's website:

“Straight people are an oppressed majority. We will fight for the right of straights everywhere to express pride in themselves without fear of judgement and hate. The day will come when straights will finally be included as equals among all of the other orientations.” – John Hugo, President of Super Happy Fun America

That's nuts. Straight people are not oppressed in the slightest, and no one is judging them. Having protections put in place so that LGBT people are not discriminated against does not make straight people less equal. That is such convoluted thinking.

 

[felixroqu3]

My point still stands. In the UK they have as much rights as straight people, as I said they are treated equally. I guess it’s different having an American mentality to it?
You don’t need to tell someone your gay for them to be friends with you, it’s not a disability!

You just said it, this pertains to the UK. Being gay in America is COMPLETELY different than being gay in the UK. It's normalized there and has been for a very long time.

 

[curtvaughan]

I'd like to see Armed Forces Appreciation Month; also I'd like to see Emergency Services Appreciation Month.

Armed Forces Appreciation doesn't need a month. It's ubiquitous in the U.S. The military here is celebrated before every sporting event, honored on both Veteran's Day and Memorial Day, etc. Same goes for "straight" appreciation days - every day that you aren't vilified for displaying public affection, or for being married, being condemned by Christian and Muslim religious groups, and also getting harassed in the military, is a straight appreciation day. Don't get me wrong. I'm both a veteran of the Vietnam period and straight, but I can't see how gays deserve derision for peacefully demonstrating their predicament every now and then. Cook's stances on gay rights and privacy are the two main things I like about him. As for First Response and Emergency providers, I agree. Jon Stewart's recent testimony before a Senate committee on their behalf was very apropos.

 

[Jensend]

Moreover, the more reasons a great person has to feel proud, the most humble will this person

The “pride” in gay pride is the opposite of shame, not the opposite of humility.

asks for pride

you keep saying that. I have no idea what that means.

 

[Tinmania]

This makes me sick. Why do brands pander to those that live in sin?
If you have any faith in G-d you would know that homosexuality is an abomination.
They do this to normalize the sin.
It is still sin. Don’t do it. Pray for forgiveness. Open your heart and pray for redemption.
I’ll be praying for them.

Praying to whom? "Your" god? Yea, he doesn't exist. Joke's on you, apparently.
[doublepost=1562081663][/doublepost]

Ask random women you don’t know if they are happy to share toilets with strange men

You literally told someone to ask random women about how they feel when on the toilet. You straight-up actually did that. Have you lost your mind?

 

[neliason]

Besides, defining marriage as between a man and a women discriminates against both men and women. If you defined it that way, a man could marry a woman, but a woman could not. Likewise a woman could marry a man, but a man couldn't.

I don’t think you understand. If we are making up stuff it can’t be discriminatory. If there is no standard by which to judge something then it can’t be said to be discriminatory. Discriminatory, as you mean it, suggest an unjust treatment.

I can’t marry my mother, father, or sister. When will that discrimination end? By the way no one should find that objectionable since marriage is apparently only about love. Who doesn’t love their family more than everyone else? I should be able to marry them all, otherwise it is discrimination.

 

[bandrews]

I don’t think you understand. If we are making up stuff it can’t be discriminatory. If there is no standard by which to judge something then it can’t be said to be discriminatory. Discriminatory, as you mean it, suggest an unjust treatment.

I can’t marry my mother, father, or sister. When will that discrimination end? By the way no one should find that objectionable since marriage is apparently only about love. Who doesn’t love their family more than everyone else? I should be able to marry them all, otherwise it is discrimination.

Why not do away with marriage altogether then?

 

[doelcm82]

I don’t think you understand. If we are making up stuff it can’t be discriminatory. If there is no standard by which to judge something then it can’t be said to be discriminatory. Discriminatory, as you mean it, suggest an unjust treatment.

But there is a standard. Many gay people want to marry their chosen life-partners. The reasons given to prevent it didn't stand up to legal scrutiny. The reasons for allowing same-sex marriage outweighed the reasons given for preventing it.

I can’t marry my mother, father, or sister. When will that discrimination end? By the way no one should find that objectionable since marriage is apparently only about love. Who doesn’t love their family more than everyone else? I should be able to marry them all, otherwise it is discrimination.

The special case of marrying a family member has reasons against it that don't outweigh the reasons for it. At least not any of the reasons I've heard.

Why not do away with marriage altogether then?

