Apple Reportedly Preparing to Remove Bose Audio Products From Retail Stores

[UpperQuadrant]

Your quotes are getting sillier



No, good people as in they do their jobs and stay out of trouble. You know, like everyone else in society.



Please re-read my quote. I said for every 1 bad player you can name I can name 10-15 that haven't had any issues. Meaning the vast majority of players do their jobs and stay out of trouble. Again, like everyone else in society. There's no substantial jump in criminality in the NFL vs the population at large.

As for Lance Armstrong, it was widely known "secret" about his doping. Not the best example you could find.



You speak as if you do know what players do behind the scenes. Even if you knew what some players did, it doesn't give you a blanket license to condemn all players. Unless you know all players, then by all means, condemn away.



Basing an argument on Jerry McGuire? That's gotta be some sort of first. Again, you're focusing on the minority of players and projecting it on the entirety of the group. Very few players on a team are promoted. Most are faceless names on a jersey doing yeoman's work in the trenches. Are there "fast life" players in the NFL? Yup. Always has been, always will be. Just like there are "fast life" people in other segments of society.

You say you remember when there used to be more honesty in Pro Sports? I say you're misremembering <-- I know that's not a real word. There have always been malcontents in sports. In the media back then, it was either conveniently covered up or completely ignored. With today's pervasive media coverage, it's damn near impossible to do anything without someone finding out. It wasn't perfect back then and it isn't perfect now.

Tattoos are also a proud tradition of the men and women in the military who protect this country and others.

Confession: didn't watch video. figured it to be just as spurious as the rest.

WHatever, I call them like I see them. I haven't run into too many professional NBA, NFL, or MLB players that I would hire to work for a company I would be in charge of. Staying out of trouble and not getting caught are two different things. OK, name 10 or 15 right off the bat that you think are respected athletes in the NFL, MBL, or NBA that conduct themselves on and off the court with a high degree of respect that are playing in the league currently or recently.

Have you seen Joe Nameth, OJ Simpson, Dennis Rodman, Shaq (the guy is stupid enough to buy into a team he used to call the Queens, and now he owns the total loser team called Sac Kings), TOTAL idiot, he goes around saying how he hates sodas, yet he markets his own brand of sugar water, TOTAL idiot. The list goes on. How many of them are pot smokers? How many cheat on their wives, beat up animals, girlfriends, doping with performance enhancement drugs, etc. These days, most of these guys are self absorbed *********s. What do they do when their career is over? Most of these guys are dumb as stumps. I've seen a couple of them that are worth a crap, but most of them are idiots I wouldn't hang around and spend quality time with. Even some of the ones that were top players that never got caught using were using drugs during their Hey Day. The list goes on and on and on.

So, name your 10 to 15 off the top of your head that you know with 100% certainty that they I would think are high quality people.

 

[Jiz]

Anybody in the hifi hobby will tell you BOSE is junk.
They spend more on advertising than they do on the equipment.

 

[John.B]

That ship has sailed. Without these sponsorships, salaries would have to significantly decrease and ticket prices would have to increase.

Or they'd have to better align expenses with revenues. Like the rest of America does every day...

 

[UpperQuadrant]

I am also a professional audio engineer and can also attest to the fact that I've never seen Bose products being used in any studio or post-production facility throughout California from Todd AO to Skywalker Sound. When it comes to headphones, professionals use the Sony MDR-V600 and MDR-7506, Sennheiser, Beyerdynamic and AKG K240 because they have a flat frequency response that is not sweetened at the high end, or in the case of Beats, at the low end.

As for more recent brands, the Focal Spirit Professional and KRK KNS-8000 have very detailed but flat frequency responses. Bose and Beats don't have any role in professional studios.

As for audiophile brands, Grado SR80 or Reference series, V-Moda M-100, Bowers & Wilkins P7 & Sennheiser Momentums are what I would recommend.

Bose uses Bose headphones and speakers when they master the recordings for Bose demos so they sound good on Bose headphones and speakers but those same demo CDs sound like crap on anything else.

