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Verizon note to self:

Before ripping competitors 3G network apart because of essentially 2 bad spots in the nation (New York & San Francisco), do some research to uncover the facts that our 3G network is so slow that AT&T's 2G network is almost as fast as it, and their 3G network is almost twice as fast, and that it can handle voice and data at the same time, where our 3G network can NOT!

You really asked for it Verizon! :p

this post has so much BS I don't know where to start
 
What? I do love my iPhone. And my iPods. Especially my 80GB 5.5G using a true line-out connected to either my surround sound system or an amp for my headphones.

My ONLY problem with the iPhone is AT&T. I would go to T-Mobile, but their data and texting costs end up being more than AT&T.



Exactly. I really do like my iPhone. And my iPods. Hell, I have 5 iPods after all. The only down side to the iPhone is AT&T. AT&T's network in southern California is worthless. Every other competing network out here is better, including T-Mobile.



iPhones work just fine on T-Mobile using EDGE, since AT&T and T-Mobile use different frequencies for 3G. The problem is that Apple and AT&T illegally block people from unlocking the newer iPhones. Unlocking is currently LEGAL under the DMCA and both Apple and AT&T stop it. The only real issue is that nobody has the legal funds to take on AT&T and Apple in this regard to get them to abide by the law.



What are you talking about? I had a regular "dumb phone" on Verizon before the original iPhone and I was regularly getting speeds of over 1Mbps. Going to an EDGE iPhone was a huge step backwards in browsing speeds.

AT&T has way more bad spots than Verizon. You can pretty much count ALL of southern California as one giant bad spot for AT&T. I can't tell you how annoying it is when I see someone with a Boost Mobile phone getting a signal and chatting away when myself and none of my iPhone/AT&T friends can get a signal.



The problem is that AT&T's 3G network is so bad that you're more often than not on EDGE without even realizing it.

Another problem with that argument is that Verizon no longer cripples phones and they do offer phones with WiFi.

AT&T's network is so bad that it basically puts the iPhone on the same level as the Driod, you have to be around WiFi to use voice and data at the same time.



The iPhone is why I left Verizon. AT&T's network is why I'll be switching back to Verizon.

I don't think you have much choice for Carrier even if there were unlocked iPhones in America.
 
Future of iPhone!

The ad is not actually a direct attack to Verizon. There's still a huge possibility that that iPhone exclusivity will be over sometime soon. How about the Intel commercials ring any bell? Apple is the master of this kind of advertising makes you believe that they don't have any interest on their competitors. Then they can still convince you once they move-in that they made the right decision. If you analyzed the ad it says and I quote: "Can your phone and network do that?". The answer is yes, the iPhone is as capable to handle the same task when it's out of AT&T's network. That's why iPhone supports roaming and iPhone works in other carriers abroad. Let's say Verizon is not capable right now, but in the future YES it's capable. If incase Apple will open to Verizon in the near future. They are going to demand to support every features what the iPhone is capable of. Verizon itself has already showed interest on the iPhone, that means they are willing to support every features that the iPhone demands. After all by the end of the day it's still a business.
 
Agreed

Verizon note to self:

Before ripping competitors 3G network apart because of essentially 2 bad spots in the nation (New York & San Francisco), do some research to uncover the facts that our 3G network is so slow that AT&T's 2G network is almost as fast as it, and their 3G network is almost twice as fast, and that it can handle voice and data at the same time, where our 3G network can NOT!

You really asked for it Verizon! :p

I agree. I see Verizon as a desperate company trying their best to stop the exodus to AT&T (and T-Mobile who will prob be next). Verizon has made mistake after mistake as far as their strategic decisions.

First, CDMA. This is a dead-end network and technology. They are stuck at 1.4Mb. Just wait until their network is FINALLY tested with a few more DROID phones. Their network will collapse faster than AT&T's. At least with AT&T, they have 3Mb now...and are upgrading to 7Mb this fall...and then followed up with 14Mb.

Second, Verizon ignored the product of the century (iPhone). What a bunch of bumbling goofs.

So, now Verizon is trying to scare their own customers about how bad and evil the AT&T Network is and at the same time, throwing rumors out there suggesting that one day soon, they will have the iPhone.

Sad....desperate....and lame.
 
Well, in the US, T-Mobile and AT&T can do simultaneous data and voice, but I'm sure you've picked that up from the preceding 100 posts pointing that out. Again, not an AT&T only feature.


