Apple Retail Stores Making Preparations for OS X Lion Launch Next Week?

[AidenShaw]

Remember Vista???

Yes - it was quite stable except for a couple of known issues. (VMware Workstation could crash it instantly, and the NVidia drivers were shaky for multiple cards/monitors at first.)

After a few Patch Tuesdays, it was fine. By the time Service Pack 1 arrived, it was only about a 20 MiB download if your system was running automatic updates - most of SP1 had already been released in the monthly fixes.

 

[ghostface147]

I'll be waiting to see what the early reviews are and if I can do a fresh install without having to upgrade from SL. Also, even if those two things are possible, I am still going to wait until iOS 5.0 is released. I don't want to load a fresh install with beta Xcode, iTunes and the like.

 

[Darth.Titan]

I'm actually concerned about Lion's release. I just have a feeling that the App Store-only distribution is going to bite them in the rear. Let me preface this post by saying I've installed every iteration of OS X (except Cheetah) at the 10.x.0 version and have never had a problem... until this one.

Even though I am a developer, I generally avoid the OS X betas until they reach GM status. A few days ago I downloaded the GM and installed as thousands of others probably will - by update. I had a few fairly large problems:

• I have a first gen unibody Macbook Pro. After the update to Lion, I discovered that I couldn't open images or view movie files unless I switched the GPU from the 9400M to the 9600M GT in Energy Saver Preferences. Since for normal use I usually use the lower powered GPU to improve battery life, this was an issue.
• My trackpad drivers went wonky. When I clicked to drag, I couldn't put what I was dragging down. It was like the button stuck on when dragging, and no amount of futzing with the trackpad settings helped. A fairly major issue.
• Worst of all, the Lion installer wiped out my Boot Camp partition. The partition itself was still there, but it had been reformatted to FAT and was empty. If this happens to a bunch of people at launch, Apple will have hell to pay.

Due to my issues, I created a bootable thumb drive, cloned my hard drive to back up my files, and did a clean format and install. This resolved all my issues. Now I just have to reinstall all my software and do a reinstall of Windows 7 and all that software.

Lion does seem quite nice, but if the upgrade causes even a small percentage of early adopters to experience the problems I did, it will definitely be bad for Apple's reputation.

 

[Nomadski]

1.People still needing rosetta need to move in the 21st Century.
2.Adobe CS5.5 and the flash plug-in run just fine.
3.Java is still very much supported, just no longer installed and maintained/updated by apple.
4.Grab an apple TV.

They have removed Front Row in Lion?? WTF?

Wont be purchasing Lion then, my wife would kill me if she couldn't sit and watch trailers and films in bed on her macbook.

Very odd decision.

 

[res1233]

Honestly, it's nothing major over Snow Leopard but it is definitely a nice upgrade even if the shine wears off after a few days.

I have 3 words for you. OpenGL 3.2 stack. As apps upgrade to it, I think we'll have plenty to play around with over the next few months. It's going to be pretty amazing in terms of game performance.

Yes - it was quite stable except for a couple of known issues. (VMware Workstation could crash it instantly, and the NVidia drivers were shaky for multiple cards/monitors at first.)

After a few Patch Tuesdays, it was fine. By the time Service Pack 1 arrived, it was only about a 20 MiB download if your system was running automatic updates - most of SP1 had already been released in the monthly fixes.

I find that Vista's biggest problem was the bloat. I literally gained about 10 FPS in most games just upgrading to windows 7. It did crash every now and then, but a horribly written app is capable of doing that on any system.

 

[MCIowaRulz]

Why does Apple see the need to upgrade the RAM beyond what comes with the machines? 4GB isn't enough?

 

[mcmlxix]

I'm simply cautious by nature, so I'll wait until the first point release. I'll also check to see if all of my apps are supported. You can do that here: http://roaringapps.com/apps:table

It's also certain that if the initial release is 99.9% flawless, those 0.1% negatively impacted will make 100% of the noise.

