Apple on iPhone Battery Locking Issue: We Want to Make Sure Battery Replacement is Done Properly

[VulchR]

So what’s the problem exactly? Apple didn’t prevent you from replacing the battery and the phone worked just fine afterwards.

Any iPhone that shows the warning message will be devalued on the second-hand market even if a user-replaced battery comes from a good supplier (like iFixit).
[doublepost=1565812731][/doublepost]

As it should. As a consumer I would like to know whether a component of what I am buying has been serviced or replaced and who did the work. I'm willing to pay more for a used iPhone where the work was performed by a certified technician and I know that a genuine part was used.

No different than buying a car. I want to know if the transmission is replaced and if it was done by a certified mechanic at the dealer or by someone in their garage following a youtube tutorial.

I understand that's your preference, but I am speaking as a potential seller. I would never try to rip somebody off, but the problem with Apple's warning message is that it does not actually indicate the quality of the battery, or the quality of the labour that went in to replacing the battery. It just creates the impression of something dodgy.

 

[Mr. Heckles]

Any iPhone that shows the warning message will be devalued on the second-hand market even if a user-replaced battery comes from a good supplier (like iFixit).

and your point? How does a buyer know the seller did it correctly when buying from a 3rd party place? Nope. As a buyer, I would want to know it's all Apple.

 

[mattster16]

But at the end of the day, the battery's still using lithium-ion battery cells. Is there some breakthrough in cells for lithium-ion batteries of which I'm not aware?

You keep talking about battery chemistry as if the phone itself is directly measuring battery health based on direct current and voltage. Could it be that the phone is relying on the hardware electronics on the battery itself for some or all of the necessary data needed to measure battery health? Hint: It does. Could it be that a third party battery isn't a known entity and that Apple isn't comfortable relying on that data supplied by the battery to report health data? Could the scenario arise where a third party manufacturer would FALSIFY that data in order to make a battery that isn't necessarily healthy or has a lower than OEM capacity APPEAR healthy? Could that negatively reflect on the phone itself to the uninformed consumer and therefore hurt Apple's image in that consumer's mind?

 

[MacClueless]

I'm with Apple on this... keep phone safe and secure. And as important as this is today, it will be more so in the future as our phone is now the key to our home, our drivers license, our credit card, and more.

If you can't afford the total cost of ownership of something, which includes maintenance and repairs, then you can't afford it. If you buy a Porsche and you can't afford the special tires you probably shouldn't have a Porsche. If you buy an iPhone and can't afford a secure battery replacement, then you weaken the entire eco-system for the rest of us. Every attack vector that can be reduced helps.

 

[JosephAW]

If people keep bellyaching Apple will solve the problem by removing the screws and permanently gluing all devices shut.

 

[MacClueless]

So? Swapping a genuine OEM transmission from one BMW to another identical BMW not only presents a warning, but the vehicle won’t even drive.

Things like that are likely to change in the future too, especially with self driving vehicles.

 

[mattster16]

I understand that's your preference, but I am speaking as a potential seller. I would never try to rip somebody off, but the problem with Apple's warning message is that it does not actually indicate the quality of the battery, or the quality of the labour that went in to replacing the battery. It just creates the impression of something dodgy.

As a buyer I have the choice between a known entity (OEM battery installed by a certified technician) or an unknown entity (any battery, could be OEM maybe, installed by someone who does or doesn't know what they are doing and/or take proper care with their work). I'll take the known entity any day when I'm already making a purchase as risky as a used phone.

 

[cube]

How is it reasonable to lock out a genuine battery?

 

[realtuner]

Actually, you asked a question regarding "build quality" which, at least in my opinion, has nothing to do with battery chemistry, which is what I've been talking about this whole time.

Of course build quality varies between manufacturers because different manufacturers may use different processes. But at the end of the day, the battery's still using lithium-ion battery cells. Is there some breakthrough in cells for lithium-ion batteries of which I'm not aware?

You're still moving the goalposts.

Your VERY FIRST post in this thread made this statement:

"Quality" is near-nonexistent. They're all lithium-ion batteries, and there's only so much you can do.

This statement is patently false. Since then you've been going on about chemistry, build quality, manufacturing and whatever else you can come up with but your basic premise is still wrong.