You wanted them to respond with facts and you want them to fix their network, no?

Did you actually look at the page?

They explain what they're doing to fix their network, and every time they turn on 3G in a new city, they post it there.

Really grasping at straws, huh? What phone are we talking about here (3G doesn't work on T-Mo with the iPhone), and here we are talking about AT&Ts poor 3G coverage and you mention T-Mobile's!

I did look at the site, 90% of it's trash and I'm sure I'll well know when they turn the switch on. Even so, from everything I've read it's not even a matter of 3G because it typically drops fast enough to EDGE or worse..

I love my iPhone, I really do, but the phone is only as good as the network. I'm praying that the Verizon 4G iPhone but until then it's impossible for me to use my iPhone on a daily basis. If it's not slow EDGE, it's dropped calls, it's calls going directly to voice mail.

AT&T gets a lot of (deserving) heat but Apple signed their contract with them knowing full well how behind Cingular was and still is today. They made the decision to pretty much knowingly put a limp on their phone just to get a sweetheart deal and they receive no heat for it.
 
Only Apple could make the AT&T network seem good. I waiting years for 3G to come to my area, and I still have drop zones. When my friends and family have started using "I got AT&Ted" to explain a dropped call, they have a problem.

All this focus is a good thing if it makes AT&T work harder to improve the network, and I think they are going to be doing that.
 
I don't think Apple is taking AT&T's side. I think Apple is giving Verizon a "hint. hint" that if Verizon ever wants to sell the iPhone, they need to upgrade their network to support this feature.
 
Don't you have to be in an AT&T 3G service area for this feature to work anyhow? Looking at the AT&T 3G map it looks extremely spotty to me and millions of customers will never get this feature. They are going to be upset when their phone can't do what Apple says it is supposed to do.

AT&T doesn't think people who live in rural areas deserve the latest in technology. Verizon makes a great 3G network available to everyone, AT&T makes it available only in large cities and metro areas. Verizon cares about providing everyone with a great network. AT&T only cares about making the most money with the least amount of investment.

Now that is Funny!

They both care about making money..that is it.
 
Really grasping at straws, huh? What phone are we talking about here (3G doesn't work on T-Mo with the iPhone), and here we are talking about AT&Ts poor 3G coverage and you mention T-Mobile's!
I didn't say a thing about T-Mobile's coverage. You said "Then Apple responds with this, mentioning a pretty niche feature that only works on AT&Ts 3G network.". I was merely pointing out that this "niche feature" you're talking about has nothing to do specifically with the iPhone, and that the same feature is found on networks all over the freaking world. Just not Verizon's or Sprint's.

I did look at the site, 90% of it's trash and I'm sure I'll well know when they turn the switch on. Even so, from everything I've read it's not even a matter of 3G because it typically drops fast enough to EDGE or worse.
Again, you said you wanted AT&T to respond with facts and fix their network. I was simply giving you a link where you can read where AT&T is responging with facts and specifics (down to the rural town level) on exactly how they're fixing their network.

I love my iPhone, I really do, but the phone is only as good as the network. I'm praying that the Verizon 4G iPhone but until then it's impossible for me to use my iPhone on a daily basis. If it's not slow EDGE, it's dropped calls, it's calls going directly to voice mail.
So be pragmatic. Sell your iPhone, cancel your AT&T contract, and move to a carrier that works for you. You should have ZERO problems selling your iPhone for more than the $175 ETF, or whatever it is. Seriously, why stay on AT&T screaming about how horrible it is?
 
I don't think Apple is taking AT&T's side. I think Apple is giving Verizon a "hint. hint" that if Verizon ever wants to sell the iPhone, they need to upgrade their network to support this feature.

I would expect that Apple knows a lot about Verizon's 4G network that isn't public information.

Hmmm... Rumours of AT&T's lockin disappearing next summer. Firm plans of Verizon's 4G rollout next summer.

Coincidence?
 
A fair conclusion, at least in regards to GPS. (Nothing else was ever locked on VZW smartphones before.)
Mm. I'm left thinking about sufferers in silence. What it smells like to me... I may be wrong... is that if Verizon didn't like a particular device, they had no reason to enable it on their CDMA network AT ALL. This is different from GSM entirely. They don't have to lock down features if they simply didn't allow the device on their network at all. Whereas GSM phones need to be "unlocked", there WAS no "unlocking" a Verizon phone. If they didn't activate your device on their network, you simply didn't get on (smartphone or no smartphone).

