Apple Reportedly Reassigned Some Marketing Staff to Work on Bolstering Sales of iPhone XS and iPhone XR

[I7guy]

But there aren't any competition for iOS devices, that's the thing. For very many people it's iOS or nothing at all. That attitude and brand loyalty has created a kind of monopoly. Apple has been acting lately just like a company with a monopoly, that's why the great interviews Steve Jobs did, which have been posted here many times, are very relevant today.

So yes, Apple is gouging. They know people have no where to go for iOS and thus they know the sky is the limit price wise for a lot of people. Just reading these forums show that clearly. It's not sustainable in the long rung, but at the moment all that seems to matter is short term profits.

Your conclusion doesn’t support the facts. Your supposition (I’m going to change things around) is along these lines of fallacious thinking...that Ford is gouging it’s customers in its f150 line because their customers cannot buy an f150 from anyone other than ford. That’s not how things work.

That interview with Steve Jobs today is a meme. With 250 million customers ine has to take things said in a tech forum with a grain of salt.

 

[9081094]

You're conflating very different concepts: greed and the value proposition of the products.

But more important, you made a factually incorrect statement:

>> Upping prices while there is no excuse when you compare the cost of the parts.​

This is the heart of the discussion. With respect to iPhones pricing, this has not happened. To repeat myself yet again, when you compare the teardown costs over the past few years, MSRP is shockingly aligned with exactly what the parts cost. And Apple's gross margins are shockingly consistent from quarter to quarter.

It's a false narrative that something has changed lately. Everyone has their own opinions about whether these new components and the "features" they bring with them are worthwhile. That's fine. (I've been a vocal critic on these forums of many of the same things you're talking about—so much so that I've been labeled an "Apple hater" which is really funny—but like I said, that's a very different topic than the one we are covering here.)

Again repeating myself, if you want to call Apple "greedy" under Steve Jobs, that's fine too. But let's stop pretending that something has happened, or that Apple's business culture has somehow changed. That's a nice story, but it's not one supported by the facts.

You've always paid a premium price for Apple products. In the mid nineties it almost killed Apple for the same reasons. There was a time when paying premium had a meaning: translate: you got the best the market had to offer.
I can't say the MacPro, MacBook Air, Macbook or MacBook Pro, MacMini, iPhones, iPads offer these anymore. The market has caught up with Apple in design and software. So those premium prices aren't compelling when you can do the same or more for half the price. No wonder Dell and HP saw their share rice while Apple took a 25% nose dive. No wonder Apple will give you the number of iPhones sold while most flagship Androids are even less expensive than the iPhone XR.

Apple's software and services are becoming more and more a joke. Google assistant eats Siri for breakfast as does Google maps vs Apple maps. Office for Mac or iPad make Apple equivalents a joke compared to them.

Why? Because there have only been incremental updates these last 8+ years.

Taking the maximum on profits and returning the minimum to your customers has taken its toll.

Greed:

 

[I7guy]

...Taking the maximum on profits and returning the minimum to your customers has taken its toll.

How so? Looking at every metric since 2011 tells a different story.

 

[john123]

You've always paid a premium price for Apple products. In the mid nineties it almost killed Apple for the same reasons. There was a time when paying premium had a meaning: translate: you got the best the market had to offer.
I can't say the MacPro, MacBook Air, Macbook or MacBook Pro, MacMini, iPhones, iPads offer these anymore. The market has caught up with Apple in design and software. So those premium prices aren't compelling when you can do the same or more for half the price. No wonder Dell and HP saw their share rice while Apple took a 25% nose dive. No wonder Apple will give you the number of iPhones sold while most flagship Androids are even less expensive than the iPhone XR.

Apple's software and services are becoming more and more a joke. Google assistant eats Siri for breakfast as does Google maps vs Apple maps. Office for Mac or iPad make Apple equivalents a joke compared to them.

Why? Because there have only been incremental updates these last 8+ years.

Taking the maximum on profits and returning the minimum to your customers has taken its toll.

Greed:

You're closer to reality than many of the people posting, but there's also a different interpretation of the data:

1) Apple's value proposition for its ecosystem has arguably never been stronger.
2) As a long time Apple user, you know that especially with laptops, but with other products too, Apple has almost never offered the best of the best with respect to performance. Even when the CPUs were bleeding edge, with only a couple generations as exceptions, the GPUs have always been something of a joke. There were always performance tradeoffs being made in the name of mobility and power consumption. While it's easy to get nostalgic for the good old days, let's not forget that those old days had plenty of reason to complain too.
3) Like you, I'm personally not too happy with some of the product lineup decisions in recent years, but it's very possible you and I simply aren't the target market anymore. I don't think shifting the focus makes Apple more or less greedy than they used to be, which is the heart of what I've been discussing here.