I'm still trying to figure out why you're so hung-up on batteries or pretending that Apple batteries are no better than other manufacturers.
[doublepost=1565813375][/doublepost]

How is it reasonable to lock out a genuine battery?

They're not locking it out. Your phone still works. You just don't get battery statistics and a warning the battery has been changed.

That genuine battery could have been from a stolen iPhone. In fact, I propose that Apple adds this functionality.

When a battery is installed into an iPhone the serial number of the iPhone is written to the battery. When that battery ends up in another iPhone, the iPhone queries that serial number against a database of stolen devices. If it finds a match it will also display a warning that the battery in your iPhone is stolen.

I wonder what repair shops would think of this?
[doublepost=1565813435][/doublepost]

Things like that are likely to change in the future too, especially with self driving vehicles.

What do self-driving vehicles have to do with manufacturers preventing people from using parts from stolen cars to fix other cars?

 

[jonblatho]

Could it be that the phone is relying on the hardware electronics on the battery itself for some or all of the necessary data needed to measure battery health?

Once again, Apple's batteries aren't special. All batteries report the data used by Battery Health. I suppose it's possible to falsify the information returned, but do you have any source that that's ever happened? Do you have a source that Apple hasn't done that? Sounds mighty conspiratorial.

In fact, one can argue that Apple's Battery Health is somewhat falsified because it uses either the mean or median of recent measurements, as instantaneously reported battery health information will fluctuate based on environmental conditions. While that's understandable — it’d be confusing if the Battery Health percentage fluctuated as dramatically as it does when measured instantaneously — it inherently introduces a time lag to the "real" battery health.

I'm still trying to figure out why you're so hung-up on batteries or pretending that Apple batteries are no better than other manufacturers.

Because from a chemical perspective they're not. Apologies that my first statement was unclear.

 

[MacClueless]

This is such nonsense and so dissapointing. Like battery replacement is hard? Give it another year or two and we won't be able to replace broken screens either. I guess they've already sort of done it by disableing True Tone regardless.

Starting with Touch ID on the 5S... getting worse and worse.

Let's hope that's the case. Apple repairs should by done by Apple. For those who disagree, vote with your wallet and choose a company more aligned with what you believe is right.
[doublepost=1565813604][/doublepost]

As opposed to the ones they use which get recalled.

Which is GREAT then you have someone deep pocketed to replace them or to sue!

 

[jonblatho]

Let's hope that's the case. Apple repairs should by done by Apple. For those who disagree, vote with your wallet and choose a company more aligned with what you believe is right.

Ah, yes, Apple can do no wrong and if you enjoy their products but disagree with some of their actions as a company, go buy a Samsung or Pixel phone.

 

[MacClueless]

I suppose it's possible to falsify the information returned, but do you have any source that that's ever happened?

You don't need to wait for rain to buy an umbrella. They're being proactive and taking gradual steps to lock down every hardware and software vulnerability they can find. Kudos to Apple.

 

[Defthand]

It's about killing the theft of iPhones by making the parts of those iPhones useless for resale.

If that's their reason, why don't they say so? Whose phones are they trying to deter the theft of? Their supply chain? Customers? If iPhone thefts were pandemic, it would make headlines. I doubt the numbers are enough to warrant a ecosystem safeguard.

Of course, Apple could discourage gray market shenanigans by making OEM parts affordable and easily attainable. Instead, their protections will encourage more workarounds.

 

[jonblatho]

You don't need to wait for rain to buy an umbrella. They're being proactive and taking gradual steps to lock down every hardware and software vulnerability they can find. Kudos to Apple.

Ah, yes, the major vulnerability that is battery health information.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

I see a class action lawsuit in the making here. It seems like Apple is using a scare tactic to reduce competition.

A replacement battery doesn't automatically mean the phone needs 'service'.

Unless there is an obvious and verifiable service issue, battery status should indicate nothing more than the battery may not be an Apple factory replacement.

That’s what I thought “Service” indicates. That either it’s not a factory replacement OR someone who’s in business to replace iPhone batteries don’t think it’s important to pay Apple to be certified to do so.

