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Apple Poaching Gaming PR Execs from Activision and Nintendo

Also...

I like the idea of being able to take 3D pictures with the Nintendo 3DS, but that's not worth $250 to me... not at such low resolutions and not when I use my iPhone 4 so much. I like Nintendo, but I don't think they're making good decisions to protect their future. Why don't they work more with independent developers? Why didn't they build their own app store for independent developers? Why not team up with Apple, like Sony sorta is doing with Android?

Nintendo did really well during the last few years. But now, Apple is becoming a threat. If you acknowledge the threat to Nintendo or not, that's irrelevant. Why? It's because Nintendo acknowledges the threat.

http://www.businessinsider.com/nintendo-execs-admit-apple-is-the-enemy-of-the-future-2010-5
 
Forget about the iPhone 4..
Who cares about the 3DS.
PSP is garbage..


Dear Apple,
Please buy out Sega and begin a mass production of a Sega Dreamcast Handheld.. FTW!!
 
Until Apple give us some physical controls (buttons, Joysticks etc) for use in games that need it, this is simply never ever going to work.

It's just a fundamental need, and no amount of screen res, CPU/GPU power, memory or anything else is going to fix this.

It's like taking the steering wheel and foot pedals out of a sports car and fitting in a touch screen, with no feedback and a smooth surface.

They car will be hopeless, and never be any good, no matter how great the engine, body or anything else.

Humans need physical controls, and why on earth do you want your hands/fingers to be overlapping the screen you are looking at (the display)

For same game, yes, a touch screen is great and really suits the style of game, for many other types of games, it's totally hopeless and will always be hopeless.

No amount of arguing is going to change this fundamental issue.
 
Piggie said:
No amount of arguing is going to change this fundamental issue.
Click to expand...

One of the things I liked about the Nintendo 3DS was the thumbstick.

A lack of a physical keyboard, and a better controller for games, can be an issue with the iPhone. It certainly was a design problem with BOT. I'm designing a game specifically with touch controls in mind. The original design had a flaw. A lot of the action would be covered by the player's hand.

Yet, I don't think it's impossible to create great gaming experiences with just a touch screen. Angry Birds, Fruit Ninja and Cut the Rope are excellent examples of touch-based gaming. I don't think that could be easily duplicated with a controller.

What should Apple do about it?

...a slide-out controller?
...an Apple accessory?

Doesn't Steve Jobs hate buttons? I thought I read that somewhere.
 
Photics said:
Also...

I like the idea of being able to take 3D pictures with the Nintendo 3DS, but that's not worth $250 to me... not at such low resolutions and not when I use my iPhone 4 so much. I like Nintendo, but I don't think they're making good decisions to protect their future. Why don't they work more with independent developers? Why didn't they build their own app store for independent developers? Why not team up with Apple, like Sony sorta is doing with Android?

Nintendo did really well during the last few years. But now, Apple is becoming a threat. If you acknowledge the threat to Nintendo or not, that's irrelevant. Why? It's because Nintendo acknowledges the threat.

http://www.businessinsider.com/nintendo-execs-admit-apple-is-the-enemy-of-the-future-2010-5
Click to expand...

Your overall point being because Apple poses and threat to Nintendo, which Nintendo recognises, Nintendo are doomed to go out of business?
 
bobbleheadbob said:
My kids would love that, too. Only problem would be trying to get my iPhone or iPad away from them! ;)
Click to expand...

And would you pay $40 for it? I'm guessing you would.

Nintendo has really valuable IP that it would be wonderful to see on the iOS platform.
 
bugfaceuk said:
Your overall point being because Apple poses and threat to Nintendo, which Nintendo recognises, Nintendo are doomed to go out of business?
Click to expand...

That's not what he's saying. The premise being presented is adapt/evolve or face the consequences of a rapid moving technological world. Doesn't mean the company goes out of business.
 
Photics said:
One of the things I liked about the Nintendo 3DS was the thumbstick.

A lack of a physical keyboard, and a better controller for games, can be an issue with the iPhone. It certainly was a design problem with BOT. I'm designing a game specifically with touch controls in mind. The original design had a flaw. A lot of the action would be covered by the player's hand.

