Apple Marches in San Francisco Pride Parade

[hagar]

This pride bs is ridiculous. Human from more than 1000s of years are straight men and women. Only in the latest decades people started to think that they are not in the correct body. Get yourself together and behave as you were created... this is so wrong...

That’s exactly what gay people do. They didn’t choose to be gay. And why you would you think being gay is only a very recent phenomenon is beyond me. There’s plenty of proof it existed 1000s of years ago. Ignorant people like you are the reason pride month need to exist.

Yeap, I have to admit these days if someone told me they were gay i’d be like, woopdeedoo what do you want, a medal? I don’t see the need to celebrate your sexuality, it seems weird these days to do so.. but in my country gays seems to have just as many rights now as anyone else, so they don’t deserve special treatment as they are treated equally to everyone else as it should be.
Otherwise your being singled out as a group.. attempting to claim your somehow special and above everyone else?

Apple joining in to me is nothing more then a poor marketing ploy. What’s annoying is how they only do this for THIS event, to celebrate those fallen heroes they decorated a table on their canteen and tweeted a photo of it.....

Such bravery in this completely socially accepted lifestyle....

We now celebrate same sex pride as if it's completely rare and nobody knows what it is or that it's a thing needing to be made aware. I don't need to see a parade of a rainbow flag to accept the idea of two same sex people holding hands at my local mall. At what point is this celebration given the same treatment as biracial couples?

There are 71 countries on this planet where being gay is still illegal. 12 of them Even have the death penalty for it. And in the majority of (if not all) other countries, gay bashing and discrimination are still very real.

On the other hand, gay marriage is still only legal in 26 countries. Ever heard of solidarity?

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

even as I slept through history class given to me in a third language at an international school I remember reading about the protests that occurred and affected a lot of returning US soldiers.

I am not a US citizen or resident, but I have been absolutely fascinated by the recent Vietnam war documentary by Burns and Novick. One of the last episodes deals with veteran treatment upon their return.
In my opinion that documentary series should be required curriculum for everyone on the planet because it takes a very good 360-degree view of war, propaganda. It frames the Vietnam war in particular as a civil war within Vietnam as well as a political chess match of the cold war.

The parallels to todays situation in North Africa and the middle East are an interesting extrapolation.

That’s a totally unrelated topic to this one though. If you feel soldiers need more recognition than they get then do something about it. Comparing it to other movements and complaining achieves nothing. I can’t even see why it’s being compared in the first place?

 

[laz232]

That’s a totally unrelated topic to this one though. If you feel soldiers need more recognition than they get then do something about it. Comparing it to other movements and complaining achieves nothing. I can’t even see why it’s being compared in the first place?

I was not calling for any recognition of soldiers - Just drawing attention to in my opinion some good history in response to someone else's comment.

Back to the topic at hand I am not a big fan of what I consider opportunistic virtue signaling by large companies. 15 years ago almost all my closest friends were homosexual And none of us made a big deal about it. As an interesting sidenote most of the bisexuals ended falling back into normal* heterosexual relationships

There is absolutely discrimination going on against LGBTQ+, but not in San Francisco.

I'm also somewhat tired of hearing the word community overused and usurped. With such an enormous diversity in the type of people that are LGBTQ, the idea that they have some overriding community due to an aspect of their existence is IMO insulting, reductionist and attempts to steer the conversation into a intellectually vapid corner.


My aunt has been lesbian for five decades and she is not part of a "community."

*When I use the term normal I mean that exactly in the scientific sense as in conforming to the norm, Not in any value judgment. In fact this point is I think absolutely fundamental In the problem with the current debate on sexuality and gender: There is a conflation of normality in a statistical sense and describing moral goodness or acceptability.
If homosexuals make up 10% of a population then I don't think that it can be regarded as normal in a meaningful sense of the word, If transgender's make up is 0.3% of the population (And that appears to be much closer than the quoted one percent that I sometimes see in the media) Again I don't see how these numbers can be regarded as "normal" Within the human experience. That is completely different to whether I think that they deserve the same rights and respect that is afforded to all human beings.

Thus in summary I am somewhat divided as to whether I think that Apple's official participation is something to be lauded - The cynical part of me sees this as a calculated move. I absolutely think that everyone should be afforded the same basic human rights, but this is not a problem that needs fighting in San Francisco these are mainly problems that exist in rural areas in certain religious areas (And definitely not all religions are equal in that respect), And most definitely in countries outside of western Europe/coastal USA in general...