Yeah, I've been in various recording studios since the 70's and I've never seen Bose being used by anyone. I think people with their hobby studios making some silly garage band based recording might use something relatively cheap, but for the most part, they don't use Bose in the studio, maybe these hip hop producers use Beats headphones because Dr. Dre says so, but the REAL studios producing the higher quality recordings generally don't even use headphone, but if they do they use the higher end brands and models you've mentioned. It all depends on whether it's a musician listening to others while recording vs engineers using them to monitor with. I've seen some that are recording high end classical recordings in remote locations use HD800's since they are using a couple of mikes in a concert hall or church when they are recording a couple of people playing acoustic instruments and they are just doing some quick reference listening. I guess it depends on what the engineer/musician likes and is used to, but generally the good ones simply don't use Bose or Beats in studios unless they are told to by the producer/record label. Even a lot of engineers are getting away from even using NS-10's Yamahas that were used back in the 80's when they gained popularity amongst the pop recording studios.

 

[lotones]

The problem with sound equipment is everyone has different tastes. Some people prefer the sound they get with Beats and some prefer Bose. I actually have both and I enjoy them both, I have a Beats Pill that I pair my iPhone with via Bluetooth and for that use, it is great. I have a pair of Bose headphones that I absolutely love, they aren't noise cancelling but they might as well be. I can put them on and no matter what I am listening to, I cannot hear surrounding noise. My husband has a Bose sound dock that we use in our apartment and it fills the whole apartment with sound. For me, I prefer my Pill when I am listening to music with more bass and I prefer the Bose when listening to classical music. But you know what? That is MY OPINION! One is not better than the other, they just meet different needs.

Not to criticize your point, but you inadvertently illustrated the quality issues with both brands. Any mediocre sound source can sound descent if you play to it's strengths. Which is why so many people are perfectly happy listening to hip-hop on Beats headphones and easy-listening music on Bose products. Neither will replace a decent quality, well-balanced audio source to people who can hear the difference.

Good audio fidelity means being able to reproduce any kind music accurately. A good audio source should be able to accurately reproduce bass heavy music and classical music, and everything in-between. And it's telling that, even by your experience, neither Beats nor Bose are known to be able to do that.

Beats can almost be forgiven because they aren't marketed as "audiophile quality" (as far as I know), they're just over-priced vanity items. Bose, on the other hand, is not only over-priced, but has claimed for decades to provide a near audiophile experience by magically abusing the laws of physics and known science, then refusing to provide real world specifications for their products.

imho, if both brands lowered their price-points by a couple hundred dollars to reflect their true value no one would have a problem. Selling them at a premium is misleading at best.

 

[Jambalaya]

You must be a seasoned audiophile!

Anyway, the "anti-competitive" bla bla is funny, considering that Bose is a direct competitor of Apple now, regardless of the (non?)-quality of both brands.

(I don't have any experiences with Beats, different target audience and Bose - the Companion 5 speaker system for my gaming PC makes me happy enough to enjoy it)

Seasoned in my case just means old. Agreed beats/Bose have different target markets so it's strange Apple won't have Bose products in their stores.

 

[davideotape]

i wouldn't expect a sony store to sell x-boxes. everyone get a grip, it's not anti-competitive. you can buy bose anywhere else.

the weird thing is the nfl deal. how are those folks seriously a non-profit group when stuff like this happens?

 

[UpperQuadrant]

Anybody in the hifi hobby will tell you BOSE is junk.
They spend more on advertising than they do on the equipment.

Yeah, their flagship 901's use $3 drivers and it's the same crap they had 30+ years ago. They were crap then and they are still crap.

Bose uses fundamentally screwed up physics. They rely more on reflected sound rather than direct sound. That was the big thing about their flagship 901 product when they got released to the market. Yeah, have 8 small drivers facing away from the listener and only one small driver facing the listener. That's like the biggest freakin NO NO in the industry.

Yeah, Bose was HUGE in terms of marketing, that they were good at. People have to realize that a lot of the magazines are heavily influenced by their advertisers, for the high end audio guys, Bose doesn't even buy ad space, that's not their market. they are more of the average consumer that doesn't read the high end audio related magazines.

If someone wants to find out more about headphones, I would go to www.InnerFidelity.com, that's all they do is headphones and headphone related products and they keep pretty up to date on everything from the cheap to the real expensive and the guy that runs it is pretty fair in his assessments. I don't necessarily agree with him on everything, but he's usually pretty spot on with his reviews of products.