Yet, I don't think it's impossible to create great gaming experiences with just a touch screen. Angry Birds, Fruit Ninja and Cut the Rope are excellent examples of touch-based gaming. I don't think that could be easily duplicated with a controller.

What should Apple do about it?

...a slide-out controller?
...an Apple accessory?

Doesn't Steve Jobs hate buttons? I thought I read that somewhere.
Click to expand...


Oh yes, believe me, I agree fully with what you say, SOME games are superb with on screen touch controls. Some games are only really practical with on screen touch controls.

Without any question, there is a large area of entertainment software and simple utilities that work excellently be being able to press a button, pull something on screen, push and twist things on screen.
Indeed, this method of control works superb for certain styles of software.

However, there are also a whole range of applications and games that are just not realistically possible with touch screen commands.

Naturally any applications that are very complex and require many many layers of multiple menu's and commands to do what they do. Some role playing games which have many key commands you need to access fast to call upon certain actions/commands (some of these are not even really possible on a console controller and need a keyboard)

Plus I suppose most obviously First Person Perspective games, when you need to move in all 3 dimensions, jumping, shooting, spinning rout with split second timing and precision.

Unless you wish to dumb down games (which I don't think many really want) there needs to be some option.

For small devices, Touch, Phone, I don't see Apple doing much as there are naturally for simple/quick games on the move. You are not really going to settle down for a few hour gaming session on your phone much of the time.

Slide out keyboard I can't see happen.

To be honest, the most workable idea would be an Optional official bluetooth Apple games controller, Like a PS3, or 360 controller, with all the normal buttons and joysticks that a dev can choose to support if they want.

Then as a user, you can select between on-screen controls or the optional controller if you have one.

That's the easiest and most practical answer, and would hurt no-one and could only be a positive.

Unfortunately, we have a problem. Steve Jobs, who appears to have personal mental issues, and only wishes to pursue one path and feels offering things like such a device/option would not be a POSITIVE thing for customers, but he appears to view things like that as a NEGATIVE thing, feeling that it's admitting failure of a touch screen to be the answer to everything.

It's like a stylus. For some tasks a fine tipped stylus (like a fine tipped brush when painting) is better than a thick brush (a finger) and yet he comes out with silly childish comments like "Stylus = Fail" rather than speaking like an adult and accepting that for some things, such a option would be better.

I guess we will see what happens.

Perhaps there is more possibility in time a Bluetooth joystick controller option will be more lightly on future Android/Honeycomb tablets for gaming.
 
When discussing Nintendo, you guys aren't taking into account DSiWare and soon 3DSWare. They're a means of digitally distributing little games, much like those of iOS, for cheaper prices (pretty much maxing out at $10).

Although they obviously still rely on the sale of physical games, Nintendo is beginning to adapt to this cheaper, digital means of sale.
 
mtkoren said:
Poaching suggests illegal, secret, stealing or other misadventure that is underhanded and sneaky.

From what I've read so far, and I'd be glad for someone to show me what I've missed, Apple had the job positions already advertised and for all we know these individuals, realizing their companies were sliding, applied to - and were received by - apple which replied with open arms. Does anyone have evidence to the contrary? Would that be poaching? Is this forum, like some others, doing headline greed?
Click to expand...

There was a bit of trouble a while ago because some major companies (I think Apple, Google, and someone else) apparently had a "no poaching" agreement, agreeing that they wouldn't make job offers to people employed by the other company. That is considered bad, because it means someone say employed by Google for $100,000 a year can't get a job offer from Apple for $110,000 a year, so salaries are kept down. While companies may not like poaching, employees like it.

And what makes you say "these individuals, realizing their companies were sliding..." ? The company I work for is doing very well, but if someone else offered me a much higher salary, or better career opportunities, or much better working conditions, or a much more interesting job, why wouldn't I consider that?
 
Why are people being defensive and bringing up a few examples like final fantasy 3? These games are not the norm. Look at the top downloads list in the app store to get a good idea of what most games are.

iOS games are fine, but the majority of them really are time wasters. The only real advantage most iOS games have is that they are much cheaper than on portable systems or console games.