 

[apolloa]

Unfortunately attitudes do not change with legislation. Yes in the UK we now have equal rights but that doesn't stop same sex couples getting beaten up just for being a same sex couple.

You’ll get that no matter who you are, the media singled that story out yet you can be stabbed to death or beaten up these days for minuscule things. And if caught the guilty are rarely punished.

There are 71 countries on this planet where being gay is still illegal. 12 of them Even have the death penalty for it. And in the majority of (if not all) other countries, gay bashing and discrimination are still very real.

On the other hand, gay marriage is still only legal in 26 countries. Ever heard of solidarity?

And what do you think a Pride month of celebrations in the US is going to do about it then? It won’t change policies in other countries, especially Arabic ones!
But you can also go too far, I don’t like the fact in the UK a mother has done on multiple occasions, and can, have a child and then instantly after change their sex through treatment and operations, that should not be allowed.
Or this gender neutral BS where someone who did the above also decided they did not want them put down as a mother or father on the birth certificate which is a legal and rationale requirement, both of these are mental illness IMO and should be treated as such.

Now whilst this is thankfully in the minority, we are getting the gender neutral thing shoved down our throats, some places are even setting up gender neutral toilets in schools.
Born a male your male, born female your female, fact. I know gays who are opposed to this, one couple who adopted a son..

 

[hagar]

And what do you think a Pride month of celebrations in the US is going to do about it then? It won’t change policies in other countries, especially Arabic ones!

Gay bashing and discrimination do happen in the USA. And ever heard of raising awareness and setting the example? Why so negative about people going outside trying to change the world by drawing attention to real societal issues?

 

[apolloa]

Gay bashing and discrimination do happen in the USA. And ever heard of raising awareness and setting the example? Why so negative about people going outside trying to change the world by drawing attention to real societal issues?

Because it’s an impossible task and something that will never happen, you will never change Arabic states, some still stone people... they have bigger problems then not accepting gays so do not feel oppressed by them as your wasting your time..
Having a Pride month in one country will do nothing to change those in another country. I doubt some countries will even have heard about it.

Look at Dubai, a stinking rich mans home, every other person seems to drive a Ferrari, money invested in it by the West and most of it designed by the West, yet touch a mans hip you and can be arrested:

http://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/22/briton-jailed-for-three-months-in-dubai-for-touching-mans-hip

How do you ever think you’ll change a society like that to accept gays, mind you here in the West we’ve have attempts of sexual abuse claims because someone touched another on their shoulder or leg...

 

[hagar]

Because it’s an impossible task and something that will never happen, you will never change Arabic states, some still stone people... they have bigger problems then not accepting gays so do not feel oppressed by them as your wasting your time..
Having a Pride month in one country will do nothing to change those in another country. I doubt some countries will even have heard about it.

There are so many injustices in the world. If your outlook on life is to not even bother because nothing will ever change, that’s your right. But luckily others are more optimistic and do make a difference. Big or small. To each his own I guess.

 

[ob81]

You don’t HAVE to celebrate anything at all.
Not even your own birthday if you don’t want to.
However, it would be nice if you didn’t have any issue with other people celebrating that they are not afraid of being who they are, in spite of widespread discrimination.

Well damn, you missed my point entirely. I get it that you have to be on the defensive (I also can’t wait until you don’t have to be defensive as well).

 

[apolloa]

There are so many injustices in the world. If your outlook on life is to not even bother because nothing will ever change, that’s your right. But luckily others are more optimistic and do make a difference. Big or small. To each his own I guess.

No, my outlook is to start small and perhaps stop investing all your money into these countries with oppressed laws. The West loves investing its billions into these countries.
Gays are in the minority to women but look at how they are treated! You need to look at what else they oppress before thinking about your small movement.. because as I said they have far bigger issues.

 

[doelcm82]

You’ve completely missed the point dude! I don’t care. None of my business. Keep your personal life, personal.

Coming out is not about your personal life. It's about presenting yourself to some portion of the world. Before gay people adopted the phrase, it was (and still is) used by debutantes making their "first" appearance in fashionable society.