 

[69Mustang]

WHatever, I call them like I see them. I haven't run into too many professional NBA, NFL, or MLB players that I would hire to work for a company I would be in charge of. Staying out of trouble and not getting caught are two different things. OK, name 10 or 15 right off the bat that you think are respected athletes in the NFL, MBL, or NBA that conduct themselves on and off the court with a high degree of respect that are playing in the league currently or recently.

Have you seen Joe Nameth, OJ Simpson, Dennis Rodman, Shaq (the guy is stupid enough to buy into a team he used to call the Queens, and now he owns the total loser team called Sac Kings), TOTAL idiot, he goes around saying how he hates sodas, yet he markets his own brand of sugar water, TOTAL idiot. The list goes on. How many of them are pot smokers? How many cheat on their wives, beat up animals, girlfriends, doping with performance enhancement drugs, etc. These days, most of these guys are self absorbed *********s. What do they do when their career is over? Most of these guys are dumb as stumps. I've seen a couple of them that are worth a crap, but most of them are idiots I wouldn't hang around and spend quality time with. Even some of the ones that were top players that never got caught using were using drugs during their Hey Day. The list goes on and on and on.

So, name your 10 to 15 off the top of your head that you know with 100% certainty that they I would think are high quality people.

This has to be the silliest quote yet. But I must say, you win. Your arguments are far too compelling for me to counter.

If we were kids, I could understand the bolded portion of your statement. As adults, I would think we would be above using absolutes like "100% certainty" when we both know that's an impossibility.

You seem to have an ax to grind against athletes. I mean a serious ax to grind. I'm going to bow out now, but I don't want to leave you with nothing for your ax.

What you have here, according to EBay, is a Super Primitive Antique Stone Ax Grinder. subtext included free of charge You're welcome.

 

[threesixty360]

Yeah, I've been in various recording studios since the 70's and I've never seen Bose being used by anyone. I think people with their hobby studios making some silly garage band based recording might use something relatively cheap, but for the most part, they don't use Bose in the studio, maybe these hip hop producers use Beats headphones because Dr. Dre says so, but the REAL studios producing the higher quality recordings generally don't.

This is ridiculous! You don't see Bose in studio's because they make CONSUMER based stuff to make records sound good for CONSUMERS! The eq curve is designed in a way to hype certain frequencies and round off the bass to let listeners hear the bass better without distorting the sound. For that purpose Bose can't be touched.

In a studio you need a sound that is as untreated as possible because your looking for mistakes and problems in the audio. Your not listening to sound for enjoyment purposes when you are using NS10's. Your using them because they show up mid and high frequency problems better. Speakers in a studio are TOOLS not enjoyment devices.

And no one mixes records in headphones anyway! It's nuts. You can't judge anything properly in headphones in terms of a real mix. Bose don't even make professional audio monitors like genlec or dynaudio do. And they don't make reference class headphones either like byer dynamic or sony. They make consumer headphones and speaker/amp systems that colour the sound for consumer use. If you don't like the sound curve then fine, but to go on like its crap stuff is just ridiculous.


Dre has got everyone thinking with his marketing bs that studio's use beats for that real sound. The reality is studio monitoring equipment is COMPLETEY OPPOSITE in it's intention vs consumer speaker equipment. I wish people could understand that.

 

[xxstatic]

Bose are bad...but dang...Beats are worse...

 

[lotones]

This is ridiculous! You don't see Bose in studio's because they make CONSUMER based stuff to make records sound good for CONSUMERS! The eq curve is designed in a way to hype certain frequencies and round off the bass to let listeners hear the bass better without distorting the sound. For that purpose Bose can't be touched.

In a studio you need a sound that is as untreated as possible because your looking for mistakes and problems in the audio. Your not listening to sound for enjoyment purposes when you are using NS10's. Your using them because they show up mid and high frequency problems better. Speakers in a studio are TOOLS not enjoyment devices.

And no one mixes records in headphones anyway! It's nuts. You can't judge anything properly in headphones in terms of a real mix. Bose don't even make professional audio monitors like genlec or dynaudio do. And they don't make reference class headphones either like byer dynamic or sony. They make consumer headphones and speaker/amp systems that colour the sound for consumer use. If you don't like the sound curve then fine, but to go on like its crap stuff is just ridiculous.


Dre has got everyone thinking with his marketing bs that studio's use beats for that real sound. The reality is studio monitoring equipment is COMPLETEY OPPOSITE in it's intention vs consumer speaker equipment. I wish people could understand that.

