Apple Sold Fewest Macs in Any Quarter Since 2010 as Nearly Entire Lineup Was Outdated

[Peperino]

You know that because.... you decided it's true?

Because of true facts.
Mac Pro - was a complete failure
Macbooks Pro- Another failure
Mac Mini - Not update in how many years now?
iMac- The external design has not been changed in 8 years
iMac Pro- Despite the prohibite price, you cannot upgrade the internal HD.

I can keep going but these FACTS, should tell you how much Apple cares about the entire computer line up...

 

[DevNull0]

If Apple wants to put more efforts in what makes them the most money, it's not surprising the other products get neglected which results in declining sales.

Apple's R&D budget passed $10 billion in 2016 and has been continuing to have double digit growth. In 2011 under Jobs it was $2 billion.

With that kind of budget, how have they not been able to refresh the mac mini or pro in so many years? How are they only able to release gimp ultra-books with year old hardware on launch day?

Dell has a whole portfolio of modern machines they constantly keep up to date. And their entire annual profit is less than Apple's annual R&D budget.

I would love to know where that R&D money is going, but it sure isn't into any products that have seen the light of day (unless Apple design management are the most incompetent people on the planet).

 

[MacsRuleOthersDrool]

Guess what!? All of nVidia's current lineup of top tier GPUs support DP 1.3,1.4.

The 1080Ti I have in my hackintosh will crush every single GPU Apple is currently offering in any of their computers.

But they wouldn't when the 2016 MBP was released; plus, the biggest thing is that the TB3 spec doesn't support DP 1.3 or above. Also, the AMD crushes the NVidia in terms of current-consumption.

Hardly fair about your Desktop-Class 1080Ti. Even the Mobile 1080 can't hold a candle to that GPU:

http://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Nvidia-GTX-1080-Ti-vs-Nvidia-GTX-1080-Mobile/3918vsm165564

 

[Sabelonada]

Um.

1. Way Overpriced: No. Just not "junk".

2. Outdated Hardware: You're kidding, right? A CPU that is barely off the Development Bench, an SSD that is best-in-class, More I/O bandwidth and flexibility than ANY other laptop (find me another laptop that can break-out its I/O into FIFTY-TWO SIMULTANEOUS Ports!), etc.

3. 100% Non-Upgradeable: That's a fact; but it is also a fact for a growing-number of NON-Apple laptops; because the numbers show that MOST users just buy a new machine rather than Upgrade; so why make a laptop LESS reliable by including sockets?

4. Same Bad Keyboard Feel: That's an opinion, and one that is curiously NOT shared by most actual OWNERS.

5. Useless Touchbar: Again, your OPINION. It OBVIOUSLY isn't "Useless", per se. In fact, just as a "Jog" control for FCPX and LPX, it is worth its keep.

6. Still Dongle Hell: Only if you make it so. Buy any one of the dozens of Mac-Compatible single, $50 multiport Docks on Amazon and be happy!

7. Still No Mag-Safe: So what? A quick Amazon search finds multiple third-party solutions, some as cheap as $10. Get over it.

8. No way to connect iPhone: That's just a lie. Get a USB-C to Lightning Cable and be happy!

9. Bad minimum specs: You haven't been laptop-shopping much, have you? EVERYONE has a "budget" model.

10. Did you say way-overpriced?: Yes, you did; but you didn't provide any PROOF of SIMILARLY-SPEC-ED Laptops, now DID you?

The Defense Rests...

2. The iMac is a generation behind. The remainer of the MacBook line is likewise out dated. The Retina display was class leading when it appeared, now it's trailing.

3. For a laptop labelled "Pro" the inability to upgrade the memory at least is a huge factor.

6. This is a direct result of the focus on thinness. What good is a thin laptop if I still have to lug about a dock? It defeats the purpose.

 

[Peperino]

Um.