The phrase has evolved since then, since for gay people coming out is a process. First you come out to yourself, then to friends and or family, then perhaps to the the world (or as much of the world as is interested in you).

When you keep meeting new people, the act of coming out to friends and family becomes a repetitive chore, and you constantly have to decide whether someone is a friend or just an acquaintance, so some people decide to take it a step farther to make sure that even strangers know without having to be individually told.

Religious people often wear jewelry, clothing, or bumper stickers that advertise their personal religious views to complete strangers. It's also why many married people wear wedding rings. It's nobody's business if you're married, because that's part of your personal life, but it makes life go easier if you don't wait until you know someone well to announce your marital status.

Knowing an out person is gay doesn't tell you any more about the private sex life of the person than a wedding ring does. It just tells you that they are gay and they don't mind that you know.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

I was not calling for any recognition of soldiers - Just drawing attention to in my opinion some good history in response to someone else's comment.

Back to the topic at hand I am not a big fan of what I consider opportunistic virtue signaling by large companies. 15 years ago almost all my closest friends were homosexual And none of us made a big deal about it. As an interesting sidenote most of the bisexuals ended falling back into normal* heterosexual relationships

There is absolutely discrimination going on against LGBTQ+, but not in San Francisco.

I'm also somewhat tired of hearing the word community overused and usurped. With such an enormous diversity in the type of people that are LGBTQ, the idea that they have some overriding community due to an aspect of their existence is IMO insulting, reductionist and attempts to steer the conversation into a intellectually vapid corner.


My aunt has been lesbian for five decades and she is not part of a "community."

*When I use the term normal I mean that exactly in the scientific sense as in conforming to the norm, Not in any value judgment. In fact this point is I think absolutely fundamental In the problem with the current debate on sexuality and gender: There is a conflation of normality in a statistical sense and describing moral goodness or acceptability.
If homosexuals make up 10% of a population then I don't think that it can be regarded as normal in a meaningful sense of the word, If transgender's make up is 0.3% of the population (And that appears to be much closer than the quoted one percent that I sometimes see in the media) Again I don't see how these numbers can be regarded as "normal" Within the human experience. That is completely different to whether I think that they deserve the same rights and respect that is afforded to all human beings.

Thus in summary I am somewhat divided as to whether I think that Apple's official participation is something to be lauded - The cynical part of me sees this as a calculated move. I absolutely think that everyone should be afforded the same basic human rights, but this is not a problem that needs fighting in San Francisco these are mainly problems that exist in rural areas in certain religious areas (And definitely not all religions are equal in that respect), And most definitely in countries outside of western Europe/coastal USA in general...

Whether you agree with it or not, it does help normalise it and Apple do contribute a hell of a lot of money to causes linked with LGBT. I don’t think it’s a particularly big deal for anybody except those who oppose it.

 

[asiga]

When some people need to request pride for something it means that somewhere in their hearts they are ashamed of it, know that there's something not quite right in their lives, feel guilt for the path they chose, and are not happy with what they are doing. Of course, they want to believe the contrary, but they are lying themselves, and when you lie yourself, the subconscious tends to arise, like in this case. If they weren't lying themselves, they wouldn't shout for requesting pride.

 

[hagar]

When some people need to request pride for something it means that somewhere in their hearts they are ashamed of it, know that there's something not quite right in their lives, feel guilt for the path they chose, and are not happy with what they are doing. Of course, they want to believe the contrary, but they are lying themselves, and when you lie yourself, the subconscious tends to arise, like in this case. If they weren't lying themselves, they wouldn't shout for requesting pride.

Congratulations on posting one of the most ignorant and hate spewing posts in this thread. You’re a very sad person.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

When some people need to request pride for something it means that somewhere in their hearts they are ashamed of it, know that there's something not quite right in their lives, feel guilt for the path they chose, and are not happy with what they are doing. Of course, they want to believe the contrary, but they are lying themselves, and when you lie yourself, the subconscious tends to arise, like in this case. If they weren't lying themselves, they wouldn't shout for requesting pride.

That sounds about as misinformed as they come. I find most of the criticism for homosexuality and pride are from people not comfortable in their own lives. Were you born straight or did you make the conscious decision to fancy those of the opposite sex btw?

 

[asiga]

Congratulations on posting one of the most ignorant and hate spewing posts in this thread. You’re a very sad person.

