Apple Releases Mac OS X 10.4.9

[matticus008]

I think you are nit-picking here. I would argue the opposite, that Apple only sells full licenses and not upgrades.

It's the nature of licensing models--contract law is all nitpicking and semantics, as I've already stated. In the practice of law as it pertains to these agreements, there are exactly two types of licenses: standalone and stacked. All OS X licenses are stacked because they all presuppose a suitable Mac OS license with the hardware--again, the sole difference between a standalone ("full retail") license and a stacked ("upgrade") license is that a standalone license works without the contractual presupposition of a prior version or license (regardless of any checks performed by the software installer itself).

If you have ever tried to use these disks to install OS X on a different machine, they won't let you because they are tied to the specific system sold.

Disc != license.

The disks are by definition full install disks because they contain a complete set of specialized drivers and optimized code for whatever Apple hardware you choose to load it on.

"Full install" and "full license" are not the same thing. You can perform a full install using an upgrade license as well--it's not supportive of your argument.

It doesn't require a previous version of OS X at all. You can perform a full install from any bare system that Apple sales. That by even your definition is a full license.

Apple doesn't sell any bare systems. You can't make a bare Mac--you can only make a blank Mac. These are terms with conventions on acceptance--"bare" means explicitly metal only for hardware and a zero-state assumption for software; "blank" just means an empty hard drive. The method of installation is again irrelevant to the cause. It's clear from your lack of understanding of the working legal definition of these terms that you're not versed in this particular area of expertise, and perhaps instead of arguing, questions might be a more suitable approach.

You are conflating permitted operations with the nature of the license, which is a common lay mistake.

 

[SeaFox]

I think you are nit-picking here. I would argue the opposite, that Apple only sells full licenses and not upgrades.

The new releases of OS X that you buy from Apple will let you install the new OS on any Apple hardware that supports OS X. The disks are by definition full install disks because they contain a complete set of specialized drivers and optimized code for whatever Apple hardware you choose to load it on. It can now even be PPC or x86 based and the install disks still work.

It doesn't require a previous version of OS X at all. You can perform a full install from any bare system that Apple sales. That by even your definition is a full license.

I agree with this side of the debate. Also, upgrade licenses work on the idea one gets a discount from the full retail price because they are the owner of a previous version of the software. This is done either by requiring proof of ownership of a previous copy (generally a serial number) at time of sale or install, or by requiring installation over a previous version of the product. Since there is only one price to pay for OSX in retail, it can't be said you're getting an upgrade discount, as there is no higher price to pay. And there is no previous ownership proof required. The price to "upgrade" from MacOS 8 to OSX 10.4 is the same as the price to upgrade from OSX 10.3 to 10.4, even though OS 8 is completely incompatible (you have to have at least 9.1 to run as Classic).

 

[macnvrbck]

Anyone seeing an increase in fan speed?

Since the upgrade a few hours ago the fans on my Powerbook have been going crazy! They are in high gear and are loud, it's running HOT! Anyone else seeing this? This was not the case before the upgrade.

Brian

 

[SeaFox]

Since the upgrade a few hours ago the fans on my Powerbook have been going crazy! They are in high gear and are loud, it's running HOT! Anyone else seeing this? This was not the case before the upgrade.

Brian

Don't we usually get a few reports of that every upgrade? I seem to remember the fixes being really simple like repairing permissions or zapping parameter RAM or a couple restarts. Can anyone else remember?

 

[digitalbiker]

It's clear from your lack of understanding of the working legal definition of these terms that you're not versed in this particular area of expertise, and perhaps instead of arguing, questions might be a more suitable approach.

You are conflating permitted operations with the nature of the license, which is a common lay mistake.

Well you have me there. Not only do I admit to not being a lawyer, I admit to having a strong disdain for the entire legal profession.

In my opinion the only purpose of a lawyer is to get between two reasonable parties and prevent them from reaching a fair and equitable solution for the the sole purpose of delaying and extorting a huge amount of money from the two parties.

I am a scientist and software developer.

 

[matticus008]

I agree with this side of the debate. Also, upgrade licenses work on the idea one gets a discount from the full retail price because they are the owner of a previous version of the software.

Again conflating implementation with fundamentals. The price discount is a business decision and a loyalty perk--it has no bearing on the stipulation made between originator and customer.