1. Way Overpriced: No. Just not "junk".

2. Outdated Hardware: You're kidding, right? A CPU that is barely off the Development Bench, an SSD that is best-in-class, More I/O bandwidth and flexibility than ANY other laptop (find me another laptop that can break-out its I/O into FIFTY-TWO SIMULTANEOUS Ports!), etc.

3. 100% Non-Upgradeable: That's a fact; but it is also a fact for a growing-number of NON-Apple laptops; because the numbers show that MOST users just buy a new machine rather than Upgrade; so why make a laptop LESS reliable by including sockets?

4. Same Bad Keyboard Feel: That's an opinion, and one that is curiously NOT shared by most actual OWNERS.

5. Useless Touchbar: Again, your OPINION. It OBVIOUSLY isn't "Useless", per se. In fact, just as a "Jog" control for FCPX and LPX, it is worth its keep.

6. Still Dongle Hell: Only if you make it so. Buy any one of the dozens of Mac-Compatible single, $50 multiport Docks on Amazon and be happy!

7. Still No Mag-Safe: So what? A quick Amazon search finds multiple third-party solutions, some as cheap as $10. Get over it.

8. No way to connect iPhone: That's just a lie. Get a USB-C to Lightning Cable and be happy!

9. Bad minimum specs: You haven't been laptop-shopping much, have you? EVERYONE has a "budget" model.

10. Did you say way-overpriced?: Yes, you did; but you didn't provide any PROOF of SIMILARLY-SPEC-ED Laptops, now DID you?

The Defense Rests...

Your defense is like an 8 year old...
You are trying to defend the indefensible or you just work for Apple.

You are telling us that we should pay $2400.00 which is already way expensive, for a Macbook that ships with 256gb HD (which is a joke) and in addition of overpaying we also need to spend our time and money for other solutions that are NOT included... such as Mag-Safe, a Dock and a lighting cable. Not providing a way to connect your own iPhone which is actually the best selling product by Apple, shows how poor the design is. By the way... I know how to search in Amazon...what I do not understand is you trying to make ridiculous excuses, in Apple's behalf for what they are trying to sell us as a "Pro" Machine... If you tell me that is an Air, then OK.
By the way, having a socket, does not make a computer less reliable. Having soldered components is actually much less reliable and more easy to fail. This is a lame excuse for Apple to charge more for repairs or upgrades and make the Macbooks easier to fail. This is so ridiculous like everytime you need to change the tires in a car or upgrade them, you need to change the entire car.

So everybody will need to pay an extra 300 for a useless touchbar than only FCP users will use?
The touchbar has been a poor excuse to increase the price an extra $300.00. And you clearly see that since they did not provided any updated option without it.

The reason, that Apple has been selling less, is because of their poor design. Users vote with their wallet and are tired of buying overpriced badly designed Apple computers. So much so that lot of Pro users are revamping old Mac Pros (grated cheese ones) or doing Hackintoshes. Just read what many of the users are posting...

 

[Tozovac]

And Apple would sell about 2,000 extra units worldwide. Honest. And for that, they have to design a different PC Board, different CNC programs for their case-miilling machines, different logistics for the supply-chain and Contract Manufacturers, additional SKUs for a low-selling variant (you did say30% higher price, right?), etc. etc.

You're right, that would cost a lot of moneys to develop, something that Apple has too few of in the bank.

It's the same reason they discontinued the 17 MacBook Pro: The "numbers" just didn't make sense.

Apple isn't stupid: If they thought for one minute that the general public (not just a few petulant whiners on the interwebs) REALLY wanted Expandable RAM or SSD, they would make that product in a New York Minute. Their shareholders and Board of Directors would DEMAND it.

But they don't; so they won't.

You're a pretty smart guy if you KNOW what Apple thinks and exactly how few customers would be willing to buy serviceable/upgradeable laptops. Kudos!

And obviously, it isn't hurting their bottom line, eh?

I've said it many times - who's to say they couldn't be doing BETTER by offering a more expensive option with more function for the user.