Did I say something wrong or hateful? Do you request pride when your soccer team wins a championship? Do you request pride when you graduate at your University? Do you request pride when your child starts walking?

If you requested pride in any joyful event, what would be the reason for that?
[doublepost=1562056226][/doublepost]

That sounds about as misinformed as they come. I find most of the criticism for homosexuality and pride are from people not comfortable in their own lives. Were you born straight or did you make the conscious decision to fancy those of the opposite sex btw?

They use to claim sex is a choice. Don't you agree?

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Did I say something wrong or hateful? Do you request pride when your soccer team wins a championship? Do you request pride when you graduate at your University? Do you request pride when your child starts walking?

If you requested pride in any joyful event, what would be the reason for that?
[doublepost=1562056226][/doublepost]
They use to claim sex is a choice. Don't you agree?

I suggest you do some research around what the Pride movement stands for and why it was formed as you clearly have a very skewed perception of it. The examples you’ve given are comical as show a complete lack of understanding of the discriminatory reasons why Pride exists.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

They use to claim sex is a choice. Don't you agree?

You can choose to have sex but you can’t choose sexual orientation which is a very different thing. I’m embarrassed for you that someone on the Internet has to explain that to you.

 

[Wando64]

Well damn, you missed my point entirely. I get it that you have to be on the defensive (I also can’t wait until you don’t have to be defensive as well).

I have just re-read your post and, yes, I did miss your point.
I apologise for that, but this thread has done my head in and I think I was in battle mode.

 

[bandrews]

You’ll get that no matter who you are, the media singled that story out yet you can be stabbed to death or beaten up these days for minuscule things. And if caught the guilty are rarely punished.



And what do you think a Pride month of celebrations in the US is going to do about it then? It won’t change policies in other countries, especially Arabic ones!
But you can also go too far, I don’t like the fact in the UK a mother has done on multiple occasions, and can, have a child and then instantly after change their sex through treatment and operations, that should not be allowed.
Or this gender neutral BS where someone who did the above also decided they did not want them put down as a mother or father on the birth certificate which is a legal and rationale requirement, both of these are mental illness IMO and should be treated as such.

Now whilst this is thankfully in the minority, we are getting the gender neutral thing shoved down our throats, some places are even setting up gender neutral toilets in schools.
Born a male your male, born female your female, fact. I know gays who are opposed to this, one couple who adopted a son..

Well if you're happy that people get beaten up/killed because of it, fine. Some people would like things to change.

Brunei recently called off the introduction of stoning for homosexuality after widespread global outrage. So there's that....

Also, source for woman forcing operations on newborn babies.

 

[asiga]

[...] as show a complete lack of understanding of the discriminatory reasons why Pride exists.

Since when do people who suffered discrimination require to ask for pride? People with physical handicaps were discriminated in the past, yet never had to ask for pride, and now the Paralimpycs is a reality which never needed to ask for pride, even if they suffered discrimination in the past. Mastering a sport while having a physical handicap is worthy of pride in itself, no need to ask for it. The same applies to race discrimination: Have you ever seen a discriminated race asking for pride? They ask for rights, not for pride. As hard as I try, I cannot find any group that suffered or suffers discrimination and needs to ask for pride.
[doublepost=1562061074][/doublepost]

You can choose to have sex but you can’t choose sexual orientation which is a very different thing. I’m embarrassed for you that someone on the Internet has to explain that to you.

Let me copy this in the clipboard for the next time somebody says the contrary.

 

[hagar]

Since when do people who suffered discrimination require to ask for pride? People with physical handicaps were discriminated in the past, yet never had to ask for pride, and now the Paralimpycs is a reality which never needed to ask for pride, even if they suffered discrimination in the past. Mastering a sport while having a physical handicap is worthy of pride in itself, no need to ask for it. The same applies to race discrimination: Have you ever seen a discriminated race asking for pride? They ask for rights, not for pride. As hard as I try, I cannot find any group that suffered or suffers discrimination and needs to ask for pride.

Are you doing this on purpose to mock or upset people? You can’t be that naive can you?
But ok, here I go: obviously gay pride is about equal rights. But also about self-acceptance, anti-discrimination, community building, inclusion and so much more. The overarching word is pride, because it’s the opposite of the social stigma and shame gay people have to endure. Maybe you would be more comfortable if there were gay protests instead of celebrations, but actually that’s how they started out. As protests against police brutality and the raiding of gay bars. If you’re so interested in the topic, you can read up on the history of the gay movement. But don’t trip over the word pride, that’s just embarrassing.