For most popular games though the experience isn't nearly good enough. The most popular games on consoles are FPS, Racing games, and Sports. Without physical buttons iOS can't compete with the same genres of games. iOS is better at puzzle games where touching is preferable to moving a mouse/controller, and can be fine on RPG games especially if they are turn based.

Real racing can be fun, but enthusiasts buy steering wheels to play gran turismo and forza. It's just not the same.
 
bugfaceuk said:
Your overall point being because Apple poses and threat to Nintendo, which Nintendo recognises, Nintendo are doomed to go out of business?
Click to expand...

Do you think the market can sustain four gaming companies?

Sony, Nintendo, Microsoft and Apple? What if Google gets into the mix too? (They fumbled with Google TV, but it could be adapted and done properly.)

I think Nintendo represents the "Casual" side of gaming, both with the DS line and the Wii. Nintendo dominated portables for many years. Since the launch of the original Gameboy, no one could really challenge Nintendo's dominance.

But now, there are two new ways to enjoy portable gaming... Android and iOS.

Just as Radio is still around after Television, it's possible that Nintendo can survive Apple's entry into gaming. Yet, will Nintendo be the dominate player? In what scenario do they stay #1? If iOS is real competition in portable gaming (DS line) and in home gaming (Wii) is threatened by Apple TV / iPad, I think that looks like there are some real challenges ahead for Nintendo.

The 3DS is a surprise to me, as it's fairly expensive for a Nintendo portable. Why spend $250 on a 3DS when an iPod Touch starts at $229? Sure... it depends on your preferences, but the iPod Touch / iPhone is a successful alternative. This isn't the same battle the Gameboy faced against the Sega's Nomad / Game Gear, the Turbo Express Portable or Atari Lynx. In addition to hardware, the software can be cheaper on iOS / Android too.

Game ratings on iOS start at 4 and up.
Games for the 3DS start at 7 and up. It's harder to market a product when there are warnings about vision.

Viewing of 3D images by children 6 and under may cause vision damage.
Click to expand...

http://www.nintendo.com/consumer/systems/3ds/en_na/health_safety.jsp

What happens this Christmas if Apple decides to launch an Apple TV that plays games... for $99? In these tough economic times, I think that's a serious threat to Nintendo.

So, Nintendo's portable line is under attack... both from Sony/Android and now Apple. Nintendo's console market is also under attack, as the Wii appears to be losing steam. If Apple enters the market with a $100 system, that's serious competition.

Here's a story... I was asked to make a recommendation for a gift. This was a nice gift, something around $250. At first I looked at the Nintendo 3DS. I thought it would be a cool gift because it was new. Yet, there was a regional lockout issue and I'm not sure it's something that's really good for a kid. At least with an iPod Touch, there's more to do with it than just games. Sure... the Nintendo 3DS does more than just games, but I think that the iPod Touch is a much better overall device... FaceTime, web browsing, iOS development, books, utilities, entertainment. It says, "Hey, I want you to have fun... but I also want you to learn something and be productive."

I recommended the iPod Touch. But surprisingly, this was not the gift that was purchased. Instead, an Android tablet was purchased as the gift. Heh... Android... that would not have been my choice.

Yet, that's the changing market. With iOS and Android, there's a lot more competition in portable devices... and I think that will eventually spill into the livingroom with game consoles. It's new technology that threatens Nintendo.

I think the strength of Nintendo is their software line... Mario, Zelda and popular games like that. If Nintendo struggles with hardware, they could eventually become software exclusive. That doomsday scenario has been uttered for many years — as Sony's entry into the market caused a lot of trouble for Nintendo. The company managed to turn things around with the DS and the Wii. Can Nintendo do it again when Apple is offering cheaper hardware, cheaper software?

One could argue about iOS games being mostly casual... and that the lack of a controller causes problems... but Apple can fix that problem if they so choose. With Game Center, and news like the one that started this thread, it shows that Apple is getting serious about gaming.

That's obviously big trouble for Nintendo.
 
Photics said:
Do you think the market can sustain four gaming companies?

Sony, Nintendo, Microsoft and Apple? What if Google gets into the mix too? (They fumbled with Google TV, but it could be adapted and done properly.)

I think Nintendo represents the "Casual" side of gaming, both with the DS line and the Wii. Nintendo dominated portables for many years. Since the launch of the original Gameboy, no one could really challenge Nintendo's dominance.