Marriage is way to legally tie two unrelated people together as family. It benefits society by providing a structure to insulate government from having to care for the individuals. If one partner gets laid off or injured and can't work for a while, the other partner can pick up the slack instead of the government needing to provide aid. It also provides a way to streamline inheritance. You could get rid of marriage and replace it with some other legal contract that accomplishes the same goal, but that contract would essentially be marriage, so what's the point?

I can’t marry my mother, father, or sister. When will that discrimination end? By the way no one should find that objectionable since marriage is apparently only about love. Who doesn’t love their family more than everyone else? I should be able to marry them all, otherwise it is discrimination.

Getting back to this, you already have a family relationship with your mother, father, or sister. I don't see much added benefit to adding a second family relationship on top of it. Maybe you do see a benefit. I'll leave it to you to make your case for why it would be better for you to do this. When will that discrimination end? When you make your case well enough to convince the public or the courts to support your desire to marry someone that you are already closely related to.

 

[bandrews]

But there is a standard. Many gay people want to marry their chosen life-partners. The reasons given to prevent it didn't stand up to legal scrutiny. The reasons for allowing same-sex marriage outweighed the reasons given for preventing it.


The special case of marrying a family member has reasons against it that don't outweigh the reasons for it. At least not any of the reasons I've heard.

Marriage is way to legally tie two unrelated people together as family. It benefits society by providing a structure to insulate government from having to care for the individuals. If one partner gets laid off or injured and can't work for a while, the other partner can pick up the slack instead of the government needing to provide aid. It also provides a way to streamline inheritance. You could get rid of marriage and replace it with some other legal contract that accomplishes the same goal, but that contract would essentially be marriage, so what's the point?


Getting back to this, you already have a family relationship with your mother, father, or sister. I don't see much added benefit to adding a second family relationship on top of it. Maybe you do see a benefit. I'll leave it to you to make your case for why it would be better for you to do this. When will that discrimination end? When you make your case well enough to convince the public or the courts to support your desire to marry someone that you are already closely related to.

Don't worry - I'm a fully paid up member of the gay marriage club and understand it's virtues. I'm just waiting for him to tear his own argument apart.

 

[apolloa]

Wow. Where to start...

How about

Having a child then instantly changing its sex through treatment and operations. You said it. Not me.

It's always amusing hearing straight "normal" people telling LGBT people to "get over it". You have ZERO first hand experience of what you're talking about so how about you come back and comment after you do or you gain some kind of medical qualification that gives your posts some kind of traction. Until then you opinions are barely more than a rant.

Irs pretty obvious you did NOT read what I said and have decided to claim I said children were having sex operations.. go and re-read what I posted and ‘try’ to comprehend it, try reading the links I posted as it’ll help you... also stop using diversion tactics from what I said too.
Your second paragraph Is weird too as I’m not sure what I’m telling you to ‘get over’? You post all in makes no sense.
[doublepost=1562089803][/doublepost]

Praying to whom? "Your" god? Yea, he doesn't exist. Joke's on you, apparently.
[doublepost=1562081663][/doublepost]
You literally told someone to ask random women about how they feel when on the toilet. You straight-up actually did that. Have you lost your mind?

No I asked them to ask women how they would feel using the same toilets as men, stop twisting what I said. It’s not a shocking question.
[doublepost=1562089960][/doublepost]

You just said it, this pertains to the UK. Being gay in America is COMPLETELY different than being gay in the UK. It's normalized there and has been for a very long time.

Yes and that’s where you should concentrate your efforts first, not on other countries that still live in the 1920’s. The parade would make sense in the US.

 

[doelcm82]

Don't worry - I'm a fully paid up member of the gay marriage club and understand it's virtues. I'm just waiting for him to tear his own argument apart.

I figured you were. Your question just led into something I was about to write about how marriage (both same- and opposite-sex) is beneficial to society, while sibling and parent-child marriage doesn't really add much because the family relationship is already there.

 

[bandrews]

I figured you were. Your question just led into something I was about to write about how marriage (both same- and opposite-sex) is beneficial to society, while sibling and parent-child marriage doesn't really add much because the family relationship is already there.

One of the readings at our wedding was actually an extract from the supreme court ruling about how marriage was beneficial to society. It's dry and poetic at the same time.

 

[neliason]

Why not do away with marriage altogether then?

We can’t because children come from the union of a man and a woman. Marriage is the institution that protects children. Unfortunately in our time we have very little concern for them.