 

[apolloa]

Well if you're happy that people get beaten up/killed because of it, fine. Some people would like things to change.

Brunei recently called off the introduction of stoning for homosexuality after widespread global outrage. So there's that....

Also, source for woman forcing operations on newborn babies.

Firstly what the hell are you on about? Women forcing operations on newborn babies??? Where do I say that then??? I was referring to the parents changing their sex like this sick couple:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/840528/Gender-fluid-family-mum-dad-neutral-Nikki-Louise-Braven-Star-Cloud?spot_im_scroll_to_comments=true

Or how about a man who gave birth to a child:

http//www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/9077506/Sex-change-British-man-gives-birth-to-son.html

Or we also have this one who gave birth to one child as a women, then a second one as a man:

http://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/transgender-man-gives-birth-baby-first-child-woman-kaci-sullivan-wisconsin-a8107481.html%3famp

This is sick and wrong, the poor child will be confused for their entire life, I draw the line at this as I do parents encouraging under 18’s to change sex, you want to do it do it after your 18 and YOU pay for it, or the NHS which currently does, if they won’t treat it as mental illness which it is.
It is not natural or nature in any way shape or form, if men were meant to give birth we would. Religion doesn’t even come into it.

Secondly you are totally missing the point, you will wake up and realise you can’t change the world one day with a month of celebrating your sexuality as I pointed out, these countries have far bigger issues and changing their attitudes or laws towards gay people is probably not even on their list let alone near the top!

Thirdly stop putting opinions in my comments thanks, I not once said ‘I’m happy gays are being beaten up’... get of your high horse mate and stop presuming everyone hates you or gay people... because claiming and thinking things like that is what makes them have no sympathy or time for you, why should they?

 

[Tiger8]

This pride bs is ridiculous. Human from more than 1000s of years are straight men and women. Only in the latest decades people started to think that they are not in the correct body. Get yourself together and behave as you were created... this is so wrong...

You should put you money where your mouth is and never use a smartphone, or a tablet, or even a windows pc.

The 'computer' was invented by a gay man!!! He also was key in ending world war 2 and saved millions of lives, but yea be careful! It's a propaganda meant to convert good straight people gay.

/s

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Since when do people who suffered discrimination require to ask for pride? People with physical handicaps were discriminated in the past, yet never had to ask for pride, and now the Paralimpycs is a reality which never needed to ask for pride, even if they suffered discrimination in the past. Mastering a sport while having a physical handicap is worthy of pride in itself, no need to ask for it. The same applies to race discrimination: Have you ever seen a discriminated race asking for pride? They ask for rights, not for pride. As hard as I try, I cannot find any group that suffered or suffers discrimination and needs to ask for pride.

I think you’re viewing this as though every group of people in society needs to behave exactly the same. You’ve compared Pride to groups that all appear in the public eye through protesting or sporting events and this seems contradictory.

I don’t think anybody is asking for Pride. It’s more a demonstration that they don’t need approval and are happy with their sexuality despite negative social pressures.

Let me copy this in the clipboard for the next time somebody says the contrary.

You’ve lost me here. You want to use my quote for the next time someone says they can alter their genetics? You have my permission there.

 

[0989382]

And they didn’t bring out the old rainbow colored Apple logo for this? Opportunity missed!

Definitely not! That's not what the striped coloured Apple logo stood for.
[doublepost=1562067064][/doublepost]I'm not sure that companies really need to make a big statement. In this day and age, in the UK most people are completely fine with gay people. Anybody who isn't has the right to feel that way, but they're obligated by law, employment policies etc to treat everybody with respect and will be penalised if they don't give people the respect they deserve on any grounds.

In my life so far, nobody seems to have a problem with gay people. Some are a little uncomfortable as they've never been around many gay people or known many. What people do have an issue with, are the drama queens who rub it in your face. Thankfully, most gay people I know just want to live a normal life, be themselves and don't care to make a big point about it.

Everybody should have pride about who they are, what they do etc, doesn't always mean a big parade is needed, but that's just my opinion. Each to their own.