What does CONSUMER mean to you? "People who can't hear as well as normal people and deserve to pay more for less"?

In that case you're right, "For that purpose Bose can't be touched."

 

[samcraig]

I'm all for salary decrease amongst these prima dona athletes. They should cap them at $250K a year and that's PLENTY of money. If they want to make more than that, then they can get another job doing something else, or play year round in different leagues. They simply pay these idiots WAY too much money and a lot of them are screw ups, some aren't, but the majority of them are idiots that can't get a regular job that pays good money.

I don't disagree - I just see the likelihood being slim

 

[UpperQuadrant]

This is ridiculous! You don't see Bose in studio's because they make CONSUMER based stuff to make records sound good for CONSUMERS! The eq curve is designed in a way to hype certain frequencies and round off the bass to let listeners hear the bass better without distorting the sound. For that purpose Bose can't be touched.

In a studio you need a sound that is as untreated as possible because your looking for mistakes and problems in the audio. Your not listening to sound for enjoyment purposes when you are using NS10's. Your using them because they show up mid and high frequency problems better. Speakers in a studio are TOOLS not enjoyment devices.

And no one mixes records in headphones anyway! It's nuts. You can't judge anything properly in headphones in terms of a real mix. Bose don't even make professional audio monitors like genlec or dynaudio do. And they don't make reference class headphones either like byer dynamic or sony. They make consumer headphones and speaker/amp systems that colour the sound for consumer use. If you don't like the sound curve then fine, but to go on like its crap stuff is just ridiculous.


Dre has got everyone thinking with his marketing bs that studio's use beats for that real sound. The reality is studio monitoring equipment is COMPLETEY OPPOSITE in it's intention vs consumer speaker equipment. I wish people could understand that.

Uh, Yamaha NS-10's were used because they were crappy sounding speakers. That's why Bob Clearmountain used them, but idiots THOUGHT they were a reference quality uncolored sound, which is total hogwash. If you talk to one of the leading mastering engineers, Bob Ludwig, he hates using them because they sound like crap. Utter garbage. Why does he use them? Because he gets requests by record labels to spit out mastering jobs specifically catering to radio versions or just music that's meant for the teenagers that typically have crappy sounding speakers. That's what type of reference speaker they are. They are certainly not uncolored sounding speakers.

If you go to the UK, they have the BBC monitor standard that's been used in TV and Music industry for decades based around a MUCH better sounding monitor and there is a plethora of BBC style monitors from Harbeth, ATC, Rogers, and a whole bunch of companies and those speakers start at $1500 and go up to large sums of money and THEY are great sounding bookshelf's that are VERY neutral and uncolored. Now, for the high end mastering studios, you'll find B&W 800 series which are $35K a pair, Wilson Audio speakers that are the $20K or higher speakers, Eggleston Ivy's (Bob Ludwig's personal choice) at $100K a pair, to all kinds of monitors that are in the $5000 on up to hundreds of thousands for the top end OceanWay or customer made stuff. Bookshelf monitors that decent studios use range, and a lot of studios will carry several pairs of speakers so they can cater to a wider variety of producers that simply like certain monitors. NS-10's are still used, but less and less. JBL is getting back some market share in the US, as are others. Meyer sells a fair amount of their HD10's.

It's all over the map but the NS-10's are FAR from an uncolored sound. I had a friend of mine that used to work at Yamaha during the HeyDay of the NS-10's and he gave me a pair of the bigger sibling, the NS-20's which were slightly larger with two bass drivers and the same tweeter and hooked it up to see what they sounded like, they were in perfect working condition, but the sound quality next to my personal pair of the older B&W802's, the NS-20's sounded like total 100% dogpoop and I had a decent amp/pre amp, cables and CD player. Yamaha is like the Bose of the recording studio industry. Great at marketing, great at attracting big names to use as endorsers, but the bottom line is their NS-10's were junk. I think people misused the term "reference" thinking they were flat response and accurate sounding speakers, they aren't. They were a reference for an average pair of cheap speakers and that's what they were good for. People producing pop oriented music cater to teenagers and younger adults that don't have high end audio systems, the classical/acoustic jazz record labels cater more towards the demanding audiophile that want accurate sounding recordings. That's the difference I see.