 

[bandrews]

Irs pretty obvious you did NOT read what I said and have decided to claim I said children were having sex operations.. go and re-read what I posted and ‘try’ to comprehend it, try reading the links I posted as it’ll help you... also stop using diversion tactics from what I said too.
Your second paragraph Is weird too as I’m not sure what I’m telling you to ‘get over’? You post all in makes no sense.

Lols. You are actually trying to say you didn't say what you said in your actual post? OK Trump....

I don’t like the fact in the UK a mother has done on multiple occasions, and can, have a child and then instantly after change their sex through treatment and operations

Again, not a diversion tactic. It's what you said. I mean you could just say "sorry, I was wrong" or "oops, didn't mean to type that, that isn't what I meant" then clarify instead of trying to make me out to be delusional or stupid.

And the article you linked to? The parents aren't trying to "change the sex" of their child. Read up on the difference between gender and sex. It's a thing.
It's quite obvious you're out of your depth in this discussion - and in that I am not questioning your intelligence, merely your knowledge.

And my second paragraph isn't weird. You just have not experience or qualifications to back up your hateful rants.
Like I said it's amusing how it's always the people in a privileged position who feel they can dictate what is/isn't right or what minority groups do/don't need. As long as you're fine, that's all that matters, right?
[doublepost=1562092428][/doublepost]

We can’t because children come from the union of a man and a woman. Marriage is the institution that protects children. Unfortunately in our time we have very little concern for them.

Come now, we've already established that a straight couple can get married without having kids. Straight people are rubbish at being married but also sometimes separation can actually be beneficial for the child where one parent may be abusive and also you don't need to be married to have kids.

So what else you got?

 

[doelcm82]

We can’t because children come from the union of a man and a woman. Marriage is the institution that protects children. Unfortunately in our time we have very little concern for them.

The four children I am raising were the union of a man and a woman who never met. They were never in the same room. Neither of them was even in the room when the "union" took place. They also were gestated in the wombs of two different women (neither of whom was their genetic mother).

Nonetheless, I have a lot of concern for them. They are mine. I have cared for them nearly every day of their lives.

 

[apolloa]

Lols. You are actually trying to say you didn't say what you said in your actual post? OK Trump....



Again, not a diversion tactic. It's what you said. I mean you could just say "sorry, I was wrong" or "oops, didn't mean to type that, that isn't what I meant" then clarify instead of trying to make me out to be delusional or stupid.

And the article you linked to? The parents aren't trying to "change the sex" of their child. Read up on the difference between gender and sex. It's a thing.
It's quite obvious you're out of your depth in this discussion - and in that I am not questioning your intelligence, merely your knowledge.

And my second paragraph isn't weird. You just have not experience or qualifications to back up your hateful rants.
Like I said it's amusing how it's always the people in a privileged position who feel they can dictate what is/isn't right or what minority groups do/don't need. As long as you're fine, that's all that matters, right?
[doublepost=1562092428][/doublepost]

You didn’t read my post properly, if you bothered to read it in context, instead of going of on one, you’d understand my comment about ‘the parents’ changing their sex, but no instead you misread and misunderstood my comment and then went off on one, why should I pay any more attention to you? It’s pointless.. I don’t need to apologise for your misunderstanding. I didn’t post anything hateful either yet another thing you’ve made up in your head.

Either that or you ARE deliberately using diversion tactics in your replies...

Also yes, I will tell anyone that a women who has a sex change operation, uses hormones to turn themselves into a a legally recognised man, then has a child is sick, utterly sick. It’s against nature in so many ways. Or a child born into a family where it’s mother is changed into a man and it’s father changed into a women, again sick, mental illness is what I call it, and it’s a far different thing to being gay. But I guess my gay friends who are against it must be wrong too according to you then?
You must also fully support gender neutrality being shoved down everyone’s throats too eh?

 

[hagar]

You didn’t read my post properly, if you bothered to read it in context, instead of going of on one, you’d understand my comment about ‘the parents’ changing their sex, but no instead you misread and misunderstood my comment and then went off on one, why should I pay any more attention to you? It’s pointless.. I don’t need to apologise for your misunderstanding. I didn’t post anything hateful either yet another thing you’ve made up in your head, unless you are saying that YOU are in full support of a legally recognised man that looks like a man thanks to hormone therapy having a child? Are you? I mean you seem to be implying that here...

You keep conflating things, claiming you have no issue with gay people, and that gay people don’t have issues either, and then you drag all kinds of weird stuff into the discussion. It’s seems you’re very conflicted about all of this.