Since there is only one price to pay for OSX in retail, it can't be said you're getting an upgrade discount, as there is no higher price to pay.

That logic works both ways--there is no higher-priced version to prove the existence of an upgrade price just as there is no lower-priced version to prove that it's a full retail price. The price alone cannot determine anything about the license. If you really did want to look at dollar signs, though, why is OS X the same price as the low end of Windows upgrade licenses, despite higher per-unit development costs and far lower volume?

And there is no previous ownership proof required.

Sure there is. Your proof of ownership is the Mac itself--if you have a Macintosh, you have a license to MacOS. No Apple Mac in the OS X era has ever been sold without one, so there's no need to seek proof positive.

In my opinion the only purpose of a lawyer is to get between two reasonable parties and prevent them from reaching a fair and equitable solution for the the sole purpose of delaying and extorting a huge amount of money from the two parties.

An opinion based on what? Frivolous lawsuits? It takes unreasonable people to make unreasonable claims for there to be a frivolous lawsuit. The problem with your statement is that two reasonable parties seeking a fair and equitable solution wouldn't need lawyers in the first place.

 

[pjarvi]

I restart and a window saying that Aqua has been restored appear, I guess SS isn't working now. Damn! (And I don't have the guts to re-install any themes now)

That's normal, it does it as a precaution. Just go into ShapeShifter and turn on whatever theme you want. Ignore the warning about the theme not being compatible.

 

[ogee]

Update has messed with sound on my Mac Pro - first, the update switched the speaker to the internal (not a big deal, just switched it back to line out). Second, and more irritatingly, the sound volume on my bluetooth Apple keyboard does not adjust the volume. I get the nice little speaker image on my screen, and the hash marks move up and down, but no volume change. I can adjust the volume from the sound system preference pane. Third, sound effects only play through the internal speakers, not over the line out. I've tried switching them, to no avail.

I had this before upgrading on 10.4.8 also on a mac pro.

Switched back to internal, then back again to line out. shutdown reboot all ok.

 

[ogee]

Apparently, many users had complained of unintentional ejections on Apple's notebook models....

ROFL... Must be PC Switchers getting too excited

 

[Rod Rod]

I looked everywhere. Can someone please help me find out if the Logitech Quickcam Express is UVC compliant?

Because in this update iChat supports USB web cams I wish there was a list of those compatible...

http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/products/details/NL/EN,CRID=2204,CONTENTID=11531

Did you try connecting your Logitech webcam to a 10.4.9 system? If it doesn't work in iChat in 10.4.8, you really aren't losing anything by trying.

Referring to my problem with iTunes after the update (on page 17), it was because of my ipod shuffle (g2). Disconnected it from the dock and now everything works fine.. Strange though how it came to this

It's not strange at all. Age-old Software Update wisdom is to disconnect all USB and FireWire devices and cables. Keyboard, mouse and Apple display are fine to keep connected but everything else must go.

No problems with full recognition of each 1GB RAM module with Tiger 10.4 until this update.

I've emailed OWC Tech support and am awaiting a response.

Any suggestions?

You're all set. You can pat yourself on the back for buying from OWC with the lifetime warranty they have.

Hello all, earlier in this thread around page 5 i think i mentioned that my Blackbook c2d did not start up and only showed a Folder with a Q mark.

The promblem was fixed only after i restarted from tghe orig install dvd, then run diskutility to repair the disk and its permissions, and then while working from the dvd choose the start up disk from the macbook, all other methods to choose the start up disk failed.

So it turns out that "Repair Disk Permissions" is not voodoo after all.

Logitech USB webcam will work with iChat... but if you're using an Intel Mac, Logitech hasn't yet released a universal version of any of their webcams' drivers, and Rosetta DOES NOT like Logitech's USB webcams at all... on Intel Macs, the USB cams will work (here and there), but the camera will crash iChat (eventually, or all the time). it will be a hard crash too, so you will not be able to force-quit the application (which only a system restart will cure).

The deal is that an OS X app running on Intel hardware which is native Intel or Universal Binary cannot work with PPC-code plugins. An OS X app running in Rosetta on Intel hardware cannot do anything with Intel-code or Universal Binary (unless Rosetta is forced on the latter) plugins. This article discusses an analogous situation with a workaround.

Mine is UVC... at least it shows up as "USB Video Class" in LiveWorship.