If you listen to predominately pop oriented "produced" music with a lot of computer generated sounds and lots of signal processing, it's not as critical because sonic accuracy is not a high priority. But for the classical and acoustic jazz buffs that want a piano, violin, etc. to sound like the real thing, cheap speakers simply fall apart in those listening tests. The average consumer listens to more "produced" music and nowadays, it rarely has actual REAL instruments that are unprocessed, most of the stuff the masses listens to are heavily processed computer based sounds, samples, etc. so again, sonic quality is not a high priority.

 

[tomcworld]

Whilst I’d never buy Beats or Bose, this is an embarrassingly anti-consumer, anti-choice move.

Anti-choice? It's business! Are you going to make a big stink about Bose stores not carrying Beats headphones too?

 

[5232152]

Never had nothing but great sound and value from Bose. Unless the quality has fallen over the last few years, everyone beating the brand has never owned a Bose product or just a Beats-jerk, who has a fetish for shiny plastic.

 

[AppleScruff1]

Anybody in the hifi hobby will tell you BOSE is junk.
They spend more on advertising than they do on the equipment.

What do they tell you about Beats?

 

[lkrupp]

both brands are overpriced, but I would much rather buy Bose than Beats.

Frankly I find what Apple is doing here is anti-competitive. but hey, I don't buy accessories from Apple store anyway, so it doesn't bother me.

Oh, but what Bose is doing is not anti-competitive? They can ban Beats products from the NFL because they paid enough money for the right? By your logic all the Apple stores should be forced to carry Android phones, right? Right? I mean that’s what you imply with your logic.

Try thinking before you post.

 

[AppleScruff1]

I'm sure most people respect and take seriously someone who calls people idiots to prove their point.

----------

Oh, but what Bose is doing is not anti-competitive? They can ban Beats products from the NFL because they paid enough money for the right? By your logic all the Apple stores should be forced to carry Android phones, right? Right? I mean that’s what you imply with your logic.

Try thinking before you post.

Bose didn't ban Beats products.

 

[threesixty360]

Uh, Yamaha NS-10's were used because they were crappy sounding speakers. That's why Bob Clearmountain used them, but idiots THOUGHT they were a reference quality uncolored sound, which is total hogwash. If you talk to one of the leading mastering engineers, Bob Ludwig, he hates using them because they sound like crap. Utter garbage. Why does he use them? Because he gets requests by record labels to spit out mastering jobs specifically catering to radio versions or just music that's meant for the teenagers that typically have crappy sounding speakers. That's what type of reference speaker they are. They are certainly not uncolored sounding speakers.

If you go to the UK, they have the BBC monitor standard that's been used in TV and Music industry for decades based around a MUCH better sounding monitor and there is a plethora of BBC style monitors from Harbeth, ATC, Rogers, and a whole bunch of companies and those speakers start at $1500 and go up to large sums of money and THEY are great sounding bookshelf's that are VERY neutral and uncolored. Now, for the high end mastering studios, you'll find B&W 800 series which are $35K a pair, Wilson Audio speakers that are the $20K or higher speakers, Eggleston Ivy's (Bob Ludwig's personal choice) at $100K a pair, to all kinds of monitors that are in the $5000 on up to hundreds of thousands for the top end OceanWay or customer made stuff. Bookshelf monitors that decent studios use range, and a lot of studios will carry several pairs of speakers so they can cater to a wider variety of producers that simply like certain monitors. NS-10's are still used, but less and less. JBL is getting back some market share in the US, as are others. Meyer sells a fair amount of their HD10's.

It's all over the map but the NS-10's are FAR from an uncolored sound. I had a friend of mine that used to work at Yamaha during the HeyDay of the NS-10's and he gave me a pair of the bigger sibling, the NS-20's which were slightly larger with two bass drivers and the same tweeter and hooked it up to see what they sounded like, they were in perfect working condition, but the sound quality next to my personal pair of the older B&W802's, the NS-20's sounded like total 100% dogpoop and I had a decent amp/pre amp, cables and CD player. Yamaha is like the Bose of the recording studio industry. Great at marketing, great at attracting big names to use as endorsers, but the bottom line is their NS-10's were junk. I think people misused the term "reference" thinking they were flat response and accurate sounding speakers, they aren't. They were a reference for an average pair of cheap speakers and that's what they were good for. People producing pop oriented music cater to teenagers and younger adults that don't have high end audio systems, the classical/acoustic jazz record labels cater more towards the demanding audiophile that want accurate sounding recordings. That's the difference I see.