Folks who want cheap batteries can still get them AND they will work exactly the same way as cheap batteries have always worked. There’s just this ONE data point on ONE screen that won’t update. I guess another good thing is that if you want to buy a used iPhone and you want one that has only been touched by someone that’s certified (and not the seller’s younger brother that think static pads are for “suckers”), you can know that before buying.

 

[jonblatho]

Of course, Apple could discourage gray market shenanigans by making OEM parts affordable and easily attainable.

Well, as I said earlier, we must work tirelessly to protect Mother Apple's craven push for Services revenue.

 

[farmboy]

You're asking a non legit question. Apple is trying to make more money. That's why this issue exists.

...and you're trying to pay less money. THAT'S why this "issue" exists.

 

[cube]

They're not locking it out. Your phone still works. You just don't get battery statistics and a warning the battery has been changed.

That genuine battery could have been from a stolen iPhone. In fact, I propose that Apple adds this functionality.

When a battery is installed into an iPhone the serial number of the iPhone is written to the battery. When that battery ends up in another iPhone, the iPhone queries that serial number against a database of stolen devices. If it finds a match it will also display a warning that the battery in your iPhone is stolen.

I wonder what repair shops would think of this?

If it detects that the battery is stolen, it is fine to display a warning, but not if it is an otherwise genuine battery.

 

[bryan.cfii]

So instead of putting time and effort into better software and sensor monitoring of battery charging and discharging behavior such as current and temperature changes, we get the big bother deal where they authorize the component change when the iphone phones home? I know they want to control the experience, but apples been getting weirder and weirder and it always benefits them monetarily. I'm very disappointed in this.

 

[Scream And Fly]

Come on everybody, Apple is counting on you all to have the correct attitude about this. This is a feature for you. It’s another awesome feature that has only your best interests (and your money) in mind. How dare you ordinary, non-Apple Genius worms think you have the necessary qualifications to change a battery! You should know better.

The Apple Apologist Squad will be working overtime to knock you nonbelievers back into line. And remember, when in doubt, purchase a new iPhone. That’s what Apple recommends. For your own good. For their own good. Just stop thinking and do and believe as they say.

 

[MauiPa]

Save $15 and get a crappy battery, sounds like a winner to me, not to mention jeopardizing the water resistance, and potentially blowing up! $69 is not too much for a battery, cheaper would be better of course, but its not $129, so pretty cheap.

BTW: fixit was b&*T(Ting and moaning about putting in a used battery and what, they were upset?


Also: https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Samsung+Galaxy+S10+Battery+Replacement/121826. According to iFixit, changing the battery on the Samsung Galaxy S10, is moderated difficulty, and takes 1- 2 hours , and you know, its a battery, somewhat dangerous. so lets see, getting calculator out, battery cost $30, 2 hours labor at $100/hr. woah! that much. So, is $69 really a lot of money? That is like $30 for certified labor. Doesn't sound like a biggie

 

[mattster16]

Once again, Apple's batteries aren't special. All batteries report the data used by Battery Health. I suppose it's possible to falsify the information returned, but do you have any source that that's ever happened? Do you have a source that Apple hasn't done that? Sounds mighty conspiratorial.

It doesn't matter if someone has falsified the information yet or not. Some manufacturer in some highly unregulated country selling on an unregulated market might have the incentive to do so and Apple is maybe taking a proactive step to prevent that from happening.

Now you're asking me to prove a negative!?

 

[fingerpuppet]

Has anyone checked to see if iMazing can report on battery health in these cases? I doubt if it can, but just wondering ...

 

[jonblatho]

Come on everybody, Apple is counting on you all to have the correct attitude about this. This is a feature for you. It’s another awesome feature that has only your best interests (and your money) in mind. How dare you ordinary, non-Apple Genius worms think you have the necessary qualifications to change a battery! You should know better.

The Apple Apologist Squad will be working overtime to knock you nonbelievers back into line. And remember, when in doubt, purchase a new iPhone. That’s what Apple recommends. For your own good. For their own good. Just stop thinking and do and believe as they say.

Folks, if you have doubts, just write the following sentence on a piece of paper 100 times until said doubts vanish:

Apple has my best interests, not their revenues, in mind.
Apple has my best interests, not their revenues, in mind.
Apple has my best interests, not their revenues, in mind.
Apple has my best interests, not their revenues, in mind.
Apple has my best inter​