But now, there are two new ways to enjoy portable gaming... Android and iOS.

Just as Radio is still around after Television, it's possible that Nintendo can survive Apple's entry into gaming. Yet, will Nintendo be the dominate player? In what scenario do they stay #1? If iOS is real competition in portable gaming (DS line) and in home gaming (Wii) is threatened by Apple TV / iPad, I think that looks like there are some real challenges ahead for Nintendo.

The 3DS is a surprise to me, as it's fairly expensive for a Nintendo portable. Why spend $250 on a 3DS when an iPod Touch starts at $229? Sure... it depends on your preferences, but the iPod Touch / iPhone is a successful alternative. This isn't the same battle the Gameboy faced against the Sega's Nomad / Game Gear, the Turbo Express Portable or Atari Lynx. In addition to hardware, the software can be cheaper on iOS / Android too.

Game ratings on iOS start at 4 and up.
Games for the 3DS start at 7 and up. It's harder to market a product when there are warnings about vision.



http://www.nintendo.com/consumer/systems/3ds/en_na/health_safety.jsp

What happens this Christmas if Apple decides to launch an Apple TV that plays games... for $99? In these tough economic times, I think that's a serious threat to Nintendo.

So, Nintendo's portable line is under attack... both from Sony/Android and now Apple. Nintendo's console market is also under attack, as the Wii appears to be losing steam. If Apple enters the market with a $100 system, that's serious competition.

Here's a story... I was asked to make a recommendation for a gift. This was a nice gift, something around $250. At first I looked at the Nintendo 3DS. I thought it would be a cool gift because it was new. Yet, there was a regional lockout issue and I'm not sure it's something that's really good for a kid. At least with an iPod Touch, there's more to do with it than just games. Sure... the Nintendo 3DS does more than just games, but I think that the iPod Touch is a much better overall device... FaceTime, web browsing, iOS development, books, utilities, entertainment. It says, "Hey, I want you to have fun... but I also want you to learn something and be productive."

I recommended the iPod Touch. But surprisingly, this was not the gift that was purchased. Instead, an Android tablet was purchased as the gift. Heh... Android... that would not have been my choice.

Yet, that's the changing market. With iOS and Android, there's a lot more competition in portable devices... and I think that will eventually spill into the livingroom with game consoles. It's new technology that threatens Nintendo.

I think the strength of Nintendo is their software line... Mario, Zelda and popular games like that. If Nintendo struggles with hardware, they could eventually become software exclusive. That doomsday scenario has been uttered for many years — as Sony's entry into the market caused a lot of trouble for Nintendo. The company managed to turn things around with the DS and the Wii. Can Nintendo do it again when Apple is offering cheaper hardware, cheaper software?

One could argue about iOS games being mostly casual... and that the lack of a controller causes problems... but Apple can fix that problem if they so choose. With Game Center, and news like the one that started this thread, it shows that Apple is getting serious about gaming.

That's obviously big trouble for Nintendo.
Click to expand...

I do think the market can sustain 4 companies, perhaps even especially the casual market which is significantly larger. I would challenge you to answer why you think the smaller top-end console market can sustain 2 large players, but the broader casual market could not?
 
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8C148 Safari/6533.18.5)

[QUOTE/]

Govt SCUM!! (lol jk :D)[/QUOTE]

No need to soften the blow, I think your right on target.
 
jlasoon said:
That's not what he's saying. The premise being presented is adapt/evolve or face the consequences of a rapid moving technological world. Doesn't mean the company goes out of business.
Click to expand...

that's the thing, ninty have already shown that they can adapt and disrupt a market, they did it with the wii, the ds and they will do it with the 3DS...... they will still remain the kings of hand held gaming, primarily because the NGP will probably price itself out of the equation.

Ninty couldn't hold it's own when it came to the horsepower of the 360 and PS3 so it went in a different direction and that gamble payed off for them big time.
 
Photics said:
That's where things are going.

I read that a new XBOX might not be released for another 5 years and that the PlayStation is on a 10 year schedule. If that's actually the schedule, then the consoles could face serious competition from iOS and Android games.