BTW, there are a LOT of non-Apple laptops with Soldered-In RAM, and some even with soldered-in SSDs. Get used to it.

That's an easy out. Yes, Macs & PC's are so easily to decide to switch in & out of.

You should be sure to vote here:
https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...ore-for-an-upgradeable-mba-mbp-or-mb.2130703/

 

[Zdigital2015]

I'm just saying the 2017 release replaced the 2014 iMac.

You forgot the Late 2015 iMacs that were Broadwell- and Skylake-based, which replaced the Late 2014 iMacs and Early 2015 iMacs, which were Haswell-Based(some Devil's Canyon/Haswell Refresh, at that).

 

[bkkcanuck8]

2. The iMac is a generation behind. The remainer of the MacBook line is likewise out dated. The Retina display was class leading when it appeared, now it's trailing.

3. For a laptop labelled "Pro" the inability to upgrade the memory at least is a huge factor.

6. This is a direct result of the focus on thinness. What good is a thin laptop if I still have to lug about a dock? It defeats the purpose.

3. Get over the 'Pro' label - it is marketing. There is almost no market for 'pro' laptops (running Xeon mobile). 'Pro's generally know what they need memory wise, and if you are on needing to upgrade to keep on the bleeding edge ... memory upgrades for a laptop make absolutely no difference. For a Pro needing memory, I am going to max it out when I purchase it. It is usually non-pros that are trying to nickel and dime and then worrying about upgrading in a years time.

The iMac is a generation behind, and I would wait... but I expect the refresh to take place in October ... which should mean the new generation of Intel processors (9xxxK) should be available for use in the iMac.

 

[Zdigital2015]

Your defense is like an 8 year old...
You are trying to defend the indefensible or you just work for Apple.

You are telling us that we should pay $2400.00 which is already way expensive, for a Macbook that ships with 256gb HD (which is a joke) and in addition of overpaying we also need to spend our time and money for other solutions that are NOT included... such as Mag-Safe, a Dock and a lighting cable. Not providing a way to connect your own iPhone which is actually the best selling product by Apple, shows how poor the design is. By the way... I know how to search in Amazon...what I do not understand is you trying to make ridiculous excuses, in Apple's behalf for what they are trying to sell us as a "Pro" Machine... If you tell me that is an Air, then OK.
By the way, having a socket, does not make a computer less reliable. Having soldered components is actually much less reliable and more easy to fail. This is a lame excuse for Apple to charge more for repairs or upgrades and make the Macbooks easier to fail. This is so ridiculous like everytime you need to change the tires in a car or upgrade them, you need to change the entire car.

So everybody will need to pay an extra 300 for a useless touchbar than only FCP users will use?
The touchbar has been a poor excuse to increase the price an extra $300.00. And you clearly see that since they did not provided any updated option without it.

The reason, that Apple has been selling less, is because of their poor design. Users vote with their wallet and are tired of buying overpriced badly designed Apple computers. So much so that lot of Pro users are revamping old Mac Pros (grated cheese ones) or doing Hackintoshes. Just read what many of the users are posting...

Not sure why 256GB of flash storage running at 3.2GB/s Read and 2.2GB/s Write is such a joke to you, but the Dell XPS 15" equipped with Coffee Lake H-Series comes with the exact same size in an m.2 NVMe blade. Some users prefer a smaller system disk, because all their storage is external. Some don't, and Apple gives customers the option to go all the way up to 4TB of flash storage.

You do not need a dock, but you might need to buy a few new cables. If you do not want to buy a Lightning to USB-C cable, which you can use with a 2016-2018 MacBook Pro's charger and an iOS device, then you can always sync your iPhone via wireless.

A new cable and new connector is not a poor design, it is called progress. Would you prefer that Apple had stuck with the 30-pin Dock Connector for the iPhone and iPad? Or never included a faster interface than Firewire 400 and USB 2.0 on its computers?