But, here's the WEIRD thing. So, here is the Gizmodo article stepping through Verizon's new "openness".

March 20th, 2008
http://gizmodo.com/369961/verizons-open+door-policy-what-it-actually-means
1) Can I move my old Sprint or Helio phone—or get really crazy and bring a Korean CDMA phone—over to Verizon Wireless?
Sure, as long as they run on the same CDMA frequencies as Verizon's network—800 and 1900MHz, are the North American CDMA bands. After Verizon certifies a submitted model of handset or PDA, all you'll have to do is register it on Verizon's website (a process similar to iPhone registration). So porting your beloved Ocean or Mogul should be no problem.
Where is this website? Why haven't Pre owners who paid to cancel enjoying the benefits of being on Verizon before they are officially launched on the network? Why would Verizon deny them access with their device?

Then, this Wired article implies that Verizon is somewhat backing away from this (Sept 2009):
http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/09/verizon-smartphones/
Also, while Verizon had promised an “any apps, any device” open-network program in 2007, it has reworked the idea to include just non-consumer devices such as routers, not consumer handsets. Instead, the company has focused on creating an app store for developers.

GigaOM had chimed in (Sept 2009):
http://gigaom.com/2009/09/22/verizon-talks-the-openness-talk-doesnt-walk-the-openness-walk/
Verizon Wireless, nearly two years after saying it would offer its network to “any apps, any device,” is moving toward openness with all the haste of a 12-year-old headed to the dentist. The company said today it’s certified fewer than five dozen devices for its 3G network, most of which are “specialized M2M units” — in other words, not the kind of thing you’re going to pick up at Best Buy. The carrier also announced the imminent launch of Vcast Apps, an initiative designed to allow developers to distribute their wares to Verizon’s customers.
That’s true, of course. But just as Verizon should be praised for its rock-solid network, criticism that it refuses to play nice with others in the space is also valid. The carrier has decided not to install RIM’s BlackBerry App World or Microsoft’s Windows Mobile Marketplace on its phones, opting instead to deploy it own app store and forcing consumers to download the platform. And Verizon is only now beginning to embrace Wi-Fi after watching competing carriers leverage the technology to ease network congestion and fuel uptake.
--Yet, certain people in this forum have taken exception to this notion that Verizon was planning to make its OWN VCast App Store the standard on all of its devices. With the release of the Droid, complete with its installed "Android Marketplace" and anecdotal reports about having Blackberry's App World installed on new handsets... I'm left wondering what the impending launch of the VCast App Store will actually mean.

http://developer.verizon.com/forum/posts/list/389.page

--Cause its clearly COMING. If Verizon gets the iPhone next year, will Apple be the exception? I can still see NO circumstance where Apple would allow Verizon to control the App purchase/install process. I can only muse about a highly controversial "exclusion" that will be granted to Apple.

Looking forward to the first phone to be certified (hopefully soon) under that policy, the Saygus Android phone with video calling, from a startup in Utah.
Mm. But going back to Gizmodo's article, where they got very granular with their questioning... consumers were supposed to be able to approve their OWN devices. Waiting for manufacturers to create approval relationships with Verizon has been the existing model for a while.

I'm sensing some smoke and mirrors in all this on Verizon's part (as well as a reticence or ADHD on the part of the tech community not to follow Verizon's stated goals with any type of consistency or attention to detail).

I wish I wasn't. Ironically, the choice between an iPhone and a Verizon device seems like a choice between two straight jackets. Both companies are control freaks.

I'm still holding out a huge belly-laugh in the event that iPhone 2010 touts compatibility with all major U.S. carriers BUT Verizon. It would almost seem spiteful and awkward, but I can still see negotiations break down over how much Verizon will let Apple do.

~ CB
 
BTW, I have Verizon and get dropped calls and terrible audio quality...

BTW, I have Verizon and get dropped calls and terrible audio quality...

...but only when my manager calls me from his Iphone. I seldom have any unexplained drops or quality problems otherwise.

(an "explained" drop would be like when CalTrain goes into the tunnel under San Bruno Mountain - and everything's dead until you see sunlight on the other side.)
 