The graphics difference from the first iPhone to the iPhone 4 or iPad 2 is a great comparison. That's just four years. What if that advancement continues for the next four years — which is very likely — the graphics could be amazing on iOS devices.
Click to expand...

There's a fair bit of misconception in the 10 year lifecycle of the PS3 - the PS2 had a ten year lifecycle too, but the PS3 was released well into that 10 years. The 10 year thing is taken out of context. There will most likely be a ps4 in a couple of years (well, if Japan recovers from the current happenings). I think the same thing can apply to the 360 - there's been a lot of talk about some thing similar - I do think that we won't see anything this year due to the runaway success of Kinect. We'll most likely get an announcement next year and a release the year after. I've a feeling that we'll see something different in the way compatibility works as there was talk of forward "compatible games" many have taken their own thoughts on what that has meant though.
 
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Doctor Q said:
Was the MacNN headline "Apple Poaching Gaming PR Execs from Activision and Nintendo?" the true story? It would give a very different impression if the headline had been "PR Execs Abandoning Activision and Nintendo for Apple?" And in fact the article says that Grange "jumped ship".

Were they pushed or pulled?
Click to expand...

That's why I don't bother ever going to appleinsider. Their headlines are sensationalized BS.
 
bugfaceuk said:
I do think the market can sustain 4 companies, perhaps even especially the casual market which is significantly larger. I would challenge you to answer why you think the smaller top-end console market can sustain 2 large players, but the broader casual market could not?
Click to expand...

I think the difference here is that Apple represents casual gaming, perhaps on a level that's greater than Nintendo. It was divide and conquer last generation. The "hardcore" players chose between the XBOX 360 and the PlayStation 3, while Nintendo opened a new market with casual gaming.

Like mentioned in my previous post, Radio survived the invention of the television. Nintendo could survive Apple's entry into gaming. Yet, I think it means harder times for Nintendo. In addition to competing over price, Nintendo has to compete for the player's time.

With the Internet, free casual games like FarmVille / CityVille, cheap iOS games, cheap Android games... even Microsoft trying to make something happen in Mobile... there are a lot of big guns in this arena.

I bought Super Mario Bros. Wii and I thought it was a great game. But soon after, having completed every possible objective in the game, I realized that it was expensive. The game just sits idle now... a $40-$50 dust collector. That's basically the overall fate for my Wii. It's not because I'm a casual gamer. It's because I'm tired of spending so much money for such a short entertainment experience.

While you might look down on the nine games I got for less than $10, I think it's great. I'm more likely to play Fruit Ninja and Tiny Wings than Super Mario Bros Wii. So, for approximately $40 less, I got more entertainment value from my iOS games... and many of these games are being updated. Is Nintendo going to go back and release a patch for the pixelation problem I see in the background of Super Mario Bros Wii?

I think Apple is better for the gaming industry... and I think the results of future competition will reflect that. I don't see the logic in how Nintendo stays the dominate player in the industry when Apple is making so many smart moves for gaming.

Game Center... GREAT!
iTunes App Store games... Awesome for me, as a developer and a consumer
iPhone 4... awesome!
Xcode / GameSalad... great!
 
bugfaceuk said:
I do think the market can sustain 4 companies, perhaps even especially the casual market which is significantly larger. I would challenge you to answer why you think the smaller top-end console market can sustain 2 large players, but the broader casual market could not?
Click to expand...

Unless Apple pulls a rabbit out of it's hat with Gaming, I'd think that iOS games would be more geared towards families and multiplayer... but not at the same level as something like Halo on XBox, but more like the Nitendo Wii games.

Given this, I think the systems that need to worry is Playstation (they've been having their own issues) and Nitendo given iOS games could easily take on the Nitendo market.

However, what's to say that Nitendo couldn't port some more popular games to iOS? It would be a killer combo and would expand their revenue stream to what could be a huge competitor.

IMHO, I think Nitendo should be talking to Apple and make it happen.
 
Heh, we were having a great discussion, but it seems that the thread exploded. :)

jlasoon said:
That's not what he's saying. The premise being presented is adapt/evolve or face the consequences of a rapid moving technological world. Doesn't mean the company goes out of business.
Click to expand...

Good, someone understands my point :)
 
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