Whether having a socket for DRAM and SSD upgrades is more or less reliable can certainly be debated, Apple chose to solder them to the motherboard because then it has a reasonable chance in guaranteeing the minimum performance of what it sells to the user. With Dell and other manufacturers, who source from different vendors, even within the same product line, you might get a Toshiba SSD in one Dell XPS 15 or a Samsung SSD depending on what day of the week you order. It might be flexible, but it sure isn't a consistent experience.

Failure rates among PC manufacturers and Apple will tell us if Apple has made the right choice, but they have been doing this for a while with their various product lines, and I have not heard that Apple is having more returns due to fauly DRAM and flash storage.

Plenty of auto manufacturers would love to figure out how to seal the engine bay shut and never have to replace tires on a car, leaving us to replace the whole car once it dies. Volvo was the first to concept that, they will not be the last.

The TouchBar does not add $300 to the cost of the MBP, at least not the 15". The 2015 base started at $1999, but had no discrete GPU, which would have added at least $200 to the price. You can figure $200 maximum for the TouchBar, maybe less. Some people love it, some people hate it, but it is what it is. I will mark you down in the "Hate It" category.

Apple has not been selling less due to poor design. They have been selling less because they have 3 product lines that have not been upgraded in 3 years or more (Mac mini, MacBook Air and Mac Pro). Hopefully, along with an overdue upgrade for the iMac, these lines will be refreshed and Apple will provide some much overdue commitment to the Mac.

 

[dadouney]

I’ve needed a new MacBook Air for years. Mine is 6+ years old. The current product is barely an upgrade of my 6 year old unit at the same price.

Current MacBook pros are WAY too expensive for what they are. Same for the MacBook.

Im holding off for an updated MacBook Air.

Maybe Apple can finally throw us a phone and not gouge on pricing.

Same with my MacBookPro Mid-2012. Apple's buyer since last century... my next machine will be a Linux PC.

Listen Cook, we deserve better that these outdated and overpriced sh...its!

 

[MacsRuleOthersDrool]

2. The iMac is a generation behind. The remainer of the MacBook line is likewise out dated. The Retina display was class leading when it appeared, now it's trailing.

3. For a laptop labelled "Pro" the inability to upgrade the memory at least is a huge factor.

6. This is a direct result of the focus on thinness. What good is a thin laptop if I still have to lug about a dock? It defeats the purpose.

2. The iMac was just upgraded with a then-new CPU about a year ago. Hardly "a generation behind". And of COURSE the MacBook Pro is anything BUT "outdated".

3. Others are selling laptops with soldered RAM, too; even "Pro" ones. And besides, with a minimum RAM complement at 16 GB in the new MacBook Pro, all but the MOST demanding applications will be just fine. Plus, again, any decent repair station should be able to add/change soldered RAM at this point.

6. "Lug about"? Pretty interesting choice of verbs there. But Please... 90% of these Docks are, as I said, about the size of a dollar-bill (or smaller), and weigh a couple of OUNCES. Some even attach straight to the side of the MacBook. Sounds to me like a pretty small price to pay for that incredible multifunction I/O.

 

[phrehdd]

If you can afford a Mac Pro, high end iMac or Macbook Pro, chances are you'll also not only can afford to by an iphone and/or iPad but will. The inverse however does not hold true and Apple knows this. This might suggest why they (Apple) at this time don't care if the numbers on sales are that low due partially in part to pricing. Rather, they expect low sales for now.

 

[gadgetgirl85]

Been holding off on buying an iMac until SSD is standard. Hoping it will happen this round.

 

[Sabelonada]

Been holding off on buying an iMac until SSD is standard. Hoping it will happen this round.

Alas, it will probably be soldered in if the last two releases are any indication.

 

[threesixty360]

Why do people keep forgetting Jobs’ famous trucks vs cars analogy?
He spelled it out long ago. PC sales will decline as people just dont need trucks as much.
So Apple is going even more high end with the trucks to make its margins and naturally that means fewer users to supply to and the business cannot (or will not) focus on a relatively small user base.