As someone who made a living as an equity trader and portfolio manager for some years, I read little into stock movements, other than that the consensus is Apple's valuation had moved well past the "cheap" category (something I've tried explaining to people on these boards for a couple years now). A correction is not synonymous with a failure...heck, it's often not even rational.

No doubt we're seeing fewer units sold and higher ASP. But at the end of the day:
1) If there weren't still a LOT of people out there willing to do that, that wouldn't be an optimal or even optimal strategy.
2) Given that gross margins remain the same, that means price simply scales up and down proportionally with cost. Whether the cost of that new stuff is worth it to you or me is kind of irrelevant.

 

[Baymowe335]

The XR should be priced competitive with the new midrange androids who offer the same with oled displays and more memory. The XR is more expensive over here than the Galaxy S9 and I don’t even mention the Huawei’s or various other brands. Any newcomer willing to buy a mobile phone would be very dumb to buy the iPhone unless you are trapped in apple’s expensive ecotrap.

Why?

iOS > Android
Xr Camera, best single lens camera
A12 > Any Silicon
Apple Support > Others
Apple Security > Others
Apple Privacy > Others

iPhones also hold their value much better than Androids and have a much longer usable life.

Let's wait to see the numbers before the speculation is just taken as fact. Apple is trying to sell iPhones. The marketing to do so has been pretty standard from all the facts. The price is still the price. Carrier discounts, website comparisons, and promotions are all part of a normal marketing strategy.

Supplier reports are never a good resource for predicting Apple sales as you never know what's going on behind the scenes with inventory management, supplier shifts, product stock, or renegotiated contract terms.

Apple is a supply chain master and the suppliers will bow to Apple's needs. If Apple wants to squeeze them, they will.

Apple just reported the best Q4 in history and guided for the best Q1 in history.

 

[DeepIn2U]

Lower the effin' price and you wont need marketing people.

YES!

In order to do that ... DROP all executive staff and their exhorbitant stock imbursement as a bonus. Have them earn a set bonus that remains the same every year. Nobody needs $21 million to sell iPhones, iMac's and MacBook Air/Pro's at this quality and perfection. Make them EARN it not expect it!
Use the returns of share price to build facilities in competing markets to have cheaper production costs build educational centers in 3rd world type countries (if even those still exist at that level any more.

 

[dilbert99]

You're conflating very different concepts: greed and the value proposition of the products.

But more important, you made a factually incorrect statement:

>> Upping prices while there is no excuse when you compare the cost of the parts.​

This is the heart of the discussion. With respect to iPhones pricing, this has not happened. To repeat myself yet again, when you compare the teardown costs over the past few years, MSRP is shockingly aligned with exactly what the parts cost. And Apple's gross margins are shockingly consistent from quarter to quarter.

It's a false narrative that something has changed lately. Everyone has their own opinions about whether these new components and the "features" they bring with them are worthwhile. That's fine. (I've been a vocal critic on these forums of many of the same things you're talking about—so much so that I've been labeled an "Apple hater" which is really funny—but like I said, that's a very different topic than the one we are covering here.)

Again repeating myself, if you want to call Apple "greedy" under Steve Jobs, that's fine too. But let's stop pretending that something has happened, or that Apple's business culture has somehow changed. That's a nice story, but it's not one supported by the facts.

It’s a fact that apple has been raising prices. Look at some of my posts for calculations. The last one is did, someone who was trying to refute the claim had no response.

You are welcome to post your own figures that show apple prices are not increasing for the iPhone

 

[AppleScruff1]

I think most of that marketing staff is posting here.

 

[cardfan]

Apple just needs to make the iOS ecosystem more sticky. Watch and airpods do this for me. Apple TV helps. But let’s be honest they could be doing much more in hardware. And much more in making these work even better together.

I should be buying apples version of a Sonos system made for Apple TV. I should be buying apples version of a harmony remote. A mirrorless camera based on iOS. A printer built on iOS. Scanner. WiFi mesh system. The list goes on.

 

[I7guy]

It’s a fact that apple has been raising prices. Look at some of my posts for calculations. The last one is did, someone who was trying to refute the claim had no response.

You are welcome to post your own figures that show apple prices are not increasing for the iPhone

Raising prices is disingenuous. Don't you think?

If last year I paid $3 for a dozen eggs and this year I'm paying $4 for the same eggs, you can say they raised the prices.

If last year I bought an 55 in xyz TV and that was the top model, and this year the top model is an 85 in oled with a built in 7.2 sound system that costs triple of the 55 inch tv, your claim is xyz manufacturer raised their prices. No they didn't. They priced the tv according to it's inherent value, same things car manufacturers do. Same thing apple does. There is no 6.5 oled 512gb in last years lineup to compare prices to.

 

[dilbert99]

Raising prices is disingenuous. Don't you think?