I would expect that Apple knows a lot about Verizon's 4G network that isn't public information.
Hmmm... Rumours of AT&T's lockin disappearing next summer. Firm plans of Verizon's 4G rollout next summer.
Coincidence?
Yup. But not entirely irrelevant. Just mostly.
BTW, I have Verizon and get dropped calls and terrible audio quality...
...but only when my manager calls me from his Iphone. I seldom have any unexplained drops or quality problems otherwise.
Hilarious. :D

~ CB
 
BTW, I have Verizon and get dropped calls and terrible audio quality...

...but only when my manager calls me from his Iphone.

I'm shocked and amazed. :rolleyes:

It is interesting to note that the boss has the iPhone while the peon has the Windows Mobile device. Guess the smart ones do float to the top. :)

Back to the topic at hand: I love how in this thread there is somehow a good guy vs. bad guy debate. Not so. AT&T and Verizon are both jerks. AT&T is the jerk that sells the iPhone, Verizon is the jerk that doesn't.
 
It would almost seem spiteful and awkward, but I can still see negotiations break down over how much Verizon will let Apple do.

This is almost certainly exactly why the iPhone appeared on AT&T in 2007 and not on Verizon. I can see this control issue being a never-ending stalemate.
 
ooooooo sick burn on verizon!

still don't mean they will stay exclusive... but definitely a plus for at&t if inclusivity happens
 
This is not about Apple "getting the back" of their partner. This is solely about Apple trying to counter the potential damage to iPhone sales going into the Christmas season. Supporting At&t is the ancillary benefit of Apple supporting their own product.

You've never worked for a Steve Jobs run company I see.
 
No ad will change the FACT that At&T is the worst. Period.

Sorry, but the battle for POS service includes Customer Service and it's a toss-up between Verizon and T-Mobile--two of the biggest ****** corporations in getting fraudulent charges removed from your account.

Verizon is currently in the lead with it's moronic southern crackpot staff who asks you five times your social security number, your address and whether you authorize the person sitting next to you to access your account. Then they send out a notification that they had the f'n conversation. But during the conversation they insist upon updating your pass code.

VZ drops at least 5 times a day in the Pacific Northwest area of Spokane WA.

AT&T does the same. They are a wash in this area.

The Customer Service is where AT&T wins. The iPhone is where AT&T wins tenfold.
 
Why haven't Pre owners who paid to cancel enjoying the benefits of being on Verizon before they are officially launched on the network?

That would be cool, wouldn't it?

But as pointed out in the Gizmodo article, it's "after Verizon certifies a submitted model of handset or PDA, all you'll have to do is register it on Verizon's website."

That's not the same thing as saying that Verizon would seek out competing phones and certify them. Especially since they plan to sell the same model.

Perhaps someone could submit the Sprint Pre version for certification, but my guess is there's an expense involved. Testing isn't cheap. Still, it's sometimes tempting to try to come up with a donation-supported group to submits such phones.
 
Why would you say or think that?

Just because Apple returned fire with a friendly jab at Verizon and the Droid and Google OS?!

Look at all the jabs Apple gave MS and we still have Office for Mac.

You think Verizon or Apple would ever look 90 million customers in the face and say no sale to you!


Yeah I do, and Apple did in 2007 when they told Verizion to take a hike, and took the business to AT&T who was willing to share the business risk which became a very good success.
 
Wow, this a feature I HAVE TO HAVE!!!! </sarcasm>

Come on... if all you can tout about your network is being able to talk and surf at the same time (AT&T also say theirs is faster, and there are some stats that prove it, but I doubt highly that's true in the less-crowded cities), then that's pretty much sad. I'd much rather be able to talk without getting disconnected and surf the web without losing signal.

Silly commercial... apparently the Verizon commercials are becoming a success -- AT&T ... AND APPLE ... are now spooked. With all the negative publicity of AT&T, it's a wonder Apple still wants to even remotely be associated with the name...

Get a clue. Most would think it's pretty damn important to be able to receive a phone call while using the same phone for the data (e.g. streaming music, checking email etc.) --- do you want just an internet device? or just a phone? I'd like to have both, and I don't want to hear people bitching because they goto voicemail every time they call me due to the fact I'm using my device for data all day long (no matter what that is). It's not just being able to use it for both at the same time, its also being able to receive a call while using it w/o having to "not use it" afraid of blocking all the incoming calls. It's not that hard to figure out if you remove the Verizon cool-aid from your diet.
 
Apple should go with Sprint next. Just to completely bury Palm. :p They're not GSM, though, as far as I know.
 
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