The noise from the mac heads just completely outweighs the reality of world we live in. For the last 10yrs I feel like I’ve heard constant moaning. Whether it be final cut x to Mac Pro to the keyboard. And all of it seems like the end of the world for Apple. Yet they are now the 1st Trillion dollar company!

They must be doing a hell of a lot right to get there. Yet you wouldnt think it from the press.
I feel like the 1 thing the Cook has learnt from Jobs it seems is “focus”. For all the noise, all the anti apple etc.. They just keep doing what they believe in. And it won’t be every ones cup of tea but its a winning strategy.

When you start pandering to the everyone’s opinion and have people telling you to go back to when it was good for them (thicker MacBook pro’s!) ... you end up like (Steve ballers) Microsoft and Dell and BlackBerry and Nokia. You just die.

 

[Abazigal]

They must be doing a hell of a lot right to get there. Yet you wouldnt think it from the press.

To be fair, Apple has had its fair share of missteps throughout the years, but there’s no denying what a juggernaut of impact it still is.

I think that's what a lot of criticism targeted at Apple don't get - they focus myopically at that one flaw or problem, without considering the bigger picture.

 

[avkills]

But they wouldn't when the 2016 MBP was released; plus, the biggest thing is that the TB3 spec doesn't support DP 1.3 or above. Also, the AMD crushes the NVidia in terms of current-consumption.

Hardly fair about your Desktop-Class 1080Ti. Even the Mobile 1080 can't hold a candle to that GPU:

http://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Nvidia-GTX-1080-Ti-vs-Nvidia-GTX-1080-Mobile/3918vsm165564

Yeah but the 2016 MBP was using a "hardware" hack in order to do it; and it didn't do it very well.

Initially TB3 did not support DP 1.3 and above....but....

On 8 January 2018, Intel announced a product refresh (codenamed Titan Ridge) which enhanced robustness and added support for USB 3.1 Gen 2 (10Gbit/s) and DisplayPort 1.4. The new peripheral controller is now capable of acting as a USB sink (compatible with regular USB-C ports).

So pretty much any modern laptop with TB3 is going to be using the Titan Ridge chip.

Of course the desktop part crushes the laptop part. I will give you a big hint; the people asking for more GPU power don't care that it drains battery life; and the main reason is they want CUDA support for scientific stuff, and content creation.

FYI current consumption is the wrong term, what you mean is watts. And I am pretty sure that is what automatic GPU switching is for.

 

[throAU]

I think it's a shame, because there's never been a better time to be a non-Windows PC. "Platform independence" has won the day. Everything has been moving to the cloud. Full office suites are available as web apps. Even Adobe's suite is web-based, in the cloud.

I think the non-windows platform Apple want people to migrate to is IOS.

And eventually i think people will gladly switch to it, on something like a tablet with some AR glasses.

BUT, in the mean-time until that is a more viable proposition, they need to stop screwing with the mac and making it less useful for doing the things an ipad can't do.
[doublepost=1533258877][/doublepost]

How do you know?

Exactly.

I'd say the reason for that is that anyone with an existing mac hasn't had much reason to bother upgrading as the hardware is not really an upgrade.

People without Macs have no baseline hardware to run, so it makes sense that most of their sales are from new users.

Existing users see no desirable hardware to upgrade to.

 

[njnj2000]

User: Hey, Apple. Are you gonna update your computers?
Apple: What's a computer?

 

[throAU]

4. Same Bad Keyboard Feel: That's an opinion, and one that is curiously NOT shared by most actual OWNERS.

Can't be bothered responding to the rest of your post, but perhaps the "Actual owners" are only owners because they can tolerate the keyboard.

Plenty of people, myself included are not owners because of the keyboard and its associated reliability issues.