No I put out the facts before and they have raised prices.
Everyone knows it and anyone who says otherwise is being disingenuous.

 

[john123]

It’s a fact that apple has been raising prices. Look at some of my posts for calculations. The last one is did, someone who was trying to refute the claim had no response.

You are welcome to post your own figures that show apple prices are not increasing for the iPhone

“Prices” are not what matters, nor are they what I’ve been discussing. Do you complain that in 1968, 50 years ago, a loaf of bread cost 22 cents? I sure hope not, because there’s not a yeast shortage or a conspiracy by Bunny and Roman Meal...

What matters again is what the devices cost and whether Apple is doing anything different today.

I already did the numbers in another thread:

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...expected-demand.2155834/page-25#post-26850005
[doublepost=1544252901][/doublepost]

No I put out the facts before and they have raised prices.
Everyone knows it and anyone who says otherwise is being disingenuous.

Also, you completely didn’t address what i7guy said. Kind of funny because I hadn’t even read his post before posing my bread example.
[doublepost=1544253042][/doublepost]

YES!

In order to do that ... DROP all executive staff and their exhorbitant stock imbursement as a bonus. Have them earn a set bonus that remains the same every year. Nobody needs $21 million to sell iPhones, iMac's and MacBook Air/Pro's at this quality and perfection. Make them EARN it not expect it!
Use the returns of share price to build facilities in competing markets to have cheaper production costs build educational centers in 3rd world type countries (if even those still exist at that level any more.

Uhm. This may come as a shock to you, but Apple is a corporation and we are a primarily capitalist society. I’m not sure what the point of your post was. A description of your ideal world? That world would suck. Economics 101.

 

[Radon87000]

It’s a fact that apple has been raising prices. Look at some of my posts for calculations. The last one is did, someone who was trying to refute the claim had no response.

You are welcome to post your own figures that show apple prices are not increasing for the iPhone

Just give up. No point arguing with these 2. The simple fundamental concept that the flagship phone Apple is selling for $1200 is available from competitors at almost half price with the same quality and he same specs is completely lost. Apple’s taking the XR owners for a ride with no dual cameras at that price and an inferior display.

 

[dilbert99]

“Prices” are not what matters, nor are they what I’ve been discussing. Do you complain that in 1968, 50 years ago, a loaf of bread cost 22 cents? I sure hope not, because there’s not a yeast shortage or a conspiracy by Bunny and Roman Meal...

As a customer of Apple, price is exactly what matters.
As for the price of a loaf of bread, you are conflating inflation with raising prices.

 

[Gilligan's last elephant]

I think most of that marketing staff is posting here.

Certainly two of them :-}

Edit: sorry, certainly three of them

 

[9081094]

Why?

iOS > Android
Xr Camera, best single lens camera
A12 > Any Silicon
Apple Support > Others
Apple Security > Others
Apple Privacy > Others

iPhones also hold their value much better than Androids and have a much longer usable life.

Let's wait to see the numbers before the speculation is just taken as fact. Apple is trying to sell iPhones. The marketing to do so has been pretty standard from all the facts. The price is still the price. Carrier discounts, website comparisons, and promotions are all part of a normal marketing strategy.

Supplier reports are never a good resource for predicting Apple sales as you never know what's going on behind the scenes with inventory management, supplier shifts, product stock, or renegotiated contract terms.

Apple is a supply chain master and the suppliers will bow to Apple's needs. If Apple wants to squeeze them, they will.

Apple just reported the best Q4 in history and guided for the best Q1 in history.

iOS isn’t better anymore than Android. Android has become the same or better than iOS. The difference is minimal with android offering far better services it has become a non contest.

There’s almost no difference anymore. Considering the prices....
[doublepost=1544260341][/doublepost]

Raising prices is disingenuous. Don't you think?

If last year I paid $3 for a dozen eggs and this year I'm paying $4 for the same eggs, you can say they raised the prices.

If last year I bought an 55 in xyz TV and that was the top model, and this year the top model is an 85 in oled with a built in 7.2 sound system that costs triple of the 55 inch tv, your claim is xyz manufacturer raised their prices. No they didn't. They priced the tv according to it's inherent value, same things car manufacturers do. Same thing apple does. There is no 6.5 oled 512gb in last years lineup to compare prices to.

Apple has been raising prices. Period.

 

[I7guy]

iOS isn’t better anymore than Android. Android has become the same or better than iOS. The difference is minimal with android offering far better services it has become a non contest.

There’s almost no difference anymore. Considering the prices....
[doublepost=1544260341][/doublepost]
Apple has been raising period

No they haven’t as I just explained. But to each their own terminology. I guess. Btw. YouTube videos are another form of anecdotal discussions.