If you listen to predominately pop oriented "produced" music with a lot of computer generated sounds and lots of signal processing, it's not as critical because sonic accuracy is not a high priority. But for the classical and acoustic jazz buffs that want a piano, violin, etc. to sound like the real thing, cheap speakers simply fall apart in those listening tests. The average consumer listens to more "produced" music and nowadays, it rarely has actual REAL instruments that are unprocessed, most of the stuff the masses listens to are heavily processed computer based sounds, samples, etc. so again, sonic quality is not a high priority.

It's not about having an uncoloured sound. It's about having a speaker that allows you to create a mix that works across many different types of speaker. That same mix has to work in a car, in a night club and in your iPod headhones. The NS10 is an example of ****** monitor that because of its shiftiness forced mixers to work harder to get a good mix and somehow those mixes translated well a pop mixes for radio. The end result is that the NS10 was a "tool" used to solve a specific problem and not because it sounded good.

My point is that studio gear is used as a tool first and foremost and not because it sounds nice. I used the NS10's in my example because it's one of the most extreme examples of studio monitors not sounding particular good in terms of normal listening requirements yet became very useful in the 90's/2000's for producing music.

Your average joe consumer is playing music in an untreated room and will be using unbalanced cables etc... So will probably not benefit from the neutral sounding reference monitors that are used in studio's. Which is where companies like bose come into play, they make music equipment for the average joe and eq / hype the sound accordingly.

I just think the two markets are different, but because from a marketing angle professional gear Feels sexy to average joes so they get caught up in the hype and start buying gear that is not designed for them.

 

[thisisdallas]

A couple of years ago I had the same question and, after reading a lot of reviews and discussions, came up with a list. I can remember the following:

- Sony MDR-7506 (less than $100)
- Grado SR80i (less than $100)
- Audio Technica ATH-M50 ($170)

But what about when it comes to earbuds? I'd love a pair of sweat resistant bluetooth earbuds with top level sound quality. My only problem is that the only companies I know of that really sell them is Jaybird, which I don't believe has sound quality comparable to Bose.

 

[threesixty360]

What does CONSUMER mean to you? "People who can't hear as well as normal people and deserve to pay more for less"?

In that case you're right, "For that purpose Bose can't be touched."

Consumer means your average joe that doesn't have a treated room or studio, doesn't have balanced cables and separate amplifiers and can't afford $1000 dollars for a pair of genlecs.

That CONSUMER ...

 

[mojolicious]

Consumer means your average joe that doesn't have a treated room or studio, doesn't have balanced cables and separate amplifiers and can't afford $1000 dollars for a pair of genlecs.

That CONSUMER ...

Wait, you mean the CONSUMER who actually CONSUMES the PRODUCT that's been PRODUCED by the PRODUCER?!?

 

[John.B]

the weird thing is the nfl deal. how do those folks warrant an anti-trust exception when stuff like this happens?

Fixed.

 

[Sleepwalker71]

It's not about having an uncoloured sound. It's about having a speaker that allows you to create a mix that works across many different types of speaker. That same mix has to work in a car, in a night club and in your iPod headhones. The NS10 is an example of ****** monitor that because of its shiftiness forced mixers to work harder to get a good mix and somehow those mixes translated well a pop mixes for radio. The end result is that the NS10 was a "tool" used to solve a specific problem and not because it sounded good.

My point is that studio gear is used as a tool first and foremost and not because it sounds nice. I used the NS10's in my example because it's one of the most extreme examples of studio monitors not sounding particular good in terms of normal listening requirements yet became very useful in the 90's/2000's for producing music.

Your average joe consumer is playing music in an untreated room and will be using unbalanced cables etc... So will probably not benefit from the neutral sounding reference monitors that are used in studio's. Which is where companies like bose come into play, they make music equipment for the average joe and eq / hype the sound accordingly.

I just think the two markets are different, but because from a marketing angle professional gear Feels sexy to average joes so they get caught up in the hype and start buying gear that is not designed for them.

Nice discussion about the studio equipment, but a whole buzz is about small speakers with bluetooth connectivity (preferred to me) to be used with Apple products. I would never dare to connect it to any high-end.