Question: the article says that the demo machines in the stores will be getting a RAM bump in advance. For those who've tested Lion, is it that much more memory intensive? I have 4 GB so I guess I should be fine in any case, although I've been known to push that.

 

[LarryC]

I have to say that I am in the camp of those that would prefer a physical disc. I would gladly pay extra for it. What bothers me more is this new thing about needing to have .6 installled to install .7. I suppose you will have to have .7 in order to install .8 when it arrives. I have always liked the idea of a clean install. Oh well, I suppose that is all in the past now. The whole thing makes me want to buy a new iMac or MBP with 10.6 and stay there until this foolishness is abandoned and things go back to the way they used to be!

 

[Jerome Morrow]

I have 3 words for you. OpenGL 3.2 stack. As apps upgrade to it, I think we'll have plenty to play around with over the next few months. It's going to be pretty amazing in terms of game performance.

You are talking about game performance when they can't get one lousy animation not to lag. Talk about optimism ...

 

[cozmot]

I'm afraid. Might wait for the first update.

 

[res1233]

You are talking about game performance when they can't get one lousy animation not to lag. Talk about optimism ...

Poorly coded animations are not directly related to the new OpenGL stack, however I do see your point. Lion will not be perfect upon release and we'd be fools to think it would be what with all the under the hood changes. Only testing by the masses can ever truly debug anything with this many lines of code. However, for existing well-coded apps, the new OpenGL stack WILL increase performance. They removed a significant amount of bloat from the stack, which was hampering performance.

There are also a few more geeky optimizations that Apple has made within Lion via xcode 4.1 and LLVM/Clang that will increase performance once apps begin using them, although it will take awhile.

 

[Yaboze]

You clearly haven't tried Lion golden master. I've been using it for about a week and haven't had ONE crash since. Nor did i find any significant bugs.

Yeah, I had no problems with SL and I bought that Day 1.

 

[AidenShaw]

I find that Vista's biggest problem was the bloat.

Agree completely. Vista on a minimum configuration could be a dog. My systems were well configured (especially lots of memory and a good graphics card) which certainly helped my experience.

 

[Bubba Satori]

Remember Vista????

Remember Leopard????

 

[Stella]

That is true especially with a big company like Apple. If they even reach 50% of their customers then they would have succeeded.

If only 50% of customer's can buy your product, I'd say thats pretty poor.

More, it doesn't mean all those 50% of customers are actually going to *buy* the product!

 

[Jerome Morrow]

Poorly coded animations are not directly related to the new OpenGL stack, however I do see your point. Lion will not be perfect upon release and we'd be fools to think it would be what with all the under the hood changes.

Some things should be perfect upon release however. So far it's unusable on anything with ATI 2400XT or 2600 Pro and GMA [whatever].

If it's unusable how are you going to use it? That's the problem here. I know they will improve it, i know it will be good (it has potential to be great), but, man, waiting 2-4 months every time they release new OS to actually make it work tires me.

 

[3rd Doctor]

I have to say that I am in the camp of those that would prefer a physical disc. I would gladly pay extra for it. What bothers me more is this new thing about needing to have .6 installled to install .7. I suppose you will have to have .7 in order to install .8 when it arrives. I have always liked the idea of a clean install. Oh well, I suppose that is all in the past now. The whole thing makes me want to buy a new iMac or MBP with 10.6 and stay there until this foolishness is abandoned and things go back to the way they used to be!

You can create an OS disk yourself once you've downloaded it and do a clean install.

 

[res1233]

Some things should be perfect upon release however. So far it's unusable on anything with ATI 2400XT or 2600 Pro and GMA [whatever].

If it's unusable how are you going to use it? That's the problem here. I now they will improve it, i know it will be good (it has potential to be great), but, man, waiting 2-4 months every time they release new OS to actually make it work tires me.