On android to me is a non-starter. Ymmv.
[doublepost=1544266147][/doublepost]

Just give up. No point arguing with these 2. The simple fundamental concept that the flagship phone Apple is selling for $1200 is available from competitors at almost half price with the same quality and he same specs is completely lost. Apple’s taking the XR owners for a ride with no dual cameras at that price and an inferior display.

Then buy the $600 competitors phone. Wait you didn’t... you bought the $1k competitors phone. Wonder why?
[doublepost=1544266487][/doublepost]

As a customer of Apple, price is exactly what matters.
As for the price of a loaf of bread, you are conflating inflation with raising prices.

No, value for the price matters in everything at least for me. I don’t like overpaying, which is a subjective value judgement different for everyone.

As I said previously things subjective go around in circles even more than people confusing fact with opinion.

And you are conflating the value proposition of a new model to raising prices, which is disingenuous in the least.
[doublepost=1544266635][/doublepost]

No I put out the facts before and they have raised prices.
Everyone knows it and anyone who says otherwise is being disingenuous.

Your facts are correct, your argument is flawed though, which is what is disingenuous.

 

[Radon87000]

No they haven’t as I just explained. But to each their own terminology. I guess. Btw. YouTube videos are another form of anecdotal discussions.

On android to me is a non-starter. Ymmv.
[doublepost=1544266147][/doublepost]
Then buy the $600 competitors phone. Wait you didn’t... you bought the $1k competitors phone. Wonder why?
[doublepost=1544266487][/doublepost]
No, value for the price matters in everything at least for me. I don’t like overpaying, which is a subjective value judgement different for everyone.

As I said previously things subjective go around in circles even more than people confusing fact with opinion.

And you are conflating the value proposition of a new model to raising prices, which is disingenuous in the least.
[doublepost=1544266635][/doublepost]
Your facts are correct, your argument is flawed though, which is what is disingenuous.

I did. I bought the $700 phone on the same day I took a look at the $1200 phone. Never been happier with my choice.

 

[john123]

As a customer of Apple, price is exactly what matters.
As for the price of a loaf of bread, you are conflating inflation with raising prices.

Guess what buddy? Inflation causes prices to rise and affects tech too. This is offset by progress and the fact that yesterday’s tech becomes cheaper to produce, but inflation still applies.

Apple charges more because it costs more to produce these devices.

I see you ignored all the math and numbers. Thanks for proving my point. You just want to whine.

 

[I7guy]

I did. I bought the $700 phone on the same day I took a look at the $1200 phone. Never been happier with my choice.

Yes, you got a price break on a $1000 phone that the manufacturer can’t seem to give away. But you made my point.

 

[john123]

Certainly two of them :-}

Edit: sorry, certainly three of them

Get real. Look at past posts. Doubtful an Apple marketing person would be as viciously critical of Apple products as I have.

I have a real problem with people making up facts, and I have no problems eviscerating those people publicly. Facts and opinions are different things.
[doublepost=1544277152][/doublepost]

Just give up. No point arguing with these 2. The simple fundamental concept that the flagship phone Apple is selling for $1200 is available from competitors at almost half price with the same quality and he same specs is completely lost. Apple’s taking the XR owners for a ride with no dual cameras at that price and an inferior display.

It is HILARIOUSLY ironic that you say anyone else has “lost” the point. What you typed about competitors was never in dispute by me. You just keep missing the point—perhaps deliberately?—because you wish to whine.

I’m gonna be a pretentious prick here and say that I realize very few people have my intelligence, my education, and my career experience. But man, these basic concepts are not hard.

 

[Gilligan's last elephant]

Get real. Look at past posts. Doubtful an Apple marketing person would be as viciously critical of Apple products as I have.

I have a real problem with people making up facts, and I have no problems eviscerating those people publicly. Facts and opinions are different things.
.

Why do you think this was directed at you?
Mind you, if the cap fits, wear it

 

[john123]

Why do you think this was directed at you?
Mind you, if the cap fits, wear it

Counting.

Also, even ignoring me, why would you discount the possibility that other people might have views that don't match your own?

 

[Gilligan's last elephant]

Counting.

Also, even ignoring me, why would you discount the possibility that other people might have views that don't match your own?

Why do you think people are referring to you when they are not?

 

[john123]

Why do you think people are referring to you when they are not?

What part of "counting" was unclear? I looked at who posted what over the last several pages.

I actually see very few pro-Apple posts in those pages—from anyone, actually—aside from opinions about the value of the iOS experience and ecosystems. That certainly happens on here all the time, but hasn't been the direction this has been going. People are simply falling back to basic facts and logic.

On the other side, however, I see a lot of people ignoring facts (but pretending they aren't) and engaging in emotional reasoning and calling Apple all kinds of bad names. Criticize them for what they do wrong—there's plenty to go around—but at least keep the critiques based on facts.