In over 30 years of using computers, i have never had a failed keyboard that wasn't due to liquid ingress (i.e., my fault).

The problem of "design a keyboard that works" was solved over 30 years ago.

50% of the owners of late model macbook pros i am in personal contact with have had keyboard issues. The first one to experience them was with a first gen 12" macbook and he went through three machines inside of a month before he gave up and got a 2015 MBP 13, because he couldn't afford to keep dropping into the apple store for replacements and wasting time transferring his data (he was working as a freelance IT consultant at the time).
[doublepost=1533259544][/doublepost]

Apple's R&D budget passed $10 billion in 2016 and has been continuing to have double digit growth. In 2011 under Jobs it was $2 billion.

With that kind of budget, how have they not been able to refresh the mac mini or pro in so many years? How are they only able to release gimp ultra-books with year old hardware on launch day?

Because they don't care. Give me $10,000 and I'll revamp the Mac Pro with a prototype that will blow anything Apple has out of the water.

It isn't an issue of R&D budget, it's an issue of priorities.

 

[avkills]

Because they don't care. Give me $10,000 and I'll revamp the Mac Pro with a prototype that will blow anything Apple has out of the water.

It isn't an issue of R&D budget, it's an issue of priorities.

I am pretty sure it could be done for under 10k.

 

[DevNull0]

Because they don't care. Give me $10,000 and I'll revamp the Mac Pro with a prototype that will blow anything Apple has out of the water.

It isn't an issue of R&D budget, it's an issue of priorities.

Which is exactly my point. And the only reason it should be as expensive as $10,000 is if you want to expense a trip to Shenzen to view the assembly line or something.

Yet, there are so many here who insist that Apple cares about the Macs because "Timmy says so". Apple could not possibly be more clear that they don't want to be in the computer business anymore.

 

[throAU]

I am pretty sure it could be done for under 10k.

Easily.

But i'm not talking the components cost, I'm talking about designing an enclosure and doing a BOM and making it look nice whilst also being functional.

 

[Macintoshrumors]

Because of true facts.
Mac Pro - was a complete failure
Macbooks Pro- Another failure
Mac Mini - Not update in how many years now?
iMac- The external design has not been changed in 8 years
iMac Pro- Despite the prohibite price, you cannot upgrade the internal HD.

I can keep going but these FACTS, should tell you how much Apple cares about the entire computer line up...

Subjective criticism are not facts. Those products were not failures.
[doublepost=1533267227][/doublepost]

I think the non-windows platform Apple want people to migrate to is IOS.

And eventually i think people will gladly switch to it, on something like a tablet with some AR glasses.

BUT, in the mean-time until that is a more viable proposition, they need to stop screwing with the mac and making it less useful for doing the things an ipad can't do.
[doublepost=1533258877][/doublepost]

Exactly.

I'd say the reason for that is that anyone with an existing mac hasn't had much reason to bother upgrading as the hardware is not really an upgrade.

People without Macs have no baseline hardware to run, so it makes sense that most of their sales are from new users.

Existing users see no desirable hardware to upgrade to.

Probably because the headwear last forever.

 

[bkkcanuck8]

I think the non-windows platform Apple want people to migrate to is IOS.

And eventually i think people will gladly switch to it, on something like a tablet with some AR glasses.

BUT, in the mean-time until that is a more viable proposition, they need to stop screwing with the mac and making it less useful for doing the things an ipad can't do.
[doublepost=1533258877][/doublepost]

Exactly.

I'd say the reason for that is that anyone with an existing mac hasn't had much reason to bother upgrading as the hardware is not really an upgrade.

People without Macs have no baseline hardware to run, so it makes sense that most of their sales are from new users.

Existing users see no desirable hardware to upgrade to.

It could easily be 60% new users, but not really "new" users. Depends on how many parents bought their children a Mac for school or university. If it is their first machine - it would be technically a new user -- but they could also have been using mom/dad's mac at home already.