I don't think any OS is usable on a GMA. In fact, SNB's integrated GPU (intel 3k) is the first intel GPU to be usable beyond SD video and runescape (at low settings) (over-exagerating a bit, but not by much). Also, as far as i can tell, no major revision to an OS is ever bug-free upon release, however Apple does a fairly good job. I've been an early adopter of both Leopard and Snow Leopard, and have had no major problems with either. Every update I'd see a list of fixes and be like "huh?". Most bugs with new versions of OS X in my experience are uncommon.

 

[ps45]

Here's how it works, in my industry at least. You provide details of your workflow to a company that insures completion of the overall production. As part of this, you agree to use the same version of the tools throughout the job, and you don't change midproject. You never use betas in a live project, but other than that at no point are they concerned with whether you are using up-to-date tools or tried-and-tested tools. In between projects, you are free to upgrade the the most recent, and why wouldn't you? You can do a test yourself to see if your tools work, and if you're sensible you have CCC'd your old installation.

Well guess what, 10.7.0 is not beta software. Why are you happy to go straight with 10.7.1? Don't you want to wait until that has been tested, to see whether it has introduced new problems? In fact, now that Snow Leopard has evidently been perfected, perhaps it's finally time to make that leap from 10.5 to 10.6?

This whole thing about people thinking their work is too important to use new software, and that somehow other fools need to test first is just people trying to make themselves sound important. In the real world, we update, but take precautions.

If you ask me, if you aren't able to verify that your tools work for you, have contingencies, and use the latest tools at your disposal, then I have doubts about your professionalism, and I still wait with interest to here some concrete examples.

 

[BlackHole21]

Apple is better in every way.

 

[bbeagle]

The whole thing makes me want to buy a new iMac or MBP with 10.6 and stay there until this foolishness is abandoned and things go back to the way they used to be!

They won't go back the way they used to be. This is the new era in Personal Computers for the masses.

Maybe you're turning into this guy: 'Dang nab-it! Lousy kids! Get off of my lawn!'

 

[mrlhxc]

Buying Lion

I have a 2010 13" MBP, i'm gonna buy/download Lion. Wait for all the horrors to be over, then probably install for scratch as much as possible. I've heard that you will still need your 10.6 disk, is this still true? I want a clean install even though i know OSX / Unix is way better at system upgrades than a Windows system, i just want all the junk files and crap out of the system. I really like the Mac community, i've had my fair bit of issues with 10.6 and if you know how to search and use the terminal it's not so bad. Nothing major broke, just bugs that crept up.

 

[*LTD*]

Remember Leopard????

Yeah. Great OS. As in there wasn't a mass effort to downgrade to the previous version that was by then 5 years old.

 

[winston1236]

Why "sell" it in a retail store if its only available as a digital download?

yea i was wondering the same thing, mac app store only remember

 

[Jerome Morrow]

I don't think any OS is usable on a GMA. In fact, SNB's integrated GPU (intel 3k) is the first intel GPU to be usable beyond SD video and runescape (at low settings) (over-exagerating a bit, but not by much). Also, as far as i can tell, no major revision to an OS is ever bug-free upon release, however Apple does a fairly good job. I've been an early adopter of both Leopard and Snow Leopard, and have had no major problems with either. Every update I'd see a list of fixes and be like "huh?". Most bugs with new versions of OS X in my experience are uncommon.

Well i'm able to watch 1080p with Plex on a MacBook 3,1 with GMA 950 without any problems and Snow Leopard UI is very responsive with it. Actually Snow Leopard is more responsive with GMA 950 without dedicated memory (GPU itself sucks) than Lion with ATI 24xx, 26xx with 128/256 it's own memory and way better GPU

That's not bugs, that's worse. Hell even Vista was ok on GMA 950, Windows 7 was ok too, Linux with all the mambo jambo enabled works fine too.

I'd like to justify this, but i can't.

P.S. It's not all bread and butter on the latest i7 iMac i recently bought too and by the time they release it (if nothing is changed, fixed) there will be thousands of people having same problems.
P.S. I went back in Time Machine to the Snow Leopard GM to make sure i'm not talking out of my ass and indeed it's way better than Lion. it has graphics problems too, but nothing like Lion on my old iMac.