Did you try it with iChat? If you have other drivers installed (such as macam or iChatUSBCam, that might be causing some sort of conflict? It could be that one of those is playing rock-paper-scissors with the UVC support in 10.4.9, and winning.

Just curious, how are you guys hitting the eject key by mistake?

I don't look at the keyboard when I type. When I reach for the far corner of my MBP's keyboard for F12 (dashboard) or delete, I end up hitting the eject button by mistake. I hardly ever have a CD or DVD in the drive but the drive makes its noises.

 

[3nm]

Sorry to side track the conversation, but is anyone else having connection issues w/ Adium? My connection is all jacked up

adium working fine under 10.4.9 here.

 

[3nm]

Just curious, how are you guys hitting the eject key by mistake?

it's actually fairly easy to hit the eject button instead of delete on the MB or MBP.

it usually doesn't bother me that much, but it gets annoying when i'm writing/revising a paper at 3am.

 

[digitalbiker]

An opinion based on what? Frivolous lawsuits? It takes unreasonable people to make unreasonable claims for there to be a frivolous lawsuit. The problem with your statement is that two reasonable parties seeking a fair and equitable solution wouldn't need lawyers in the first place.

While this is way off topic, I'll answer once and then let it go. It really isn't pertainent to frivilous lawsuits but is merely regarding legal disputes between two arguing parties.

My only experience is 50 years of life and dealing with lawyers over the past 35 years.

In almost every legal case I have been involved in or provided expert testimony for, the begininning of the end was when the two parties decided to go see their lawyer. Prior to seeing a lawyer, the disputes were significant but negotiable and the opposing parties were communicating directly albiet without a lot of progress to a solution.

However once the lawyers were brought in they became an instant communication block between the two parties, they discouraged communication, incouraged more demands, delayed all confrontations in court or otherwise, and in general drug out disputes for years and collected outrageous fees. In the end neither party won, only the lawyers.

I feel about lawyers the same way I feel about bankers. They add no real value to the economy and they create nothing. They simply exist by becoming middle men and manipulating the system.

 

[cafe99]

Yesterday, I did an upgrade to 10.4.9. My MacBook can't bootup.
After reinstall back to 10.4.8. and did an upgrade again. It work finally.
But my Parallels, can't run and got this error :

"Parallels Desktop is unable to operate properly since it cannot communicate with one of its drivers. Try to restart the application to overcome this issue. If restart doesn't help, re-install Parallels Desktop. Note that Parallels drivers require a short time to be properly started and initialized. So you may need to wait a minute before trying to launch the application."

Will re-install it, and update this forum later.

cafe99
Singapore!

 

[VanNess]

In other news, anyone notice this?. Its now Apple Inc. and no longer Apple computers

I'm filing this as a bug report.

 

[wmmk]

$#!T
the 10.4.9 update just broke my system, and I had to reinstall OS X. fortunately, I still have my apps, docs, and library, but my system modifications (most notably Qt4 and Uno) are all gone. Oh well.

Problem is, it's 11:00 PM central, and I have a huge report to finish. I wouldn't be posting otherwise, but I'd like people to know that the update can cause problems.

I'm buying a backup drive tomorrow! And until I do a bootable complete backup, I will not touch my system for anything other than this darned report!

 

[Eric5h5]

So it turns out that "Repair Disk Permissions" is not voodoo after all.

Yes, actually, it is. Let's look at that quote again: "then run diskutility to repair the disk and its permissions". I bolded the part that actually had any effect. Repairing the disk is a legitimate action to take if the file system gets messed up. That's a different and separate thing from repairing permissions, which is a waste of time 999 times out of 1000.

--Eric

 

[MacsAttack]

$#!T
the 10.4.9 update just broke my system, and I had to reinstall OS X. fortunately, I still have my apps, docs, and library, but my system modifications (most notably Qt4 and Uno) are all gone. Oh well.

Problem is, it's 11:00 PM central, and I have a huge report to finish. I wouldn't be posting otherwise, but I'd like people to know that the update can cause problems.

Which just goes to show, if you have an important project to finish just don't mess with your machine if you can possibly avoid it. Which is why my MacBook has been updatd, but my Mac Pro is going to have to wait a few days.

I'm two for two here. MacBook and Mac Mini both updated fine. Once I'm sure everything is working I'll look at bringing my Mac Pro up to date.

I'm buying a backup drive tomorrow! And until I do a bootable complete backup, I will not touch my system for anything other than this darned report!

That is what I do. An external FW drive partitioned into three - one for each Mac. Carbon Copy Cloner gets used before each update or install so i have a bootable image that I can just fire up and restore from.

Plus I have two FW800 1TB drives that are used for data backup. I run them in Raid 1 mode (so I only get about 500 MB storage). Almost as reliable as tape, more capacty and speed, and much less expensive. You can get kind of paranoid about your data when getting paid depends on it

Thinking about sourceing two of those new 1TB drives that are just arriving on the market and setting them up for Time Machine...

 

[Darkroom]

Broken Boot Up

i installed 10.4.9 and it killed my system... it made it really slow... so i used Tech Tools Pro 4 DVD and did a full sweep of the computer (even optimization)... now the system is fast again, BUT the boot up is all crazy...

firstly, bootup take 10 times longer now (i'm on a iMac C2D 2GHz), and the "starting mac os x" splash screen doesn't appear... instead of the splash screen, there's the rotary icon that appears when you're shutting down the system...

it looks like the computer starts, then it tries to shutdown, but then (5 minutes later) there's the desktop.

 

[virtual]

Just updated everything, all seems fine. Sound doesn't seem any different, or a marginal improvement.

Also, it would seem it checks the CD-ROM drive to make sure there is a disc in there now before trying to do the "derrrr derr derrrrrr" eject

Nice one, Apple

 

[thewhitehart]

I was having serious airport problems under 10.4.8 (see every thread I posted in the past four monthsfor the details ). After the 07-002 Airport Update to 10.4.8, my airport was completely fixed, and running at full strength in Internet Connect. After 10.4.9, the menu bar signal dropped one step, and I only get 11 to 12 bars out of 15 in Internet Connect.

Has anyone else had airport slowdowns since installing 10.4.9? I'm talking about my imac core duo.

 

[matticus008]

Also, it would seem it checks the CD-ROM drive to make sure there is a disc in there now before trying to do the "derrrr derr derrrrrr" eject

Nice one, Apple

No kidding! I can't tell you how many times my PowerBook has scared the crap out of me at night, which is even worse given that it has an especially loud optical drive.

Prior to seeing a lawyer, the disputes were significant but negotiable and the opposing parties were communicating directly albiet without a lot of progress to a solution.
[...]
I feel about lawyers the same way I feel about bankers. They add no real value to the economy and they create nothing. They simply exist by becoming middle men and manipulating the system.

Thankfully, the fate of the world doesn't depend on your reversal of cause and effect, legal expertise, or economic musings. If you get attorneys involved in a conflict you have either exhausted all negotiation avenues or you seek a competitive advantage over the other side. Believe me, lawyers have entirely too much on their plates on would much rather close cases than allow them to linger; there are only so many billable hours in a day and no lack of work to fill them.

But I'm not about to bash an entire profession based on whimsy. I could, after all; I know that tens of thousands of software engineers and scientists work for big tobacco and insurance companies or firms that ravage the rainforest. I could do what you do and claim that they're a corrupt bunch, a detriment to society, and all make their astronomical salaries at the expense of the environment, the unwell, and defenseless animals. But that would be petty.

 

[Rod Rod]

Yes, actually, it is. Let's look at that quote again: "then run diskutility to repair the disk and its permissions". I bolded the part that actually had any effect. Repairing the disk is a legitimate action to take if the file system gets messed up. That's a different and separate thing from repairing permissions, which is a waste of time 999 times out of 1000.

--Eric

Gotcha.. I've only needed to "Repair Disk" when a hard drive was on its last legs and seriously failing (invalid tree forks or somesuch). However, I've seen many cases where permissions repair actually set things straight. It seems that there's compelling but anecdotal evidence on both sides of this issue.

 

[DaveTheGrey]

I only read from page 17 to the end but has anyone noticed that the RAM usage is much lower now? iStatPro shows 400MB free with 11 aps running.

very nice

12"PB 1GHz
1.25 GB RAM

 

[cal6n]

So it turns out that "Repair Disk Permissions" is not voodoo after all.

Wrong.

Repairing permissions when there's a problem to solve isn't voodoo but repairing permissions as a matter of course is.

All clear now?